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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 9:49:53 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Middlelength: Everyone who owns a registered toy is going to support this? I do and I do. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 9:56:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: buck19delta]
[#2]
ATF really fucked up with braced / sbr rifles becoming a thing, it’s insane they ever allowed such a thing as it so strongly conflicted with their other existing rules, would be like them allowing cash n carry , unregulated, untaxed oil filter suppressor kits while still requiring traditional “ real suppressors “ / factory suppressors still require a long wait, finger prints, paperwork and $200 tax stamp.
should be easy to get sbr rifles delisted from being NFA items,and while we’re using common sense ( same for suppressors ) in Europe they are easy to get and almost mandatory for shooting to keep from upsetting people with gunfire. That said it requires a court to rule on actual facts and not their own feelings, which is getting more and more rare these days. Suppressors should be legal / over the counter cash and carry items.. Instant response is emotional retardation. OMG HIT MEN / people will be murdering everyone with them and so quiet know one will know it’s happening and won’t hear the shooting to be able to run away ! OMG, OMG, OMG ! 
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 10:10:18 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dagoth-Ur: I remember the screenshots from Hollis v Holder(later Lynch) from those NFA forum fuckers. “No everyone should have them!” “Muh investment!”, they can eat Taco Bell. Yuuuuup there’s a big difference between guys who own a $35,000 M16 lower vs a $350,000 or hell even $3,500,000 collection. One is a toy while the other is an investment. One guy says “fuck yeah I can buy more!” while the other, well, see your quote. I wish I still had those screenshots and a few from NFAGs, had them a few phones back specifically for when guys would say “nobody like that actually exists” |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 10:17:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: BerettaGuy]
[#4]
Won’t go anywhere. Gorsuch just stated that he is for machine gun bans/restrictions, and also stated that he is fine with the restrictions in the 1934 NFA and 1968 GCA during his confirmation hearings (Kavanaugh said the same thing regarding both laws during his hearing as well). Kavanaugh likes to rule based on precedent and not on Founder’s intent. And Barrett sided with the liberals on homemade guns late last year. We only have Thomas on our side and he’s one guy.
The NFA is not going away and ATF getting more efficient with registration due to suppressor sales will just make them more efficient when semi-auto rifle caliber handguns (AR pistols, etc.) and semi auto military styled rifles get classified as NFA items. I wish them the best with this case but I’ve been in the 2A rights game for 40 years - our ball-less “conservative” leadership will never make it or let it happen. And those of you who think Trump is on your side on this are really out there. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 10:20:32 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sti_cazzi: Miranda got us the Miranda rights. Look that dude up.  Attached File |
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NJ, USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 10:36:12 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bandanabandit1: I’ve been saying this for years, the days of Hughes’ and the NFA ARE numbered…. Ain’t never gonna happen And if it does count on half the states to have state level bans that the Stasi will happily enforce. And they won’t GAF what the feds say We are post Rule of law |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 10:50:53 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jambalaya: Why does it always have to be a shitbag? This is why Parker v. D.C. was later renamed to D.C. v. Heller. Of the 6 plaintiffs in Parker v. D.C., only Heller had standing because only he had applied for a permit and was denied. Heller did this at the behest of his friend Dane vonBreichenruchardt (deceased). Dane had graduated Georgetown School of Law just so he could know how to best challenge gun laws. He refused to take the BAR exam so that he could never be "disbarred." |
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USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 11:17:47 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Thrasymachus: A guy with a felony for attempted murder and manslaughter tried to sell a PPSh-41 to the ATF, and is now appealing to the most liberal circuit in the US. So this is going to go nowhere. I disagree. While the appellant may be horrible person, the merits of his legal argument are what is at issue, just as in the Rahimi case. It seems to me that the District Court made several errors in its decision. I think this case has the potential to go to the Supreme Court, and I believe it could get cert. I’d rather see a case that has a defendant charged only with violating 922(o) who is otherwise an upstanding citizen, and hopefully such a case comes along, but this case is viable. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 11:23:18 AM EDT
[#9]
Getting rid of machine gun restrictions is a psyop by the government in order to get us to shoot up our ammo forts
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USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 11:23:37 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By UV18: Piss poor cases create piss poor case law. This guy is a piss poor candidate. It isn’t a piss poor case. It’s a clear constitutional challenge with a sound argument appealing an erroneous District Court decision. The appellant is a POS, but the law doesn’t change based on how likable he is. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 11:25:00 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Master_Blaster: Why you wanna levy a tax on my rights? There should not be an NFA. The only way for a man to eat an elephant is one bite at a time. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 11:31:40 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jmo371: Miller essentially said MG's and other NFA things are outside the purview of the 2a Miller determined that the Second Amendment protection afforded to a particular weapon is based on it having “a reasonable relation to the performance and efficiency of a well regulated militia”. While Mr. Miller’s sawed off shotgun was (incorrectly) determined not to meet that test, and his conviction was therefore upheld, I think we can all agree that a machine gun does. Additionally, it seems that private machine gun ownership figures satisfy the “in common use” test from Caetano. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 11:59:23 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FreefallRet: New MGs should be |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 12:02:42 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FreefallRet: New MGs should be Fixed for you 
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Posted: 5/4/2024 12:42:08 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By buck19delta: ATF really fucked up with braced / sbr rifles becoming a thing, it’s insane they ever allowed such a thing as it so strongly conflicted with their other existing rules, would be like them allowing cash n carry , unregulated, untaxed oil filter suppressor kits while still requiring traditional “ real suppressors “ / factory suppressors still require a long wait, finger prints, paperwork and $200 tax stamp. should be easy to get sbr rifles delisted from being NFA items,and while we’re using common sense ( same for suppressors ) in Europe they are easy to get and almost mandatory for shooting to keep from upsetting people with gunfire. That said it requires a court to rule on actual facts and not their own feelings, which is getting more and more rare these days. Suppressors should be legal / over the counter cash and carry items.. Instant response is emotional retardation. OMG HIT MEN / people will be murdering everyone with them and so quiet know one will know it’s happening and won’t hear the shooting to be able to run away ! OMG, OMG, OMG ! Remember after the Vegas shooting. Hillary went on TV and said something to the effect of “now just imagine if LEO couldn’t hear where the shots came from” |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 12:49:33 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By UV18: Piss poor cases create piss poor case law. This guy is a piss poor candidate. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By UV18: Originally Posted By Thrasymachus: A guy with a felony for attempted murder and manslaughter tried to sell a PPSh-41 to the ATF, and is now appealing to the most liberal circuit in the US. So this is going to go nowhere. Piss poor cases create piss poor case law. This guy is a piss poor candidate. I agree. We need a case that John Q Public says “...yeah that’s a good point...why not?” |
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WY, USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 2:02:10 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jaqufrost: Generally the ATF doesn't prosecute most machinegun cases. They confiscate the firearm and walk away most of the time. The ones who do get prosecuted normally have several issues they're being prosecuted for. You can see the ATF confiscation lists posted each month and most the time there are no correlating prosecutions. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jaqufrost: Originally Posted By Jambalaya: Why does it always have to be a shitbag? The government isn't going to let this shitbag have a win. The NY guy with the 3D printers is the kind of case we want. Law abiding in every other way, minority, has a job, not a shitbag. You can see the ATF confiscation lists posted each month and most the time there are no correlating prosecutions. Have a link ? I find that hard to believe. I bet a lot of those are voluntary turn ins or FFL issues, I doubt they regularly find and ignore illegal MGs. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 2:06:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: NachoDip]
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jaqufrost: Hollis from Hollis V Holder is a registered machinegun owner who believes machineguns are constitutionally protected and should be available to the masses. My experience with most NFA owners is they think machineguns should be legal and available. I have met a few that are very openly in agreement. They have money. They would smile at the value of their guns going down because they know their collection would explode up in size overnight. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 2:46:21 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wyomingnick: Have a link ? I find that hard to believe. I bet a lot of those are voluntary turn ins or FFL issues, I doubt they regularly find and ignore illegal MGs. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wyomingnick: Originally Posted By jaqufrost: Originally Posted By Jambalaya: Why does it always have to be a shitbag? The government isn't going to let this shitbag have a win. The NY guy with the 3D printers is the kind of case we want. Law abiding in every other way, minority, has a job, not a shitbag. You can see the ATF confiscation lists posted each month and most the time there are no correlating prosecutions. Have a link ? I find that hard to believe. I bet a lot of those are voluntary turn ins or FFL issues, I doubt they regularly find and ignore illegal MGs. You are under the false assumption the totally centralized, nationalized government works for you. I would be less surprised. I would bet the ATF invents false charges against innocent people while ignoring hardened criminals with actual illegal guns. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 3:03:30 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wyomingnick: Have a link ? I find that hard to believe. I bet a lot of those are voluntary turn ins or FFL issues, I doubt they regularly find and ignore illegal MGs. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 11:16:43 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jambalaya: Why does it always have to be a shitbag? The government isn't going to let this shitbag have a win. The NY guy with the 3D printers is the kind of case we want. Law abiding in every other way, minority, has a job, not a shitbag. Miranda v. Arizona begs to differ sir. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 11:18:29 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jaqufrost: Hollis from Hollis V Holder is a registered machinegun owner who believes machineguns are constitutionally protected and should be available to the masses. My experience with most NFA owners is they think machineguns should be legal and available. I know. I just said I saw some screen shots of other people on other forums were upset about Muh investment might take a hit. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 11:23:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: NachoDip]
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dagoth-Ur: I know. I just said I saw some screen shots of other people on other forums were upset about Muh investment might take a hit. Fuck them. This is about fighting to fix this infringement. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 11:34:21 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ManiacRat: The NFA isn't going anywhere. If for no other reason the money. $200 is nothing nowadays, most of us are and have paid it many times over playing their game. They've made millions off of us. I saw a video last night that there is 2.6millon registered suppressors in the US. That's 520mil in taxes. Granted, it's a government with a budget in the trillions. But, they aren't giving up that cash cow. They will speed the process so we are placated and keep taking our money. How much more would they make in a sales tax at the point of sale? If Muh income is the issue they claim to want to keep it (it’s not, it’s control) why do they make it so complicated and time consuming to pay? How much more money do they make on liquor? Again, it’s not about money, it’s about keeping the ants in check.  4-06-09 - A Bug's Life |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 11:34:30 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dagoth-Ur: Miranda v. Arizona begs to differ sir. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dagoth-Ur: Originally Posted By Jambalaya: Why does it always have to be a shitbag? The government isn't going to let this shitbag have a win. The NY guy with the 3D printers is the kind of case we want. Law abiding in every other way, minority, has a job, not a shitbag. Miranda v. Arizona begs to differ sir. You think one outlier that went to a court that was considered one of the most liberal in the court's history negates the fact that the defendant in this case is not at all sympathetic? The Robert's court has been slow to move on gun cases, and has been loathe to make sweeping moves after Heller and McDonald. McDonald was decoded in 2010, and it was not until Bruen that we saw any other significant movement. Expecting SCOTUS to take up this case is immensely naive. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 11:36:06 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Master_Blaster: Why you wanna levy a tax on my rights? There should not be an NFA. Ironically if we still had a poll tax we would be a much freer country. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 11:39:03 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By buck19delta: ATF really fucked up with braced / sbr rifles becoming a thing, it’s insane they ever allowed such a thing as it so strongly conflicted with their other existing rules, would be like them allowing cash n carry , unregulated, untaxed oil filter suppressor kits while still requiring traditional “ real suppressors “ / factory suppressors still require a long wait, finger prints, paperwork and $200 tax stamp. should be easy to get sbr rifles delisted from being NFA items,and while we’re using common sense ( same for suppressors ) in Europe they are easy to get and almost mandatory for shooting to keep from upsetting people with gunfire. That said it requires a court to rule on actual facts and not their own feelings, which is getting more and more rare these days. Suppressors should be legal / over the counter cash and carry items.. Instant response is emotional retardation. OMG HIT MEN / people will be murdering everyone with them and so quiet know one will know it’s happening and won’t hear the shooting to be able to run away ! OMG, OMG, OMG ! Meanwhile, crossbows, air rifles, poisons are all totally legal, over the course, cash and carry, and make even less or no noise at all. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 11:39:39 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Raider14: Yuuuuup there’s a big difference between guys who own a $35,000 M16 lower vs a $350,000 or hell even $3,500,000 collection. One is a toy while the other is an investment. One guy says “fuck yeah I can buy more!” while the other, well, see your quote. I wish I still had those screenshots and a few from NFAGs, had them a few phones back specifically for when guys would say “nobody like that actually exists” You can in the archive of the thread. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 11:42:00 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BerettaGuy: Won’t go anywhere. Gorsuch just stated that he is for machine gun bans/restrictions, and also stated that he is fine with the restrictions in the 1934 NFA and 1968 GCA during his confirmation hearings (Kavanaugh said the same thing regarding both laws during his hearing as well). Kavanaugh likes to rule based on precedent and not on Founder’s intent. And Barrett sided with the liberals on homemade guns late last year. We only have Thomas on our side and he’s one guy. The NFA is not going away and ATF getting more efficient with registration due to suppressor sales will just make them more efficient when semi-auto rifle caliber handguns (AR pistols, etc.) and semi auto military styled rifles get classified as NFA items. I wish them the best with this case but I’ve been in the 2A rights game for 40 years - our ball-less “conservative” leadership will never make it or let it happen. And those of you who think Trump is on your side on this are really out there. Worthless sacks of shit, all of them. Makes the perfect that conservativism is a dead end failure. Kind of why I throw it overboard years ago and adopted Nationalism. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 11:43:42 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Burtg: Ain’t never gonna happen And if it does count on half the states to have state level bans that the Stasi will happily enforce. And they won’t GAF what the feds say We are post Rule of law Glock switch’s are illegal…Wow, it’s almost like the law/LEO doesn’t mean shit anymore. At this point just set up our own states/counties and enforce Constitutional law and leave the slaves on their plantations. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 11:50:07 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By denverdan: Remember after the Vegas shooting. Hillary went on TV and said something to the effect of “now just imagine if LEO couldn’t hear where the shots came from” Hilary is a moron. Kind of weird how that shooting happened the day before the SHAR3 act was about to be called for a vote…And how the HPA was scheduled to be heard the day just after the congressional baseball game was shut up by a Bernie bro? Anyone else noticing a trend here? |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 11:55:19 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Deerhurst: I own a registered toy. I would buy 10 more at a sane cost when the NFA falls and be thrilled the value of my toy fell with it just because of what it means. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Deerhurst: Originally Posted By Middlelength: Everyone who owns a registered toy is going to support this? Unlikely. At the same time, Glock switches everywhere these days... It does feel like you should be able to pay the $200 and add things to the registration list. I own a registered toy. I would buy 10 more at a sane cost when the NFA falls and be thrilled the value of my toy fell with it just because of what it means. Same.... |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 11:56:53 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Thrasymachus: You think one outlier that went to a court that was considered one of the most liberal in the court's history negates the fact that the defendant in this case is not at all sympathetic? The Robert's court has been slow to move on gun cases, and has been loathe to make sweeping moves after Heller and McDonald. McDonald was decoded in 2010, and it was not until Bruen that we saw any other significant movement. Expecting SCOTUS to take up this case is immensely naive. Can we all agree that Roberts sucks ass? Another hold over from Bush Jr that still fucks us over. He is 69, any idea how long he will burden us with his presence? Would not surprise me if he retires under the Puppet merely to uphold his faith in the institution rather rather then admit how wrong he is. We need our own Warren Court. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 11:57:48 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ManiacRat: The NFA isn't going anywhere. If for no other reason the money. $200 is nothing nowadays, most of us are and have paid it many times over playing their game. They've made millions off of us. I saw a video last night that there is 2.6millon registered suppressors in the US. That's 520mil in taxes. Granted, it's a government with a budget in the trillions. But, they aren't giving up that cash cow. They will speed the process so we are placated and keep taking our money. Settling some money in them in a bill that reduces restrictions would be the easy part. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/5/2024 12:03:08 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dagoth-Ur: Can we all agree that Roberts sucks ass? Another hold over from Bush Jr that still fucks us over. He is 69, any idea how long he will burden us with his presence? Would not surprise me if he retires under the Puppet merely to uphold his faith in the institution rather rather then admit how wrong he is. We need our own Warren Court. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dagoth-Ur: Originally Posted By Thrasymachus: You think one outlier that went to a court that was considered one of the most liberal in the court's history negates the fact that the defendant in this case is not at all sympathetic? The Robert's court has been slow to move on gun cases, and has been loathe to make sweeping moves after Heller and McDonald. McDonald was decoded in 2010, and it was not until Bruen that we saw any other significant movement. Expecting SCOTUS to take up this case is immensely naive. Can we all agree that Roberts sucks ass? Another hold over from Bush Jr that still fucks us over. He is 69, any idea how long he will burden us with his presence? Would not surprise me if he retires under the Puppet merely to uphold his faith in the institution rather rather then admit how wrong he is. We need our own Warren Court. Ensuring the independence of the court is a good thing. As is caring about the appearance of neutrality of the court. Court packing is a very real threat. |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 5/5/2024 12:06:51 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ExFed1811: That's all it would take. A ruling that banning new registrations was unconstitutional. It's like not buying Microsoft at $2 a share, but pre-86, a select fire gun was about the same price as a semi-auto. It was the $200 tax that turned a $400 gun into a $600 gun. A pawn shop guy down here saw the future and bought a hundred sears and registered them right at the last minute and made some serious bank in the years since. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ExFed1811: Originally Posted By FreefallRet: New MGs should be allowed to be added to the NFA. That's all it would take. A ruling that banning new registrations was unconstitutional. It's like not buying Microsoft at $2 a share, but pre-86, a select fire gun was about the same price as a semi-auto. It was the $200 tax that turned a $400 gun into a $600 gun. A pawn shop guy down here saw the future and bought a hundred sears and registered them right at the last minute and made some serious bank in the years since. The Hughes Amendment didn't ban "new registrations" ..... it actually outlawed civilian possession of MG's ....but exempted the possession and sale/transfer of those registered in the NFRTR prior to the May '86 cutoff New MG's are added to the registry every day ..... but you can't own one of them |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 12:14:55 AM EDT
[#37]
Why would someone waste time putting that decision through the 9th circuit? They will fuck you over every step of the way.
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/5/2024 12:21:29 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Thrasymachus: Ensuring the independence of the court is a good thing. As is caring about the appearance of neutrality of the court. Court packing is a very real threat. If you believe the court is independent I have bench front property in Betty for sale that I will give you a great deal on. Again, the court is not neutral, that idea just proves how reality detached Conservativism has become. “No this apparatus of that state won’t become political because…”…How did that work out again? Meanwhile the left openly uses lawfare and wins. Yeah it is a threat, so why not do it because our enemies will gladly do so. Do unto others BEFORE they can do unto to you rigs truer now then before. What’s the point of having power if you don’t use it to advance your goals, agenda, etc? Allowing bad laws to stand and hiding behind Stare decisis is cowardice. But then again Roberts is an Institutionalist, he refuses to see the rot as that would imply he himself failed in his duties. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/5/2024 12:22:29 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RedFox1911: Why would someone waste time putting that decision through the 9th circuit? They will fuck you over every step of the way. They are reversed by the SCOTUS something like 80% of the time. |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 12:24:27 AM EDT
[#40]
I’m not holding my breath. Too many old Reaganites who still think we need to compromise running around even on our side.
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OK, USA
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Posted: 5/5/2024 12:42:50 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FreefallRet: New MGs should be allowed to be added to the NFA. NFA is unconstitutional, but that would at least be a step in the right direction. I've never understood how the government could demand you pay a tax to legally possess something, but then refuse to accept said tax. |
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OK, USA
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Posted: 5/5/2024 12:46:46 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jambalaya: Why does it always have to be a shitbag? The government isn't going to let this shitbag have a win. The NY guy with the 3D printers is the kind of case we want. Law abiding in every other way, minority, has a job, not a shitbag. Probably has to do with standing. I know the suppressor case out of Texas had to overcome some hurdles in relation to standing. The ATF basically argued the plaintiffs had no standing because they hadn't manufactured the suppressors, been arrested, and charged. Law abiding citizens are just that. Lots of the big case law that's been made was due to some shitbird breaking the law, getting caught, and filing suit. @Jambalaya |
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OK, USA
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Posted: 5/5/2024 12:47:39 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sti_cazzi: Miranda got us the Miranda rights. Look that dude up. That was the first shitbird that came to mind. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/5/2024 1:05:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Thrasymachus]
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dagoth-Ur: If you believe the court is independent I have bench front property in Betty for sale that I will give you a great deal on. Again, the court is not neutral, that idea just proves how reality detached Conservativism has become. “No this apparatus of that state won’t become political because…”…How did that work out again? Meanwhile the left openly uses lawfare and wins. Yeah it is a threat, so why not do it because our enemies will gladly do so. Do unto others BEFORE they can do unto to you rigs truer now then before. What’s the point of having power if you don’t use it to advance your goals, agenda, etc? Allowing bad laws to stand and hiding behind Stare decisis is cowardice. But then again Roberts is an Institutionalist, he refuses to see the rot as that would imply he himself failed in his duties. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dagoth-Ur: Originally Posted By Thrasymachus: Ensuring the independence of the court is a good thing. As is caring about the appearance of neutrality of the court. Court packing is a very real threat. If you believe the court is independent I have bench front property in Betty for sale that I will give you a great deal on. Again, the court is not neutral, that idea just proves how reality detached Conservativism has become. “No this apparatus of that state won’t become political because…”…How did that work out again? Meanwhile the left openly uses lawfare and wins. Yeah it is a threat, so why not do it because our enemies will gladly do so. Do unto others BEFORE they can do unto to you rigs truer now then before. What’s the point of having power if you don’t use it to advance your goals, agenda, etc? Allowing bad laws to stand and hiding behind Stare decisis is cowardice. But then again Roberts is an Institutionalist, he refuses to see the rot as that would imply he himself failed in his duties. In another thread you said that legislation was a blatant lie and wouldn't be adhered to, so what makes you think the courts decision would be adhered to? You contradict yourself constantly. If one were to take on the NFA one should be selective about the cases they bring to the courts, what circuit they bring the case to, and should work to undo lower hanging fruit like AWBs first. Using a felon who was in possession of meth when arrested and bringing that case in front of the most liberal circuit is retarded. Beating your chest with hyperbole doesn't make the case anymore prudent. Your view of the courts is contradictory, naive, and detached from reality. Perhaps you should heed Machiavelli's advice: "All courses of action are risky, so prudence is not in avoiding danger (it's impossible), but calculating risk and acting decisively. Make mistakes of ambition and not mistakes of sloth. Develop the strength to do bold things, not the strength to suffer." |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 5/5/2024 1:08:41 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FreefallRet: New MGs should be allowed to be added to the NFA. You're doing it wrong. The NFA is a violation of the constitution as is Hughes. Neither should exist. "Shall not be infringed" H |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 1:12:03 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WhiskersTheCat: You are under the false assumption the totally centralized, nationalized government works for you. I would be less surprised. I would bet the ATF invents false charges against innocent people while ignoring hardened criminals with actual illegal guns. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WhiskersTheCat: Originally Posted By wyomingnick: Originally Posted By jaqufrost: Originally Posted By Jambalaya: Why does it always have to be a shitbag? The government isn't going to let this shitbag have a win. The NY guy with the 3D printers is the kind of case we want. Law abiding in every other way, minority, has a job, not a shitbag. You can see the ATF confiscation lists posted each month and most the time there are no correlating prosecutions. Have a link ? I find that hard to believe. I bet a lot of those are voluntary turn ins or FFL issues, I doubt they regularly find and ignore illegal MGs. You are under the false assumption the totally centralized, nationalized government works for you. I would be less surprised. I would bet the ATF invents false charges against innocent people while ignoring hardened criminals with actual illegal guns. I don't have any such idea the federal government works for me. You have a point with ignoring gangbangers though I doubt they ever get involved in many of those cases in the first place. I guess local LE could send them the guns which would explain why they have them. |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 1:48:41 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By buck19delta: ATF really fucked up with braced / sbr rifles becoming a thing, it's insane they ever allowed such a thing as it so strongly conflicted with their other existing rules, would be like them allowing cash n carry , unregulated, untaxed oil filter suppressor kits while still requiring traditional " real suppressors " / factory suppressors still require a long wait, finger prints, paperwork and $200 tax stamp. should be easy to get sbr rifles delisted from being NFA items,and while we're using common sense ( same for suppressors ) in Europe they are easy to get and almost mandatory for shooting to keep from upsetting people with gunfire. That said it requires a court to rule on actual facts and not their own feelings, which is getting more and more rare these days. Suppressors should be legal / over the counter cash and carry items.. Instant response is emotional retardation. OMG HIT MEN / people will be murdering everyone with them and so quiet know one will know it's happening and won't hear the shooting to be able to run away ! OMG, OMG, OMG ! You need only look at the fact that anyone undeterred by laws against murder will be undeterred by laws against unregistered NFA. And yet, despite their widespread lawful use, and extreme ease of manufacture, suppressors are almost never used in crimes, unless you count things like potatoes and pillows. Thanks to the Chinese glock switches, machine guns are. |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 3:07:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Master_Blaster]
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jmo371: Miller essentially said MG's and other NFA things are outside the purview of the 2a Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jmo371: Originally Posted By Master_Blaster: Why you wanna levy a tax on my rights? There should not be an NFA. Miller essentially said MG's and other NFA things are outside the purview of the 2a Once upon a time, certain courts said a black man's vote was worth 2/3 of a white man's vote. Anytime the court says anything you should ask "why?" And you know what? The answer is because they want it that way. Originally Posted By BerettaGuy: Won’t go anywhere. Gorsuch just stated that he is for machine gun bans/restrictions, and also stated that he is fine with the restrictions in the 1934 NFA and 1968 GCA during his confirmation hearings (Kavanaugh said the same thing regarding both laws during his hearing as well). Kavanaugh likes to rule based on precedent and not on Founder’s intent. And Barrett sided with the liberals on homemade guns late last year. We only have Thomas on our side and he’s one guy. The NFA is not going away and ATF getting more efficient with registration due to suppressor sales will just make them more efficient when semi-auto rifle caliber handguns (AR pistols, etc.) and semi auto military styled rifles get classified as NFA items. I wish them the best with this case but I’ve been in the 2A rights game for 40 years - our ball-less “conservative” leadership will never make it or let it happen. And those of you who think Trump is on your side on this are really out there. True. |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 4:48:09 AM EDT
[#49]
Even if this case got some traction and voided the entire NFA there is a 100% chance it would be reinstated (and probably made much worse) by congress within hours and signed by Mr. Poopy Pants himself the next day.
1/2 to 2/3 of Republicans would vote for it and the entire democrat party would vote for it. That's just the state of affairs currently. |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 12:02:59 PM EDT
[#50]
My buddy says:
"Farmer vs Higgins ( 1990 ) ended any chance of nullifying 922o." |
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