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[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By BB:
the OP should contain what makes a correct AR15A4 M16A4 clone like the cool kid clone threads.

One could probably write a fair sized book on all the changes that have been made to the M16A4 as a weapon system over time, so you can understand that it's somewhat difficult to do a write up to the effect of: "This is what constitutes an M16A4 clone..."

I sure someone will be along shortly to either refute or amend some of this, as I'm far from what I would consider to be a subject matter expert on it all, though I'll give it a try...

In regards to the M16A4, I generally view the weapon as having 3 distinct eras: "Early A4s", "The War Years" (to include US Army & Marine Corps variants), & "Modern Era A4s".

Early 'A4s...(July '97 - Sep '99)

Officially, the M16A4 was adopted on July 29th, 1997, to replace the M16A2 as the standard-issue rifle for both the U.S Army & the US Marine Corps. While there were prototypes rifles (XM16A2E4s) in use on dates before July of '97, their features (grey anodizing or such) are not generally considered when discussing "Early A4" clones.

Early M16A4s are noted by their use of:

M16A2 barrel assemblies (having rifle feed ramped barrel extensions & fixed carry-handle height front sight bases)
Non-"M" or "M4" marked flat-top upper receivers (these early A4 upper receivers did NOT have M4 Feed ramps)
They used peel-washers to time their flash suppressors during most of this period.
Most were delivered to their respective services equipped with standard ("shiny-surfaced") A2 hand guards.
They were delivered with standard detachable carry handle rear sights.
They all used metal trap doors in their A2 stock end plates.
Their safety selectors, while having a "tick" to indicate the mode of operation, were only single-sided (no ambidextrous safeties were in use) & the "lever" itself extended from the edge of the safety rather than from the middle as currently issued ones do.
Their A2 pistol grips also tended to be of a "shinier" black material & the bottom forward "bump" was not as pronounced as currently issued ones (it incorporated a smoother transition to the tip).
While the Parkerizing of the various steel components (Components like the barrel, hand guard retainer cap, flash suppressor, forward assist, rear sights on the detachable carry handle, ect.) were more "grey" in color than they were "black", the upper & lower receivers after the adoption date were anodized to a Type II (black) hard-coat specification. (Someone more knowledgeable than me may know if there were ever actually any "M16A4"s with "grey" receivers, though I know of none that were officially labeled as such.)
Early A4s were known to have used either the US M7, or US M9 bayonet (with early straight tube-style grip).
Sling-use varied between: standard M1-style sling or black A2 "silent" sling, though by sometime @ early '98?, various 3-point slings started showing up in use.
As for side-sling swivels, I'm not certain if it was only a Colt thing or what, but seems like some rifles had them, and others didn't. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will chime in on this.

(Starting @ Oct '98? - early '99?)
A4s started showing up either equipped with, or were modified by the addition of, a KAC M5 Rail Adapter System (RAS).
These early drop-in rails tended to be more "purple" than "black" in color.

(For a short time between Oct '99 to @ early 2003(ish?))
ARMS #59M SIR systems would be seen to be installed on select units' M16A4s.

What I like to call...
"The War Years"...doesn't have so much to do with any particular "war" per se, but is basically from @ 2000 - 2010(ish)

These M16A4s are noted by their use of:

True A4 barrel assemblies having "M4" feed ramped barrel extensions & "F"-marked (detachable carry handle height) front sight bases.
Flat top "M" or "M4" marked upper receivers incorporating "M4" feed ramps.
They used "crush" washers to time their flash suppressors.
Their A2 pistol grips, while still incorporating the earlier tapering of the bottom "bump", were made of a notably less-shiny material.
The steel components (barrel, HG end caps, triggers, ect.) began having more of a true "black" coloring due to changes made in the surface-treatment procedures.
These rifles began being delivered with KAC (or later, P&S Products) M5 rail adapter systems pre-installed from the factory.
They still incorporated metal (aluminum) trap door assembles in their A2 stocks, though the stock-body materials began being produced in a slightly more "grey" color, than the deeper "black" color of earlier models.
Sometime during the later part of this era (@ 2009ish?) ambidextrous safeties started showing up occasionally in use.
Detachable carry handles began to be phased out of deliveries (or packaged separately with the weapon) as A4s began to be shipped out with either no rear iron sights or had Matech back up rear iron sights equipped... Also, KAC 600m? sights were occasionally (though rarely) seen to be used rather than the Matechs during this time period. (May have been KAC 800m sights - my memory is somewhat hazy in this regard)
These rifles were often seen using Surefire M95 & M96-series weapon lights (M951/M952 or M961/M962 models both with & without the use of tape switches) The earliest ones had "wide" bodies (thicker) & "ribbed" head assemblies. Later ones used thinner bodies & had smooth head assemblies. These changes were made in an effort to lighten the accessory weight-wise, at the expense of heat dissipation.
Depending on the AO - Buttstock magazine pouches were often used during this time period. Most were seen to be black in color, though occasionally other color variants like olive drab or camo-patterned colors were used.
Sling use varied dramatically during this period, though most were seen to be of the 3-point type design, usually black in color, though like the stock pouches, were occasionally seen in other color variants. Near the latter part of this period (late 2006ish?), Blue Force Gear 2-point slings began to be seen occasionally in use on A4s.
Also, during this period, many of the standard 30rd magazines with field units were upgraded by the use of Magpul "anti-tilt" followers. Later (circa 2009), the military began procuring their own version of this follower for use in all their future magazine purchases.

US Army variants tended to use Aimpoint M68 red dot sights (Comp M2 earlier, or Comp M3.. maybe Comp M4 for very late models? - I'm not sure exactly when the Comp M4 & M4s models actually started making the rounds)
Us Army variants were also noted to still be using either US M7 or M9 bayonets.

Marine Corps variants usually were noted to be using a Trijicon scope (TA01NSN & TA31-F? models earlier, & TA31RCOA4 models later)
The original TA51 mounts on these optics were at first shipped with knobs facing toward the left side of the weapon. Later this was changed to have the knobs of the TA51 mount face toward the right side. (or was it the other way around?...I can't recall now.)
The Marines started using the OKC3S bayonet with this rifle from @ 2003 onward.

Modern Era M16A4s (Circa 2011(ish) to Present)

These M16A4s are noted by their use of the following:

Their A2 pistol grips have a distinctive "shelf-like" tapering of the bottom "bump" of the grip, as well as a squared-off taper to the top side profile of the grip. Furthermore, these grips tend to be lighter black in color, nearing closer to a "grey-scale" than "black" and have a flat, non-reflective surface finish.
They use one of 3 different types of safeties - The first being like the older format (War Years) safety except that it is reversible for use with South-Paws, the second is an ambidextrous safety that has a shortened lever on the non-dominant (non-thumb) side, and the 3rd is non-ambidextrous safety though the "lever" extends from the center of the safety rather than from the edge of the safety as those of the previous eras.
The trap doors of the A2 stock assemblies, while still using metal retaining latches, are occasionally found to have plastic door bodies rather than the metal (aluminum) bodies of previous eras. (Though I'm not sure if this is an actual change to the A4 specification, or rather some type of screw-up in the supply chain.)
These rifles are delivered with either Matech or KAC rear sights equipped, rather than with detachable carry handles.
They are often seen equipped with either black or coyote colored Blue Force Gear NSN Vickers 2-point slings & mounts, though M1 slings are occasionally seen in use for "parade" or "training" purposes/exercises.
These rifles are almost exclusively used with either the Trijicon TA31RCOA4 scope (for the US Marines), or the Aimpoint M68 (COMP M4 & M4S) red dot sights (for the US Army).
The TA51 mounts used with the Trijicon scopes were, or rather ...are, commonly replaced with LaRue Tactical quick release lever mounts.
As of this posting, I believe there are no longer any A4s that are still equipped with standard A2 hand guards. They should all be equipped with KAC M5 drop-in rails. (That I know of)
Right around this time frame (2010ish), LED lighting began to really make itself known in the weapon light industry, and as such - M16A4s began to be seen with Surefire M952V LED/Infrared convertible weapon lights, or Surefire M600v? LED "Scout" weapon lights in use. (Not sure of the actual Scout model number, though I believe it was in the 600-type series)

Because of the often rapid, constantly changing nature of the use & development of night vision accessories & laser sighting equipment, I have purposefully not touched upon their use with the M16A4 in this posting, and shall leave that to the AR15 community's more knowledgeable fellows to expound upon.

On a side note:
Throughout the last two eras (War Years & Modern), there have been a number of "Field Modifications" (some "approved" & others ...not-so-much) to the M16A4 weapon system. One such modification, has been the replacement of the Standard A2 stock assembly with a collapsible one such as the Lewis Machine & Tool Company (or also B5 Systems) SOPMOD Stock, or the Veltor "A5" stock assembly. While these "Mods" may have been approved for temporary "fielded" use, while so modified, these weapons are generally no longer considered to be classed among other "M16A4s", but rather among the status of "Special Weapons" or unofficially as "M16A5s". Because these weapons (as modified) no longer fit either the physical description or technical specifications of that of an M16A4, clones which are based around these modifications are generally not considered to be among M16A4 "clones".

Maybe later I will go back through this adding a few relevant pictures, but I think this is about the best I can come up with at present, and hopefully it will be enough to help you to sort things out...

Mike (FlDiveCop71)

ETA: This write up, while general in nature, primarily refers to completed M16A4 weapons' configurations as they were delivered to the US military @ the timeframes mentioned, and should not be construed as absolutes as to actual configurations that may be found in the field, either presently or at the aforementioned time periods. While the military supply system may continue to provide newly manufactured components built to outdated specifications, these items are primarily intended & supplied as "replacement" components for older weapons, rather than as revisionary components for newly issued M16A4s. Though some mention is made as to various options & accessories used in association with the M16A4 throughout these periods, please note that these comments are by no means the end-all / be-all of what was either available for use, or actually issued to the troops, but rather that which has been either known personally, or shown through reliable sources to have been used @ these periods. ...FDC71.

Got mine, get em bois.

https://www.apexgunparts.com/colt-ar-15-a2-trap-door-assembly-for-butt-plate-w-thumb-latch-checkered-black-aluminum-new.html

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How about a lightweight "A4-ish clone"? I prefer it in every way to an actual A4 clone.

Me too.
What barrel is that? Looking to do that to my M16A2.

It's a Brownells "retro" barrel in 1/7 twist as made by Ballistic Advantage. I have 6 of them and originally 3 were (still are) going to M16/A1 clones and the other 3 were going to be paired with C7 uppers, but that plan fell through due to my bad luck so now they are likely all going to be lightweight "A4-ish clones".

Not that them being paired with flat top uppers is a bad thing, as the lightweight barrels will really be nice when the weight of an ACOG is added.


Edit: Seems that the Brownells retro 1/7 twist A1 barrels have been discontinued as I can't find them on their site.

I'd go with this when it's back in stock. > https://palmettostatearmory.com/harrington-richardson-retro-m16a1-stripped-barrel-assembly.html

These don't have M4 feed ramps and you have to keep an eye out for canted front sight bases being a PSA product. It was the same for the Brownells retro barrels.

Del-Ton also makes a 20" LW barrelled upper. It's1/9 though.
Been a fun shooter (bottom in below pic).



HERE

That does look like a fun setup and it looks cool. I would've never thought to put a TA33 on a 20" rifle.

I apologize if this has been asked already but for those of you who had a UID tag made for your Colt M16A4 (USMC) clone, what is the correct Part#?

The base rifle (if it matters?) is a Colt AR-15A4 and I know the cage code is 13629. Thanks

12973001

Thanks

ok, first time I've ever tried to "clone" something, so bear with me. I ended up drunk grabbing a Colt AR15A4 the other day brand new, and now my brain is literally screaming at me "you should clone the M16a4 and spend more money!!!!"

from what I've gathered up I should be looking at

1. Acog TA31RCO-A4CP or TA31F
2. KAC or P&S M5 RAS with rail covers (pricey, but I'm a whore so I'll take it)
3. Matech BUIS (brownells has the Matech, easy grab HERE )
4. Sling and mag pouch for that "strapped over your buttstock" look

anything I'm missing??? the Acog will have to be last because....ouch on price....but the rest is easily doable in the meantime... only thing is, I'm not sure what the correct sling and pouch are. I've seen some people talk about the specter arms setup, another a vickers sling and seperate pouch.... any links or directions for what to grab?

*sigh, and right after I buy this I look at the Colt LE6920 Socom and start thinking (wow, that's 90% of a block 1 assembly already.... I could just grab a sopmod stock, an M2/M4 and the sling and call it a day... it's only money? right?)

This would be a correct choice for the sling & pouch.

http://www.spectergear.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=SG%2D1073

I actually ended up liking that sling so much I grabbed another for my go-to rifle.

awesome! that's one of the ones I was looking at. wanted to make sure it was the right one.

now to just find a M5 RAS in stock anywhere lol

Not sure if the forum allows me to promote (only here to admire builds) but I’ve got one on the EE (from an fn collector m16) along with an A4CP ACOG and a matech which I’d happily discount as a package

Thoroughbred Armaments had some of the P&S verity along with Brownell’s.

Daniel

So my quasi M16A4 clone really got to my bonus son (who's a Marine and actually shot M16A4's during his time in service) jonesing badly for his own so that gave me an excuse to build another one and this time keep it fairly clone correct...




This one is all Colt and KAC. Started with a Colt AR-15A4 base and added the KAC RAS, VFG and USMC marked rear BUIS. Also felt like he needed the appropriate USMC bayonet especially with OKC going belly up. I'm leaving the optic up to him but it will likely end up being an ACOG

both are out. checked first lol.

Aero lower
Palmetto premium 20”

KISS hang over your ranch house door A2

This should be good for my lower
M16a4

Nice

just to confirm. this is the proper cage and part # setup for the UID sticker for an M16A4 and M4a1 rifle correct??? (serial number will be my own, that's just a throw in one)

going to put one on a colt M16a4 clone (from an AR15A4) and the other a M4a1 socom block 1 (ish) clone using a Colt LE6920 Socom.

wanted to verify before I hit the order button

12973001 is apparently the correct part # for the M16A4. I would assume the M4 has a different part # but I don't know what it is?

got it...I double checked and the 12973001 is definitely 16a4..... I believe the 12972700 is the M4 series


so to verify with everyone before I order the sticker for the M16a4

Cage 13629
Part 12973001
Serial....duh

Never saw the stickers when I was in (06-10), they look cool though.

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2018 Colt AR15A4 Late GWOT M-16A4 Clone
-KAC Handguards
-Matech BUIS
-A4 RCO Acog
-13629 Marked Charging Handle
-Surplus Buttstock Cleaning Kit
-Spectre Gear Sling
-SSA-E Trigger
-No F Marked FSB
-C Stamped BCG
-13629 Dot Matrix Marked Upper Square Forge Mark
-CLW UID Label
-Geissele Super 42 Rifle Spring

By far my favorite AR, I would take an A4 over my issued M4 any day of the week except for maybe a 10 mile plus ruck.  Taken me years to get all the expensive parts in there.  I would of left the Colt recoil spring and trigger in but the G parts just make it a little smoother and more fun to shoot.  The SSA-E is ridiculously light, I may swap it with a SSA or NM.  

As issued. I really like this configuration.

Have you had any luck finding a new M5 RAS? I'm in the market for one.

no. Wetworx outfitters got in the M4 RAS's the other day, but no M5's.

What are the details on the M-14? Looks nice.

That was a 2019 M1A National Match.  I had big, expensive plans for it before I got laid off in 2019 and joined the Military.  I instead traded it in and built out an AR-10 the way I wanted it.  The NM is a pure competition rifle, doesn't like to be broken down and cleaned because of the bedded stock.  I could of thrown it in a sage chassis, but that's another 1000$ already on top of the 400$ scope mount and 1000$+ scope it deserved.  In the end, the AR-10 is just as accurate and much easier to take care of and upgrade the way I want.  The M1A Loaded variants are the ones to get for normal useage.  I should have gone that route.  But live and learn.

What’s a good source (maybe a BF sale) for an A2 stock for a USMC m16a4 clone?

Are Matech and KAC rear BUIS okay?


Specter gear sling is okay with the M5 rail? Is coyote tan okay?

Colt ambi safety is correct?

If you don't have an ACOG just use a carry handle. You could also put the carry handle on the KAC rail at 6oclock behind the vertical grip if you really want to be clone correct after you put an acog on it..

Lol I’ve seen those pics
I’m almost trying to use this as an excuse to get back into an ACOG

@Scrapple

What buffer is in it? H2?

H6

Lol, I hear ya

The ACOG is nice but the stripped down carry handle set up is more handy. The A4 fully kitted out is pretty heavy. The buttsotck mag pouch adds weight but it adds to the balance of the rifle. Makes it feel much better when handling. Owning two A4s set up the same with the only difference being the ACOG, I like the carry handle better.

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That's why I have a A2 (Colt R6600) and a A4 clone with ACOG/M5 RAS.  Best of both worlds.  Think I'll built another A2 with Govt barrel.

This is the way!!

The A2 handles even better

I've been carrying mine a lot this year

I also prefer the weight, balance and overall handling of the A2 better than the A4. And that's not comparing the A4 in it's full on clone configuration with the KAC rail and buttstock mag pouch. That's just the A4 with the ACOG and A2 handguards.

I don't know what it is about the A2, but it's turning out to be my favorite even though I tend to prefer ARs with A1 profile barrels.

I love the A2, I have three of them currently. It catches a lot of mud for its sights and the longer buttstock and the duckbill grip and maybe it’s because the A2 is what I was first issued but I don’t mind those things. I like my A1, it’s a great rifle but it is almost so light and simple that it feels fragile to me. I never had any exposure to the A1 except for the clone I have. I can see how guys coming from the M14 would feel like the A1 is like a toy. The A4 is easily the most capable with the ability to easily mount optics, lights, lasers, bipods, and VFGs, but it pays for that in terms of weight. The A1, A2, and A3/A4 are like the three little bears. The A2 is in the middle and feels just right to me.

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RAS M5s

Guess the M16 gods had an issue with me selling my Colt a4 upper this week. Immediately after I stumbled across a FN surplus clone correct upper in the EE. Seems as if the clones back on! Pictures to come.

Here’s my work in progress budget clone of the rifle I was issued 21 years ago. I need to eventually swap the Comp M2 for a Comp M, swap for a Surefire 6P and get a PEQ-2. I went through basic with an A2 and remember feeling so cool once I got an A4, it’s still one of my favorite AR configurations.  

Some slow progress on the A4 but here’s what I have cooking.

Saber Defense lower with all colt parts and correct old stock safety
FN F stamped surplus upper (No feed ramps) cage code barrel.
Good ol’ Grip Pod
KAC RAS
USMC KAC Micro

Better pics to come after I land a sling and RCO A4

You have a grey haired dog I guess

I have 3 A2s also. It's just a case of I built one as a boot camp rifle then found parts for an a2 so decided to build another then got an a2 upper for a steal so I decided to build another...while I'm still working on my a4 and a1 project to round of my service rifle collection.



That's gorgeous! @wittytiger

Was it a complete rifle or did you piece it together? I have a Sabre defense lower (polymer) but I haven't seen the lowers on the market for a while. Shame they got shut down.

@fadedson

Thanks boss!

Pieced it together, found the lower and went from there. Interestingly most pieces were sourced from the EE so it’s  also turning into my ARFCOM tribute

Need another A2 stock.

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