I have been a member here for a long time, been sick for several years so I just don’t even log in and just read. But, all of you are a wealth of information, and I would like to ask some questions. Some maybe dumb, some maybe not. You decide, and only answer what you wish.

Why does it seem to me that a lot of people are abandoning most of their optics to go for a lpvo, are they really that good and we just now noticed it?

Why does the search for the ideal optic for me seem never ending? As soon as I think I am happy with what I have someone shows me a flaw in my thinking and it starts all over.

I love a lot of optics, red dots, prisms, scopes, but dang can’t afford hardly much anymore.

Why are common little mounts as much as some optics?

As soon as I find an optic I love it is nt long my eyes keep getting worse and worse causing me to not stay happy with chosen optic very long.lol

How in the world do you make sense of it all, I would love to have a nice red dot for the house, astigmatism or not. But, that doesn’t work very well when I want to shoot out to 300yds, and do I dial an lpvo or just look through the acog.

Really, the truth of it all is , I love them all, but to truly find what is perfect for my uses is impossible and constantly changing.I always find another reason to want something else. And depending on where it is made changes the prices so dramatically I am lucky to have a a toothpick stuck to the end of my barrel with bubblegum.I sure wish it was easier to find that ideal optic, but I am lost and can’t afford to play anymore. My eyesight gets worse by the day, scopes are constantly changing. What happened to the scopes for a few years ago that you didn’t need a forklift to pick up and look through and you could afford to take home and put on your rifle and just have a blast of a day plinking because it didn’t lose zero everytime you sat it down.  Not complaining,,, just can never find something I truly believe in to work when you need it, and  I can afford without selling my truck to buy.

Honestly?  I’ve found you see this a lot more with people who spend more time playing around with their guns at home than actually shooting them out on the range.  

Not meant as a dig, but when you spend a lot of time shooting, you know what your needs are, have identified any potential weaknesses preventing you from meeting those needs, and probably have a good idea what you need to change to get there.

When you’re just fiddling around at home or on forums, you get lost in the theoretical, second guessing what you thought you knew.  

Just my $0.02.

Thanks a lot, it is true I rarely can ever feel good enough or get a chance to get to a range, so I spend a lot of time just looking at what is in front, makes good sense. Thanks.

As of now, I have five 5.56 guns ranging from 10.5" to 20" in barrel length.  One 20" is an M-16 clone with carry handle/fsb, the other 20" has a 2.5-15, the 16" has an LPVO 1-6x, the 14.5 P/W has a red dot with a 3x magnifier, and the 10.5 sports a prism with a piggyback mrds.

And that is just the 5.56 guns.

WTF does "making sense" have to do with anything

But, seriously, define the mission and the rest will fall into place.

Find what works for your eyes. I have astigmatism so I don’t like single red dots, Eotech works for my eyes but I like LPVO’s that use an Eotech style reticle like the credo and VCOG from Trijicon. Getting behind a gun and finding out are you someone who wants a simple clean crosshair or dot or do you need all the extra things? Like the previous posts you’ll learn more by actually getting behind the gun. I hope your illness gets better.

Cause we’re all old boomers now and our eyes suck.

Kinda like the PA 1x micro prism, but just can’t quite get that red dot clears, but I gotta a friend that says his is. , and my next endeavor with a Burris rt6 just can’t get that thing clear on 1x, it’s kickin my reared.I am convinced I am somewhere between cross eyed and blind.I don’t think they make a focus ring for my eyes. When they come out with glasses for bats I think I will get in line.Lol

I'm going to go with this.  I've had the same Eotech's for years & years, & have the same AP's & a few Sig redots.  I'm happy with all of them & until they don't work, I'll continue to use them. Maybe something new & improved will benefit me, but optics are $$, rather buy ammo.

What do I like/want in an optic?

1. Hold zero.
2. Be reliable.
3. Crisp daylight bright dot in reticle, with or without ranging/drop features as appropriate for the type of optic.
4. Auto on/off or battery life over a year with easy adjustment of illumination and easy battery swaps.
5. Allows me the shoot to the precision limits of the platform.
6. Lightweight for what it is.
7. Allows me to shoot in any reasonable lighting condition or position.
8. Has crisp and predictable elevation/windage adjustments with appropriate features.
9. Has great optics that have as little tint or distortion as possible.
10. Reasonable price.

That's it.

For a handgun, shotgun, or subgun that is a red dot.
For a rifle, that is a low power scope, usually second focal plane.
For a precision rifle, that is a high power precision scope. Usually front focal plane.

Easy.

If you want a sub 4 MOA capable weapon out to 200 you want a red dot.

If you want sub 2 MOA accuracy to 300, you just want an LPVO.

If you want sub MOA accuracy at 300+ you want a precision scope.

As far as ACOGs... the TA31 has too short of eye relief. If you can live with that short eye relief it is otherwise great. The TA11 has great eye relief, it just has too little magnification and weighs as much as a lightweight LPVO. If you can live with 3.5x it is great. Compact ACOGs have too little magnification and/or field of view. The 6x48 ACOG is too heavy, expensive, or low powered for anything but a belt fed.

No optic is perfect... yet. I have several optics that I am happy with.

Leupold Delta Point Pro on a braced CP33. I get a bigger window than a T2, almost no tint, zero optical distortion, low weight, and a crisp dot. It let's me shoot to the limit of what an offhand semi auto .22 rimfire pistol can. I can shoot 2" groups at 50 yards from a rest. The illumination control being one button sucks and it is fragile... but this is a plastic .22 lr handgun for fun and rodent shooting, not a duty pistol.

For something more reliable, I have a Trijicon SRO on a Glock 17. Little more tint and glass distortion that the Deltapoint Pro but it is more durable, sits lower, and has better illumination controls with 2 buttons. Makes head shots at 25y easy. Makes torso shots at 50y easy.

Have a Leupold VX5HD 1-5x Firedot on a 300 BLK SBR duty rifle. Just over 14oz is light! No reticle stadia marks, but has locking BDC elevation turret for holds out to 300y. Leupold one button illumination control sucks again is the only real negative outside of no reticle hashes.

Leupold Mark5HD 3.6-18×44 with Tremor 3 on a precision AR. Only negative is the illumination sucks and the reticle needs to be at 7x to use the ranging features easily.

For a small red dot, the Aimpoint T2 is just about perfect. It is just too expensive, so the majority of my red dots are still T1s due to the price to upgrade more than one. Still, the T2 is essentially perfect for what it is, if you discount price. No current scope is "perfect" outside of price. They all have at least one drawback and often 2 or 3.

Why are optic mounts so expensive? Up to about $200 for scope mounts and $125 for red dot mounts, they are worth it due to engineering and machining costs (for minimizing weight while maintaining perfect precision) reliable QD systems, accessory mounting features, or actual material choice (titanium or 7075/2000 series aluminum vs steel or 6061 aluminum). Past about $200, low production volume or marketing is why some optics mounts are so expensive. Cheap mounts are cheap for a reason, but if you don't need light weight or extra features a cheap and heavy 6061 mount with steel bolts can serve you just fine for under $100.

As for your eyes with astigmatism.  I got laser vision correction. LASEK. It is a PRK variant vs. a LASIK variant. Best money I ever spent on optics. Paid $4000. Totally worth it. Modeen LASIK is much cheaper and faster recovery if you are the right candidate.

Another old retired guy who’s hobby for decades has been firearms, shooting and reloading.   As I get older I do less shooting with centerfire but still shoot a lot of rimfire at my house.   My firearms are tools and are set up for specific task.   I have AR-15’s with RDS, LPVO, and magnified optics.   I also have defensive orientated shotguns and hunting shotguns.   I have defensive and recreational handguns.   Many firearms I’ve owned a long time but I’m still interested in the hobby.   I have a couple grandsons who are interested in shooting and I enjoy shooting with them.   I don’t have any real expensive optics but what I have work for their intended use.

I’ve never owned an LPVO, so I thought I’d pick one up to see what all the fuss was about.

That was like 8 months ago and I still haven’t used it. I like my ACOG/RMR combo too much.

There is no perfect optic accept that first and then move on.  Every optic out there is going to have strengths and weaknesses also some are compromises.  LPVO's are a lot of compromises to gain advantages elsewhere it is just how it goes.  LPVO's traditionally do not have parallax adjustment and it is fixed at a specific range.  They offer variable magnification from 1-4x up to 1-10x and the higher you go in the magnification the tighter the eye box gets and less forgiving.  Over prisms they usually offer more magnification and the ability to use 1x.  Even in LPVO's they are not all created equally and to be honest some up straight up crap, some a really good, some are a waste of money, and so on.  What usually drives people to LPVO's over prism or traditional scopes is that 1x with the ability to go to higher magnification.  My opinion is if you are getting a LPVO 1-6x is kind of the sweet spot, 1-8x is pushing it because you are getting a tighter eye box/darker image, and 1-10x is nice to have that 10x but it is very unforgiving if you are off just a bit getting behind it.  If I were doing a 1-8/10x it would be FFP and I would use the 8-10x for observation\"precision" shots and when I need to be faster at distance use the 6x just so I am not fighting with the ocular end to get the just right eye relief and squared up behind the optic.  
If I had to choose an optic or optic setup as my all around this is what I am stuck with no other choice to do all I would get something around the 2-10x with a red dot for close shooting.  2x is totally doable for up close shooting, 10x can get you out really far especially if you are 5.56, and over all they are far less compromises than LPVO's.  Do not get me wrong LPVO's have a place but most people get into one without knowing their limitations and compromises then bitch when it does not do X as good as another optic or Y as good as this red dot.  LPVO's are not great at anything but they are good or useable at multiple things which is why they exist.

I pretty well agree with this, and I've sure been guilty of falling for what's hot right now.

For my practical purposes, I find LPVO better suits my actual uses better than a Dot or Prism. I've never needed a rifle for an inside the home defense scenario, but I have needed a rifle quickly for dispatching varmints and variable magnification is ideal for that because sometimes that's a 25 yard shot and sometimes it's 150. Less practically speaking, before the boating accident, I had rifles/optics for quite the variety of possible situations.

I feel part of the LPVO craze is that technology/manufacturing techniques have improved to the point that a few hundred dollar China scope is clear, reliable, and there's a TON more reticle options than what's available in a dot. Most recently I purchased a Primary Arms 1-6x and I really like the ACSS Aurora Reticle.

I like my red dot and 3x magnifier, but not in love with it.  If I had to carry it all day, I would look for a simpler/lighter solution.  For a HD rifle it works.  God bless you who have to carry an AR all day.

I’d like to see some drop tests done on those China scopes to see just how reliable they are.


I like the PA prisms but not sure how reliable they are outside of range use.

Plenty of people have done some absurd abuse tests on variations of different scopes Chicom, Pilipino, Japanese, American, and German.  Few videos I have watched guys have thrown their scopes up into the air as high as they can throw them and let them hit the ground.  Modern scopes are fairly durable my Vortex Viper PA I had it fall off my friends lifted truck on a dirt/rock road and hit objective/turret first.  Never lost zero and barely left a few scratches on the finish that are hardly noticeable.  I have also while running tripped and landed on my rifle skidding across the ground of spend shells, rocks, grass, and dirt and Viper PST2 1-6x.  It fucked the throw lever and scratched the scope turret cap but never lost zero or damaged the optic I think I was more busted us than any of the equipment.

There’s some out there. Some break but not many. Really depends on the testing. There’s that one creepy guy that drops everything on AR500 steel but he’s a total shill for Vector Arms.

The common theme is zero loss though. Usually not mechanical in the optic but from the optic moving in the mount. Supposedly this is why the Geissele mounts have become so highly regarded in the SOF communities.

My favorite set up for a general purpose 5.56 is a prism with a MRDS. I tend to like shooting off hand at various distances though which heavily influences my preferences. It took me many years to find a combo I liked so much but I’m never going to close the book on trying new configurations.

@JustaFigment

Check out this video from deltathirtyfour. I'd advise watching it more than once, as it's very densely full of information.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL3MJvmDmvE&t=1s&ab_channel=deltathirtyfour