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Posted: 5/20/2024 12:28:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: SnoGoRider]
An Injunction at the Last Minute to Stop ATF's Rule on Private Gun Sales












May 19, 2024 | Press Release
Attor­ney Gen­er­al Ken Pax­ton Secures Tem­po­rary Restrain­ing Order Against Biden Admin­is­tra­tion, Stop­ping Unlaw­ful ATF Rule from Tak­ing Effect


Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton has secured a temporary restraining order from a federal judge that prevents an unlawful rule promulgated by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (“ATF”) from taking effect while the case is litigated.

On May 1, Attorney General Paxton led a coalition suing the ATF to prevent a new regulatory restriction that unlawfully attempted to abridge Americans’ constitutional right to privately buy and sell firearms. The Final Rule was arbitrary and capricious and flagrantly violated the Second Amendment. Despite Congress having recognized the legality of private firearms sales by non-dealers, the Biden Administration issued a new regulation that would subject hundreds of thousands of law-abiding gun owners to presumptions of criminal guilt for engaging in constitutionally protected activities.

A federal district court has halted the implementation of the ATF rule until June 2, 2024, so that hearings may be held.

“I am relieved that we were able to secure a restraining order that will prevent this illegal rule from taking effect,” said Attorney General Paxton. “The Biden Administration cannot unilaterally overturn Americans’ constitutional rights and nullify the Second Amendment.”

The restraining order explained that Texas and the co-plaintiffs, “understandably fear that these presumptions will trigger civil or criminal penalties for conduct deemed lawful just yesterday. Nevertheless, ATF avers that its ‘knowledge of existing case law’ and ‘subject-matter expertise’ will prevent misuse or abuse of the presumption.… in other words, ‘just trust us.’ … For the forgoing reasons, Plaintiffs are substantially likely to succeed on the merits.”

https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/news/releases/attorney-general-ken-paxton-secures-temporary-restraining-order-against-biden-administration
Link Posted: 5/20/2024 1:55:49 AM EDT
[#1]
Good.
Link Posted: 5/20/2024 1:57:28 AM EDT
[#2]
Without all the legal jumbo jumbo, what does it mean?
Link Posted: 5/20/2024 2:04:40 AM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ApacheScout:
Without all the legal jumbo jumbo, what does it mean?
View Quote


Business as is until the next ruling providing you are in the groups as a member that are suing the ATFE.
Link Posted: 5/20/2024 2:10:17 AM EDT
[#4]
So only applies to Texans, GOA, GOF, VCDL, & TFA members ?
No nra as they must have their head up their ass.

I understand the parties of the challenge get the injunction applied to, but seems kind of stupid to exclude the rest of the citizenry.
Link Posted: 5/20/2024 2:11:16 AM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AR18:


Business as is until the next ruling providing you are in the groups as a member that are suing the ATFE.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AR18:
Originally Posted By ApacheScout:
Without all the legal jumbo jumbo, what does it mean?


Business as is until the next ruling providing you are in the groups as a member that are suing the ATFE.
Thank you. Sometimes people throw legal terms around when discussing these things and I don't know what the hell is going on.
Link Posted: 5/20/2024 2:13:11 AM EDT
[#6]
Plaintiffs understandably fear that these presumptions will trigger civil or criminal
penalties for conduct deemed lawful just yesterday. Nevertheless, ATF avers that its “knowledge
of existing case law” and “subject-matter expertise” will prevent misuse or abuse of the
presumptions. 89 Fed. Reg. at 28975. In other words, “just trust us.” But “[p]resumptions,
especially in administrative proceedings that may generate institution-destroying liability, cannot
be a matter of Department ipse dixit.” Career Colleges & Sch. of Tex. v. U.S. Dep’t of Educ.,
98 F.4th 220, 251 (5th Cir. 2024).
For the foregoing reasons, Plaintiffs are substantially likely to succeed on the merits of
their APA claims. As such, further analysis of their other claims — including their constitutional
ones — is unnecessary at this time.

That, is excellent!
Link Posted: 5/20/2024 2:16:11 AM EDT
[#7]
Link Posted: 5/20/2024 2:22:21 AM EDT
[#8]
Fuck the gAyTF!
Link Posted: 5/20/2024 2:27:56 AM EDT
[#9]
“knowledge
of existing case law” and “subject-matter expertise” will prevent misuse or abuse of the
presumptions. 89 Fed. Reg. at 28975. In other words, “just trust us.” But “[p]resumptions,
especially in administrative proceedings that may generate institution-destroying liability, cannot
be a matter of Department ipse dixit.”

That was nearly verbatim the argument the DOJ made before the SC in the Trump declas hearing. Just trust us, we are good guys.
Link Posted: 5/20/2024 2:29:22 AM EDT
[#10]
I fully expect that the ATF drew this up primarily because the current administration told them to. And I fully doubt that they did it under any shadow of duress...

But they had to know that this suit would be coming close on its heels and that there would be a small chance that they would succeed in keeping this new rule in place. So I have to wonder what their expected (or even best case) end goal was?

I somewhat expect that the ATF was asking for the moon and hoping that SCOTUS would leave them with a ruling that would take it all back but end up defining what they might be able to get away with on the next round.
Link Posted: 5/20/2024 2:42:55 AM EDT
[#11]
Well its a start but we need a permanent one.
Link Posted: 5/20/2024 2:47:28 AM EDT
[#12]
keep an eye on it
Link Posted: 5/20/2024 4:27:33 AM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ronin76:
I fully expect that the ATF drew this up primarily because the current administration told them to. And I fully doubt that they did it under any shadow of duress...

But they had to know that this suit would be coming close on its heels and that there would be a small chance that they would succeed in keeping this new rule in place. So I have to wonder what their expected (or even best case) end goal was?

I somewhat expect that the ATF was asking for the moon and hoping that SCOTUS would leave them with a ruling that would take it all back but end up defining what they might be able to get away with on the next round.
View Quote


I think the ATFs “end goal” here was following orders from the boss.  It’s an election year and Biden is trying to pad his resume.  Doesn’t matter if something like this gets an injunction against enforcement now, or completely struck down a year from now.

Biden gets a “see, I fight the gun lovers” soundbite and that’s where the logic stops.
Link Posted: 5/20/2024 5:03:50 AM EDT
[#14]
They (ATF) keep trying to expand their authority and the courts keep knocking them down.
Link Posted: 5/20/2024 6:24:12 AM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TrainSafe:
They (ATF) keep trying to expand their authority and the courts keep knocking them down.
View Quote
They know they have to keep chipping away at the 2A until it's gone. UN Agenda 2030 is fast approaching and the global interests who are actually pulling the strings need Americans to be disarmed in preparation for what the agenda has planned for we the people. The ATF has gone rogue, as have all of the other three letter agencies, and now operates as an arm of the DNC.
Link Posted: 5/20/2024 6:43:32 AM EDT
[#16]
Our taxpayer dollars funding an agency attempting to subvert our rights
Link Posted: 5/20/2024 7:08:39 AM EDT
[#17]
Link Posted: 5/20/2024 7:13:15 AM EDT
[#18]
it is for less than a month. The ATF under Biden will appeal this. Hopefully that means it will go up the court system and eventually lose, applying to everyone else, forever.
Link Posted: 5/20/2024 7:14:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: FoxValleyTacDriver] [#19]
If you aren't a part of GOA you should be. Membership can be had for as little as $10.

These dudes fight.

Link Posted: 5/20/2024 7:22:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: _DR] [#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FoxValleyTacDriver:
If you aren't a part of GOA you should be. Membership can be had for as little as $10.

These dudes fight.

View Quote


Yep. I have been sending my $$ there since I quit NRA years ago.




Link Posted: 5/20/2024 7:25:12 AM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By _DR:
Yep. I have been sending my $$ there since I quit NRA.m years ago.
View Quote



It's really great to be able to send our monies to effective organizations that are actually making progress against government abuses. GOA, FPC, even NAGR occasionally.
Link Posted: 5/20/2024 7:32:17 AM EDT
[#22]
I gave the GOA a large donation earlier this year - glad I did.
Link Posted: 5/20/2024 7:39:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: chronium76] [#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By wvfarrier:
Our taxpayer dollars funding an agency attempting to subvert our rights
View Quote



Lol You just describe the entire government.

FTF
Link Posted: 5/20/2024 8:13:03 AM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ApacheScout:
Without all the legal jumbo jumbo, what does it mean?
View Quote

If the FBATF wants a new law, they have to talk to their congress critters just like everyone else

They don't get to just pull shit outta their asses, throw it on the kitchen table and call it a turkey
Link Posted: 5/20/2024 8:19:11 AM EDT
[#25]
If universal background checks are being pushed. One should be able to buy a gun in any of the 50 states not just the one you reside in.

It is a universal background check right.
Link Posted: 5/20/2024 8:36:36 AM EDT
[#26]
From VCDL;



MAJOR BREAKING NEWS!

A Temporary Restraining Order has been granted to VCDL and GOA in our lawsuit against BATFE’s new “engaged in the business” rule!!!  That rule is going into effect on Monday!

A Texas Court has granted a temporary restraining order to prevent the BATFE from enforcing its “engaged in the business” rule against Virginia Citizens Defense League members, Gun Owners of America members, and Tennessee Firearms Association members, as well as residents of the state of Texas, and a Mr. Jeffery Tormey.

We were told that VCDL, GOA, and TFA were the only gun groups to file suit.  There are two other suits that involve some states, gun stores, and individuals.

If you live in Virginia and you are NOT a member of VCDL or GOA, you are NOT covered by this temporary restraining order, unfortunately.

Here is the order:

https://cdn.ymaws.com/vcdl.org/resource/resmgr/pdf/
Link Posted: 5/20/2024 8:43:24 AM EDT
[#27]
Fuck the ATF.

I'll give them this much, they're relentless.

Right now though, we're always on the defensive. The pro-2a community is reactive - the ATF comes up with a new scheme - we go to court to stop it. I would think at some point we have to go after the ATF with the same zeal they have in coming after us. I think the only way to beat them down is to just go after them non-stop, one lawsuit after another. Every month. Twelve months a year. Just never stop going after them.
Link Posted: 5/20/2024 9:22:45 AM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pale_pony:

If the FBATF wants a new law, they have to talk to their congress critters just like everyone else

They don't get to just pull shit outta their asses, throw it on the kitchen table and call it a turkey
View Quote


Yes. Also,

If the Legislative or Executive branches want a new law, they have to go through the legislative process, not just direct a bureau to change and enforce the rules. There are also things outside of their power to legislate.
Link Posted: 5/20/2024 9:27:56 AM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CarlosC:
Fuck the ATF.

I'll give them this much, they're relentless.

View Quote


Of course they are, why wouldn't they be?

They use our money to do this stuff and are completely unaccountable for anything that does get stricken down or rolled back by the courts.

We also use our money to fight them, and usually have to endure their bullshit for years before it gets squashed. There is no downside for them.
Link Posted: 5/20/2024 10:12:19 AM EDT
[#30]
Good on the restraining order. But, it either applies to everyone or none. The government just wants to do the "divide and conquer" crap. There should be no special people.
Link Posted: 5/20/2024 10:20:34 AM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FoxValleyTacDriver:
If you aren't a part of GOA you should be. Membership can be had for as little as $10.

These dudes fight.

View Quote

This needs posted more often, and in more places.
Link Posted: 5/20/2024 2:00:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: spmx7777] [#32]
There was a new law passed, the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act, which changed the definition of being in the business of dealing firearms. ATF wrote these implementing regulations. This court case is whether the  implementing regulations go beyond the new law and constitution or not. Texas AG thinks they do, a judge agreed they will likely win, so the implementing regs were put on hold. I think that’s what’s going on.
Link Posted: 5/20/2024 6:57:30 PM EDT
[#33]
Good and FATF for their unconstitutional overreach.
Link Posted: 5/20/2024 7:56:58 PM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CarlosC:
Fuck the ATF.

I'll give them this much, they're relentless.
View Quote
They are one of several malignant arms of the DNC. The democrat-communists have gone about as far as they can go while still dealing with an armed population. They know in order to make the leaps and bounds into communism, they need a population that has no means to resist the horrible things The Party wants to inflict on we the people. The ATF isn't going to stop until they are stopped or they achieve their goal of criminalizing private gun ownership. Make no mistake, that is their goal.
Link Posted: 5/20/2024 7:59:14 PM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By wesr228:
Good and FATF for their unconstitutional overreach.
View Quote

Link Posted: 5/20/2024 10:22:29 PM EDT
[#36]
ABOLISH, GUT, and DE-FUND the ATF...
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