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Posted: 8/8/2004 6:42:43 PM EDT
[#1]
I may have missed something, but has anybody tried Hodgedon BL-C(2) yet? (aka "Ball C"). I've had good luck with it in 7.62 and 5.56 NATO loads. Usually the powder charges listed are almost exactly the same as W748, but I get higher velocities with BL-C(2) and it seems to burn a little cleaner.
AShooter |
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Posted: 8/8/2004 7:39:10 PM EDT
[#2]
I haven't tried it yet.
I'll run some modelling tomorrow. -z |
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Posted: 8/8/2004 11:29:38 PM EDT
[#3]
anyone found any production ammo out anywhere? source of brass?
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Posted: 8/9/2004 7:26:43 AM EDT
[#4]
I heard a couple weeks ago from a friend who has a contact at Remington LE that they were going to run production ammo starting in August (now?!). It would be going to S.F. and then Barrett, with normal civilian sales after that. He guessed it would start being shipping to normal distributors in Sept. No brass would be available until the SF & Barrett orders were filled. This is all second-hand and I can't guarantee any of it.
-z |
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Posted: 8/9/2004 7:57:43 AM EDT
[#5]
BLC2-
I think BLC2 may be too bulky. Modeling suggests a starting load of 30.0gr (101.1% capacity), OAL 2.285", should be around 2450fps (43200psi). The computed max load should be somewhere around 32.0gr (107.9% capacity) for 2641fps and 54700 psi. I don't know if you can even fit that much in the case. For comparison, the H335 and RL10X loads I'm using are no more than 103% of capacity, computed. For W748, a starting load of 29.5gr (computed 2475fps, 44kpsi) is already at 100.4%. The computed max of 31.4gr is at 107% capacity. Again, I'm skeptical enough could be fit in the case. None of this is actual experimental data -- it's all from computer modeling which may not work out in the real world due to differences in barrels, etc. Do not use this directly as load data. -z |
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Posted: 8/9/2004 8:00:44 AM EDT
[#6]
Anyone have the 10-rnd PRI mags in stock?
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Posted: 8/9/2004 8:02:25 AM EDT
[#7]
Have you called PRI themselves? 419-629-2603
Dave and Shawn have always given me straight answers and excellent service. -z |
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Posted: 8/12/2004 7:19:36 AM EDT
[#8]
Hi all,
Worked some with VV N540 and at 27.5g only got up to 2100fps. Case will hold about 33g and have new loads for this weekend going up from 28.5. Also, will try some loads with VV N133. Both powders end up with compressed loads once the bullet is seated. FYI- If you can find VV powder, consider yourself lucky, distributors cannot ship it until they get their hazmat license update, which will take another 2 months. I found one can of N540, and a few n133 at a local shop. No-one can ship them presently, such as Grafs and others. Mark |
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Posted: 8/12/2004 7:44:29 AM EDT
[#9]
Markeagle,
I think N540 will end up being too bulky. It won't match what you can do with RL10X, H322, or H335 in terms of velocity. Be extremely careful approaching 31.7gr, which creates 54364 psi in the computer model (55,000 is MAX). There is N133 data on the Load Data page linked in this thread (first post, and my post on page 4). My cases were full and loads a little compressed at 27.0gr, which yielded about 2590fps. Zak's home-grown 6.8SPC Load Data page My favorite is RL10X these days. H335 is not accurate in my gun. -z |
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Posted: 8/12/2004 8:30:19 AM EDT
[#10]
Zak has graciously contributed 6.8 load data to ammoguide.com/ and took advantage of the free year subscription offer. Like we say in California, Gracias, Amigo! h
http://ammoguide.com/gfx/web/68remspcplus.jpg Mike |
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Posted: 8/13/2004 7:45:32 PM EDT
[#11]
I'm not going to be able to do any more load development until I get back from RM3G & ITRC at the end of this month. I plan to load up a bunch of RL10X loads, and maybe some 2230, and do accuracy testing.
-z |
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Posted: 8/14/2004 6:59:29 AM EDT
[#12]
Zak
I have some VV N133 loaded, and was able to get to nearly 30g, and I like your load. (already had them loaded Monday). The upper end may get too hot and may have to pull bullets and such. While still learning, I have a reloading guru who is going to be reviewing the loads as we shoot and chrono. I think you are right about the VV N540, but I was hoping to try a few more loads before giving up. The loads end up being compressed, but when I pulled a bullet ina factory load, it was compressed also. After hammering bullet out, the powder had to be picked out, and was right around 29.9g. It was really packed in tightly. Thanks for the info from your pages. I'll send back results from today. Mark |
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Posted: 8/14/2004 9:40:29 AM EDT
[#13]
What production ammo do you have? Does it have a ball powder? The preprod stuff I have has a fine ball powder. Most of the ball powders I've tried will fit over 31gr in the case.
There was no way I could fit 30gr of N133 in the case, but I wasn't going to mess with tamping it down multiple times. My guess is that 30-gr of N133 will be too hot, so be very careful going beyond 27.0gr. -z |
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Posted: 8/15/2004 10:08:24 AM EDT
[#14]
Zak,
Here are the results; VV N540 28.5g 2200fps 29 2289 29.5 2379 30.0 2476 31.5 2583 32 2631 VV N133 24 2260 25 2290 26 2388 27 2458 27.5 2495 28 2532 28.5 2590 29 2614 29.5 2680 Still a little room for additional Using Model One sales, 20" upper A3. Sierra 100gr . Temp was 75 and wind variable Pact chronograph Mark |
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Posted: 8/15/2004 2:02:07 PM EDT
[#15]
What primers did you use, and what was their condition after firing?
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Posted: 8/16/2004 4:43:02 AM EDT
[#16]
Those of you considering a 6.8 SPC should also take a look at the 6.5 Grendel before you make your decision.
The 6.5 Grendel has the advantages of the 6.8 SPC (AR lower use, minor magazine conversion, same weight, same recoil) but is shooting much more accurately. The 6.8 SPC is only achieving 1.0 MOA at 100 yards. The 6.5 Grendel is achieving 0.5 MOA at 600 yards. More info is available at the 6.5 Grendel enthusiast site: www.65grendel.com The 6.5 Grendel was developed by Alexander Arms ( www.alexanderarms.com ) with help from Lapua (Highly recognized match and hunting ammo manufacturer) and Dr. Lou Palmisano (developer of the match winning PPC line of ammunition). |
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Posted: 8/16/2004 6:08:17 AM EDT
[#17]
Autobahndriver:
thanks for the info on the 6.5 Grendel it looks like a fine cartridge, as for myself I considered both rounds when they first came out and have decided on the 6.8 SPC. My observations tell me it will fill the bill of a battle rifle better than the 6.5 in the m16 platform, less metal removed from the bolt and good fragmentation out to 300 yards. Is it the best all round cartridge no, not sure there is such a thing but it is a step up from the 5.56mm Accuracy is something you can chase for ever, the tighter the group you get the more you try to better that. This leads us to what is acceptable accuracy, what size group do we need and at what range. I believe the 6.8 can deliver what is required with less modifications to the weapon and that is why it is my choice. Joe |
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Posted: 8/16/2004 7:21:42 AM EDT
[#18]
Autobahndriver, J-A-R,
Can we keep this thread strictly 6.8SPC information, and not yet another 6.5 vs 6.8 (vs 308 vs 5.56) debate? We certainly have no lack of those elsewhere. -z |
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Posted: 8/16/2004 8:27:26 AM EDT
[#19]
Zak
I'm using Remington primers. There was some flattening at the highest load only. How are you trimming the brass? I ordered a 30 Rem case holder and plan to use my Wilson case trimmer. Not sure if that will work. Other suggestions? Thanks for your info sheet also. Mark |
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Posted: 8/16/2004 8:39:16 AM EDT
[#20]
Markeagle,
I haven't tried the Remington primers yet. I couldn't find the Sierra 100gr in my modeling software, but I plugged in a 100gr Speer, and got results with 40fps of your chrono results. MAX pressure for this load will be around 30.2gr according to the model. You will almost certainly get better velocity and similar accuracy with less powder using RL10X. Don't go above about 28.7gr with the 100gr. For a case trimmer, I'm using my basic RCBS trimmer with the .270 insert. The real way to go in case trimmer is the Giraud Power Trimmer, which takes about 5 seconds per case. To make it work with 6.8SPC, you need to ream an insert with a 6.8 chamber reamer. I will eventually get one of these made up. -z |
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Posted: 8/17/2004 5:54:10 PM EDT
[#21]
Zak, have you played around with 130-140gr. bullets? Will the mags allow the heavier bullets?
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Posted: 8/17/2004 5:58:18 PM EDT
[#22]
JTChance,
The maximum over-all length a PRI mag will accept is a bit over 2.315" -- quite a bit longer than standard 223. I have shot a few 120gr Barnes X's, but I haven't played around with them very much. A short stubby 120-130gr bullet might work. The problem will be internal powder volume. I expect no more than maybe 2500fps from a 120-130gr bullet. -z |
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Posted: 8/17/2004 6:13:22 PM EDT
[#23]
I don't expect a lot of velocity. I can see as a good mild round for women and children for hunting. Kind of like the .260 Rem. or .243 Win.
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Posted: 8/17/2004 6:28:08 PM EDT
[#24]
Find some 100gr "X" Bullets. Barnes discontinued them 2 years ago, but you might be able to find some. They should have more than enough penetrative ability, and you won't lose any velocity over the standard loadings.
-z |
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Posted: 8/17/2004 6:37:03 PM EDT
[#25]
Zak,
I'm using Sierra and Hornady 110g bullets, not 100 Mark |
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Posted: 8/17/2004 6:38:58 PM EDT
[#26]
Mark,
You said 100gr in your previous post. Be very careful with what you're doing. You're probably close to max or over with some of those loads. -z |
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Posted: 8/17/2004 6:40:58 PM EDT
[#27]
Thanks Zak!
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Posted: 8/18/2004 10:31:45 AM EDT
[#28]
Zak,
I ordered some Reloder 10x from Powder Valley. $74 for 5 lbs, pretty decent price. Added some Remington primers since I was going to hit with Hazmat anyway. Mark |
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Posted: 8/20/2004 11:25:34 AM EDT
[#29]
From the "Remington Shoot" ballistic calculator (I downloaded the newest version and it includes 3 different rounds for the 6.8spc):
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Posted: 8/21/2004 7:32:19 AM EDT
[#30]
Zak,
I used the .30 Rem case holder and my Wilson case trimmer and trimmed the cases back. Reloder 10X due in Monday (10#) so I'll have plenty to load for a while. Would you have some loads for the 223 and 22-250 in 10X? Thanks for the info Mark |
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Posted: 8/21/2004 10:28:38 PM EDT
[#31]
So it looks like RemShoot has at least the MV and BC for this load.
Sorry, I don't reload .223 or 22-250, so no 10X data. |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 4:24:51 PM EDT
[#32]
What is the case head diameter of the 6.8? Thanks, Jim
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Posted: 8/22/2004 5:02:58 PM EDT
[#33]
Mine measure about 0.417"
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Posted: 8/23/2004 1:25:55 PM EDT
[#34]
Agreed, spamming 6.8 threads with Grendel Ads is kind of ridiculous and this is coming from someone who owns a Grendel.  |
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Posted: 8/23/2004 1:28:26 PM EDT
[#35]
The 115gr's will allegedly make at least 2820fps from an 18" barrel with the right powder (and it's not commercially available yet).
-z |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 7:17:03 AM EDT
[#36]
Has anyone thougth of wildcating the 6.8 down to a .224 bullet. I believe it would be popular with varmint hunters. It should have performance somewhere in between 223 and 22-250, while using an autoloading rifle.
How would I go about becoming the first to do this? It may sound strange, but I like having odd-ball stuff. I'd have to have a rifle chambered and have dies built. Can anyone out there point me in the right direction? JB |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 7:49:49 AM EDT
[#37]
JB,
You'd start with a .224 barrel and use a custom chamber reamer to ream it out for your wildcat. You may have to adjust the gas port size - I'm not sure. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 2:18:26 PM EDT
[#38]
JB:
Check with SSK Industries, at one time they talked about wildcating the 6.8 SPC. here is a link to their web site. SSK Industries |
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Posted: 8/25/2004 12:46:07 PM EDT
[#39]
Zak,
I'm working with the RL10X at the moment. I have a Pact dispenser and scale, so weighing each charge. Started with 25/25.5/26/26.5/27/27.5g. Using Hornady 110g V-Max. Where do you think max load is about? I am using a 20" upper from Model One Sales. Mark |
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Posted: 8/25/2004 12:53:17 PM EDT
[#40]
It will depend on your chamber, barrel, the particular brass you have (ie, if it's real 6.8 or .30/25 fireformed), and the OAL. Also make sure the bullet has sufficient jump to the lands at the OAL you use (it should probably be at LEAST 0.010").
If your chamber and barrel are similar to mine, and you use 2.285" or longer, I would step up to 27.0gr in 0.5 increments, and then go in small 0.2gr or 0.1gr increments from there up, looking for primer pressure signs. If you use Fed 210M primers, they will show cupping the soonest. The internal ballistics modeling software predicted max pressure at only 27.2gr RL10X -- use this as a hint. For my 18", if the velocity is over 2600fps and it's accurate, I'm happy. Once we get the new powders, we can go for max velocity. In the meantime, ruining a gun or getting hurt isn't worth it. -z EDIT: The pressure data from the simulation is here: www.demigod.org/~zak/firearms/6.8SPC/loads.php along with the actual load data. |
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Posted: 8/30/2004 7:11:09 AM EDT
[#41]
Zak,
All went well this weekend. Here is info, 90 degrees, very slight wind. 20" Model One Sales upper. Brass from Remington ammunition bought from PRI. Remington primers. Hornady 110g V-Max. All loads with Reloder 10X 25.0 2447 25.5 2520 26.0 2568 26.5 2645 27.0 2681 27.5 2721 28.0 2749 28.5 2788 Most primers were in good shape, occasional flattening but not more than 2 out of 5 cases. The 28.5 seem fine. I liked the groups from the 27-27.5 range best, and will probably move to that area. Trying around 2675-2725fps. Mark |
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Posted: 8/30/2004 3:43:22 PM EDT
[#42]
Mark,
I never got the Remington primers to crater even with my nuclear-should-have-blown-up-the-gun loads. Buy a 100-pack of Fed 210M for comparison. They will show pressure signs much sooner. In other words, be careful. -z |
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Posted: 8/31/2004 3:40:45 PM EDT
[#43]
A heads up, if you don't know already. Midway now has 6.8SPC brass available in 20,100,1000 pieces.
Hot damn! 
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Posted: 8/31/2004 8:24:50 PM EDT
[#44]
Excellent! Thanks for the tip. 2k inbound!
-z |
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Posted: 9/1/2004 4:14:09 PM EDT
[#45]
Yes, thanks. I ordered 1000 cases too. The site indicated late October, but then ina few minutes I got a email saying they had shipped the cases. Very nice indeed.
Mark |
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Posted: 9/2/2004 2:33:32 AM EDT
[#46]
Been waiting just as long for the 6.8SPC to take off. |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 9:24:43 AM EDT
[#47]
Zak, Markeagle, Have you guys received the 6.8 brass from Midway yet?
I called them the same day as the post listed above, and they showed in the computer that there was lots in stock, but they checked the stock and found they had none. They also checked through for any orders and could not locate any. As an aside, their computer showed they had 100 boxes of the 100 piece brass, but when I attempted to order "on line" it showed (on the order form page) that the brass was "not in stock- backorder ok". That is why I called them to see if they really had any. Midway did this a few month's ago on there "sale page" that they had the 6.8 brass on sale, but after calling them, they found they had none and wiped out all referrnces to same. This time they indicated that they were doing some sort of an upgrade and that may have caused the program to show that they had some of the brass. So let us know if you have (or do get) any of the brass. If you do then that indicates they sold a hell of a lot of the brass the first day they put it on ther site (like several tens of thousands of rounds). Thanks, Art |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 9:28:59 AM EDT
[#48]
s_s74,
When I submitted my order on the night of the 31st, it said 2 cases of 1000 pieces were in stock, and I grabbed those two. I have a tracking number for a 39.80 lb package to be delivered on the 7th, so we'll see what I get ?! I think your last scenario is likely. -z |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 9:31:28 AM EDT
[#49]
By the way, anybody know what" 6.8mm Rem SPC Improved 40-Degree Shoulder" is?
www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/123285 Has somebody wildcatted the SPC already? -z |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 10:01:49 AM EDT
[#50]
Zak, Good God Gerty! Widener's also had some of the 6.8 brass and someone (or some company)
got all of theirs in one day! So you must be one of the lucky one's that got to Midway's supply in time. Congrats' Art |
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