User Panel
Posted: 3/23/2006 12:50:24 PM EDT
The official learn to remodel thread. No $100,000 tools or unreasonable expectations, this is stuff we can ALL do ourselves with just a small investment in tools. Here is where we can all gather to learn to save money, do a high-quality job ourselves, and be proud of our finished product.
Brought to you by me. Y’all asked for it, so away we go! Stay tuned for updates, which I will be posting here rather than editing the original post. So, you are thinking of a possible kitchen or bathroom remodel? What about installing some carpet? Or that sheetrock repair needed? New GFCI devices? Oh sure, you COULD pay someone to do it for you, but where is the fun and pride in that? Not to mention the $45 per hour labor fees! That’s a LOT of ammo folks. In this thread, we’re going to walk through, step by step, with pictures, how easy it is to do these things yourself. We’ll cover planning, prices, material differences, tear out, installation, and considerations. And I have the perfect little shit hole apartment to make an example of. Now, I know there are a lot of you out there that are professionals in a dedicated field (IE, tile, carpet, or trim carpentry). I welcome suggestions, but please try not to shit on my thread. I am a professional electrician by trade, but I can also do many things on my own. I am trying to help save the members money by showing them that these things can be done by the average Joe with average tools, and there are bound to be mistakes. Point them out and correct me as necessary, but try not to be a dick, OK? I will answer any questions here, in the thread, where others can learn from the questions and responses. Alright, it’s time to get our hands dirty with carnage and style. I present to my Arfcom brethren the richardh247 step-by-step DIY turn a shit hole into a nice apartment thread. Obviously, a good set of basic hand tools is necessary here. If you have the dollar store Betty Rubble 6 ounce tack hammer, do yourself a favor and stick it up a liberal’s ass. You can’t do a proper job without the proper tools. I’ll go through tools as we move along, rather than compiling a list here. Construction, especially remodels, is like that – you never REALLY know what you need until you need it. Guys like me will have 6 or 7 different hammers for different things and all the power tools we can justify. But that’s not necessary for most of you. Just a decent set of quality tools. Most of the other types of tools you’ll see here can be rented at the local Home Depot (like a tile saw). But you should do some research. For instance, a tile saw at the Depot rents for 24 hours for about $30. But you can buy one just like mine for $100. The size of your project will determine if you would benefit from renting or purchasing, but some things are simply not cost effective to own. A power stretcher, for instance, is about a thousand bucks. So I just rent one for $40 per job and build the cost into my bid. And you’re a hack if you do carpet by kicking it in. |
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First things first.
No project should ever even begin without a detailed plan. In this case, I have a contract to do this remodel with a $2,000 budget (not including my labor, which is none of yall’s business). For that money, here’s what we are going to do: Install carpet and pad in the living room and bedroom. Install ceramic tile countertops and backsplashes in the kitchen and bathroom. Install ceramic tile floors in the kitchen, bathroom, and hallway. Install new light fixtures and electrical fixtures. Install new baseboards. Repair and patch all the sheetrock. Texture and paint the walls. Finally, we’ll make it ready for rent and sit back with a cold one, enjoying the fruits of our labor, and be ready for the next DIY installment. So, we have some needed information already. We have a material budget and we have a list of what needs to be done, and we’ll have a decent set of basic tools. Now, we need to prioritize. Where do we start? In construction, flooring is ALWAYS last for obvious reasons: traffic, paint, material debris, etc. But floors are the first thing the eye catches. So you want to price your flooring and countertops first, in that order. Once you know the price of your flooring material, the rest of the budget is easily allocated. Now, I need to mention this: This is an apartment I am doing, so I am looking for several factors in my material choice. There are typically three grades we use to assign a budget to a bid. Those are cheap, medium, and high quality. The objective for apartment renovations is to find durable materials that will last, but are cheap. So I use a tile annex, which is available to the general public. I choose medium colorations to avoid staining, and look at replacement costs, ease of installing, and initial cost. Typically, assignments are as follows: below $2 a square foot is cheap; $2 to $4 a square foot is considered medium; and above that is high. I try to always go medium… Easier to work with, and lasts longer, but still affordable. But that is not an option with my budget for this job (owner demand, not mine). So, I am planning on $1 per tile. That’s $1 per square foot for the flooring (12 x 12) and about $1.30 for the counters (8 x 8). I am making that up by installing high quality borders. I am using glazed bullnose and actual drip edge. The carpet is medium grade over 80# pad. See, the edges are the critical consideration for tile. That’s where the majority of the abuse happens, and they are the most difficult to replace/repair. So if the body of the tile gets burnt (likely), I can spend $1 to replace the tile. But the edges take 3 times the amount of time and effort to replace, so I go high quality ($2 for each 2” x 8” piece, or about $6.50 per square installed foot). The body and floors, then, are cheap, but offset in the cost so that the installation is actually medium. My edges will then hold up MUCH longer than tiles that get hot pans set on them and standing water. Ready to go? Great! First step next post. |
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First step: figure out all the materials you’ll need, then go to the Depot and price them out. Use a higher tax rate, which protects your budget in case you need to grab another box of nails or something. That’s bid integrity.
Measure twice. I measure and then lay everything out on graph paper so I have both the square foot numbers and the per tile/per foot/per area numbers. Then, you can compare them to make certain everything matches. If they do not, your averaging is off and you need the higher number. It’s the little things in a project that will get you. Don’t account for a few small things, like nails and calk and glue, and you’ll RUIN your budget. I promise you. Open an Excel spreadsheet, and categorize EVERYTHING. Don’t worry if you forget a few things, because we all do. Just try and be as detailed as possible. For instance: when you find the new sink and faucet you want, don’t stop there. What are the new strainers going to cost? The plumber’s putty? New drain and supply lines? New shut off valves? You get the idea. These little things can easily double what you expected to spend, not to mention the time and gas to drive and pick up “that one little thing I forgot.” It messes up your rhythm and will break your bank. I priced the carpet and pad. Don’t forget pad glue, tack strip, seam tape, pad tape, concrete nails, power stretcher rental, transition materials, razor blades (carpet blades are expensive), and that stair tool you need. The carpet price just doubled. These little things are vitally important. OK, so you now should have a good idea what your remodel idea is going to cost. Add 10%, at least. I add 15%. What if you break a tile and they stopped carrying that line? You need reserve materials. Now you should be covered for cost. Next, look at what you can afford, and decide where you need to go cheaper or more expensive. Finalize all of this and know WHAT you’re buying, WHEN you are going to buy it, and WHERE you are going to store it until installation time is at hand. I completed this on what’s called a “plotting and solutions” spreadsheet, but notebook paper and prior planning is all you need. So for this, we are going to start with walls and tear out. Then we’ll texture and paint. Then we’ll tackle the countertops. Then floor tile. Finally, carpet. In the next post, we’re going to look at the actual apartment itself, just as the prior tenants left it. We’ll haul away the trash for a nice, clean working environment, and then have the power turned on. This is very important: a clean job site that is well lit is golden, but a dirty jobsite leads to accidents, broken materials, and general frustration trying to maneuver around a bunch of crap every cut you make. Keep your area clean, organized, and free from clutter. Clean up daily, or even twice daily after lunch breaks. Get a radio to jam out on. OK, the introductions are over. It is time to start this job, and I hope y’all learn that all this is something you, too, can do yourself. Save some money in labor, and have fun! In the next installment here, we’ll look at pictures and measurements of the actual apartment itself. Then, day-to-day, I’ll return here to update the steps. I’ll do the best explanations possible, but please ask questions as you need and I will check back to answer. Tag this thread for progress updates if you want to learn to be your own contractor. |
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tag
Having a detailed plan upfront saves a ton a time...I'm learning that the hard way. |
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The more detailed the better! I schedule all my jobs like this. I know which employee is going to be doing what every day until scheduled completion. I can tell you which box of tile is stored where, what I paid for it, and where it is destined to be installed. I don't pick up a tool until I have pages of information, a signed contract, and a plan of action. BTW, just as an aside, the actual owner of the property of this remodel is a member here, LOL. So he'll be watching my every post as we go from hole in the wall to finished apartment. Since he's the man writing the checks, you had best believe there won't be any corner cutting. You'll learn it, and learn to do it right. First set of pictures coming up in 15 minutes. That place is fucking nasty. BTW, you people who rent? At least take the fucking food OUT the frige and throw it away when you have the power shut off. Common courtesy, folks. Nothing like walking into a vacant apartment and gagging from maggot-infested food. Nasty bastards. Place smells like a landfill. Any way, first set of pictures due up real soon. Stand by! |
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Tag
CauseI built my own house, and I want to see where this goes. |
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Hey, the 1970's called and they want their hammers back. These days we use nail guns. You should try them. They are so much better. Really. |
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This thread is worthless without pics. I hope you plan to post them!
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Thank you in advance for doing this. Advice from a pro on this kind of stuff, with all the 'details" added, is absolutely priceless. You won't find this at the Depot!
And tag! ETA Nail guns are great...I have 4...but hammers can do things nail guns simply cannot do. They will never become obsolete. |
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I have plenty of those, from drawer staplers to framing nailers (collated and non). But even though I will be using them, it is designed so that people with a generic set of tools can see the ease of doing it themselves without $500 compressors and $300 nail guns. I want Joe Blow with $200 in hand tools to know they can do this. And that's the problem with those DIY shows... It's all about advertising. "Hey, you want to do this? Go get yourself this latest and greatest!" Horseshit. I can be done, and done right, with basic tools. But yeah, they are a real life-saver! So is a layout template, but I can still do rise and run with a framing square from Ace hardware bought for $20 Laser levels, pnuematic tools, location devices, etc are great if you do this for a living. But the everage Joe who just wants a new tile counter doesn't need to invest in that kind of hardware. When I first started framing in '93, we had a hammer, a cat's paw, and no fall protection, LOL. Gotta love walking the feather boards and truss unions! That was some fun shit. But anyway, yeah, I'll be using them... I have a timeline. But are they NECESSARY? Hardly. Everyone should start at the basics. |
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This is a $550 per month apartment. Don't expect the type of material quality you put into your house. Money and investing doesn't work that way. But I'll do my best to make you proud, bro! Now, I need to get these pics uploaded, hosted, and posted. |
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Awesome thread!! Wish you had done it before I built the new control room in my basement!!
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tag - Tile - my last frontier as a lanlord and remodeler!!
yipeeee! |
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Very cool. I'm looking forward to hitting refresh on this thread quite a bit. Thanks Rich.
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Hey I am getting ready to gut my kitchen here at home. Will watch and maybe learn a thing or two. Already did one in my last house so not to worried on this one.
Echap |
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Welcome to world of owning a property management company. "Midnight move outs" are the worst, because they KNOW we are going to nail their ass in court. Why do they care about what it looks like when they are getting a judgment, anyway? Bastards have no responisbility or concern but what they can get away with. I'd love to tell you what we are pursuing in damages, but the case is open - me no can speaky. It's more than 99% of most people make in several months. I hope they show up to testify. The fradulent checks I recovered and traced should make the judge nice and happy, LOL. Stupid fucks. Normally our lawyer does all litigation, but I am going to be there for this one to recover even more because of the WAY they went about this, rather than the simple screwing they intended. |
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I did property management for years so I know how they can be left, but I still can't believe the way some people are. Had a guy pour oatmeal into all the cabinets and drawers once and let it dry before he moved out. One apartment was so filthy, there were little pot plants growing out of the carpet behind where the couch was. |
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OK, that's fucking nasty. A story of my own, and then I have more pics (not of this incident). Firest, understand I go NOWHERE unarmed, and when I go this property I have "other" tools for the scumbags that frequent the alley as well as my 45. Had a vacancy with a detached laundry room. So we drive up there for the routine check I do daily, and I notice something funky with the storage/washing room to this apartment. Someone had broken into it. Oh, wait, dickhead is still there! OK, so I kick him and yell, "Hey, mother fucker, get your fucking ass off my fucking property or I'm going to beat you!" No response. Shit. OKay, another try. Whip out my Asp and poke the little bastard. "Dude, you have three fucking seconds before I fuck you up!" [slapping with asp on leg]. Dude! Dude? Wonderful. Dead homeless guy. Right? Nope. Fucker gets up and mumbles something, and I again tell him if he isn't gone in a few seconds I'm going to kick his ass. The police have already been called, but PPD is 1/2 an hour away, at best. Home boy leaves, and I go in there. He had pissed and shit in the corner Yeah, I hired that clean up out, LOL. Found his little camp stove, needle, and pipe. Dude must have had a great night, freebasing AND slamming. The turd pile was about 12" high |
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For those interested in some half way entertaining tv shows on fixing and flipping properties there are two shows on right now one called "Property Ladder" and the other is called "Flip This House". Of course they are based in California where the prices are outragous and the gross profits seem huge until you start figuring in all the fees.
It seems like half the shows are good stories where someone comes a place that needs cosmetic work, comes up with a decent plan, runs into a couple problems, but in then turns out a beautiful house and makes some money. The other half are train wrecks. People that have no clue, usually artsy type liberals that are full of themselves, buy a place and think they will make a ton of money on it because they love creating warmth and are good at matching colors. Seriously, that is what they say on tv on why they will be successful on rehabbing a house! Usually the first day they own the house they come in and knock out two exterior walls because they want to expand the closets! Then when the highly recommended contractors tell them they need permits they fire the contractors and find a stranger who says they will do the work without a permit. For some reason these projects always go on 4 times longer than orginally expected and usually grind to a halt somewhere in the middle because they ran out of money. Overall the shows are decent, they are only 30 minutes and it moves quick from buying, to covering what they want to do to, to the demo, to the problems they run into, to the finishing touches, to trying to sell it. |
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Just a word of encouragement.
I'm sure many here will appreciate your efforts for this. and offer plenty of criticism along the way. |
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Tag.
Excellent thread. I plan on remodelling my family room, bathroom and kitchen counters this year and I am a noob to it all. |
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How cool is this!?
I just bought a house that has been closed up for 7 years. Can you say spider webs? I took a few pix before even starting. Hardwood floors everywhere BUT in the kitchen. 1970s countertops and REAL WOOD cabinets. The tounge and groove flooring is 1.5 inch thick OAK. I only need to replace about a dozen planks. It took me 2 days just to get the staples out of the floor in the main part and one bedroom. I will get to the other 2 bedrooms as I can. I also have to move from my rental to the house, so I have to get moved in THEN remodel, that sux, but o well it is a cool old house. I too will post pix as I go. I am building a new counter top and back splashes as soon as I can get to VA to get my sink I "aquired" a few years ago, SS with 150.00 fixtures . Kitchen is going to be black/white/ and SS. Since the Kitchen is only 100 sq feet I will be using 6x6 ceramic tile in a diamond layout. I think anything bigger will make it look smaller. Agree? Black doors with white cabs, and SS hardware. One office, one gun room and one romping rumpus room . The bathroom already has in great shape, 1960s two tone green 1" tile and cast iron tub ( will get refinished). I am taking out 2 of the 3 cabintes and putting a urinal in, anyone in NC got an extra for sale? Dont ask why, but I am used to peeing in a urinal and I like it Not sure what else to do YET, but it will look cool. |
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I just finished a complete remodel about a year ago now.
Great thread idea. |
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Nice work DVDTracker.
Can I ask your cost on insulation,drywall and materials for your garage? I plan on doing the garage this summer also. |
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Great thread, I love doing home improvement stuff even though they always seem to end up being a PIA!
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