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AK, USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 8:07:26 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Echd: I feel confident that 3 mil is pie in the sky but that article definitely has some problems unless Colorado neurosurgeons are working for 60k. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Echd: Originally Posted By sorionc: https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/pay-salary/neuro-surgeon-salary does not seem average. I feel confident that 3 mil is pie in the sky but that article definitely has some problems unless Colorado neurosurgeons are working for 60k. I would be comfortable saying that average total compensation for board certified neurosurgeons with 5+ years of surgical experience is likely 10x what that article says. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 8:07:39 PM EDT
[#2]
I've been to several docs over the years that are part owners in the X-ray, MRI or heart scan facility they want you to use so I assume they get a pretty good income from that without even being there. Some told me that up front. I don't really care that much as long as the techs running the machines know what they are doing.
My cancer doc and his practice billed my insurance for 250K for a procedure I had done 10 years ago. I've no clue what they actually received. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 8:10:43 PM EDT
[#3]
For the most part, things like XOJet have filled the niche.
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USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 8:13:44 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Middlelength: I would be comfortable saying that average total compensation for board certified neurosurgeons with 5+ years of surgical experience is likely 10x what that article says. I'm not a board certified neurosurgeon but I can't find anything at all supporting that their average salary is in the 2.5 million range. Most articles and listings seem to be around 400-600k. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 8:31:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dp226]
[#5]
3 doctors I know.
Gastroenterologists who did my colonoscopy drives a 2 year old +- McLaren as a daily driver. Neurologist I see on occasion owns and flys a Cessna Citation X Radioligist I know who owns a large practice owns a Beechcraft King Air (not sure which), a Gulfstream IV and a Bell JetRanger Helicopter of some ilk. Apparently the king air can get into some places the Gullfstream can't from what he was telling me Oh and I know a Dentist who has a some sort of fractional ownership with NetJets. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 8:52:04 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By doc540: Doctors are notoriously bad investors, big spenders, and income generators Thank goodness there are still plenty of Bonanza's to keep the population in check Came in to say something like this. I would like to add that physicians often partner with other medical professionals in their spending. You buy the plane, I’ll buy the yacht, another partner will buy the beach house, ad infinitum… Until they run out of partners, money, or new blood. Lots of money being made right now selling “practices” as well. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 8:54:43 PM EDT
[#7]
A friend of a friend of a friend is an orthopedic surgeon and owns this P-51 Mustang, it's worth at least $5M, probably more. Maybe a LOT more. It's the finest example I have seen, absolutely stunning and perfect in every way.
 Attached File |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 8:56:24 PM EDT
[#8]
I would think a neurolo surgeon takes in about a mill per year. So I would say yes it’s possible. However I don’t think your pcp working for large hospital is making that kind of money.
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Posted: 5/4/2024 8:59:21 PM EDT
[#9]
not going through three pages of this.
Docs also have some of the most extensive stamp collections I have ever seen. Like... everything. Ripping belts on a Mk.18 everything. And, you know what, good on them. For every one of them that are balling, there are five that fucking struggle financially while the hospitals they rent time in seem to be doing ok. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 9:02:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Lou_Daks]
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By high_order1: not going through three pages of this. Docs also have some of the most extensive stamp collections I have ever seen. Like... everything. Ripping belts on a Mk.18 everything. And, you know what, good on them. For every one of them that are balling, there are five that fucking struggle financially while the hospitals they rent time in seem to be doing ok. Agreed. Offspring was saved by an absolute saint of a man, a pediatric urologist. Famous and loved in his field. I hope he is a multi-billionaire. I never understood jealousy toward people who have really earned it. |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 9:22:01 PM EDT
[#11]
Yes, they make incredible amounts of money, especially if they own a practice or supervise other practices etc
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LA, USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 9:23:31 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mike_48: I've been to several docs over the years that are part owners in the X-ray, MRI or heart scan facility they want you to use so I assume they get a pretty good income from that without even being there. Some told me that up front. I don't really care that much as long as the techs running the machines know what they are doing. My cancer doc and his practice billed my insurance for 250K for a procedure I had done 10 years ago. I've no clue what they actually received. Probably all 250k |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 9:24:23 PM EDT
[#13]
Some of the surgeons in the higher paying specialties that I know were wise and invested in things early make more off those investments now than they get from their practices.
I’m in a “pretty good” one but I bought a boat (bad idea). I really like marlin fishing. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 9:30:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BuckeyeRifleman]
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By itchydingdong: Some of the surgeons in the higher paying specialties that I know were wise and invested in things early make more off those investments now than they get from their practices. I’m in a “pretty good” one but I bought a boat (bad idea). I really like marlin fishing. Based off the screen name… Urology? 
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Posted: 5/4/2024 9:39:23 PM EDT
[#15]
My father is a engineer that didn't finish high school until he was on a ship in Vietnam. I remember him toying with the idea of buying a jet so he didn't have to be at the mercy of commercial flights. My uncle was going to be his pilot. We went and looked at a few when I was a kid. Ultimately my step mom and his accountant talked him out of it.
. He has also never flown coach since TWA was flying propeller driven aircraft.
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GA, USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 9:43:17 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheKill: Yes, they make BANK. Although it's not quite as lavish as it used to be now with CMS capping costs and driving the reimbursement train. Girl has her tits redone. IIRC it was $12k, $7k of that went right to the surgeon. He was at the hospital at 7am, in surgery at 7:30, and he did her and three others before lunch. That's $16k straight profit in a half a day. He did surgeries on M, W, and Fr. Did his office visits Tue, Thurs, and Sat. So imagine doing 5 a day, that's 15 per week at 7k each. That is $105k/week. Assuming taking a month off per year, the gross revenue involved is $5M/yr. Take out expenses for a small office for consults and post op exams, including a front office/biller, and a nurse. Still a SHIT TON of money. And......most surgeons are Type A workaholics too, so most of them aren't just working 6 hours a day five days a week. Plastic surgeons make crazy money if they’re have way good at their jobs. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 9:45:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jsnappa]
[#17]
You can get an idea of surgeon salaries by looking at the state university system. Salaries are public record.
The local uni (UF) has at least 3 making >$1m and plenty in the $900k range. At the top is a pediatric CT surgeon @ $1.6m, next a gastroenterologist (in an admin position), then a neurosurgeon. State salaries, they may have other income? When I was there (RN) two of the CT surgeons pioneered an aortic root repair procedure. Obviously, business endeavors and investments can dwarf these incomes. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 9:49:02 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mike_48: I've been to several docs over the years that are part owners in the X-ray, MRI or heart scan facility they want you to use so I assume they get a pretty good income from that without even being there. Some told me that up front. I don't really care that much as long as the techs running the machines know what they are doing. My cancer doc and his practice billed my insurance for 250K for a procedure I had done 10 years ago. I've no clue what they actually received. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 9:50:25 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pilatuspilot: Flying an average 10 seat jet 500 hours a year costs about half of the purchase cost. $5000 x 500. And $5000/hr is the price you tell everyone. Not the actual price. The CFO will tell you that a $5M jet is really going to cost you $10k/hr to operate. 100% of jets are broken with at least $50-100k to repair. Until next week when it happens again. Yes Sir. Dodged a bullet. It seemed like a great deal until you see the TRUE costs. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 9:53:24 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lou_Daks: Agreed. Offspring was saved by an absolute saint of a man, a pediatric urologist. Famous and loved in his field. I hope he is a multi-billionaire. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lou_Daks: Agreed. Offspring was saved by an absolute saint of a man, a pediatric urologist. Famous and loved in his field. I hope he is a multi-billionaire. Originally Posted By itchydingdong: Some of the surgeons in the higher paying specialties that I know were wise and invested in things early make more off those investments now than they get from their practices. And, it's sad they have to have three side hustles like a police officer. The system is broken. Like mechanics, someone is pocketing all that money, and it sure isn't the one holding the wrench/scalpel in most cases. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 10:04:11 PM EDT
[#21]
Some fly in for procedures. Some procedures require 3 to fly from around the nation on 6 hours notice.
How do you get your team there when the newborn’s new heart becomes available? |
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USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 10:07:30 PM EDT
[#22]
A friend of mine is an orthopedic surgeon. He has over a dozen cars, each worth over $200k (Ferraris, Lambos, Rolls, etc), about 25 rental houses, a huge Rolex collection, and is considering buying a $20M house in the area.
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AR, USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 10:12:55 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zak406: I would think a neurolo surgeon takes in about a mill per year. So I would say yes it’s possible. However I don’t think your pcp working for large hospital is making that kind of money. Personal knowledge that this is correct, at least for my neurosurgeon. Supply and demand have a lot to do with salary. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 10:17:08 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pilatuspilot: Old chief pilot I used to work for knew and flew with Barry Seals. I could tell he was used to shady shit and expected us to do shady shit. I’m glad he retired and I moved on to more reputable stuff. That dude probably had more war stories than you've read about. Your loss, homeboy. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 10:25:18 PM EDT
[#25]
I know doctors that are broke and I know doctors with an 8 figure watch collection. Same thing for landscapers.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 10:36:13 PM EDT
[#26]
I know a dick prosthesis doc in Miami, he tells all new patients to bring their wife/girlfriend. His sales pitch is "Do you wanna fuck?"
A rich man with a smoking hot girlfriend who is 20 years younger than him... Will spend whatever he asks for in order to fuck... That dude has big $$$$. A really fast Ortho surgeon who does knee, shoulder, hip replacement... Huge $$$$$$ A cardio thoracic surgeon I used to work with, makes like $4,000,000+/yr... According to some of his colleagues... The $$$$ is there with the right specialty. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 10:43:58 PM EDT
[#27]
Does he own 100% of the jet?
It is common for people to own “shares” of an aircraft and have time slots. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 10:48:20 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigFatDog: Came in to say something like this. I would like to add that physicians often partner with other medical professionals in their spending. You buy the plane, I’ll buy the yacht, another partner will buy the beach house, ad infinitum… Until they run out of partners, money, or new blood. Lots of money being made right now selling “practices” as well. This.... Group of Ortho and Neuro surgeons I worked with years ago used to fly to South Carolina on Friday afternoons to play golf, stay on someone's yacht, etc and fly back on Sunday... |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 10:56:10 PM EDT
[#29]
Hate to break it to ya, but a Hondajet does not a ‘baller’ make.
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Posted: 5/4/2024 11:12:31 PM EDT
[#30]
I used to do engine trend downloads for a doc with a Global. He didn’t fly much and I have no idea what kind of high powered doc he was. There are a lot of doctors in my family and none are in the private jet realm. To travel a lot by your own jet you’re gonna be a billionaire these days. Otherwise it’s company money and a corporate jet and that’s a different story. I’ve flown both.
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Posted: 5/4/2024 11:15:28 PM EDT
[#31]
I don't see why not.
Hell, for many years the owner of the local Ford Dealership here owned a L39 Albatross to just fly for fun. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 11:20:01 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AZ_Sky: I don't see why not. Hell, for many years the owner of the local Ford Dealership here owned a L39 Albatross to just fly for fun. I mean lots of people could afford to buy a quarter million dollar jet and fly it six times a year until they killed themselves in it. Even I could afford to do that. 
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Posted: 5/4/2024 11:22:42 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fish223: First thing to remember is never diagnose someone's wallet. All kinds of "unexpected" money all kinds of places. +1 If it’s from his practice only, you’re talking about the very highest paid surgeons, ie. Neurosurgery, Cardiothoracic, etc. And even they don’t likely make enough to buy a $5 million plane + maintenance. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 11:27:37 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pilatuspilot: I mean lots of people could afford to buy a quarter million dollar jet and fly it six times a year until they killed themselves in it. Even I could afford to do that. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pilatuspilot: Originally Posted By AZ_Sky: I don't see why not. Hell, for many years the owner of the local Ford Dealership here owned a L39 Albatross to just fly for fun. I mean lots of people could afford to buy a quarter million dollar jet and fly it six times a year until they killed themselves in it. Even I could afford to do that. He flew it along with another friend here on the field that also had a L39 - the other guy was a retired airline pilot. They flew a lot of formation hops just for fun. After a few years, the fun was gone and they both ended up selling them and moved on to expensive boats... |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 11:28:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: neshomamench]
[#35]
No, not under normal situations.
The 97th % of Surgeons is less than 2 million a year. Trading time for dollars, a surgeon can not afford to own a business Jet. Some can afford to use one a time or two a year. "Other money from other places" aside.... If a Surgeon is in a lucrative top 2-3% situation or has just been really wise with their 400-1.5 million a year for a while....sure, they can get to "I own a fucking Jet" money. But almost all surgeons....no. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 11:33:37 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zak406: I would think a neurolo surgeon takes in about a mill per year. So I would say yes it’s possible. However I don’t think your pcp working for large hospital is making that kind of money. You cant own and operate a normal busimness Jet on a million dollars a year gross...unless its a used Vision and you live in the hangar next to it. Most people have no concept of how much it costs to own and run a private Jet. Doctors, even at the big end usually dont come close to getting a seat at that table. Considering it is about 1 million a year to run a small business jet (including debt service) it is really hard to do that with an income under a 4 or so million a year...and this is at the lower end. Most docs just dont rise to this level. Sure, then are some folks makin less than that that own a business that make it work....but my point is....a million or two...what the near top docs make, just does not get you to "this is my jet" money....even if they use a private jet from time to time. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 11:35:43 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TurdyDingo: And if they are owners in the facility. Doing the work isn't where most of the money is made. Owning the facility that does the procedures is. This. I know some former docs that gave up their MD license so the gravy train would continue into their pockets. The answer to OP is absolutely 'yes". |
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MT, USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 11:36:02 PM EDT
[#38]
Originally Posted By -SkyRaider-: Someone I know recently bought an HA-420 from a surgeon (who was upgrading equipment). That's a ~$5MM jet that I'm thinking costs not a penny under $1MM/year to operate, likely more. Do surgeons make THAT kind of money? Keep in mind, dude likely lives in a baller-level house and when he goes places in his jet, he likely doesn't sit in a Holiday Inn Express room and play solitaire on his 'puter all day. To me, if just doesn't add up. My ortho did. Insurance sent the pre authorization for my surgery next week. The thorasic surgeon is billing $250k for open heart next week. He does 3-4 of those per week plus other surgeries. $750k a week, that’s a lot of staff and a very nice salary. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 11:43:39 PM EDT
[#39]
I have no doubt.
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Posted: 5/4/2024 11:43:57 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gsc0527: My ortho did. Insurance sent the pre authorization for my surgery next week. The thorasic surgeon is billing $250k for open heart next week. He does 3-4 of those per week plus other surgeries. $750k a week, that’s a lot of staff and a very nice salary. While I’m sure those guys exist none of the docs in my family are even close. And the older ones who have owned planes in my day owned them in different times. Like all the guys who bought $1000 MP5s and $250,000 P51s. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 11:44:22 PM EDT
[#41]
Just adding to what others have said. Not on a typical surgeons salary they can’t. I know a GP that founded his own multi specialist facility and rents out office space to other physicians. He provides the staffing as far as nurses, receptionists and billing goes.
He could afford multiple jets if he wanted to. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 11:47:11 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gsc0527: My ortho did. Insurance sent the pre authorization for my surgery next week. The thorasic surgeon is billing $250k for open heart next week. He does 3-4 of those per week plus other surgeries. $750k a week, that’s a lot of staff and a very nice salary. I dont know your situation or your docs....but no matter what the numbers look like, there is a 99% chance he is banking, GROSS between 700K and 2.1 million a year. A very fine living....but still not own a private jet money. A 98th% surgeon is probably making less than someone that owns a few dozen Taco Bells. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 11:47:44 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PhuzzyGnu: Depends on the specialty. And the area. A brain/neuro/heart/back surgeon in a major city could easily afford one. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 11:51:30 PM EDT
[#44]
One doc I know at one point early in his divorce was paying 20K+ a MONTH in alimony to his ex. Lol.
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Posted: 5/4/2024 11:51:58 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MikeJGA: And the area. A brain/neuro/heart/back surgeon in a major city could easily afford one. No. Absolutely not. A TOP guy in a TOP lucrative situation, could barely afford one. Almost all....literally "near all" cant. IF....IF....a doc has a large technical component. (he has a business situation that earns him money besides his doctoring) then a the TOP end of those guys can afford their own jet. Again, I say, most people dont have a clue what it really costs to own and run a private business jet. Its close to 7 figures on the low end. Very few docs make that kind of money and almost all that do, are making money beyond doing doc stuff only. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 11:55:06 PM EDT
[#46]
Another way of looking at this is, doctors represent almost none of the private jet ownership market.
Next to no docs can afford their own business jet. It simply does not pay enough, even near the absolute biggest end. Docs dont get a seat at this table. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 11:56:18 PM EDT
[#47]
We fly a lot of doctors on the charter side of what I do. Trips in the $20-$40k range. Think Aspen, Los Angelas, New York, and the Caribbean. That’s a lot different than owning an airplane that costs millions of dollars a year and is in the shop for several months out of the year.
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Posted: 5/4/2024 11:57:58 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pilatuspilot: We fly a lot of doctors on the charter side of what I do. Trips in the $20-$40k range. Think Aspen, Los Angelas, New York, and the Caribbean. That’s a lot different than owning an airplane that costs millions of dollars a year and is in the shop for several months out of the year. A truth bomb. This is the reality of the bigger earning docs. They get to use them a time or two a year, they are a long ways away from owning their own. |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 12:06:42 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By neshomamench: A truth bomb. This is the reality of the bigger earning docs. They get to use them a time or two a year, they are a long ways away from owning their own. Exactly. Even the debt service alone on a ‘cheap’ jet is tens of thousands of dollars a month. Plus pilot salary, insurance, engine and parts escrow, upgrade reserves, fuel, unexpected shit breaking. It adds to many millions a year. I live in constant fear that my billionaire owner will decide it’s not worth it. Then it’s rinse and repeat for me with a new billionaire owner. |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 12:14:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: neshomamench]
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pilatuspilot: Exactly. Even the debt service alone on a ‘cheap’ jet is tens of thousands of dollars a month. Plus pilot salary, insurance, engine and parts escrow, upgrade reserves, fuel, unexpected shit breaking. It adds to many millions a year. I live in constant fear that my billionaire owner will decide it’s not worth it. Then it’s rinse and repeat for me with a new billionaire owner. Yep. This thread is proof that people dont understand what a million or two of income will buy.....or what how much richer than that you must be to buy and run a private jet. Folks, even among the high earning docs, next to none of them can afford their own business jet. in many places your 1.5 million a year surgeon (which is still on the big end of surgeon income) might get to live in the big house in the best area and drive the exotic car....he looks really rich and yep, he makes a fine living. But he aint shit compared to the guy that lives next to him....that has the same kind of house and same kind of car.....but owns the HVAC company that runs 50 vans, or the Hedge Fund guy on the other side that makes 15 million a year. 100 million guy and 5 million dollar guy look the same at starbucks in an S class or a Lambo. At the airport one is flying first class, the other has his own jet....and you dont see that guy at the part of the airport that 99.9% of people go to. Almost all docs, even on the bigger end cant even see private jet ownership from their income level. |
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