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Posted: 8/14/2018 7:57:40 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gene_wi:
What is your maximum range? Given what you are saying, it looks like an ACOG is what you need. |
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Posted: 8/15/2018 10:30:57 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SuperDutyMikeMc:
Gene - ACOGs are combat optics; they aren't for shooting tight groups at 600-800 yards as this thread title would imply. Great optics, but they're for minute of enemy shots. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SuperDutyMikeMc:
Originally Posted By gene_wi:
What is your maximum range? Given what you are saying, it looks like an ACOG is what you need. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 9/30/2018 11:56:22 AM EDT
[#3]
IMHO, educate yourself by watching YouTube "Sniper 101" Over 100, 20-30 minute videos of every aspect of long range shooting. With a lot of emphasis on scope performance, selection criteria and cost.
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OK, USA
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Posted: 10/12/2018 10:07:10 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By madwis15:
There is that! btw, even though all I have are variable scopes, I would think a high powered fixed scope would be better for long distance. Brighter and sharper due to simpler optics and such. Less expensive and more durable to boot. I may be wrong, but it seems to make sense to my age addled brain. |
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Posted: 11/17/2018 2:40:26 PM EDT
[#5]
The Athlon Midas TAC has been very well received on other sites. I have one and it doesn't give up a whole lot compared to my Tango6. It has nice 10 mil/rev turrets, clear glass, zero stop and a lifetime warranty for around $550. If you're going fixed get a SWFA.
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NC, USA
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Posted: 3/23/2019 10:02:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: snakeyes711]
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TacticalGarand44:
Takiing everything into account, I think I want a high magnification, fixed power scope with target turrets. 30 mm tube if possible, yes? Does this exist in the 4-500 dollar range? |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 3/23/2019 10:03:45 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sparkyD:
Burris Leupold Nikon Reaper and Vortex all make great one piece extended mounts around the hundred dollar range. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 10/8/2019 8:33:44 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By popnfresh:
I don't know why people think you need a good expensive scope to shoot tight groups. That isn't how it works. If your $30 Bushnell Sportview holds zero, has no parallax, it can shoot just as tight groups as any other scope. A $300 fixed SWFA 10x would be fine to 1k+ yards. The SWFA 10x42 scope has sufficient range of elevation (140 moa) that you can get enough travel to elevate to 1000 yards. Remember, that spec is for total travel, from top to bottom. You are only interested in the top half. 140/2 = 70 moa of positive elevation. A lot of inexpensive scopes do not have sufficient travel. Depending on your caliber, bullet, muzzle velocity, atmospheric pressure, etc., you need between 35 -50 moa of positive elevation to reach 1000 yards. I put a 20 moa base on mine just to be on the safe side. Bonus freebie advice: when mounting your scope, be sure to Loctite all fasteners and torque to recommended values |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 10/8/2019 8:43:57 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SuperDutyMikeMc: I am personally quite skeptical of the SWFA SS scopes, simply because of the price point, and it mostly being mostly new LR shooters "reviewing" them. This is crude and elitist, but I liken it to having a virgin reviewing discount condoms; how do they know what they're talking about? That said, I can't recall seeing a bad review of them, but I've never looked down one myself. Optics in general are very tough to get a feel for online; lots of folks out there will tell you a Simmons looks 90% of a S&B, and that's just flat not true. You may want to see what they're going for used to determine if you can dump it if you're not happy. I don't believe they come in a MOA variant, so you'll be shooting MIL if that matters to you. Regarding it being a fixed 12 power, that's usually not an issue for longer range work. I would guess most of my LR rifles spend ~95% of their time cranked up to full power (20x up to 32x depending on the scope), but then again I'm shooting what amounts to an F-class type discipline, with known distance targets (closest being 100 yards) either proned out or from a bench. For PRS shooting, trying to hit a close in target at ~50 yards while using an upturned pallet for a rest would be much more difficult at 12 power than it would with a variable you can crank down to 3x. As I said with the MOA vs Mil & SFP vs FFP discussion, it really comes down to what you're going to do with the rifle; there is no one size fits all answer. Fixed power will in a way lock your rifle into a certain use case (at least with higher powered ones). For instance, with a variable 4-12x40 (as an example), you could technically use that for LR shooting, but it would also work for your average 20-200 yard deer hunting. That same rifle with a fixed power scope would be much more difficult to hunt with. Just something else to think about. On a positive note, fixed power scopes tend to (or at least used to 15-20 years ago) have more reliable adjustments. Not that it speaks to the repeatablity of the adjustments, but lots of BR guys are running higher end fixed power scopes. Regarding the rings, you'd probably be better served in putting more money into the optic and cheaping out on rings (to an extent). The Burris/Blackhawk style picatinny rings (the ones with 6 screws per ring) will likely work just fine for you. If you were planning on buying NF or Seekins rings, you could probably save money there, and dump that cash into a potentially better scope. Cheaper rings will work, but they aren't as rugged. Plus, a fixed scope is usually more robust than a variable - there is less to go wrong. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 5/1/2020 10:14:47 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wombat: https://swfa.com/swfa-ss-20x42-tactical-30mm-riflescope-6.html That is about as cheap as I would go for what you requested. Ranging reticle does not matter for shooting groups. You will want 20x to maybe a bit more for this. I've seen people shoot .5 moa at 900 yards with a SWFA 12 x 42. Higher magnification is not your friend. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/1/2020 10:56:18 PM EDT
[#11]
Check out the SWFA Sample List. They have a list of demos and trade-ins with some good deals. https://www.samplelist.com/entire-sample-list/riflescopes.html# |
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Posted: 6/15/2020 10:22:00 PM EDT
[#12]
Just went down this same road with my Grendel build. I didn't have a big budget for glass so I chose the Primary Arms 3-18 FFP with the Athena reticle. The reticle is similar to the Horus and allows for quick hold overs instead of dialing.
My plan for the rifle is deer, coyote, and groundhog hunting and shooting steel. I really don't care about shooting paper from a bench. The ony time I shoot paper is load development. I am into more practical accuracy, I guess. I have my steel setup where I can shoot from a variety of locations and positions that way I just don't shoot 100,200,300, etc yards. I can set up and shoot 385 yards or 530 yards. I feel it makes me a better shooter doing it that way. I chose the 3-18 power because I need the field of view and low power(3×) for yote hunting, middle range for deer (4×-8×), and higher end for ground hogs and long range steel. The perfect scope for a do all rifle is always a compromise of power and field of view. I felt this power range met my needs. I like the "christmas tree" reticle for hold overs. It is quick and i don't have to fumble around dialing for a quick shot. It is a busy reticle, but I don't mind it. The tracking on the Primary Arms scope is pretty good in my testing, but if I don't have to dial, it takes one more thing out of the equation. The glass is on par with most Vortex PST level scopes I have looked through. I would recommend a variable power scope, FFP if you are using a hold over reticle, FFP or SFP if you are going to dial, at least 30mm tube, at least 50mm objective, locking turrents and zero stops can be optional. For mount I went with a LaRue LT 204. Again personal preference of QD or solid mount. The MIL/MOA thing is personal preference. My buddy uses MOA, and I use MIL. |
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Posted: 6/21/2020 9:34:35 AM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 6/21/2020 9:45:53 AM EDT
[#14]
Vortex Diamondback Tactical 4-16x44 FFP...retail around $450. It isn't a high end scope, and for 600-800 yard precision groups, more magnification might be necessary for really tight groups, but this scope outperforms it's price point nicely.
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Posted: 6/21/2020 12:28:39 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Genin: Vortex Diamondback Tactical 4-16x44 FFP...retail around $450. It isn't a high end scope, and for 600-800 yard precision groups, more magnification might be necessary for really tight groups, but this scope outperforms it's price point nicely. Yeah after playing with a buddies on a .22-250 with 60 gr bullets I was impressed. He bought another and put it on a Rem 700 .243 win with 90 gr Sierra's that is even sweeter. |
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MS, USA
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Posted: 8/20/2020 11:32:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MS556]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Genin: Vortex Diamondback Tactical 4-16x44 FFP...retail around $450. It isn't a high end scope, and for 600-800 yard precision groups, more magnification might be necessary for really tight groups, but this scope outperforms it's price point nicely. There is also the Vortex Diamondback Tactical 6-24x50 FFP, available in either mil/mil or moa/moa matching tactical turrets and useful Christmas tree type reticle. This is a budget-friendly tactical/long range scope. It has some limitations but will let a capable rife and ammo combo shoot tight groups at 600-800 yards - if light is good. The glass is only so-so, but good enough to perform well if light is good. It has a screw-on front screen which helps. It does give some fine detail resolving to high end scope as range increases. There is some modest flare and some mild chromatic aberration defect, but this is a $400-450 street price scope. It does track well, the turrets and reticle are accurate. I don't know if you can push it to 1,000 yards, as resolution of detail will get iffy that far out. I have used it on a bolt gun to 500 yards in good light and it performed well above my expectations. Its good value value. It now sits on a very accurate 22LR that I use for practice with sub MOA Eley Match ammo. It is a challenge to shoot tight groups with a .22LR beyond 100 yards due to rainbow trajectory and the effect of wind, making practicing hold overs and wind correction hold offs challenging. The scope performed well, accurately dialing elevation and windage or using the reticle. It will not replace a much more expensive target scope, but performed surprisingly well. Only real criticism I have beyond so-so glass (good at the price point, though) is the absence of illumination and the somewhat mushy feel of the turrets. They have soft, somewhat indistinct clicks, but they are accurate and repeatable. There is no zero stop or zero lock, but that would be uncommon at its price point. I would gladly give up any attempt at illumination, as did Vortex, in favor of building more quality into true tracking, usable long range FFP reticle, and good glass for an under $500 scope. Here is how it looks on the Remington 541S .22LR. Its ideal for this role, and acceptable for centerfire shooting out to 600-800 yards if light is good.  The reticle (this scope is moa/moa):  The blur is from the stock photo I tried to download Vortex's website. It is sharp in reality. |
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Posted: 12/13/2020 9:11:31 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By popnfresh: I don't know why people think you need a good expensive scope to shoot tight groups. That isn't how it works. If your $30 Bushnell Sportview holds zero, has no parallax, it can shoot just as tight groups as any other scope. A $300 fixed SWFA 10x would be fine to 1k+ yards. This. Here’s Henry shooting a Rem 700 with an SWFA 10x to 1100 yards like a boss:  R700 5R to 1,100yds/ .308Win: Practical Accuracy (Remington M40 M24 sniper base + SWFA 10x42) I’ve got basically this same setup and before watching this video I always figured I’d need to upgrade my scope. I don’t think that now. I now know I need to hone my skills as the hardware is more than capable. |
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Posted: 1/18/2021 1:42:31 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MS556: There is also the Vortex Diamondback Tactical 6-24x50 FFP, available in either mil/mil or moa/moa matching tactical turrets and useful Christmas tree type reticle. This is a budget-friendly tactical/long range scope. It has some limitations but will let a capable rife and ammo combo shoot tight groups at 600-800 yards - if light is good. The glass is only so-so, but good enough to perform well if light is good. It has a screw-on front screen which helps. It does give some fine detail resolving to high end scope as range increases. There is some modest flare and some mild chromatic aberration defect, but this is a $400-450 street price scope. It does track well, the turrets and reticle are accurate. I don't know if you can push it to 1,000 yards, as resolution of detail will get iffy that far out. I have used it on a bolt gun to 500 yards in good light and it performed well above my expectations. Its good value value. It now sits on a very accurate 22LR that I use for practice with sub MOA Eley Match ammo. It is a challenge to shoot tight groups with a .22LR beyond 100 yards due to rainbow trajectory and the effect of wind, making practicing hold overs and wind correction hold offs challenging. The scope performed well, accurately dialing elevation and windage or using the reticle. It will not replace a much more expensive target scope, but performed surprisingly well. Only real criticism I have beyond so-so glass (good at the price point, though) is the absence of illumination and the somewhat mushy feel of the turrets. They have soft, somewhat indistinct clicks, but they are accurate and repeatable. There is no zero stop or zero lock, but that would be uncommon at its price point. I would gladly give up any attempt at illumination, as did Vortex, in favor of building more quality into true tracking, usable long range FFP reticle, and good glass for an under $500 scope. Here is how it looks on the Remington 541S .22LR. Its ideal for this role, and acceptable for centerfire shooting out to 600-800 yards if light is good. https://i.postimg.cc/mkCynFN5/4-FE0359-B-F63-D-443-B-B343-58-AEB8844-BD4.jpg The reticle (this scope is moa/moa): https://i.postimg.cc/431pJhB9/56-F6-D574-B8-B2-453-C-A98-E-137-ABC1876-B2.png The blur is from the stock photo I tried to download Vortex's website. It is sharp in reality. Thanks for the writeup. Not to take away from that, I couldn't justify trying to save the money with that compared to a Viper PST. My neighbor got one of those against my "buy once, cry once" warning. He made it two range trips before upgrading to a PST. Not that PSTs are great optics by any means, but they break into the high-end quality, I'd consider them "inexpensive". The diamondback to pst isn't even a comparison, it's like the DB has dog crap smeared on the lens. Anecdote; met a fella at a class with some Athlon that was around $500. Same thing. I tried looking at the 1400yd target, could hardly see it. Out of my PST on 12x, it was just a little blurry. In today's market/value, I figure you get $1/yd for a typical LR type scope. I'd say the PST 3-15 is good for 800 formal, 1k informal, and I've shot it in good conditions past 1400, where you definitely feel lacking. At 1200yds before the sun was fully up, I got the same feeling. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 5/18/2022 10:23:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: tet493]
[#19]
No one likes Primary Arms’ 4-14x Slx?
Edit: Slx |
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Posted: 5/18/2022 10:34:37 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tet493: No one likes Primary Arms’ 4-14x Plx? Doubt it... seeing as PA doesn’t make a 4-14x PLx |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 5/18/2022 10:41:20 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Millennial: Doubt it... seeing as PA doesn’t make a 4-14x PLx Reply fits your username lol *Slx |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 11/17/2022 2:13:02 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wombat: https://swfa.com/swfa-ss-20x42-tactical-30mm-riflescope-6.html That is about as cheap as I would go for what you requested. Ranging reticle does not matter for shooting groups. You will want 20x to maybe a bit more for this. My first 1,000 yard scope was a SWFA SS 10x42. Worked just fine. A 10x will give you a brighter image If I was starting today, I would look at Arken Optics. The 4-16x is plenty of magnification |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 9:10:17 AM EDT
[#23]
Quality ammo will be more important than an expensive scope, at least at 600 yards and out.
You should spend at least as much on your scope as you did for the rifle. A quality fixed power 10X scope actually works very well and was the US Armed Forces standard before money was no object. Schmidt-Bender made a great fixed power PMII 10X scope, now its been discontinued. Really high magnification is "jumpy" in field conditions, they work fine off a bench. Sightron made excellent scopes in fixed power, 10X, 16X and 20X, I believe they have been discontinued as well. I use fixed power (24X Leupold and 36X Weaver) target scopes for load development off a bench. You can buy excellent fixed power scopes for a lot cheaper than quality 3-15 or similar adjustable magnification optics. |
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