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Posted: 5/5/2024 1:20:13 PM EDT
Back in the Old Days we had doctors, and when something was wrong with you that doctor either treated it, or if it was beyond his skill level he would help you find a specialist and work with that specialist.
Nowadays, we have Primary Care Physicians (PCPs), who are mainly gatekeepers and do little more than send you to specialists. If you're unfortunate enough to have more than one condition, you end up with multiple specialists. Those specialists almost never coordinate with each other (or your PCP), so it's up to you (with no medical training) to somehow bridge that gap and manage your own medical care. YOU have to figure out which specialist should deal with specific issues that come up, and go see that specialist (after waiting 3 weeks or more for an app't). Often that specialist will not be able to deal with your issue and will send you somewhere else. The frustration begins to run deep. Then there are the Physician Assistants (PAs) that more and more doctors are using nowadays to allow their office to churn more patients through and make more profits. Most don't know shit from a good grade of apple butter, and end up aggravating the situation. Finally, your problem gets so bad you go to the ER. There you start all over and often get admitted and spend a week (and lots of $$) in a room with tubes and wires hooked up to you. And your odds of getting well ... ? Are we Canada now? England? India? There's GOT to be a better way. 
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Posted: 5/5/2024 1:23:13 PM EDT
[#1]
The good news is pretty soon AI will be able to diagnose and come of with more personal treatment plans. You'll only need to get MRI, X-ray, blood work ect. AI will likely eventually be better at diagnosing and treating people than most doctors as well.
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Posted: 5/5/2024 1:26:18 PM EDT
[#2]
Op is correct
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GA, USA
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Posted: 5/5/2024 1:28:27 PM EDT
[#3]
Sounds like you expect your GP to do heart surgery too?
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USA
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Posted: 5/5/2024 1:28:57 PM EDT
[#4]
OP nailed it. It's a fucking shit show now and it will only get worse.
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MI, USA
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Posted: 5/5/2024 1:32:19 PM EDT
[#5]
Food is medicine, for most things. Avoid doctors like the plague.
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Posted: 5/5/2024 1:33:39 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HangfiresGhost: Sounds like you expect your GP to do heart surgery too? |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 1:34:35 PM EDT
[#7]
Guess im an outlier. I’ve never had a problem with my PCP, getting sent to a back specialist, or having any of my bills paid by insurance. My wife was in the hospital for 7 days from back surgery. About 1.5mm. Just got an EOB and that’s it. Oh, well. I’m sure our turn will come.
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 5/5/2024 1:34:59 PM EDT
[#8]
There's nothing stopping you from hiring an old school doctor, it will cost you $100/mo or less.
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Posted: 5/5/2024 1:36:05 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DetroitSounds: Food is medicine, for most things. Avoid doctors like the plague.  All fine and good till that big MI happens. Then what? |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/5/2024 1:38:43 PM EDT
[#10]
I like Brazil where I was paying $8 a month for the family and all doctors, dentist and eye doctors were in one place.
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CAN
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Posted: 5/5/2024 1:42:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Prezboi44]
[#11]
Yes, OP, there is a better way. Get competition back in the system and break the levers of power - networks of medical companies and personnel that work together against other providers with tying agreements.
The patient is now a guaranteed commodity thanks to a bunch of legislation in effect that's like shooting fish in a barrel. Tens of thousands of pages of legislation as a weapon to drive out competition, guarantee profits and to keep the field very unequal according to size and power of providers. This is what Washington DC does to its constituents. It legally rigs everything and monetizes it. |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 1:43:36 PM EDT
[#12]
My Doc ( Internal Medicine) is outstanding. He IS the gatekeeper and in the system he works for he has a LOT of stroke. I can get almost any procedure/x-ray/CT scan and more in a heartbeat. It's almost as if they are WAITING for customers. We're VERY rural and I may have to drive a bit to get to the specialist I'm referred too but that's fine with me. I've had nothing but good results since I moved to this Dr. My old Doc (internal medicine) retired and told me "find an internal medicine guy" and he was correct. My system uses "MyChart" as the information system. In most cases my results etc. are ALREADY in my inbox by the time I get home from any visit with any Doc in the system. I can't believe how good Medicare is. I certainly don't understand how we , as a country, can afford it.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/5/2024 1:43:45 PM EDT
[#13]
Seems like OP's vaccination is wearing off. Time for a booster?
 Generally agree. YOU are your best resource. With 20 minute office visits, there just isn't time for your PCP to research and discuss everything. You need to do the research in advance (spend hours online reading) so you can bring some notes to your office visit and make the most of your 20 minutes. One thing that has gotten MUCH better in recent decades is that you can now look at all your lab results online as soon as the lab releases them. In the old days, the patient would not even know what was tested. You would just get a "Labs looked okay". Or, worse yet, you would get the "If you don't hear anything from us, you can assume the lab work was okay." In reality, maybe nobody even looked at the lab report. |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 1:46:24 PM EDT
[#14]
As a former PCP, you're only half wrong. There's plenty I can handle. But there's plenty who demand a specialist, or who need to go once or twice a year and need a referral from me due to insurance.
Patients are half the problem too. Don't do anything to help themselves (lose weight, exercise, stop smoking, etc) and expect a pill to fix things...which of course doesn't happen. Then gripe about the treatment, and often aren't that compliant anyway. Or they come in for literally everything. Runny nose for a day. Rash after playing in poison ivy. Sunburns. Back pain after shoveling the driveway on the first day of snow. "I'm going on vacation and want to make sure I won't get sick." So, yeah, we send some packing to someone else- because when we have 15 minute appointments, and you have 4 medical conditions that each deserve 15 minutes, it just doesn't work. To top if off, billing you an level 3 might get us $50 compensation, despite you taking 30 minutes of our time. Kind of hard to run a business on $100/hr, ya know? We have to make that up with quick visits, like an ear infection, or a UTI- but they usually go to the urgent care, cuz the office is clogged with the chronically unwell. Believe me, there's 2 sides to every story. If you don't like the game, don't play. Darwin will take care of things. |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 1:53:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DasRonin]
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By victorgonzales: The good news is pretty soon AI will be able to diagnose and come of with more personal treatment plans. You'll only need to get MRI, X-ray, blood work ect. AI will likely eventually be better at diagnosing and treating people than most doctors as well. Right up until AI euthanize you because it could be terminal ailment and/or cost the health system too much to keep the elderly or infirm alive! |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 1:54:00 PM EDT
[#16]
All of ARFCOM has THE one and only solution for health care problems. If I was in the position to fix this mess, I could do it in a day! No more co-pays! Free RX! Your Dr will solve all your problems, or they get canned! You pay what you want to! I’m a big wig in whatever industry you’re in, I can fix the health care system! I can solve anything! This place kills me sometimes…
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 5/5/2024 1:55:25 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NotIssued: We have to make that up with quick visits, like an ear infection, or a UTI- but they usually go to the urgent care, cuz the office is clogged with the chronically unwell. We use an app for patient communication, the last UTI patient sent a text at around 8 PM, it took about 15 minutes to order labs and a prescription for the next day. The lab bill came it at $179 so we called and got it reduced to $27.84 (STAT was half that price), marked it up 10% and sent it to the patient. Patient and her husband spend $140/mo for this service. |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 1:56:16 PM EDT
[#18]
Yes, of course. There should be some benevolent entity that takes care of you from cradle to grave. People spend months researching which new toaster or car to buy but can't be bothered with their own health.
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Posted: 5/5/2024 2:02:00 PM EDT
[#19]
OP sounds like every other patient that is allergic to everything but that one that starts with a D.
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Posted: 5/5/2024 2:04:53 PM EDT
[#20]
 We are beyond blessed to live in the most medically advance age in human history. I give OP 0/10. |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 2:06:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Banshee35]
[#21]
Originally Posted By MikefromTX: Then there are the Physician Assistants (PAs) that more and more doctors are using nowadays to allow their office to churn more patients through and make more profits. Most don't know shit from a good grade of apple butter, and end up aggravating the situation. Yeah, we suck! And then just imagine, you’re seen in the ER by another PA and then one like me comes along and admits you to the hospital and makes sure you don’t die during the night and then another PA manages you during the day. I know my place and my role and the vast majority of things can be managed by a PA and the key is knowing when you reach the limits of your knowledge and training and when to ask for help. And Medicare helps drive the use of midlevels by cutting reimbursement and not like med school is getting cheaper or malpractice insurance costs going down. But it’s all about profits and patient care be damned right?
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MI, USA
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Posted: 5/5/2024 2:06:41 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bronsonburner: All fine and good till that big MI happens. Then what? Yup, hence why I said most things. Fingers crossed I won't have to answer then what. I've seen some serious shit with close family member deaths and a family of nurses. |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 2:06:45 PM EDT
[#23]
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USA
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Posted: 5/5/2024 2:07:38 PM EDT
[#24]
If you are not capable of directing your own health care today you are fucked. The system is broken. You PCP just wants to check your blood work and ask some general questions. If you need care beyond that you are on your own to pick out specialists and review the results.
I f-ed around with these jokers for far to long. I had to take the initiative and dictate the treatment options that I thought best. Once I did that things started progressing. I am a fairly well educated individual. I don't have any clue how the rest of society like the elderly get half the care that they need. |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 2:08:03 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HIMARS13A: We use an app for patient communication, the last UTI patient sent a text at around 8 PM, it took about 15 minutes to order labs and a prescription for the next day. The lab bill came it at $179 so we called and got it reduced to $27.84 (STAT was half that price), marked it up 10% and sent it to the patient. Patient and her husband spend $140/mo for this service. And that's great. Telehealth should be used more. However, insurances vary on how they reimburse. Many won't pay for a doc answering emails, so many won't order labs or prescribe without a visit. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 5/5/2024 2:08:27 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kallnojoy: Swing and a miss. Wrong. |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 2:10:55 PM EDT
[#27]
Not one person has yet given their well defined, silver bullet solution yet. In past threads I’ve read posts saying, if we the healthcare industry just did this ONE simple thing, our problems would be solved!
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 5/5/2024 2:11:01 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NotIssued: And that's great. Telehealth should be used more. However, insurances vary on how they reimburse. Many won't pay for a doc answering emails, so many won't order labs or prescribe without a visit. Which is why we don't take insurance of any kind, or do coding of any kind. The problem we have is that people feel that insurance is a kind of prepaid health care card, when it's simply not. |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 2:12:51 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TODD-67: If you are not capable of directing your own health care today you are fucked. The system is broken. You PCP just wants to check your blood work and ask some general questions. If you need care beyond that you are on your own to pick out specialists and review the results. I f-ed around with these jokers for far to long. I had to take the initiative and dictate the treatment options that I thought best. Once I did that things started progressing. I am a fairly well educated individual. I don't have any clue how the rest of society like the elderly get half the care that they need. Sounds like you set those joker Doctors straight and showed them a thing or two! |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 2:12:59 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1245xx: Not one person has yet given their well defined, silver bullet solution yet. In past threads I’ve read posts saying, if we the healthcare industry just did this ONE simple thing, our problems would be solved! Problem is too complex for a simple solution, involves medical,insurance,legal system, too much money involved |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 5/5/2024 2:13:44 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1245xx: Not one person has yet given their well defined, silver bullet solution yet. In past threads I’ve read posts saying, if we the healthcare industry just did this ONE simple thing, our problems would be solved! Frankly no one has the perspective to know how to fix everything. I know how primary care could be fixed, but I don't know how to mitigate the effect that would have on hospitals. Similarly, I know that PBMs are bad, but I don't know how prices would be set in their absence. I know that subsidiarity should be the principal used to determine site specific reimbursement, that is to say everything should be done at the lowest competent level. You don't need to go to the ED for stitches when primary care can do it, and you don't need outpatient procedures don't in a hospital when an ASC can do it. But tying it all together? No one person can articulate all of it. |
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MS, USA
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Posted: 5/5/2024 2:14:27 PM EDT
[#32]
I'm glad I read here recently the cynical remarks why an mri costs much less down the road
I'm scheduled for a CT with contrast. Made a few phone calls to try and find someone who could tell me how much it's going to cost me with high deductible insurance. That should be much easier to do than it is. What I did learn is that BCBS of MS doesn't have the same rates they pay for a specific service like a CT scan with contrast. Certain providers have been able to negotiate higher prices with the insurance company and pass that that higher profit margin on to me the customer. Get the billing code info from the doctors referral and make a few competitive price quotes from other providers you're willing to consider to see if you can save any money. I did this and will have saved about 60%. |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 2:16:06 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Stutzmech: Problem is too complex for a simple solution, involves medical,insurance,legal system, too much money involved Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Stutzmech: Originally Posted By 1245xx: Not one person has yet given their well defined, silver bullet solution yet. In past threads I’ve read posts saying, if we the healthcare industry just did this ONE simple thing, our problems would be solved! Problem is too complex for a simple solution, involves medical,insurance,legal system, too much money involved And you’re right. I’ve seen many on here not acknowledge that and say they know how to fix “the system “, can do it PDQ, and yet know nothing about it. |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 2:18:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JamesJones]
[#34]
If you have a trauma type injury it's pretty great these days but if you are sick or have a chronic thing it definitely sucks.
Edit Money is the factor here like mentioned |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 2:18:19 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wildfowler: I'm glad I read here recently the cynical remarks why an mri costs much less down the road I'm scheduled for a CT with contrast. Made a few phone calls to try and find someone who could tell me how much it's going to cost me with high deductible insurance. That should be much easier to do than it is. What I did learn is that BCBS of MS doesn't have the same rates they pay for a specific service like a CT scan with contrast. Certain providers have been able to negotiate higher prices with the insurance company and pass that that higher profit margin on to me the customer. Get the billing code info from the doctors referral and make a few competitive price quotes from other providers you're willing to consider to see if you can save any money. I did this and will have saved about 60%. Just got one of those a couple of days ago, they bill insurance about 4 to 5 thousand, then insurance says they will pay half, then they bill and start negotiating and fighting each other, luckily I get left out of it |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 2:20:13 PM EDT
[#36]
Don't blame the doctors. Most of them probably wish they could spend more time with their patients, and take care of ALL their patients' problems.
Blame government and insurance companies who have (as the guy from Caunkistan that just joined three weeks ago said) turned patients from people into product. I've told this story before: I needed an MRI. The imaging center worked through my insurance company, so I wasn't out of network or anything like that. My cost for the MRI was going to be more than my annual out-of-pocket, which was $2,500. So I was going to be stuck with a bill for $2.5k. My surgeon's office called a different MRI center, one that worked on a cash-only basis. My cost from them was $365. Tell me why a procedure that cost $365 when paid with cash, cost $2.5k when "covered" by my insurance company? |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 2:20:57 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HIMARS13A: Frankly no one has the perspective to know how to fix everything. I know how primary care could be fixed, but I don't know how to mitigate the effect that would have on hospitals. Similarly, I know that PBMs are bad, but I don't know how prices would be set in their absence. I know that subsidiarity should be the principal used to determine site specific reimbursement, that is to say everything should be done at the lowest competent level. You don't need to go to the ED for stitches when primary care can do it, and you don't need outpatient procedures don't in a hospital when an ASC can do it. But tying it all together? No one person can articulate all of it. I can see that. It’s a myriad of issues that could be addressed by those in the healthcare industry, not Mac the mechanic or Sam from customer service. |
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NZL
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Posted: 5/5/2024 2:23:36 PM EDT
[#38]
Originally Posted By MikefromTX: Back in the Old Days we had doctors, and when something was wrong with you that doctor either treated it, or if it was beyond his skill level he would help you find a specialist and work with that specialist. Nowadays, we have Primary Care Physicians (PCPs), who are mainly gatekeepers and do little more than send you to specialists. If you're unfortunate enough to have more than one condition, you end up with multiple specialists. Those specialists almost never coordinate with each other (or your PCP), so it's up to you (with no medical training) to somehow bridge that gap and manage your own medical care. YOU have to figure out which specialist should deal with specific issues that come up, and go see that specialist (after waiting 3 weeks or more for an app't). Often that specialist will not be able to deal with your issue and will send you somewhere else. The frustration begins to run deep. Then there are the Physician Assistants (PAs) that more and more doctors are using nowadays to allow their office to churn more patients through and make more profits. Most don't know shit from a good grade of apple butter, and end up aggravating the situation. Finally, your problem gets so bad you go to the ER. There you start all over and often get admitted and spend a week (and lots of $$) in a room with tubes and wires hooked up to you. And your odds of getting well ... ? Are we Canada now? England? India? There's GOT to be a better way. Since the 70's the average lifespan for Men in the USA has increased by over a decade, part of that has been due to improving lifestyle choices, but a good chunk of that has been because of improving medical care - in the 70's your local doc would diagnose bowel cancer as indigestion, give you antacids and send you home to happily die. Yes, the current system is more inconvenient, but how many years of your life would you give up with your grand or great grandchildren for the sake of convenience? 1,2,5? |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 5/5/2024 2:30:16 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1245xx: I can see that. It’s a myriad of issues that could be addressed by those in the healthcare industry, not Mac the mechanic or Sam from customer service. The problem with the healthcare industry is the middlemen and the people that accommodate them. A typical primary care doctor has 3-5 employees supporting them so they can see 20-24 patients per day. A direct primary care doctor has 0-2 employees supporting them so they can see 6-8 patients per day. The DPC doctor doesn't take insurance and costs 138% more per patient than an insurance doctor, but the overall savings amounts to about 13% per patient, after the DPC doctor is paid. Now, the ASC guys have stories like this, and the pharmacists, and everyone, the problem is that healthcare is run for the benefit of insurance companies, hospitals, corporations, etc, not providers or patients. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/5/2024 2:34:12 PM EDT
[#40]
My pcp makes me come in every 3 months for nothing.
Him: Any changes? Me: No Him: great! See you in 3 months |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 2:38:12 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HangfiresGhost: Sounds like you expect your GP to do heart surgery too? 😂😂 |
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HI, USA
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Posted: 5/5/2024 2:40:05 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By victorgonzales: The good news is pretty soon AI will be able to diagnose and come of with more personal treatment plans. You'll only need to get MRI, X-ray, blood work ect. AI will likely eventually be better at diagnosing and treating people than most doctors as well. Clearly you know next to nothing about AI or the health care industry. Machine learning and data mining have been around for decades and could have been used to measurably improve health care outcomes but it hasn't happened because that isn't the business model of the health care industry. The model is to extract as much money as possible from people before they die, period. |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 2:48:11 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DetroitSounds: Food is medicine, for most things. Avoid doctors like the plague.  except when your prostate shuts down.
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Posted: 5/5/2024 2:56:04 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DasRonin: Right up until AI euthanize you because it could be terminal ailment and/or cost the health system too much to keep the elderly or infirm alive! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DasRonin: Originally Posted By victorgonzales: The good news is pretty soon AI will be able to diagnose and come of with more personal treatment plans. You'll only need to get MRI, X-ray, blood work ect. AI will likely eventually be better at diagnosing and treating people than most doctors as well. Right up until AI euthanize you because it could be terminal ailment and/or cost the health system too much to keep the elderly or infirm alive! |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 3:02:21 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1245xx: Not one person has yet given their well defined, silver bullet solution yet. In past threads I've read posts saying, if we the healthcare industry just did this ONE simple thing, our problems would be solved! There is no simple fix. We'd have to unwind a hundred years of regulations in healthcare and insurance and pretty much collapse the current system to fix it. We'd have to let the elderly and poor die for the most part because the cost is too immense to give everyone everything for free. Just like social security the current healthcare system is a house of cards they just keep building taller. The best thing you can do is exercise eat healthy. Stop eating sugar and processed foods. Get your own blood tests and research what your body is lacking and fix it through diet if possible. People lean too heavily on drugs and do nothing to make their bodies healthy in this country and that's a large part of the cost problem as well. |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 3:07:03 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cataly5t: Clearly you know next to nothing about AI or the health care industry. Machine learning and data mining have been around for decades and could have been used to measurably improve health care outcomes but it hasn't happened because that isn't the business model of the health care industry. The model is to extract as much money as possible from people before they die, period. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cataly5t: Originally Posted By victorgonzales: The good news is pretty soon AI will be able to diagnose and come of with more personal treatment plans. You'll only need to get MRI, X-ray, blood work ect. AI will likely eventually be better at diagnosing and treating people than most doctors as well. Clearly you know next to nothing about AI or the health care industry. Machine learning and data mining have been around for decades and could have been used to measurably improve health care outcomes but it hasn't happened because that isn't the business model of the health care industry. The model is to extract as much money as possible from people before they die, period. They will have to actively stop AI to keep this reality at bay and I don't think they will be able to do that. At some point the average PC will have the power to run a medical ai most likely and they won't be able to stop it. They'd have to stop you from getting blood work or scans and I think people might revolt over how obvious that tyranny is. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 5/5/2024 3:26:37 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Low_Country: We are beyond blessed to live in the most medically advance age in human history. I give OP 0/10. Every age was the most medically advanced at the time. There is certainly a dearth of cutting edge technology that is only growing better. The actual administration of medicine is a convoluted mess on many many levels. OP has a point that there are some glaring shortcomings. The actual administration of the business of medicine probably hampers more efficient results. |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 3:40:03 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DetroitSounds: Food is medicine, for most things. Avoid doctors like the plague. My wife recently had a medical procedure done, and it really wore me out. I was up and praying for like three days. I thank God everything went well, but dear Lord I was worried literally sick. |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 3:40:17 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By victorgonzales: There is no simple fix. We'd have to unwind a hundred years of regulations in healthcare and insurance and pretty much collapse the current system to fix it. We'd have to let the elderly and poor die for the most part because the cost is too immense to give everyone everything for free. Just like social security the current healthcare system is a house of cards they just keep building taller. The best thing you can do is exercise eat healthy. Stop eating sugar and processed foods. Get your own blood tests and research what your body is lacking and fix it through diet if possible. People lean too heavily on drugs and do nothing to make their bodies healthy in this country and that's a large part of the cost problem as well. I stopped going to the gym, but I have n\been watching what I eat. I’ve lost about 25 lbs since the first of the year. Two things helped the most. Don’t eat that mixing size bowl size of cereal every morning. Even if you put a healthy banana in it. Next, get rid of the bowl of ice cream that looks like mt Vesuvius on top of a piece of hot fudge cake. Last is, I try not to eat after 6 or 630. I’m 5-11 and 177 right now. My wife is a temptress and buys me all kind of sweet stuff. I have to be very careful. This, and being very lucky with genetics, have really helped me avoid repeated trips to the Doctor. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 5/5/2024 3:44:14 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bronsonburner: All fine and good till that big MI happens. Then what? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bronsonburner: Originally Posted By DetroitSounds: Food is medicine, for most things. Avoid doctors like the plague. All fine and good till that big MI happens. Then what? That’s the point, eat well and exercise and you won’t have the MI |
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