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Link Posted: 5/9/2024 2:00:18 AM EDT
[#1]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FlashMan-7k:

You're forgetting something.

Consent.

We didn't consent for it to be broadcast. We aren't allowed to control if we do.
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Originally Posted By FlashMan-7k:
Originally Posted By Kharn:
If you broadcast it freely with no expectation of privacy, no warrant is required to record it.

Kharn

You're forgetting something.

Consent.

We didn't consent for it to be broadcast. We aren't allowed to control if we do.

Root your phone and turn it off.

Kharn
Link Posted: 5/9/2024 2:29:29 AM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Kharn:

Root your phone and turn it off.

Kharn
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Originally Posted By Kharn:
Originally Posted By FlashMan-7k:
Originally Posted By Kharn:
If you broadcast it freely with no expectation of privacy, no warrant is required to record it.

Kharn

You're forgetting something.

Consent.

We didn't consent for it to be broadcast. We aren't allowed to control if we do.

Root your phone and turn it off.

Kharn

Rooting: That's not a fix for 99% of the people out there (and you also can't touch the carrier side).

Turn it off: well, yeah. Ish. Paranoia level if you do or don't trust that.
Link Posted: 5/9/2024 5:08:06 AM EDT
[#3]
Link Posted: 5/9/2024 5:37:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: mnvwguy02] [#4]
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Originally Posted By killstick_engaged:
Loyal citizens subjects have nothing to hide
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FIFY
Link Posted: 5/9/2024 6:19:08 AM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CypressCity:
So turn your bluetooth off before you smuggle drugs across the border folks. defend your nation from foreign invaders.

Also, if you are going to shoot a wolf in CO, make sure to leave your phone at home.
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Fixed
Link Posted: 5/9/2024 8:33:43 AM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FlashMan-7k:

GPS when you turn off, accelerometer data when out of contact, GPS when you turn on. ETA: and a clock.
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Originally Posted By FlashMan-7k:
Originally Posted By cedjunior:
Originally Posted By planemaker:
Originally Posted By FlashMan-7k:
Originally Posted By CypressCity:
Originally Posted By FlashMan-7k:

If you think that stuff is only in the border and will only be used there .... I have a bridge in brooklyn to sell you on the cheap.

At this point, I wouldn't trust the device if I couldn't pull it's only power source out.

I suspect that's why we're starting to see phones like pine and purism with switches that physically turn those functions off.


yeah, or get a good faraday bag.

Even if the bag works as advertised, if your device has an accelerometer inside it, as soon as you pull it out of the bag, it can squawk where it was to the network.

Also, fun stuff like ... you can bet the boys at TAO are working like mad to implment reading your fingerprint off your touchscreens and grabbing all that info out of the archives to add biometric confirmation to the backlogs:

https://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=2708255&tl=-ARCHIVED-THREAD-Your-fingerprints-can-be-recreated-from-the-sounds-made-when-you-swipe-on-a-touchscreen

https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/cyber-security/your-fingerprints-can-be-recreated-from-the-sounds-made-when-you-swipe-on-a-touchscreen-researchers-new-side-channel-attack-can-reproduce-partial-fingerprints-to-enable-attacks

https://www.ndss-symposium.org/wp-content/uploads/2024-618-paper.pdf

... stuff like this is why every vehicle that has these signals is said to be trackable across the entire globe.

ETA: The point is that the only way to even begin to win the game is not to play it at all.

https://i.stack.imgur.com/q96zH.png


No offense but accelerometers (and magnetometers) that are in cell phones are not even remotely good enough to be able to track where you've been more than a minute or two. Their drift rate is just too high. It's why phones used as autopilots use GPS to correct the INS solution (and even the open-source autopilots that have better accelerometers and magnetometers than most cell phones also use GPS).

Accelerometers register that there's been movement and that's it.  It doesn't record the previous location and the new location in any way that can be shown on a map like GPS.

GPS when you turn off, accelerometer data when out of contact, GPS when you turn on. ETA: and a clock.

lol no
Link Posted: 5/9/2024 8:38:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: BeerMan95] [#7]
Originally Posted By FlashMan-7k:
https://www.techspot.com/news/102923-bluetooth-snooping-tech-texas-cops-monitor-devices-borders.html

If you've been anywhere near the Texas-Mexico border recently with a phone, wireless earbuds, or any other Bluetooth-enabled gadget, there's a chance the feds were keeping tabs on you. At least two counties in the Lone Star State have implemented an incredibly invasive surveillance system that detects and tracks devices by tapping into their Bluetooth signals.

The technology, called TraffiCatch, comes from a German company called Jenoptik. It enables law enforcement to essentially detect any Bluetooth and Wi-Fi signals in the area and log the unique identifiers broadcast by those devices, according to publicly available contract data uncovered by the news outlet NOTUS. By combining that data with automated license plate readers already deployed all along the border, TraffiCatch can theoretically track people's movements, even if they switch vehicles.

Webb County, home to the border city of Laredo, has reportedly had this Bluetooth tracking capability since at least 2019.

The technology works by capturing Bluetooth addresses that are periodically broadcasted by all Bluetooth devices. Some devices use static addresses that never change, making them easy to track persistently. But even gadgets using rotating random addresses can potentially be correlated over time if the person is also carrying a device with a public address.

Jenoptik essentially presents TraffiCatch as a tool for law enforcement to "locate persons of interest related to recorded crimes in the area" by merging vehicle plate data with detected Bluetooth signals. However, the system doesn't discriminate – it can capture any Bluetooth emissions within range from innocent bystanders as well.

This significant expansion of surveillance state overreach in border communities was made possible, in part, thanks to funding from Operation Stonegarden, a federal grant program that incentivizes local police departments to assist border patrol efforts. Last year alone, Stonegarden awarded $90 million to law enforcement agencies in Texas and other border states.

We've already seen how Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) deployed Stingray devices, which masquerade as legitimate cell towers to trick phones into connecting and revealing their locations and identities. Adding Bluetooth tracking into the mix just adds another highly intrusive and indiscriminate monitoring capability to border communities already subjected to disproportionate over-policing.

So the next time you're wandering around these border areas, you might want to consider turning off your gadgets' connectivity features – unless, of course, you're comfortable with Big Brother tracking your movements.
View Quote


The technology, called TraffiCatch, comes from a German company called Jenoptik. It enables law enforcement to essentially detect any Bluetooth and Wi-Fi signals in the area and log the unique identifiers broadcast by those devices, according to publicly available contract data uncovered by the news outlet NOTUS. By combining that data with automated license plate readers already deployed all along the border, TraffiCatch can theoretically track people's movements, even if they switch vehicles.

Webb County, home to the border city of Laredo, has reportedly had this Bluetooth tracking capability since at least 2019.

The technology works by capturing Bluetooth addresses that are periodically broadcasted by all Bluetooth devices. Some devices use static addresses that never change, making them easy to track persistently. But even gadgets using rotating random addresses can potentially be correlated over time if the person is also carrying a device with a public address.

Jenoptik essentially presents TraffiCatch as a tool for law enforcement to "locate persons of interest related to recorded crimes in the area" by merging vehicle plate data with detected Bluetooth signals. However, the system doesn't discriminate – it can capture any Bluetooth emissions within range from innocent bystanders as well.


Everyone has their persons and paper tracked and searched, if you come under their umbrellla. No warrants at all. Everyone treated as a criminal.

And it's not just your cell phones.
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2024/05/add-bluetooth-long-list-border-surveillance-technologies
A new report from news outlet NOTUS shows that at least two Texas counties along the U.S.-Mexico border have purchased a product that would allow law enforcement to track devices that emit Bluetooth signals, including cell phones, smartwatches, wireless earbuds, and car entertainment systems. This incredibly personal model of tracking is the latest level of surveillance infrastructure along the U.S.-Mexico border—where communities are not only exposed to a tremendous amount of constant monitoring, but also serves as a laboratory where law enforcement agencies at all levels of government test new technologies.

The product now being deployed in Texas, called TraffiCatch, can detect wifi and Bluetooth signals in moving cars to track them. Webb County, which includes Laredo, has had TraffiCatch technology since at least 2019, according to GovSpend procurement data. Val Verde County, which includes Del Rio, approved the technology in 2022.  


How?

This data collection is possible because all Bluetooth devices regularly broadcast a Bluetooth Device Address. This address can be either a public address or a random address. Public addresses don’t change for the lifetime of the device, making them the easiest to track. Random addresses are more common and have multiple levels of privacy, but for the most part change regularly (this is the case with most modern smartphones and products like AirTags.)
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Ik state DOTs do this for tracking highway traffic (source cousin who works for the agency) I imagine fed bois would have access to the same if not more intrusive, I forget to mention your car also has it so they aim for cars first or phone if older vehicles
Link Posted: 5/9/2024 10:30:42 AM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ebolinux:


How do you go about requesting from all those companies that information?
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@Ebolinux

They all have websites (except maybe your ISP).  It may take a long time to get the results.  IIRC, Amazon was several weeks, maybe a month.  I had forgotten about the request, then I got an email with a link...I was shocked with the download turned out to be massive zip file.

Amazon request for all personal information
Apple
Google
Link Posted: 5/9/2024 10:43:41 AM EDT
[#9]
For the love of god someone please explain to me how GPS is "tracking" me.

better yet, I've got an AM radio on my desk.. if someone can give my exact location I'll donate $10,000 to the charity of their choice.

I'll even post the frequency it's turned to if you need it..
Link Posted: 5/9/2024 10:46:33 AM EDT
[#10]
Did I make it before the boomers that said they don’t use Bluetooth?
Link Posted: 5/9/2024 11:03:37 AM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FlashMan-7k:
This.

This right here.

That is the most ignorant and destructive thing that's usually said in these discussions and the cause of more grief than almost anything else.

It is more ignorant of human nature than literal communism.

It's dumber than thinking everyone will work if you give everyone a wage for not working.

We live with human beings, not angels.

Stop being stupid.
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Originally Posted By FlashMan-7k:
Originally Posted By NAK:
Just assume you are always being watched, tracked, and you devices are being monitored. If you are worried about it, then you are probably doing something illegal or immoral.
This.

This right here.

That is the most ignorant and destructive thing that's usually said in these discussions and the cause of more grief than almost anything else.

It is more ignorant of human nature than literal communism.

It's dumber than thinking everyone will work if you give everyone a wage for not working.

We live with human beings, not angels.

Stop being stupid.


Maybe "doing something illegal or immoral" is the wrong way to put it.  It may be more concise to say people are worried they may be held accountable for their own actions...a concept that is absolutely foreign to several generations.

I believe that what goes on in one's home should be private. Once you step (physically or electronically) outside of your home, you interact and impact others and some/most of that expectation of privacy is not longer valid.  

Given what I have learned about human nature in my lifetime, the collection of data does not bother me.  Knowing that your digital footprint is out there serves as a much needed moderator of human behavior...after all, we are not angles.  My concerns are around access to and misuse of that data...an area in which that our government, and some corporations, have gotten out of control.

Link Posted: 5/9/2024 11:35:41 AM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tifosi:
Didn't the Scotus already declare that 100 miles inland of any US border is a Constitution free zone?
Something like 2/3 of the countries population falls into that zone.
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LMAO, no
Link Posted: 5/9/2024 11:46:03 AM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ApacheScout:
Something tells me this isn't used to stop illegals from pouring across the border but will be used against Americans.
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well, since they aren't stopping illegals crossing the border, they are using it for something.

My bet is that it isn't just at the border.
Link Posted: 5/9/2024 11:50:17 AM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By right_rudder:
For the love of god someone please explain to me how GPS is "tracking" me.

better yet, I've got an AM radio on my desk.. if someone can give my exact location I'll donate $10,000 to the charity of their choice.

I'll even post the frequency it's turned to if you need it..
View Quote


A person leaves GPS turned on on the phone. The phone & apps collect that detailed GPS information. Information gets sent to company(s) etc.
Link Posted: 5/9/2024 11:54:35 AM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ApacheScout:
Something tells me this isn't used to stop illegals from pouring across the border but will be used against Americans.
View Quote


I agree with the above.
Link Posted: 5/9/2024 12:32:10 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ebolinux:


A person leaves GPS turned on on the phone. The phone & apps collect that detailed GPS information. Information gets sent to company(s) etc.
View Quote
That's not GPS tracking you. And as a side note, you're not "Leaving GPS on".
to do so would result in an hour and a half battery life.

What you're describing is the app requesting current location and logging it.
Link Posted: 5/9/2024 12:58:53 PM EDT
[#17]
With a 33 foot range? Press X for doubt.

Nick
Link Posted: 5/9/2024 1:27:55 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cedjunior:

lol no
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Originally Posted By cedjunior:
Originally Posted By FlashMan-7k:
Originally Posted By cedjunior:
Originally Posted By planemaker:
Originally Posted By FlashMan-7k:
Originally Posted By CypressCity:
Originally Posted By FlashMan-7k:

If you think that stuff is only in the border and will only be used there .... I have a bridge in brooklyn to sell you on the cheap.

At this point, I wouldn't trust the device if I couldn't pull it's only power source out.

I suspect that's why we're starting to see phones like pine and purism with switches that physically turn those functions off.


yeah, or get a good faraday bag.

Even if the bag works as advertised, if your device has an accelerometer inside it, as soon as you pull it out of the bag, it can squawk where it was to the network.

Also, fun stuff like ... you can bet the boys at TAO are working like mad to implment reading your fingerprint off your touchscreens and grabbing all that info out of the archives to add biometric confirmation to the backlogs:

https://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=2708255&tl=-ARCHIVED-THREAD-Your-fingerprints-can-be-recreated-from-the-sounds-made-when-you-swipe-on-a-touchscreen

https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/cyber-security/your-fingerprints-can-be-recreated-from-the-sounds-made-when-you-swipe-on-a-touchscreen-researchers-new-side-channel-attack-can-reproduce-partial-fingerprints-to-enable-attacks

https://www.ndss-symposium.org/wp-content/uploads/2024-618-paper.pdf

... stuff like this is why every vehicle that has these signals is said to be trackable across the entire globe.

ETA: The point is that the only way to even begin to win the game is not to play it at all.

https://i.stack.imgur.com/q96zH.png


No offense but accelerometers (and magnetometers) that are in cell phones are not even remotely good enough to be able to track where you've been more than a minute or two. Their drift rate is just too high. It's why phones used as autopilots use GPS to correct the INS solution (and even the open-source autopilots that have better accelerometers and magnetometers than most cell phones also use GPS).

Accelerometers register that there's been movement and that's it.  It doesn't record the previous location and the new location in any way that can be shown on a map like GPS.

GPS when you turn off, accelerometer data when out of contact, GPS when you turn on. ETA: and a clock.

lol no

Are you saying that phones don't have these things?

... and do you expect people to believe you because you did the internet version of point and giggle?
Link Posted: 5/9/2024 1:31:18 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By right_rudder:
For the love of god someone please explain to me how GPS is "tracking" me.

better yet, I've got an AM radio on my desk.. if someone can give my exact location I'll donate $10,000 to the charity of their choice.

I'll even post the frequency it's turned to if you need it..
View Quote

You of all people should know better than to be this silly, even if you're being suspiciously specific.

Devices with GPS that touch networks or emit RF ... and worse, emit a UID are trackable.

Devices with no gps that do the same are still trackable. Which is what the article was all about.

I don't have the link on hand but IIRC white house staff are not normally allowed to use bluetooth devices because it's trackable and otherwise emits.
Link Posted: 5/9/2024 1:32:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: victorgonzales] [#20]
Not much you can do about it other than not use your Bluetooth. So if they want to track me around town so I can listen to music that's fine.   If I ever decide to do revolutionary shit I'm gonna leave my phone at home and stealing someone else's car to get there
Link Posted: 5/9/2024 2:52:06 PM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FlashMan-7k:

You of all people should know better than to be this silly, even if you're being suspiciously specific.

Devices with GPS that touch networks or emit RF ... and worse, emit a UID are trackable.

Devices with no gps that do the same are still trackable. Which is what the article was all about.

I don't have the link on hand but IIRC white house staff are not normally allowed to use bluetooth devices because it's trackable and otherwise emits.
View Quote
You're missing my point and even your reply is what I'm illustrating.
Some in this thread are conflating different things and technologies to arrive at a conclusion.

Not all network pings are an interrogation. Meaning, just because something captures a signal doesn't mean it has some UUID/Serial number.

The point I was making was addressing things I've seen here and in other threads.. GPS is a passive service. To use it you receive (not send) information. Simply having a GPS receiver (on or off) cannot give away your position or information about you.

The feds don't need to scan Bluetooth or RFID or anything else. All they have to do is monitor the connections from the vast array of cell sites along the border.. and most don't realize, the ones on the other side (but adjacent to) the border are US company sites as well.

Link Posted: 5/9/2024 2:55:04 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NAK:


@Ebolinux

They all have websites (except maybe your ISP).  It may take a long time to get the results.  IIRC, Amazon was several weeks, maybe a month.  I had forgotten about the request, then I got an email with a link...I was shocked with the download turned out to be massive zip file.

Amazon request for all personal information
Apple
Google
View Quote


Your ISP most likely will not provide this request outside of a court ordered subpoena. I use to work directly with these subpoenas when working for one of the big 3 ISP's.
Link Posted: 5/9/2024 10:44:30 PM EDT
[#23]
Originally Posted By 10mmManiac:


Your ISP most likely will not provide this request outside of a court ordered subpoena. I use to work directly with these subpoenas when working for one of the big 3 ISP's.
View Quote


I use Frontier Fios. The process to request you info is on there website and Google finds it easily.

Frontier Personal Information Request
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