So I was wanting to build/get a 7mm PRC for a mountain gun kind of hunting rifle, and then I heard about the 6.8 Western. Then I started looking and learned more about the 7 SAUM, and so many more... The goal is for a somewhat compact, somewhat light gun that can easily take up to an elk at western-US hunting distances, with a little extra behind it if anything. And I have no qualms with handloading, would probably prefer to.

And what I ended up circling back to was the 7 PRC. It's industry supported enough it has the power, etc.

But some of these other cartridges still interest me. Should they? According to some resources (that I'm skeptical of), the SAUM can achieve near identical velocities with far less powder, for example.

What say the people who know better?

Well given that WDM Karamojo Bell, as a professional hunter, killed several hundred elephants in Africa years ago with a 7x57 Mauser, albeit with proper bullet placement, and well constructed bullets........ Thankfully I never succumbed to Magnumitis. I've killed deer, antelope, mule deer, elk, one small moose with a 270 Winchester or a 7x57 Mauser, I've just never felt the need for hyper powered cartridges that at best offer only a few hundred more fps velocity and another couple of hundred foot pounds of energy on target. I take shots at distances I know I can make and don't rely on extreme power to make those shots. I make sure that I have ample terminal energy to make a humane kill at the distance I'm shooting, know my cartridge and its relevant dope, and can place my shots accordingly.
I know, it's old school blue steel and walnut thinking, but that's how I was taught to hunt. YMMV

Interesting video...for 7PRC you can jump to 4:50 in the video.

This is actually the video that got me started down this rabbit hole.

I’ve got two 7 PRC’s, it’s an excellent round. One of them is a Seekins Element that weighs just under 6lbs bare. With a Leica 2.5-15x56 in Hawkins rings, and a Hawkins brake it weighs just under 8lbs and recoil is mild for a lightweight magnum rifle.

There’s no way I’d buy a 6.8 Western or 7SAUM. The 6.8 is slowly dying and you basically have Winchester and Browning for ammo both of which aren’t the greatest and brass is limited as well. 7SAUM has been dying for longer, there’s no factory ammo pretty much and brass is limited and can be hard to find at times. 7SAUM is a great round outside of that though.

My second choice to a 7PRC would be a 7mm Rem mag. It’s also a great round, it just lacks the modern case design of the PRC that has significant benefits. If you reload 280AI would also be a great choice but rifle options are more limited than the PRC and RM.

I also wouldn’t put too much thought into the performance that guntubers are getting out of factory sewer pipes on Ruger Americans, Savages, and Mossbergs. Shitty barrels are going to have shitty results. Both of mine are 22” and my Seekins gets 2935fps with factory precision hunter which tracks for Hornadys data out of a 24” Bartlein which is what they use for testing. My Bergara gets 2860fps with the same lot which is purely barrel quality and chamber specs.

I own and have hunted with the 6.5/7/300 PRC.  I also own and have hunted with all comparable (standard & magnum) .25/6.5/270/280/300 legacy calibers. I have hunted in a variety of locations.  Shot at a variety of distances.  On a variety of game types and sizes.

This is the honest truth.  The animal doesn’t know the difference.  Shot placement trumps all, followed by bullet construction choice.  The round will not make up for a poor shot and or bullet selection.

With this being said, if I had to sell all my hunting rifles and choose what I’ll finish out the rest of my life with, it would be rifles chambered in the PRCs.

1 rifle, travel the world - 300 PRC
1 rifle, NA only - 7 PRC
2 rifles, do all - 6.5 & 300 PRC

While I could easily interchange legacy magnums with the above, the newer rounds come in newer, lighter carbon fiber rifles.  These rifles make all the difference because of weight. Technology in stock design, brakes, recoil pads, and suppressors, allow me to shoot 225gr .30 cal at 2950 fps with the recoil of a ‘hot’ 30.06.

The 300 PRC is the most versatile of the 3 due to bullet choices.

The only reason, to stay with a legacy round, past you don’t need the newest round, is ammo availability in far off places.

As far as 7 PRC, The Fierce CT Rouge is one I settled on.

The video lost me at "grain weight".  I hate that.  I wonder if he says "pound weight rifle" or "yard length range".

"Price point", "rate of speed".

Seriously, I wouldn't put much stock in that video.

Yeah, nothing like prose to indicate someone's chronograph isn't working..?

My only advice, look long and hard at a 30 cal before settling on 7mm OP..there has been  a big upturn in high BC 30 cal bullets the last few years, Berger alone has at least a dozen new 30 cal high BC bullets alone just from 200 grains to 245 grains... which means the 30 cal has bullets for anything and everything you could possible need a bullet for....An added bonus is barrel life would also be better same case 30 cal over 7mm.....If I was doing a new cartridge today over my rum, 300 norma mag  would likely be the choice, but I have no plans to leave the rum, it does everything I want out of a LR/hunting cartridge....

Granted while each 25fps slower equates to about 40-50yds less range...  You're still supersonic WELL over a mile, delivering 1000FPE (deer) beyond 1250yds and ~1500FPE (elk/moose) to ~800yds.  That's impressive for off the shelf ammo that's relatively light recoiling and cheap compared to typical off the shelf ELR cartridges.  And if you really want that extra 125-200fps back, just buy a different brand or handload.

Weather today at noon:
1000' ASL
30.13inHg
70F
32%RH
10MPH Wind
100yd Zero

180gr Hornady 7PRC Match
only 2857FPS like the video

range | Velocity | Energy | come up | Wind
1500yd  1450fps  840fpe  13.2mil  2.1mil
1600yd  1381fps  762fpe  14.8mil  2.3mil
1700yd  1316fps  693fpe  16.4mil  2.5mil
1800yd  1257fps  632fpe  18.2mil  2.7mil
1900yd  1204fps  579fpe  20.2mil  2.9mil
2000yd  1156fps  534fpe  22.2mil  3.2mil

Even the "weak" 2800FPS 175gr Hornady Precision Hunter is above transonic (1200fps+) out to 1600yd and supersonic (1100fps+) out to 1800yd.

I feel like the simple fact that 6.5CM/PRC and 7/300PRC book-end the 6.8 western... that's going to limit a lot of potential 6.8 users and it's going to have a short life. I mean, the 7mm PRC is already sort of in-between those and most people are going to just pick the 7 of the 6.8 because ... 7.

People looking for more economy, less recoil, or lighter game are going to gravitate towards the 6.5.  People looking to hunt bigger game and "muh 30 calibur" crowd are going to look to 30PRC and people just looking for a medium game crossover rifle that can also bust milk jugs or ring gongs at a mile+ are going to choose a 7mm.

Among 7mm cartridges:

The 7x57 is king.  
The 280 Remington is the prince.

PRCs are the latest fad though, so there's that.

Attached File


I have a 7 SAUM built on a TL3 short action. It’s an excellent cartridge that does exactly what you described better than anything else out there IMO.

It’s only downside is lack of factory support, if that matters to you. Although it can be sometimes hard to source, ADG makes excellent brass and have stated they will continue to make SAUM brass as long as they are in business. It’s a very popular cartridge with the Palma and ELR crowd. I reload so it doesn’t matter much to me. I easily swap to a 6.5 CM barrel and bolt head in the off season to practice, saving brass and barrel life on the SAUM.

Now if factory support matters to you the 7 PRC is the clear winner. The downside is it needs to have a long action, so it’s not going to be quite as lightweight as a SAUM could be (though the SAUM is really ideal on a medium action.)

Bottom line you can’t go wrong. I’ve got the SAUM and have no regrets, but I wouldn’t mind adding the PRC some day too.

ETA I would stay away from the 6.8 Western. At this point the SAUM has better support with ADG brass.

Can you speak to what size bullets you can fit in that thing, and just how much lighter/shorter it is than a PRC?

A short action (TL3) weighs 28oz and a long action weighs 31oz. So 3oz. That doesn’t include larger magazines, bottom metal, etc. I don’t know the exact length difference but I’d guess about an inch.

I shoot 150gr copper solids, but they are about the size/length of a 180gr cup and core Berger.

I’ve got a SAAMI chamber, but if you really want to maximize SAUM performance a medium action with a custom long throat is the best bet, but you are obviously trading a slight amount of length/weight.

If you handload it’s difficult to beat 7SAUM.

If you search 1-mile shots on YouTube you’ll find more 7SAUM videos than about any other cartridge. Its accuracy capabilities are astonishing, and it carries enough energy for very large game.

OP, are you planning on hunting outside the US with this?

[delete]

I am not

A consideration is how you hunt OP…

If I frequently went to someplace like Alaska, or flew to your hunting destination, I’d lean PRC even though I think the SAUM is slightly more ideal. Reason being is if you somehow lost your ammo, you should be able to pick some up most sporting goods stores.

For me I always drive to wherever I hunt, and always tote along my 30-06 Ruger as a backup. So I don’t really worry too much about the fact I couldn’t just buy ammo somewhere if I needed it. I’m super anal about packing checklists and it’s not gonna get lost in baggage if I drive. Worst case, I’ll hunt with the 06.

Well, the reason I'm leaning PRC is really because industry support (for reasons you talk about, but also just easier to find brass, that kind of thing) and the tight tolerances in barrels people talk about, etc. In the long run, I imagine just owning/shooting/utilizing PRC will be easier.

Another consideration: if I decided I wanted that heavier/longer bullet for whatever reason, it seems like a SAUM makes it more difficult. Is that actually the case?

But, I was toying around with Gordon's Reloading Tool... and according to that, as well as Nosler reloading data I was just able to google, you can shoot the same bullet the same speed with less powder from a SAUM. I can only imagine this is because you get a faster burn with less length, more surface area, in the stack of powder? (i.e. in the cartridge.) Is this really true? Because that might make it worth it if brass ends up the same.

Meh, ADG makes brass for both, both within 2 bucks cost wise...unless lapua decides to make brass for either one ADG is the best brass for either both are 97-99 bucks per 50..currently 9 boxes of 7prs versus 137 boxes of 7 SAUM in stock at unknown munitions.. Says more prs brass won't be made until mid may of 24 according to their info...Norma also makes 7 saum brass...been very happy with the norma brass we have used for 375H&H for price and quality......

https://www.unknownmunitions.com/product/adg-brass/


Also might want to check around, a lot of people say prs is not meeting the speeds the ammo makers say it is and is up to 140fps slower in most production rifles...An interesting thread on both cartridges....

https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/7-prc-7saum-velocities.351092/

It depends on what action you want to run, and how heavy you want to go. Like I said I use a SAAMI chamber and a bullet that is more or less the same size as a 180gr Berger. I’ve never tried anything heavier/longer and frankly don’t see the need. You might struggle going above that in a short action. I just measured and my Mag is 2.990” and my reloads are 2.880” at .020” from the lands. If I really wanted to maximize performance I’d have a smith add .100” free bore.

For years guys would run them on long actions and custom throats. If I were building one today, I’d look hard at a medium action with a .200” custom long throat. That should give you the ability to run most any .284 projectile.

The SAUM is extraordinarily efficient and accurate. The best groups I’ve ever shot have been with my SAUM. It’s a no BS .3-.4 inch gun consistently, without a lot of load development either.


That said I have no doubt the Hornady engineers did their homework on the 7 PRC. I fell into the SAUM by happenstance more or less. Got into long range, built a 6.5 CM bolt gun on the TL3 action. Got into elk hunting and was disappointed in how the 6.5 performed on game and began looking at what I could upgrade to and stay in a short action. It came down between the 300 WSM and the 7 SAUM. I chose SAUM and have been very pleased with my choice. I’m a huge SAUM fanboy now. I really enjoy being able to swap barrels between the SAUM, 6.5 CM, and even 223 Wylde in the same rifle. That’s something to consider that shouldn’t be overlooked. It allows me to shoot/practice with my main hunting rifle very cheaply.


That said if I were building a dedicated do all hunting rifle today it would be hard not to choose the 7 PRC.

Bottom line both will serve you well, and it’s really splitting hairs to suss out the advantages of one over the other.

The PRCs are going to catch on.

I own a Remington Model 7 in 7mm SAUM.  It's remarkably accurate out of a gun not known for ramarkable accuracy (for a few shots that is, until that thin barrel heats up )
Recoil is well managed by a VAIS brake.

I decided to build a long-range bench gun and settled on that cartridge.  It's made some inroads into 1000 yard F-class, which has traditionally been dominated by 6.5-284.
I had it built on a medium-long action, to give me flexibility with longer, heavier bullets.

But the comment about .30 caliber bullet design becoming more optimized for long range shooting is also valid.

You’ll be fine with either, especially if you reload.

I just realized, then googled it... 7 PRC uses LR primers. 7 SAUM uses LRM primers.

Suddenly my decision became easy.

@Shinobi15 I use standard LR primers in my 7 SAUM without issue. Single digit SD’s no problem.

ETA in theory the SAUM would be better off with standard primers vs the PRC due to the shorter case. Standard vs Magnum primers really comes down to the individual load/powder rather than the case itself. You just have to experiment and find out what gives you the best velocity, accuracy and SD.

well now you ruined my cheat code...

do you happen to know if the same is true for 300 norma mag cartridges?

I've made loads for my 300rum with normal LRP's instead of LRMP's before...most loads will tolerate standard primers unless the temps really go down...the RUM will load as much as 110 grains of powder on certain loads.....Primer choice would be one of the last things I would ever consider for a cartridge choice...