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Posted: 5/15/2024 12:24:29 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ThreadKiller: What? That Neocons fucked us for the last 20 years? I don't need to prove it, I fucking lived it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ThreadKiller: Originally Posted By DKUltra: Prove me wronkski What? That Neocons fucked us for the last 20 years? I don't need to prove it, I fucking lived it.  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 12:27:15 AM EDT
[#2]
Maybe russia has been fucking us longer than we thought?
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MO, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2024 12:29:03 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: "nobody is rooting for Russia! You Pro-Ukraine boys are making stuff up!" Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: Originally Posted By OscarD: I’m fingers crossed for a Russia win. Then they can rebuild it or not. Otherwise if Ukraine sues for peace and gives up territory (let’s be honest they’re never going back to prewar borders) then we’ll end up paying for that too. Halliburton execs masturbate furiously at the thought of a decade worth of US funded contracts rebuilding Europes taint. "nobody is rooting for Russia! You Pro-Ukraine boys are making stuff up!" I never said I wasn’t. Fuck rebuilding that shithole on the backs of the US taxpayer. |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 12:29:55 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DKUltra: Her ya go comradski https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/110810/IMG_1756_jpeg-3214702.JPG Oh wow, I'm so enlightened now. But WTF does that have to do with the 20 years of war and trillions of dollars we spent in the Middle East? Uh nothing? Much like the Neocon policies gave us. Absolutely nothing. |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 12:31:12 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JLAudio: It is true, Ukraine being a NATO member will not happen. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JLAudio: It is true, Ukraine being a NATO member will not happen. Says who? The most influential people in actual positions of control say it will once the war is over. Originally Posted By JLAudio: The prospect of NATO membership for Ukraine, which has been stated as a Red Line from Russia dating back to the early 1990's, Where is this documented? What happened to the other red lines that were crossed? Modern western tanks to Ukraine? Long range artillery? F16s? Even Putin admitted nations were free to join nato until he needed them not to and it was in the way of his plans. Originally Posted By JLAudio: along with Democrat and US interference in Ukraine causing the Maiden Coup and Democrats being demolished over Hillary Clinton's loss, and the subsequent blame of Russia for that loss, is what caused this war. You're once again blaming the victim for trying to create a better life and flee their oppressors. Why would you want to be aligned with the people who did this to your fellow citizens?   Attached FileOriginally Posted By JLAudio: That's why there is overwhelmingly positive Democrat party support for the war, and waning and diminishing Republican support for continuing to fund Ukraine's border defense. Stopping support for a war doesn't mean the war stops. It just turns into a genocide..sooner, rather than later. We need more social spending, you know. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/15/2024 12:31:53 AM EDT
[#6]
The globalist neocons' hatred of the Russian people stinks to high hell.
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MO, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2024 12:33:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: OscarD]
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By blueballs: I can't imagine letting my life become so unbalanced that this statement would seem like a reasonable thing to write. I can’t imagine being so irrational that the idea of dumping a trillion or more into a nation of zero strategic interest seems sane. Let alone during a period of inflation that most of us have no memory to draw a comparison to. Yet you Ukebois just can’t seem any more anxious to shovel Americas future into the furnace. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2024 12:35:15 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ThreadKiller: Ukraine is not an ally. They are using us for our money and weapons, and we are using them for their cannon fodder. But by all means, keep throwing men and equipment and burning budgets for yet another lost cause that is in our "interests", as if we haven't heard this tired lie before. How many interventions does it take for a neocon to finally wake up? Apparently an infinite number is the answer. The inevitable Russian victory will make absolutely zero difference in my life. Ukraine is neither indispensable nor is it relevant to our hemisphere. But the miscalculations and blatantly stupid foreign policy and spending by our own Government will make a huge difference here at home. For the first part of my like Ukraine lived under the boot of a Russian led Soviet Union. It impacted my life in no meaningful way. Then they gained independence and it impacted my life in no meaningful way. I see no reason why them going back under the boot should be of any concern to me. |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 12:36:06 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JLAudio: Such a simplistic view of things. I'm not advocating for a particular position, just trying to point out real world reality. Ukranista's always try to make it personal posters positions and the reality on the ground isn't personal, while the Ukraine position attempts to use Russia's stated goals from years ago while dismissing Ukraine's states goals from the same time, and using that as point to make in 2024. Ukraine may need to give up some sovereignty to survive this war. That's the reality of the situation on the ground. Russia will prevent them from joining NATO. American's shouldn't be put at risk (both lives and money) to defend Ukraine's borders (personal position). The idea that Russia is going to invade a NATO member is simply a pipe dream and is not grounded in reality. May need to give up sovereignty, you are actually going to sit here and say that bullshi? Your postulating Ukraine will accept a peace agreement that cedes territory at least regions that Russia has already declared Ukrainian and since annexed, that they will also agree to no NATO or EU membership and view that as realistic. The lose territory, lose ability to enter international agreements based on an aggressors promise to not do it again. Do you see how unworkable that is? You are asking them to give up full sovereignly and accept being a Russian Vassal, why would they not continue fighting? |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2024 12:40:14 AM EDT
[#10]
What a wierd thread, Americans saying that citizens of a country should appease a greater military force. Kinda seems like it goes against everything we stand for. So much for "Don't tread on me"
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Posted: 5/15/2024 12:43:02 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: Says who? The most influential people in actual positions of control say it will once the war is over. Where is this documented? What happened to the other red lines that were crossed? Modern western tanks to Ukraine? Long range artillery? F16s? Even Putin admitted nations were free to join nato until he needed them not to and it was in the way of his plans. You're once again blaming the victim for trying to create a better life and flee their oppressors. Why would you want to be aligned with the people who did this to your fellow citizens? https://tse4.explicit.bing.net/th?id=OIP.IAVU8VWKcZRCplXdGjSrygHaFg&pid=Api&P=0&h=220 https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/51435/1000017420_png-3048919_jpeg-3214699.JPG Stopping support for a war doesn't mean the war stops. It just turns into a genocide..sooner, rather than later. We need more social spending, you know. The NATO charter says who. It doesn't matter what Democrats say. Where is this documented? James Baker, Secretary of State, famously said "Not one inch eastward", you can even read the documents for yourself. U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s famous “not one inch eastward” assurance about NATO expansion in his meeting with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev on February 9, 1990, was part of a cascade of assurances about Soviet security given by Western leaders to Gorbachev and other Soviet officials throughout the process of German unification in 1990 and on into 1991, according to declassified U.S., Soviet, German, British and French documents posted today by the National Security Archive at George Washington University I am not aligned with Russia, Mr. The sun is fading. You know this and it's disingenuous for you to insinuate that considering our previous exchanges. Grow up. Stopping aid and support does mean the war will come to an end. The stronger party prevails. World history proves that. |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 12:44:12 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: If things are going well for Russia and they are on their way to achieving some of their war aims eventually, why would Russia negotiate now? Probably only to arrange the surrender of territories. Its not really a matter of whether that is morally right, or enabling aggression, but its more of a matter of how many more losses Ukraine wants to have fighting for a 1991 border that already isn't coming back. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2024 12:44:13 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 0311SKI: What a wierd thread, Americans saying that citizens of a country should appease a greater military force. Kinda seems like it goes against everything we stand for. So much for "Don't tread on me" This is how a new welfare state is born. The fact that the DNC unanimously supports a bottomless book of blank checks for something should give anyone here pause for consideration. |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 12:45:15 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OscarD: For the first part of my like Ukraine lived under the boot of a Russian led Soviet Union. It impacted my life in no meaningful way. Then they gained independence and it impacted my life in no meaningful way. I see no reason why them going back under the boot should be of any concern to me. You Sir, get it. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2024 12:46:31 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OscarD: This is how a new welfare state is born. The fact that the DNC unanimously supports a bottomless book of blank checks for something should give anyone here pause for consideration. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OscarD: Originally Posted By 0311SKI: What a wierd thread, Americans saying that citizens of a country should appease a greater military force. Kinda seems like it goes against everything we stand for. So much for "Don't tread on me" This is how a new welfare state is born. The fact that the DNC unanimously supports a bottomless book of blank checks for something should give anyone here pause for consideration. I'm not talking about the U.S. budget, im talking about the posts saying Ukraine needs to sue for peace as an end to the fight. |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 12:48:57 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Commando223: Yet they have spare troops available to fill our leftover bases in Africa. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Commando223: Originally Posted By Bogdan: Ah yes the russians setting a new record for daily casualties and equipment loss before the US aid gets here. Sketti thread. Yet they have spare troops available to fill our leftover bases in Africa. Well, it is pretty easy for them to get volunteers to fill those positions! |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 12:51:46 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BobRoberts: May need to give up sovereignty, you are actually going to sit here and say that bullshi? Your postulating Ukraine will accept a peace agreement that cedes territory at least regions that Russia has already declared Ukrainian and since annexed, that they will also agree to no NATO or EU membership and view that as realistic. The lose territory, lose ability to enter international agreements based on an aggressors promise to not do it again. Do you see how unworkable that is? You are asking them to give up full sovereignly and accept being a Russian Vassal, why would they not continue fighting? They certainly can continue to fight down to the last Ukranian man, with or without support, that is their choice to make. NATO membership isn't up to Ukraines determination or decision. That's for the charter and other members to determine and vote on. As long as Ukraine or other NATO members consider Ukraine to be in a state of war, that is an immediate disqualifier for member nations and the written charter. I'm not asking them to do anything. |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 1:04:16 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 56xdx_Z: Probably only to arrange the surrender of territories. Its not really a matter of whether that is morally right, or enabling aggression, but its more of a matter of how many more losses Ukraine wants to have fighting for a 1991 border that already isn't coming back. You misunderstand. Why do pro Russian posters believe that Russia would settle on the present lines? |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 1:17:00 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: You misunderstand. Why do pro Russian posters believe that Russia would settle on the present lines? You would have to ask them.  I don't see Russia settling on present lines though. Ukraine is looking at either surrendering additional territories, or losing them through force. Not a great situation to be in.
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Posted: 5/15/2024 1:22:32 AM EDT
[#20]
The juice has not been worth the squeeze by any measure.
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Posted: 5/15/2024 1:45:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Hill_monkey]
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ServusVeritatis:
Ukraine better watch it! At this rate of advance Kyiv will fall in just 103 years and western Ukraine in 256 years. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2024 2:35:47 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BangStick1: It doesn't matter at this point how much money is sent, Ukraine doesn't have the manpower anymore. Too little too late for a war they'll never win. This. It’s simple math really and no matter how hysterically emotional some here get, calling those who see the writing on the wall ‘Putin puffers’ isn’t going to change the fact that Ukraine doesn’t have enough able bodied men to hold back a determined Russia who is apparently more than willing to absorb massive losses to western weapons to get what they want. Other than sending American troops to fight and die for that shithole, Ukraines only real hope is a negotiated peace and loss of some territory but survival as a nation. Fuck Putin but also FJB for illegitimately being in office which encouraged Putin to do what he’s wanted to do for awhile but was probably afraid to do until the weakest and most incompetent administration in US history showed up. |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 2:39:59 AM EDT
[#23]
Russia has amassed more than half a million troops on the front line in a dramatic bid to overpower Ukrainian forces, analysts say.
Vladimir Putin's army significantly outnumbers the Western-backed troops, forcing them to use up ammunition supplies. Dr Jack Watling, from the Royal United Services Institute (RUSI), said: 'The Russian forces have now expanded to 510,000 troops. 'The outlook for Ukraine is bleak. Its allies must replenish stockpiles.' The warning came as Russia continued its advances in northern Ukraine, which threaten the country's second city, Kharkiv.  Defense Secretary Grant Shapps suggested the advances had 'caught the West napping'. It may also have prompted a visit by US Secretary of State Antony Blinken to Kyiv yesterday to reassure president Volodymyr Zelensky that US military aid was 'on its way'. Mr Blinken said: 'We know this is a challenging time. 'But US aid is going to make a real difference against the ongoing Russian aggression on the battlefield.' Link |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 3:02:27 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Subpar: Do you have a hypothesis as to why the Ukraine didn’t do more to prepare in the 8 years since Russia annexed Crimea? 8 years to prepare and they’re reliant on a gofundme to hold on to eastern manure pastures? Over 30 years to prepare. |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 3:02:53 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JLAudio: The NATO charter says who. It doesn't matter what Democrats say. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JLAudio: The NATO charter says who. It doesn't matter what Democrats say. All of Nato are democrats? The majority of Nato is in favor of Ukraine being added. However they have to win their war, first. Originally Posted By JLAudio: Where is this documented? James Baker, Secretary of State, famously said "Not one inch eastward", you can even read the documents for yourself. U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s famous “not one inch eastward” assurance about NATO expansion in his meeting with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev on February 9, 1990, was part of a cascade of assurances about Soviet security given by Western leaders to Gorbachev and other Soviet officials throughout the process of German unification in 1990 and on into 1991, according to declassified U.S., Soviet, German, British and French documents posted today by the National Security Archive at George Washington University I've been hoping you would bring this up since it's pretty easily documented as being misconstrued and lied about. The "promise" was so important it never made it into any agreement. It never made it past discussion. It never was brought up at any point except by the various pro-Russian factions when they whine about big, bad Nato. It was never discussed at any point further and even Gorbachev himself said it didn't prevent new nations from joining Nato. Putin himself has said nations were free to join Nato. COMMENTARY Did NATO Promise Not to Enlarge? Gorbachev Says “No” It is abundantly evident that Russian President Vladimir Putin is no fan of NATO. Indeed, he displays a pronounced—almost obsessive—antipathy toward the Alliance. He claims that NATO took advantage of Russian weakness after the collapse of the Soviet Union to enlarge to its east, in violation of promises allegedly made to Moscow by Western leaders. But no such promises were made—a point now confirmed by someone who was definitely in a position to know: Mikhail Gorbachev, then president of the Soviet Union. Let's assume it was an agreement, somewhere. We will play along with the myth. In the early 90s, after the agreement for "no nato expansion" Russia launched 2 wars in neighboring countries in Eastern Europe to prevent them from joining Nato using the same pattern as 2014 Ukraine-Moldova and Georgia, aka "Abkhazia, Transnistria, and Ossettia". Poor, oppressed Ethnic Russian speakers who happened to be in another country and yearned to be apart of Russia were backed by the various Russian deep state entities and handily given weapons, guidance, advisers, and in some cases actual soldiers. Russia took advantage of this "agreement" to invade and annex land in 2 other countries. The argument can be made Russia took advantage of this because the next round of Nato "expansion" happened on March 12th, 1999 with Poland, Hungary, and the Czech Republic, arguably in response to the conflicts. Russia also claims land in.. Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, and even Alaska. Originally Posted By JLAudio: I am not aligned with Russia, Mr. The sun is fading. You know this and it's disingenuous for you to insinuate that considering our previous exchanges. Grow up. Stopping aid and support does mean the war will come to an end. The stronger party prevails. World history proves that. You probably believe disarming people keeps them safe, too. We can look at the conquered areas filled with mass graves and torture chambers where the "war ended".
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USA
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Posted: 5/15/2024 3:09:18 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AKzgalore: The globalist neocons' hatred of the Russian people stinks to high hell. Who are they? Why do they hate the Russian people? I started slipping in that direction, I hate Putin and his war, but I stopped not long after the war began. |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 3:16:56 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DKUltra: Pootin did a damn good job of buying off Conservative Media. For that I applaud him! He knew right where to hit us below the belt, without the Conservative base even knowing. Pretty much. |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 3:20:18 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OregonShooter: Over 30 years to prepare. Helps when you don't have a pro-Russian leader sabotaging your military procurement and stealing billions. We also have the idea of Finlandization. A strong Ukraine would have been a threat to Russia because it stood in the way of their idea of Russia being the "mother" country of all slavic nations. |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 3:28:43 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 56xdx_Z: It seems like Ukraine is in decision paralysis mode, because if they choose to negotiate now, it would be an admission that they can save their lives by negotiating, and that there were six figures worth of unnecessary losses for not doing it sooner. But if they keep fighting, the situation will actually keep getting worse. Thankfully not the US's problem unless we make it ours. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 56xdx_Z: Originally Posted By ThreadKiller: It's not my place to say. Nor is it even remotely my problem what they chose to do. They can fight and die if they want. Can't say I would do differently in their shoes. But Ukraine is not my country. It seems like Ukraine is in decision paralysis mode, because if they choose to negotiate now, it would be an admission that they can save their lives by negotiating, and that there were six figures worth of unnecessary losses for not doing it sooner. But if they keep fighting, the situation will actually keep getting worse. Thankfully not the US's problem unless we make it ours. |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 3:29:23 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DKUltra: So true!!  Hi Sketti! Missed you little buddy!  Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DKUltra: Originally Posted By Ascendent: Two things you can count on. The sun rising in the east and setting in the west, Sketti aiding Russians and any other American enemies he can. Hi Sketti! Missed you little buddy!  |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 3:37:48 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sketti: "Thankfully not the US's problem unless we make it ours." - Too late, the dumbass Biden administration has already made it our problem and it will only get worst. Trump had actual American soldiers and airmen in Ukraine training Ukrainians. So about that
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Posted: 5/15/2024 4:37:55 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: Trump had actual American soldiers and airmen in Ukraine training Ukrainians. So about that Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: Originally Posted By Sketti: "Thankfully not the US's problem unless we make it ours." - Too late, the dumbass Biden administration has already made it our problem and it will only get worst. Trump had actual American soldiers and airmen in Ukraine training Ukrainians. So about that So? 
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Posted: 5/15/2024 5:17:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: trapsh00ter99]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By daemon734: They never did. The Democrats and NATO did. And I'm not debating Ukraine isn't in a perilous position right now, and my comment wasn't meant as a slight on the US mil at all or those who served at all. |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 5:33:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Abakan]
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 0311SKI: What a wierd thread, Americans saying that citizens of a country should appease a greater military force. Kinda seems like it goes against everything we stand for. So much for "Don't tread on me"  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 6:44:18 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sketti: So? Trump’s problem, too
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Posted: 5/15/2024 7:36:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: sjm1582002]
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: Helps when you don't have a pro-Russian leader sabotaging your military procurement and stealing billions. We also have the idea of Finlandization. A strong Ukraine would have been a threat to Russia because it stood in the way of their idea of Russia being the "mother" country of all slavic nations. Just who elected that "pro Russian" Ukrainian leader? Were the Ukrainian people better off then than they are now with their "pro American" leader? Maybe someday, if elections are ever again held in what's left of the country, the Ukrainians will elect a "pro Ukrainian" leader and not someone who proves to be a stooge of a foreign nation. As for Finland, I'll just note the peace treaty signed way back in 1947, that ended the Continuation War, has never been violated by Finland, the Soviets, or the Russians. |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 8:53:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Kihn]
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: Why aren't more Russians volunteering for their war? Why the need to draft Ukrainians from conquered territories? Because casualties affect opinion on the war back home. Hence, them drafting more minority populations in the Russian Federation since the beginning. And with impressing the locals in Ukraine (both sides are doing this). The one big lesson of Vietnam. |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 11:14:13 AM EDT
[#38]
Just more insignificant towns and villages falling to Russia.
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Posted: 5/17/2024 5:54:23 AM EDT
[#39]
Zelensky: No reports of artillery shortages for past 2 months
For the first time since the launch of Russia's full-scale invasion, no Ukrainian brigades have reported a lack of artillery shells, President Volodymyr Zelensky told reporters on May 16. "And this has been happening for the past two months," he said, but added: "Everyone still has a lot of work to do." I can distinctly remember less than 2 months ago numerous repots saying the shortage was critical and causing them to loose, this Zelensky fellow must be a Russian agent. |
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Posted: 5/17/2024 8:16:08 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: Trump had actual American soldiers and airmen in Ukraine training Ukrainians. So about that Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: Originally Posted By Sketti: "Thankfully not the US's problem unless we make it ours." - Too late, the dumbass Biden administration has already made it our problem and it will only get worst. Trump had actual American soldiers and airmen in Ukraine training Ukrainians. So about that "I think what you're going to see is that Russia will be held accountable if it invades. And it depends on what it does. It's one thing if it's a minor incursion and then we end up having a fight about what to do and not do." |
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Posted: 5/17/2024 8:37:40 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryCertainly hope they aren't Americans. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/17/2024 11:04:11 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By R0N: Zelensky: No reports of artillery shortages for past 2 months I can distinctly remember less than 2 months ago numerous repots saying the shortage was critical and causing them to loose, this Zelensky fellow must be a Russian agent. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By R0N: Zelensky: No reports of artillery shortages for past 2 months For the first time since the launch of Russia's full-scale invasion, no Ukrainian brigades have reported a lack of artillery shells, President Volodymyr Zelensky told reporters on May 16. "And this has been happening for the past two months," he said, but added: "Everyone still has a lot of work to do." I can distinctly remember less than 2 months ago numerous repots saying the shortage was critical and causing them to loose, this Zelensky fellow must be a Russian agent. Weird! 
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Posted: 5/17/2024 3:24:41 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Russia is far from achieving their war aims so there’s no reason to believe they’ll make peace under any reasonably conceivable terms. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Originally Posted By Thuban: He is right... Ukraine can't win this war. Taking back all of their territory doesn't mean the Russians give up. Hell, Ukraine taking Moscow doesn't mean the Ukrainians win either and no one seriously thinks they can do that, or anything close to it. This war goes until one side gives up, or both sides agree to a cease fire. And Russia apparently will not give up Ukraine can't give up given what the Russians would do to them now. And that means that both sides need to be pushed into a cease fire agreement with terms much like the ones mentioned above. It sucks and I hate to see the Russians gain anything out of this war. But the Russians have lost far more than they gained if the war ends. And while some people, like the Russians, might be willing to endure anything when their nation is at war, when they are at peace they might end up being quite dissatisfied with the leadership of Putin, we can only hope. Russia is far from achieving their war aims so there’s no reason to believe they’ll make peace under any reasonably conceivable terms. Maybe, maybe not. Their war aims were to conquer Ukraine completely in a few days then have a big victory parade. Naturally, per their plan, the Ukrainians would gladly go along with being conquered. I mean, the Russians were getting the band back together and the Ukrainian people were expected to show about the same resistance Matt Guitar Murphy showed when the Blues Brothers showed up. (Maybe there would have been a dance number with Aretha Franklin.) Sadly for the Russians the Ukrainians were more interested in reenacting the movie Red Dawn.... Point is that Russia's new war aims are likely to find a way to get out of this war with some hint of honor intact. They need to claim some kind of victory so they can wave their little Russian dicks around and brag to their people about how Russia Stronk or something. I hate the idea of seeing the Russians claim any kind of victory here... unless it was the proper total victory I hope Russia gets which is to do away with Putin and his cronies. But the West is going broke, depleting our stockpiles of weapons. Ukraine is losing men they desperately need. And the whole war is certainly helping to destabilize the whole world. Everyone should want to see this war end and someone ought to be taking steps to get both sides to come to some kind of negotiated peace. |
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Posted: 5/17/2024 9:24:33 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AKzgalore: The globalist neocons' hatred of the Russian people stinks to high hell.
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NPL
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Posted: 5/17/2024 9:37:22 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 0311SKI: What a wierd thread, Americans saying that citizens of a country should appease a greater military force. Kinda seems like it goes against everything we stand for. So much for "Don't tread on me |
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Posted: 5/17/2024 9:39:30 PM EDT
[#46]
Putin: Russia carving out 'buffer zone' around Kharkiv
 Putin: Russia carving out 'buffer zone' around Kharkiv | REUTERS |
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Posted: 5/17/2024 9:43:48 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By realwar: Putin: Russia carving out 'buffer zone' around Kharkiv  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSW2aShYlUQTo shell the shit out of it. They need to fuckin' negotiate an end to this. |
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Posted: 5/17/2024 10:20:19 PM EDT
[#48]
The CIA just needs to take out Putin. That snek has one head.
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UT, USA
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Posted: 5/17/2024 11:51:21 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By realwar: Russia has amassed more than half a million troops on the front line in a dramatic bid to overpower Ukrainian forces, analysts say. Vladimir Putin's army significantly outnumbers the Western-backed troops, forcing them to use up ammunition supplies. Dr Jack Watling, from the Royal United Services Institute (RUSI), said: 'The Russian forces have now expanded to 510,000 troops. 'The outlook for Ukraine is bleak. Its allies must replenish stockpiles.' The warning came as Russia continued its advances in northern Ukraine, which threaten the country's second city, Kharkiv. https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2024/05/15/01/41597790-13419181-Last_month_a_massive_troop_build_up_in_Russia_s_south_and_south_-a-82_1715732210143.jpg Defense Secretary Grant Shapps suggested the advances had 'caught the West napping'. It may also have prompted a visit by US Secretary of State Antony Blinken to Kyiv yesterday to reassure president Volodymyr Zelensky that US military aid was 'on its way'. Mr Blinken said: 'We know this is a challenging time. 'But US aid is going to make a real difference against the ongoing Russian aggression on the battlefield.' Link Russia now has a half-million troops available to throw at Ukraine? How did this happen? When did this happen? Hadn't the Russian Army been degraded for a generation and the invasion force reduced by 87% ? Haven't our economic sanctions brought them to their knees ? Isn't Russia on the verge of collapse economically and militarily ? Yet here we are in May 2024, and Russia has nearly three times as many troops in Ukraine as it did in 2022 and is apparently preparing to unleash a modern version of Operation Bagration. Ya know, I'm beginning to suspect the Media, NATO, and the Ukrainian and the US governments might not be telling us the truth.... |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 8:09:56 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GarandM1: Interesting how a single news story can completely contradict the dominant Media narrative of the past two years. Russia now has a half-million troops available to throw at Ukraine? How did this happen? When did this happen? Hadn't the Russian Army been degraded for a generation and the invasion force reduced by 87% ? Haven't our economic sanctions brought them to their knees ? Isn't Russia on the verge of collapse economically and militarily ? Yet here we are in May 2024, and Russia has nearly three times as many troops in Ukraine as it did in 2022 and is apparently preparing to unleash a modern version of Operation Bagration. Ya know, I'm beginning to suspect the Media, NATO, and the Ukrainian and the US governments might not be telling us the truth.... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GarandM1: Interesting how a single news story can completely contradict the dominant Media narrative of the past two years. Russia now has a half-million troops available to throw at Ukraine? How did this happen? When did this happen? Hadn't the Russian Army been degraded for a generation and the invasion force reduced by 87% ? Haven't our economic sanctions brought them to their knees ? Isn't Russia on the verge of collapse economically and militarily ? Yet here we are in May 2024, and Russia has nearly three times as many troops in Ukraine as it did in 2022 and is apparently preparing to unleash a modern version of Operation Bagration. Ya know, I'm beginning to suspect the Media, NATO, and the Ukrainian and the US governments might not be telling us the truth.... Russia has had around a half million troops for a while. There hasn't been a major breakthrough yet but a lot of widowed Russians..a lot. Russia still doesn't have the entirety of Ukraine like they wanted in May of 2024. Originally Posted By Kihn: To shell the shit out of it. They need to fuckin' negotiate an end to this. How did negotiations work the last time? Putin doesn't care. |
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