Greetings Programs!

This is not a supplemental to LAZYS RDB Rifle Log. That is more an adventure with the current production Keltec RDB's.
and is worth the read if you wanting to see him put the gun through its paces and maybe what ammo may work best in your 1:7 Twist RDB.

Mine is a bit different.
I have a early, Preproduction1:9 twist rifle and have been on the look out for making this rifle shoot tiny groups. This is the rifle some of the very first written and video reviews are on.
Typically anything I shoot in my RDB is also followed up by my Stag Arms 1:9 twist AR15..Just to compare.

Also @shenendoah_rifleman and mcantu asked to see what I could do with 10 round groups in my RDB..

Folks have tried to point to other bullpups being "The Most Accurate Bullpup" on the market..My experience says "it really depends on what ammo your shooting."
Its also my belief that you can get just about any modern bullpup to shoot 1.5moa or less once you get away from the bulk military stuff.

**Some History**
I actually started looking at ammo loaded with 50gr projectiles after seeing this gentleman's extensive ammo testing .. The range is 1.3moa - 3.4moa 5 shot groups
. I don't remember where on KTOG I found it..so I cant put his name here for the credit..(so if your seeing this My Apologies)... Lazys 1/28/2024 Rdb info is starting to look more like this.

The Rifle


Having found a round I can afford to shoot and still find (very important)..
- The unmeasured groups are from a Tavor Sar and Springfield Vhs2 (Hellion) with the same ammunition.


My RDB is capable of slightly over 1moa when averaging (2)5 shot groups (with and without my suppressor attached).
That's not to say I haven't tried other ammunition. Ive shot alot of different brands and bullet weights over the years through the RDB.I also got better at shooting for groups. This is the test where I first figured out which load I should be buying..
I tried Black Hills 223 50gr..Some PMC 62 XTAC LAP and what was then labeled Fiocchi Extrema..later renamed Fiocchi Field
2.28moa 50gr Black Hills 223
2.77moa 62gr PMC Xtac (which..is pretty typical. I have a 9 shot group that's barely bigger than this)..
0.99moa 50gr Fiocchi Extrema
I shot those only with a 3.5x Prism (which makes them 223 sized holes near impossible to see at 100yards)

Without further ado..

Rifle
RDB17 Circa 2014 1:9 Twist BBL
Cobolt Kinetics 5.56 HxWrks Compensator
LuckyIrishman Rhino Handguard
Aluminum lower Pic Rail.Cut match the length of the Rhino handguard (mostly to hide the UGLY Gap between the handguard and the trigger guard..
GunWraps Vinyl Wrap in Kryptek Raid
Sig MSR 1-6
..Bench Block...
Aero Precision Ultralight SPR Scope Mount-1.5"

Here be my with the RDB.

I show both groups and took more time with groupd#2 vs group#1..So the Average is 1.5moa between both groups

These were shot without the suppressor attached.(I.. uh..got it carbon locked onto my 308Mdrx for the same range session )

Ammo cost
While not the cheapest ammo at 0.63cpr (12.60 for 20).. its  slightly more expensive  than the current prices for Winchester White box m193 55gr @ 0.49cpr (9.99 for 20)
And
Pmc Xtac 55gr @0.52cpr (10.49 for 20)
(Circa 2024)
But much more affordable than
69gr Fed Gold medal @1.29cpr or 25.99 a box
Nosler Match 69 gr @1.24cpr or  24.99 a box
(I use these in my 1:7 twist guns)


I think If I pay better attention I might be able to shrink my average group size (between 2 groups) to around 1.2moa just looking at the round that broke the #6 (which would have been a 1.2moa group but for that).
I also wonder if the suppressor would shrink that group to 1moa average..Ill find out next time.

1.2moa is about what my Stag15 did
For those curious what that setup looked like,
Rifle
Stag Arms Ar15 16" 1:9 Twist BBL
Phase 5 Fatman Muzzle brake
Atlas S-one M-lok handgaurd.
BCM Gunfighter Grip .
Timney Competition Trigger.
Spikes Tactical ST-T2 buffer.
Arken 1-8x24 FFP scope
Aero Precision Ultralight SPR Scope Mount-1.5"
Magpul UBR 2.0.
..Bench Block...

Great post!   And those are some excellent groups.

Do you have an estimate on how many rounds are on that barrel?   It seems like my own RDB is tightening up as the barrel is getting broken in.  I think that's a combination of rather rough-cut gas port hole getting eroded out, and a decent some BBL chatter, also getting smoothed out.  I'm not ready to claim it's reliably a 1.5 MOA gun; mine as of yet is not - but closer to a reliably 2.5 MOA gun, with some better groups depending.  I've noticed ammo that used to be almost wild in my RDB, has tightened up by quite a lot, here at about 800 rounds down the barrel.  FWIW, for mass production barrels, I seem to see this (subjective and anecdotally) kind of often.  For a competition National Match barrel, those pretty much you can mount and go 600 yards same-day; but that's not what these even pretend to be.

My accuracy goal is to be able to reliably shoot sub 2 MOA; and really 1.5 MOA is a good general usage spec.  If a mass produced cheap semi-auto gun with a non-free floated barrel can do 1.5 MOA, I'll be very happy with that.  I'm not there yet, but your post is encouraging - as who knows, maybe I'll be able to get mine there.  Right now I'm only running 2.5X glass on mine, which IMHO is an appropriate pairing, but that will make 1.5MOA level shooting a bit more challenging (not the guns fault on that one).

I took mine to a gong range this weekend, and will be posting an update.  Suffice to say I was pinging gongs walking out, and made it to 450 yards, with about a 50% hit rate.  and then ran out of ammo as the RDB wasn't that trip's primary focus (my goal that trip was to hit every piece of steel there, which is about 75 pieces going out to 800 yards - so this was just brought to save on 6.5 ammo and wear at the 250-450 yard easy putt distance).  Anyway, with the RDB and 75gr match ammo; big gongs were one-shot hits.  Little gongs were not.  My 6.5 CM RPR was of course 1-shot hits walking all they way out to 800 yards range limit, but that's hardly a fair comparison.  I'll post more on that separately.

I will say, now that I fixed my BCG locking up issues (see my thread for more details on that fix), this gun is quickly becoming my preferred 5.56 bullpup choice over my AUG.  It's more accurate, lighter, better trigger, comes up into the shoulder faster, and more pleasant.  While many reviewers whine about the brass coming down, I find it's a non-issue and actually quite like it, as a handy way to keep all the brass right there.  Also, unlike AUG, I'll never have my dust cover get whacked by the BCG, knocked into the action, and jamming things up; in an RDB.  Also, since an RDB is so cheap (even with upgrading the handguard), it's a less cringe-inducing beater.  If it gets knocked around or scratched up - don't really care; it's a cheap beater - run it!  (beware the man with a dented and scratched up gun - he probably knows how to use it )

Thanks again for this post.

I estimate..I'm anywhere from 3-5k rounds through mine.

I wonder if I should do this challenge with the Rdb.

Could be funny.


1MADL Conditions v2
MuH OnE MoA aLL DaY LoNg Challenge

BotR + Polenar Tactical


Principle:


One MOA All Day Long (1MADL) is a common Fudd claim about their hunting / varmint rifles. So let’s build a competition around this!


Obviously your $4’000 accuracy machine with custom bull barrel and meticulously developed handloads can do it, but that’s not in the spirit of the Fuddlore, so we’re basing the conditions so that they reflect this.


Even if you don’t have a rifle that you believe is 1MADL, have a go anyway for the fun of it! Also, please send in your entry even if you don’t make 1 MOA, cos part of the point of this is to gather information, and there’ll probably be patches or prizes for cool entries in any case!


E-Mail Us: [email protected]

Hit The Tip Jar: https://buymeacoffee.com/blokeontherange


Rifles:


No restriction on the type of action.
Any sights.
Maximum rifle weight (including scope, empty magazine if used and any other attachments with the exception of a camera or smartphone and its mounting system): 10.50lb /  4.76kg (cf. Benchrest Sporter).
Any centrefire calibre.
Ideally not custom bedded or otherwise “tweaked” but we’ll be flexible.
EDIT TO ADD: We welcome entries for rifles not complying with the above conditions, but they’ll be for interest only and won’t be eligible for prizes this time. We’ll probably open it up next year but we needed a starting point.

Ammunition:


Any ammunition, whether factory or handloads.
We reserve the right to divide the results up between factory ammunition and handloads, depending on the number of entries.

Distance, Targets:


Any distance of at least 50 yds / 45.7m.
The stated distance on a formal range will be accepted as accurate; otherwise please measure to a “close enough for Government work” standard (tape measure, good GPS, laser rangefinder etc.).
Any paper or card target and type of aiming mark can be used. No steel targets, self-sealing polymer targets, wood or similar since these do not enable good visibility of the shot positions.
Electronic targets which permit direct calculation of the size of a 10 shot group are also permitted if they calculate it directly in their own software or provide Cartesian or polar coordinates that permit calculation with a spreadsheet, and these are recorded for every shot.



Shooting position:


Any position, provided that the rifle is fired with the butt in contact with the shoulder (no “lead sled” or other mechanical contrivances).
Practical bipods (e.g. Harris, Parker-Hale, B+T, VersaPod etc.), sandbags, other rests etc. are permitted. None of those silly F-class type wideboy bipod contraptions.
Rear bags or similar are permitted but are deemed lame and Fuddly.

Procedure:


The barrel may be warmed with any number of warm-up shots.
ONE attempt of ONE group of 10 rounds will be fired at ONE aiming mark. No Mulligans; no do-overs; no “those were my warmup shots” or “those were my sighters” BS. One MOA All Day Long means exactly that: as an adult performer, you need to be able to pull it out and do it on demand.
If using paper or card targets, the total group size will be measured with a Smartphone app such as Ballistic-X or similar, identifying all 10 shots (we don’t trust our own work with callipers so we definitely don’t trust yours): remember to include a reference measurement on the target to use the app! Suggestion: use a standard target with known-diameter scoring rings / grid, or a sticker with a known diameter.
If using electronic targets, the necessary data should be filmed, photographed or otherwise recorded.
Position of the group is irrelevant; only the total size matters, i.e. the distance between the centres of the two shots which are the furthest away from each other.
Scores will be reported in MOA to two decimal places (i.e. X.XX MOA). Any scores reported to one decimal place will have 0.05 added (i.e. 0.6 will be rounded up to 0.65), any scores reported to zero decimal places will have 0.50 added, out of sheer bloody-minded cruelty.
Your attempt will be recorded on video. Info regarding the rifle, ammo, range etc. is welcome in the video; ideally the entire process should be filmed in one continuous shot but we’re not going to be dicks about it. Also, your thoughts on your attempt would be welcome if you want. You do not need to show your face.
Further entries are permitted with different rifles to a maximum of 3 submissions total (one attempt per rifle).

How To Enter:


Do what’s written above.
Upload your video to YouTube, Instagram, Google Drive, Dropbox or wherever with it accessible to us (e.g. via a download link).
E-mail us the following information at [email protected] :
Name
Screen name if applicable
Please indicate if you do not wish to be referred to by your real name; if you do not specify, we will assume that your real name can be mentioned
Rifle (including whether it’s been aftermarket bedded or similar; if it’s particularly cheap, please state the recommended retail price cos Fudds like cheap rifles)
Rifle weight
Details on the ammo (specifying whether it’s factory or handloads; if no indication, we will assume handloads)
Distance
Result in MOA
Link to your video
A screenshot from the group measurement app with your result, or the electronic target data and calculation
Anything else you think we might find interesting about your entry. Tell us a little story!
Your e-mail must reach us by the closing date, i.e. 31.08.2024 (08.31.2024 for Americans).
That’s it.
There is no entry fee, but there will be a tip jar which will go into the prize pot. The more the tip jar is hit, the bigger and better the prize pot will be!

Prizes:


BotR and Polenar Tactical will decide on prizes, if any. This depends on how hard the tip jar is hit! Tip Jar: https://buymeacoffee.com/blokeontherange


Miscellaneous:


By entering, you consent to:


Being contacted by BotR and/or Polenar Tactical;
Your video and screenshot being used by us, and to this end you grant us a non-exclusive licence to use these in the production of our own content.
Your screen name and/or real name being mentioned in our own content in accordance with your wishes as expressed in your email.

We will not:


Sell your data.
Disclose your data to third-parties aside from as provided for above.

About the prize pot:


BotR and/or Polenar Tactical will front up cash for patches and prizes if we decide to do them. We reserve the right to offset some of this from the tip jar at our sole discretion.

10 shots into a 1 MOA group is asking a lot.  I run 20" HBAR competition service rifles, and while at times I do get a 1 MOA 10 shot group, that's actually quite rare.  When I do, I usually win that stage and win against some seriously stiff competition.  I don't win often.  I like my RDB, but I don't think I'd enter that challenge with an RDB!  I might enter it with a competition AR Tactical gun (which is basically what this description is), though I might need to weight it first to make sure it's light enough.  Eh - maybe, I'm crazy enough - I once shot a NRA MidRange 300/500/600 yard match in-competition with an AUG (it did not go well).  

If that were based on 5 shots, that's more doable, but 10 shots, 1 MOA - all day?  First and only string?  That's tough. I've done it, but I'm strutting pretty tall the rare time I do!  No way could I do it with an RDB.

I dont think I can do 10 shots with the Rdb at 1moa, def close tho..
It would be worth trying just to have them scratching their heads as that would be an unusual rifle to partake in such a challenge.

My Mdrx in 308 is too heavy..and My other choices I haven't shot enough to be comfortable guessing how close I could get to even meeting that challenge..

Give it a go!  That's saying a lot.  I know RDB gets panned as being poor accuracy - with SOME truth, but I think that's weighed heavily by the fact that RDB barrels very definately require breakin.  First 30 shots can be so bad as to keyhole.  I've seen some reviewers complain about this, and then fail to replicate it after that first mag or so is gone.    After 500-1000, they actually get pretty good.  If yours has 2000 rounds, I'd say it's still at peak accuracy for an RDB barrel.  And at a guess (I'm basing this on a very small data set), an RDB barrel is going to be peak somewhere after 800 rounds and before about 5000 rounds; though maybe longer - not sure.

I'll submit a 10round group for the Mdrx noting it doesn't meet the weight..

Then the Rdb...

What should my 3rd Entry be?

My Ar? Or another bullpup?

Use your best gun as a control, for the 3rd entry - so use an AR.

I just put about 50 rounds through my new 1/7 RDB.

I was only shooting from 25 yards, not for accuracy but to sight in an Aimpoint and check gas system adjustment.

Was not really impressed with the groups that I got, but I had forgotten about barrel break in.

My gun functioned great (at the default gas setting) with Wolf Poly, Mil Classic, Wolf Gold, PPU, and PMC Bronze.
Mostly 55gr but I did shoot 10 rounds of the AAC 77gr OTM.

No issues at all other than my YHM muzzle device coming loose because I didn’t have two thin wrenches when I installed it.

My best groups at 25 yards with the Aimpoint PRO were 3”.

I guess I need to run a couple hundred rounds through it before I take it to the rifle range.

I don't think break in is going to solve 12moa groups...

Nope..Something def not what it should be..
Buuut...Maybe it not a thing next range trip.

None of those (haven't shot the 77gr Aac yet) group particularly well in my Rdb.

Well, looks like I need more practice shooting 10 shot groups..
I made 2 small mistakes. And grew my going on 0.89moa (8) shot group to 2.1moa
Usually my RDB and Stag15 are pretty close in group size..

Same great Fiocchi 50gr thats been doing great in this rifle..
I did pick up some 77gr AAC ...but forgot to shoot it..

Cool!   That's not bad - not bad at all

I like Desert Texh's approach, or 4 or 5 5-shot strings and then overlay tonsee if POI is moving as gun heats up.  Which I suspect RDB does.

I can certainly do that next trip..Keeping it together for 10 shots..Is..not as easy as it sounds.
No rear bag (Maybe I should invest in one) ..Only something to rest the handguard on..Shot in 1 go, with no do overs..

Ill still use that same 50gr ammo..Need to order more lol

Enjoyed your video.   Is your WLVRN in 223?


I’d like to see you do all the bullpups you own, sans a suppressor.