The wife an I are finally ready to escape our 1/2 acre suburban heaven.  Have money put aside for a good start on some land in the "country."  At local prices were looking at 3-7 acres depending on things like; distance from jobs, current improvements, proximity to flood zones.  Land has skyrocketed in the last 20 or so year, with Katrina causing the first big hit.

I want to start a thread to document progress and ask questions.

In the end we want enough land to be more secure (remote from larger population centers) more private, paid off, and have the ability to produce more of our own food.  

Questions in the land shopping stage...

Is a plot starting from scratch or has someone already developed there?
Is it on county water and/or sewage?
If not does it have well dug or septic tank put in?
Is it cleared, how much do we want cleared?
Distance to current jobs?
Distance from major roads?
Proximity to possible meth trailers?
Proximity to people I know?

For example we are currently looking at two properties both about 30 minutes from me and wife's job...

#1 Three acres on a county commuter road, it had a trailer on it in as recently as 2018.  It is cleared (needs to be bush hogged) It has a nice cinderblock shop that would have to be cleared out and re-roofed. It has a nice driveway already there.  There is a wellhouse with a pressure tank but the pump is missing.  There are rental trailers across the road but most of the houses on our side are brick.  It puts me a lot closer to one of my best friends.  There is a guy that works for me (that I like) about 1/4 mile away.

#2 Is 3.7 acres on a less used road but has a railroad behind it and an actual major state highway behind that .  The railroad has a wooded easement and  the property would never be able to be seen from the major highway, but we can hear it.  Land development would be starting from scratch.  The neighbors on either side are recent brick houses, the neighbors across the street are trailers on 1-2 acre plots.  It is further from most of my good friends but there is a guy I know and get along with (he's a contractor) that has about 20 acres across the road.

The shopping for land, and the building of a house are the most stressfull parts.

I look forward to thinking about other stuff...

Tractors, food bearing trees, gardening, bees, chickens

First, congratulations!

Second, I'll revisit this thread due to interest!

Land was the easy part.

Building our own house via my weekly paychecks
put a great strain on my first marriage.

I loved living rural, and I miss it.

Good luck!

Tractors, it will be sub or compact size for that small of an area

Food bearing trees they take up a lot of space

Chickens they only need a small area away from the garden if you free roam them.

Bees (this is my next goal) they need to eat so flowers, clover, fruit trees etc, not sure how far they go but (I could be wrong) I was told just a hundred yards or so is their habitat

Garden is one of the how big and what to grow? We have several garden areas, herbs in raised beds, peppers in raised beds,

The main garden is a lot bigger for potatoes, peas, squash, peppers take up space

I think you have a good starting point , for size one thing we did is I printed off maps and scaled them, then I made scale things, garden, house, barn, trucks etc so we could set them around the property.

Im subscribed

Oh you def. are going to want a big pantry or cellar to store potatoes, turnips and stuff you can, we pressure can almost a thousands jars a year, and they take up alot of space...


@Currahee

I agree with bansil, and highly recommend
starting with a garden and chickens.

My tiny farm already had apple trees and
raspberries.

Squirrels were easily taken, deer less so.

"Starting our journey..."

Sounds like a fn youtube channel.

They took our lowball offer on property number one, just wrote a check to the title company.

Now the fun really begins.

The looming question...

Barndominium vs Traditional

Congratulations

I always wanted to build a big metal building with roll up doors on both sides and a house built inside on 1 end. Then open middle bay doors drive in ,park go out other side.

With a fire pit and hottub inside and a roof that opened

Congratulations - I wrote a long post towards you the other day but didn't post it.   Glad you got your property.

I vote barndo all the way, for various reasons.   Mainly because it offers the most flexibility, but is also very cost effective and helps with the grey-man image.  

We are in the middle of the same exact process, got a nice 30 acre place out in the country that's getting ready to get a barndo built.   I would leave and go there full time tomorrow if the wife would agree.  

Bon Voyage!

We're going on 30 years into it.

You never get "there".  There will always be something to do, something to work on.

Pick out a garden spot and start piling brush cuttings etc. there to compost down from the day you start.  You'll be happy you did in a year or two.

If at all possible, try to meet potential neighbors and adjoining property owners FTF before signing anything.  You are more or less inviting them into your life by moving there, and that relationship will be there for as long as you own the property - for better or worse.

I'd like to say it's a lot of work, but it's not... it's constant work .  But ultimately it's worth it, if you're the type to stick it through.  IMO it's the single best thing you can do to improve your family's future security.

As a developer of multiple "starter" homestead properties, my buyers never seem to stop asking for more concrete.

Something about wanting to have a place for:
1) humans to stay dry
2) chickens to stay dry
3) goats to stay dry
4) horses to stay dry
5) etc. to stay dry

I'm not sure how concrete keeps those things dry.

I don't have enough to move to a place where I will escape the encroachment.  I will still need to work for the next 5-10 years.  The place we are buying will probably have a couple big subdivisions in the next 10-20 years, but I will be surrounded by 1-6 acre plots.  On a positive note, when I pass this on to my son if he doesn't want to live there it will be worth a lot more $$.

No matter what you build, over insulate it.  Energy prices are rising.  They aren't going to go down.  Insulation always pays off.  Then, size your HVAC system properly.

2x6 outer walls really seem to help with extra insulation

I do this kind of thing for a living for commercial clients.  IM me if you have any questions.

Check with the county Environmental Health Dept concerning septic systems.  Is the soil suitable for a septic system.  Just because one has been there doesn't mean you can put another one
or that it won't be without problems.  Some systems are grandfathered in, but are inadequate.  I designed a system for a house that had 3 failed systems.  A Hispanic couple got screwed by the seller
and had to pay me to design it and pay about $20,000 for the system in 2018.  The only place to put the system was in the front yard and it was a mound system, because the groundwater was 2" below
the surface.  It also required cutting down 2 beautiful oak trees.  It looks like ass, but they can take a shit now.

Check for floodplain.  In GA, the county GIS will have floodplains shown online.  I don't know about MS.  FEMA website has flood maps.  https://msc.fema.gov/portal/advanceSearch

The county GIS may have topo.  If not you can check it online.  https://caltopo.com/

If a well is onsite or is needed, do a lot of research.  I had a client with chicken houses drill 3 wells that didn't meet the required flow.  He called me and I referred him to a geologist that gave him 3 ranked locations to
drill.  The first one gave him the required flow.  This was in about a 10 acre area.  If you have to, pay for a flow test and have the water tested.

What industry is in the area?  Could there be polluted groundwater?

Chicken houses and some other farming operations can stink to high heaven.  Look around for farms and check the predominate wind direction.  It probably comes from the west.

Do the farms drain to your site?

Soils that are good for a septic system are probably also good for gardening, but check them anyway.  https://websoilsurvey.sc.egov.usda.gov/App/WebSoilSurvey.aspx

Check with the county extension agent about gardening and livestock.

Adjacent railroad?  Recent derailings tell me to avoid that.

Is there a stream on the property?  This may seem like a good thing for a homestead, but it can be problematic.  Local, state, and federal rules may not allow you to do what you want with it.  Most people
think you can build a pond in the stream, but the state and Army Corps of Engineers will have a different idea about that.  I'm all about starving the monkeys, but the corps and the state EPD can be 3 feet
up your ass with fines and stream restoration requirements.  Everybody says, fuck them, but nobody is coming to save you.  I have had to prepare stream restoration plans for farmers and developers.  They
could afford $100k fines and restoration costs.  

If there is a stream there is probably a required undisturbed buffer along it.  Find out the definition of a stream.  What looks like a ditch can be a stream according to the
state or may be a wetland according to USACE.  I'm less concerned about USACE than the state, but if the county or a neighbor calls the state, the state may bring USACE.

Streams can bring local flooding that doesn't show on the FEMA maps.  Streams are hard to fence across to keep livestock in.

Buy a new boundary survey and title insurance.  

Don't buy a site with an access easement across it.  

Don't buy a site accessed only by an easement.

Mineral rights.  I know dick about this, but I know it's a thing in some places.

What are the county requirements for clearing land, building a barn, etc...

Were good on most of that stuff, have a survey lined up.

It is on county water and sewage (has a lift pump) but there is an existing well we need checked out.

No easements, no industry near by, no streams, no wear near a flood zone (per FEMA map).

There are very few requirements fo building besides normal county storm and safety code.

There is no covenant.

Went out today with my contractor and started seriously looking at house plans.

Do not design your own house. Either purchase an existing house plan or have one drawn up for you.

What do you mean by design your own house?  We have looked at a lot of house plans and use the closest to sketch what we like  

We are having a pro "draw" them.

This is not acceptable in this tech forum.

Post something useful to help answer the OP's question, or scroll on by.

I'm not going to issue a formal warning, even if I probably should.  Next time, I will.

~Kitties  

I'm trying to figure out what you're talking about.

Me too.

And good job not responding with profanity.

~Kitties

eta:  In future, it will help if y'all will use the report button.

Dumbest post of the day!

This is why I advocate for the OP of a thread to be able to moderate their own thread.  Be able to delete useless shit like this without needing a mod to do it.

I've got 20 acres to build on.  Guess what jos, I'm going to build it exactly like I want.

Below is an edit by Kitties since she was removing the dumb quote that elicited this (completely reasonable) response:

Re:  OPs editing other people's responses to the OP's thread:  It is certainly a tempting idea, and should this be implemented, Kitties would not have to walk away from the computer and think for a bit about her response before she posts (cuz Kitties was born with a low tolerance for bullshit, and that's not just a line for laughs).  

HOWEVER:  This OP is awesome and very reasonable.  Not every OP is as well balanced.

Some OPs would edit constructive, valid criticism, and undermine the very reason this forum exists.

Moderating THAT would be impossible.   AND...a lot of good information would be lost.  It's just not manageable in a forum like HOmestead, that values GOOD information, pleasant or not, and hopes to dissuade as much as is possible, the bullshit.

If you want to discuss that, I know it would be a valid discussion...but let's not do it here and jack this OP's nice thread.  Any more than I already am.

I hope when you build on your 20 acres, you will show it here.

And in future...please use the report button?  It would help us all--way more than you know.

~Kitties

Uncool...this isn't GD

You are 100 percent correct.

I respectfully ask that y'all use the report button, so we can nail this BS before it requires so many edits?

~Kitties

IF this was GD I'd have a witty response, but choose to ignore him.

I've got fun questions to ask.

Back on topic with fun stuff.

I wrote a check to my contractor today, he is also my home designer.  ARFCOMs own @KaiK (if he wants to show up and participate in this thread.)

We went out to the property twice yesterday, once with Kai and once with another friend that lives on the other side of the small town.  He's a good friend that started this journey 15 years or so ago.  "Next door" neighbor stopped by as well.  Seems like a nice guy, but at 69 he's not gonna become my workout shooting bud he does have his own bush hog and zero turn, and has been mowing this property.  

Sundays will be work on property day and Monday work at current house day until we make a move.

Survey should happen this week.

Not gonna talk to a well guy for a while.

My son is gonna be down for the summer this weekend, so Mother's day is going to be visiting the property and taking wife and MIL out to eat.

The first Sunday after we get the title the job will be clearing the trees that have grown up around the shed.  I have all the tools and will have my son for that.

I've been studying on big yard/JR farmer tools.  Zero turn vs lawn tractor vs walk behind tractor vs roto tiller, lots to learn.  A year or so before I need any of that though.

A more urgent decision/task is getting some trail cameras out there.  

Need to find out about natural gas service.

Already found out about internets, which was pretty good news.

When I get home from some chores today I'm gonna look for some kind of online landscape planner.

You will learn ............


Buy a 6 inch gas powered auger from harbor frt. everything that needs to be dry will surely have 4x4 posts or round posts concreted in to keep it in place from wind, rain, snow , animals, tractor oopsies, truck bumpers etc...

If you have a lot of fence to do get a pto one for your tractor, to set the

Even the $99 dollar one we have has put in at least 50 posts

Go ahead and get on tractorbynet it's the Arf of tractors and land working and lots to read

Congrats on the purchase.

We are doing the same thing but with a farm that has worked since 1903

We are the 1st non family owners in 5 generations.

The brother lives over the hill he's 73 and fit as a fiddle.

It's like getting the owners manual with the place he is a great guy and fills me in on everything.
From the history of the farm to the local history.

@73 I've let him treat it like it's still his.
He hunts here and has helped me cut a new road in along with clearing drainage ditches and clearing over growth out of the middle field for the blueberrys we planted this year.
He even brush hogged the lower & upper fields till I got my own setup.

Again congrats on buying some dirt.

Don't listen to negative Nancy ( probably sour grapes anyways)

The one poster is right you will have projects for the rest of your life.
Don't worry though they will almost all be self rewarding.

I have built two houses.  Far from an expert but have a little experience.  First house, we bought a set of plans.  Worked out fine.  Would have liked to change a few things once we got moved in but overall, it worked out.  Second house, we couldn't find a set of plans we liked.  I came up with a house look we liked and tried to draw up a floor plan.  Thought it looked good.  Ended up deciding to have a drafter come up with the plan.  Turns out, my floor plan and layout was pretty stupid.  Drafters have lots of experience putting things into place when designing a floor plan.  Either a pre-made plan or having someone draw up a plan for you will be 100% worth the money.  If you have a pre-drawn plan, your builder can make small changes without redrawing the plans.

Guess all those country people should stop selling their land to the evil "suburbanites".  

*Edited and banned from thread.*

Still not adding anything of value, and the "kind" words you put in do not hide your disdain. Whether you are trying to be a dick or not, you are acting like one, and this is not the place.

Go elsewhere to be that.

~Kitties

That (second thing) is pretty much what we're doing, except the drafter is also the general contractor

Smart. Should be fine then. Try to walk through it in your mind. Imagine opening doors, getting in the shower, using the toilet, using the clothes washer and dryer etc. You may find you want a door to open differently or be placed elsewhere.

Random thoughts:

Plan for your HVAC system. Have a place for the air handler/furnace. Not the attic or crawl space. Typically the homeowner gets the structure built and then tells the HVAC guy to fit it in somewhere. It’s never ideal. Having the ability to easily access the inside unit is super valuable. Some people solve those problems with mini splits. Not a bad way to go. I have a dual fuel propane furnace/heat pump and it’s wonderful.

Insulate well! Doesn’t have to be expensive but spend more to get it right. Air seal it well. It’s not getting cheaper to heat and cool a house. Make it affordable to own and live in. Rigid foam on the exterior is extremely valuable and totally worth the extra expense. We put 1 inch rigid foam over the girts and then taped all the seams and then put the metal on. Did cellulose in the wall cavities. Our utility bills are 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of similar size houses in the area.

If I ever build a house again, I will use casement windows. Great for letting in lots of air when open and seal up really tight when closed.

Also if you do heat pump put it on the end of the house away from master, you don't want to hear it when relaxing on front or back porch

I'm sorry my use of the word "homestead" offends you.  There is a huge spectrum from living in an apartment to going Jeremiah Johnson.  Wherever you draw the line in using the term "homesteading" is inconsequential to me.  You should probably make an ass of yourself in a YouTube comments section somewhere.

I listed what I want to do and what I needed to consider in my OP, most of the land consideration are moot now (unless this offer falls through somehow and I start over.)

Yes, in 5-10 years I'm gonna have more 1-5 acre subdivisions around me, that is a lot better than the section 8 apartments that got put up a half mile from my current house.  I did not start this thread in a tech forum to debate such things.

I got you now.

Looked at vids of the cheap Harbor Freight auger last night.  

My buddy is pushing me towards a real tractor, but that is 1-2 years down the road IMO.

For a property that size a smaller utility tractor would be ideal. I wouldn’t buy new. A loader is so awesome to have I would want one with a loader vs a cheaper and old tractor.

I’ve seen a bunch of used tractors in my area that are 20-30 years old and still serviceable and capable of lots of future work.  My Kubota is 30 yrs old and just keeps running with only a few small repairs here and there.

I'm thinking tractor is the way to go, some people have said zero turn, but I prefer the versatility.

I have more learning to do.

Zero turns do one thing well and better than anything....mowing.  They just don't do anything else well.  Tractors will mow but also do far more.  With that size of acreage, I'd probably look at trying to make your yard small enough you can mow it with a push mower.  Then, get a smaller tractor with loader for everything else.

Get a Kubota BX/LX style tractor with a drive-over belly mower.   If you can swing it the cab is a worth it in the summer.

Post some pics of the land.

I really like the look of them but the specific tractor I get will depend on the used market.

Right now I'm just learning about tractors, that will come after we get the shed redone and I figure out how big of a construction loan we will be taking out.  Lot's of things to get done first, but I'll start seriously looking when I have a place to store it.

I'll get some pics up next.

Looking across from the driveway, there is another plot between me and the house you see, belongs to the guy in the houses son, but he hasn't done much with it.

Attached File



The tree line in the background is the line, to the right is owned by a timber company and to the left another guy that owns 4 three-ish acre plots and has only developed one of them.
And the shed that turned me on in the first place, first Sunday after I sign for it I'll be cutting all the crap from around it.  It's also filled with crap and needs a new door.  But the floor walls and rafters are good.

Attached File


Closeup of shed.

Attached File

Looks like a nice space. The shed/shop looks awesome! Check the rafters and and internal framing/wood for termites carefully. Naturally they won’t eat the concrete but they will travel up it looking for wood.  I’d spray for termites. I have a 20 gallon sprayer and spray around my buildings every year. You can also tow it and spray the field for bugs. Bifenthrin and fipronil are your friends

It’s 3-4 acres. He doesn’t need a cab. Cabs are nice but a luxury he doesn’t need for his land. I imagine he needs to spend the money elsewhere.

I have 9 acres with a combo of fields and woods and have never wished for a cab. Perhaps if I had 40+ and was spending hours cutting hay having a cab would be nice.

Looks like a nice place - having that building already up is a huge step forward.  Could be put to use a temporary sleeping quarters or secure storage for a tractor...

Don't discount buying new, especially with Kubota they have some pretty decent deals right now, with 0% financing.  Just about the make the last payment on my L2501HST and will put that money into a larger second tractor (with cab).   Sure, for my properties I don't need a cab tractor either, but it makes it a lot nicer to use in the heat for a few thousand more.  
And always buy bigger than what you need, not smaller.  I'm very glad I got the L-series over the B-series.  I wish I had bought a MX.  

Unsure what deals JD/NewHolland/Massey has but they might be similar.  Check out TractorByNet for good information on tractors.
Many support buying the dealer, not the brand, but that didn't work for me as my Kubota dealer shut down less than a year after I bought.

I'd start by looking for someone local that can come in with a rotary cutter and clean everything up for you to give you a better look of the place.  Being a small property, a few hundred will likely be the most you'd pay for the first cut.

That will certainly be one of the first things, while I'm working on clearing the shed.

Still waiting on survey, should close at end of month.

Gonna head out Sunday and show my son, hopefully I can see the neighbor again and offer him money for bush hogging.

Have a meeting with Kai Monday about house plans.

Good news! What's your weather like year round, you going to be able to work this summer, or is rain an issue?
I know the damn humidity and heat will be rough