I’d like to see any other brand that has been on the hook for $3.1+ billion and 3.15 million engines….

If they had fixed their issues they wouldn’t be replacing multiple engines on the same vehicle.

I remember when Kia’s were buy one get one half price!

Hell, I own two Kia and a Ford 6.0. I like to live dangerously.

Name one.

I remember when Nissans were Buy One Get One Free.

I have a soft spot in my heart for those silly little Souls.

My daughters 1st car, and within a matter of a month was involved in two accidents (neither her fault) and she escaped without a scratch. The other people and their cars were not so lucky.

I know a lot probably had to do with the impact angle, but they are solid cars.

I may even buy her a new one for her college graduation present.

I have owned a Hyundai Sonata. I drove it for 14 years-put nearly 300000 miles on it and sold it to my son for $1000. It was well maintained and in good condition but high miles. He drove it for 5 years sold it for $1500 and bought a new Hyundai Sonata. My youngest bought a newer used Hyundai (2019) and my daughter bought an Electra. All run well and have been great cars. Prior to my Hyundai I always owned Oldsmobiles. I loved my Olds but they got to 200k and the transmission died and they were dead. I currently have a 2017 Jeep it has about 150k miles on it. I have been thinking of buying a newer used Hyundai Sonata and keeping my jeep for play.

The engine knock issue is good for a lifetime warranty on the engine.

I think the metal fragment issue was dealt with years ago.

The bigger problem with many of these engines is oil consumption.  If your vehicle uses MORE THAN one quart of oil/1000 miles you are in a good position to get a new engine.  This has to be diagnosed and approved before the 100,000 mark.

Here's the difference between KM multiple engine settlements, the Toyota issue noted,  along with most of the other "similar problems" every mfg has.


NHSTA Investigation, Record Fines, Consent Decrees, a Whislteblower who was awarded $24M for revealing KM's slow roll of the issues, the acknowledgment and the remedy action. NwG notes a number,  but the total number of engines covered by various settlement/recalls/CDs is a bit over 13M since 2010.  

A better comparison to Toyotas Denso and LPFP issues is KM's HECU brake recall. Roughly the same impacted, but KM will be out of pocket a good bit more and KM issued  a "Park Outside Warning" since the vehicle may spontaneously combust.

The closest Toyota issue to use would be the 2AZ-FE oil consumption/head stud issues, which were remedied within 2 years and impacted less than  1/20th the units KM has finally covered. Toyotas  LSC ZE7 Service Campaign was voluntary and not the result of Gov't legal action. But I realize why you chose the Denso CAS since it compared well in length to KMs similar, but longer period of engine failures. But it's a relatively minor issue compared to engines given the huge consumer end cost disparity and safety outcomes.

Regardless there are two mfg interludes which would be fair to compare to the legal jeopardy, fines, surrounding sanctions and general reputational cost borne by KM. The first was GM ignition switch fiasco which cost 124 people their lives. This is obviously the most reprehensible situation in the last 50 years, but the BK, US Govt ownership of significant GM stock  and traditional close ties between Detroit and Washington blunted the in investigation and response. GM was eventually fined $35M but also forfeited/surrendered @ $1.5B in penalties and victim compensation. Probably bit rough in comparison, tho KM was unresponsive and continues to face claims settlement agreements are being breached. The loss of public trust has been similar, tho both continue to have their adherents as we've seen here.

We'll see if anyone can point put the other.

Ford Pinto?

You could always buy one that has a sombrero on the front. They seem quite popular.

LOL, my 2005 Hyundai Santa Fe with 215,000 miles says “fuck you” to all the naysayers here…

A friend owns a first gen and that thing has been treated rough as hell.

Thing just goes and goes.


All the Korean cabbies run kia's.

Crack pipe.

I would be happy with a 292 straight 6 with modern systems.

We’re talking about bargain vehicles built to be the cheapest new car you can get off the lot. Those kinds of vehicles have never been good. We look back fondly on the vehicles with a reputation for reliability…because they are still around. The cheap pieces of junk you have forgotten about were turned into razor blades many years ago.

Who the devil is paying $38 for 5 quarts of Mobil 1?

Never giving up my 2001 RAV4.

So, when you buy one of those cars ...

Pull the engine out and clean out the block yourself.



While you're at it put in some properly tensioned rings that control the oil and add an oil/air *seperator* in the PCV line.

Is anyone selling aftermarket bearings that are grooved or something like that alleviate this problem?  

It would seem to be a decent A/B test to get some decent data on the problem.

The 90s and early 2000s were the best for longevity. Honda, Toyota, BMW, and Mercedes were making cars good for 300k or more. Subaru could have been a part of this if they hadn't bored the reliable 2.2 into a 2.5 without expanding the head surface area.

A few months ago I rented a Hyundai suv in Pittsburgh. When I picked it up I thought I heard a slight knock. By the end of the week the knock progressively became worse but it would still come and go. On the way to the airport to head home it got real bad and it started throwing codes and died on me twice. When I got back to the rental car return I told the guy that there was something bad wrong with the car. He said he could see the engine codes on his handheld computer thing and let the mechanic know.

I havent read all the comments, but imo id go with their 10k oil change recommendations as my wife owns a newer sante fe.   I know some people swear by 10k+ mile oil changes, but I don't.  Wife gets free oil changes but its every 10k miles.  So every other 5k miles, I do an oil change.

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And damn quick. Both impacted public trust similarly, tho many aspects weren't similar.  In Fords case there was no rear or side impact safety standard FMVSS, only a front test. So most of the activity was civil action and national public media scrutiny, which hardly exist any longer. Ford also only had 1.5M Pintos and Bobcats to contend with. It was more a public pressure thing.  The CBA that was noted in Indiana and Grimshaw trials had little to do with the Pinto/Bobcat. Ford's awareness tho, of defects and its intransigence proved costly in court - legal and public opinion. Tho we bitch, Federal Regulatory Environment  was pretty ineffective at ensuring safety at the time, even after the defect came to light. Much of what we now experience in the NHSTA system evolved from that debacle.

You could make a case for Toyota Unintended Acceleration issues. Contrasting the treatment of Toyota's investigation and GMs Ignition Switch  indicates much.

technically plenty do but they might need modification

Look for stuff made for the Mitsubishi 4B11 in the EVOs

Neither Hyundai or Kia makes a vehicle that interests me in looks or performance/$. I haven't cross shopped because of that, but is there even a big enough gap between their pricing and Honda/Toyota/Mazda to make it worth the gamble? I do think some of the Genesis brand look good. I'd hope that they are built to a higher standard though.

For a small commuter car, generally yes, it's worth it on a new one.  We have two 2016s, having traded in Fatalwishes' one, and my MIL is on her second one.  We'll see how they hold up in the long run but so far, other than the trunk latches, they're doing pretty well.

Maybe cause they're garbage?

After being stolen and driven like hell and then eventually being is a police chase who would expect them to survive after that abuse?