I'm debating getting this seemingly new suppressor, was curious if it fits you Gate-Lok mounts along with the standard A2 stuff. And just out of curiosity, have I been under a rock or something or is this system brand new?

That's brand new.  That product is intended to be a mil/le/export product as of right now (these things sometimes change but it is based on military product requests).  They are not ready to ship- we have a single example and we're manufacturing a run.  The major reason for it to exist doesn't impact consumers- organizations don't allow people to change muzzle devices.  We designed it to not need to lose the crush washer or issued device so it has a .365" exit aperture.  It performs well, surprisingly, due to a totally custom baffle system designed to make it perform, and a longer 7" OAL.  Even flash is low- it's kind of a cool unit.  

The A2S-QD can would only fit A2 compensator length gate lok mounts.  So it would fit the hammer comp and the closed tine flash suppressor.  No other SD-QD mounts would fit.

Our next market available SDQD line can should be the M4SD-L.  <Lighter, tubeless, and high performance, and that should probably beat the A2S-QD to market, or they might arrive around the same time.

Cool. I appreciate the info.

Is this design better suited for the metric cut A2 FH’s out there?

Anything inside the actual NATO A2 print tolerance will fit this can.  The only issue with that statement is that some of the muzzle devices are like paintball market devices where nobody had a print or gave a rats ass what the tolerances were- I have one here from some random company sold on Midway USA that is .865" OD< that's .001" over the print tolerance range- NOGO.

Aero Precision is manufacturing a Nato A2 sold on Midway USA.  Their part is a decent part that from the two I saw is manufactured .0005" over low limit .860 OD- like they run the machine lights out over night and want it making parts in tolerance as the cutter wears and the diameter grows.  The mount for this can, like our GP-N will tolerate the entire .110-.13" width of groove dimensions, and the entire range of OD dimensions.

Maybe this is asking a bit much, but will you be adding the ability to not need special shims to your other M4 series of cans?

I don't think adding that feature set would do much for them.  If people often need to replace the muzzle device to get compatibility at all, using shims isn't really a big deal at that point.  

The crush washer compatibility is more for organizational structures where people are not allowed to remove a muzzle device.  That's what the A2S-QD is good for.

The A2S-QD is quiet, and it does that with a phenomally large bore diameter.  It is low backpressure also.  But it is also 7" OAL and weighs 19 ounces.  I'm not sure most people would want the extra length.  

There are a couple parts of the technology that will work their way into M4SD series cans over time- that's all I immediately can say about technology enhancements. Those parts are minor enhancements that additively increase the level of competition of the line to a place where there are relatively few competitors that can compete.  Nobody comes to mind, but then I know that at least two respected companies have vaporware products that nobody knows anything about, and probably won't for a long time, so there is a difference between "probably no competition", and no competition.

Your teasers are killing me. Just bought another M4SD (a K this time) to take advantage of the current promo, but I've still got room for newer variants.

The M4SDK is an excellent silencer.

Don’t worry they are not coming soon. Industry sales are slightly down with the recession, and we have to clear out inventory to implement some of the slight upgrades.  

It would be cool if the product shelf life wasn’t a year or more, we could move development faster.  

I know some people believe that products should be in a frozen life cycle state, but I believe the boundaries of what is possible should be pressed as often as there are possibilities so long as there is no NSN or something, rendering that impossible.

Worst case, we do R&D and find we can’t improve a product at this time.  Best case we find ways to improve product prior to running production on more product.

So personally, so long as I or anyone on the team has potentially valid ideas, we try ideas prior to batch production, or if we are slow enough we will do R&D for no production oriented purpose at all.  It is hard not to have ideas when we have 34 or something models potentially getting occasional R&D and at times the R&D work creating ideas for crossover improvements in other products.

This path has taken the products closer to the boundaries of what is possible over time.

For example I’ve been doing AHAAH analysis for 6 months.  I am still learning how to interpret the results, and trying to validate the tool.  At some point with extensive experience we may have the knowledge to use that tool in a more valuable way for product development.

We already use it at times in decision making, but our use is based on hypothesis and we are using it when metrology is not showing significant difference, or when our ears are disagreeing with metrology. It is one of several methods of testing for these unclear cases.

Last summer for example we did 3.5 months R&D on a single suppressor model that is quite high performance and not even released currently (it is getting toward the end of field trials). It was daily testing, daily production to support further testing and all weekends involved testing.  Sometimes the idea comes on the drive home, and sometimes it comes months afterward and is cataloged for later testing. It is impossible not to learn something doing all the work.

Appreciate the perspective, really interesting info. Especially about AHAAH - I occasionally do acoustics work in a different industry and I know firsthand how painful validating a new tool can be. I hate it.

All that aside, I'll continue waiting patiently for the M4SD-L and whatever else you've got in the works, they'll show up when they show up. I will say though that I'd like to see the A2S-QD released on the commercial market at some point. Sounds like it could be a really handy can to share with other trustees who haven't/don't want to set their guns up for suppressed use.

I will keep your comments in mind.  It's tough to know what the best course of action is for some of the products that are designed in an obvious direction that didn't directly involve a consumer market thought process.

@knightzone @stillnothere

This suppressor was not selected to the equipment field trial we were trying to get it into.  It was essentially information on a slide at that point, so this is no particular fault of the equipment.

The military program said all the unselected gear was worthy stuff, they just don’t have time to test it all.  

That forces us to bring it to market in order to pursue other methods for military consideration which require items to be market available.

I’m beginning to understand why products selected 27 years ago are still being purchased.  These gear selection processes are not highly functional.

The people talk about doing their best for the warfighters but the only way to qualify that statement is to tirelessly pursue technology like the warfighters tirelessly fight our nations wars.

Obviously if items are looked at, a feedback loop can begin and items can be improved as needed to better fit the un-stated needs (another complex issue), and that demonstrates that tireless selection people will increase the readiness of the organizations and raise the state of equipment technology.

This item was designed around an organizational flaw in that the muzzle device is not allowed to be removed at the unit level.  That is evidence of another layer of problem keeping service members from safety equipment. These items not only can protect hearing, they also provide concealment and operational security by limiting enemy awareness of troop locations.

Im sorry I wanted to hit quote and reply and I hit edit by accident a button that is an industry forum option that exists nowhere else on the site and I deleted your message.

The m4sd basic was a neat can.  Its cool you have one.  

We have made some sales to leo and agencies in the US, like DOE, Postal Inspectors, federal police in different countries, and we have some products in field testing with the US military and with Nato partners, and fielded by allied countries.

Our interest in mil sales is kind of part diversification and part desire to help troops get the tools they want/need.

I was in the Infantry and our suppressor development has always been related to military applicable products. So its kind of been a lot of work in that direction without connection.

I have a significant amount of hearing loss from an m16-a2 training incident where I was ordered by a major not to wear hearing protection along with all the other infantrymen that day.  I also have some more from two combat deployments. That first incident took 60db in one of my ears, the deployments added 30+ more damage to both.  Most of that is from our own small arms fire.

This gear isn’t like a pickle that the hamburger doesn’t need. The guys either have cans, or they don’t have the advantages or safety the cans provide.

As far as I know there are no us mil selection programs for carbine cans open currently.  Imo that is evidence that this might as well still be 1909 with the Army saying no to the maxim suppressor for the 1903 springfield.

It'll be slow but I'm sure they will get there eventually. I would imagine if big military ever did go hard in on cans, they'd utilize a direct thread option over QD.

The military doesn't like modifying firearms below depot level maintenance, and has historically only bought QD cans.  The reason for that is probably as simple as the can needs to come off for maintenance or patches could become stuck in the bore, but is further complicated in terms of blank firing adapters, bore sight collimators, and METTC.

So I see that both the M4SD-L and the A2S-QD are listed on your site, does that mean they're available for ordering?

Spotted a couple interesting things:



@Green0 is this a new version of the Hammer Comp, and does it ship with the M4SD-L? Really liking the integrated overtravel stops on your newest muzzle devices.



And will factory FDE M4SD-Ls be available?



^ Asking the real question. Still a little sad the L lost the dimples and no longer looks like a pickle, but I'm ready to order an FDE one yesterday.

They are getting welded and painted in batches now.  So far, just black.  I’ll mention fde to them and see what they can do.   The release is like one week at this point or something like that.

The new hammer comp is sort of like that, that one has a photoshopped front face, the parts are at pvd.  The rear geometry is the same as the new flash comp.

The cans may still ship with old hammer comps, but there is a new hammer comp, and new flash comp in transition, that model is not as great at protecting baffles, but it is very low flash and extremely low concussion.

That external surfacing adds about 1.5 ounce to 16 ounces, so the L would be less light with that. It would also look bad if a baffle was even a few degrees from perfectly aligned with another.

Thanks. Was planning on ordering one as soon as they drop but if there's a possibility you'll offer FDE I may hold off a bit - would much rather have FDE + the new hammer comp if at all possible. That'd also give me time to figure out how the General Issue program works when it comes to ordering suppressors/firearms.

@Pomyluy

The operations manager said we should be able to make a partition of the inventory in FDE.

I bought my AAC Omni (heavy) back in 2003/2004(?, I forget exactly when) given that I could use it on a standard A2 flash hider.   At the time, I was running ranges training USAR/NG headed to Iraq, and I could also use it on my PD SWAT issued LMT Guardian 10.5”

I picked up a Griffin 30SDK in the Covid/Trump loss panic, and Absolutely Love this can, and the Gatelock!  It’s been my go-to can for whenever I leave the house with a rifle.

I like the Gatelock so much, I’m trying to convince ECCO Machine to hack up my old Omni so I can convert it to a hub/Gatelock can.

I have already decided on the Griffin M4SD-L as my next can; looking forward to weight saving (I do a lot of “AR hiking”) and the EcoFlow; my old Omni is both heavy at a pound and a half plus, super gassy.

Little off subject, but here’s my 30SDK I sprayed using air cure Cerokote in Magpul FDE.   I was spraying other items, and had the idea to hit the can to use up the last bit in the sprayer.  I only wiped it down with acetone prior. So far, it’s held up great.

Attached File

Alright!



So you didn't sandblast it or anything first? Would a cheapo Harbor Freight airgun work? May give this a shot on some of my other suppressors then, even if I have to invest in a couple tools it's probably worth it over paying a shop $100 each.

Thats pretty cool it held up.  The low temp is much more durable at moderate temperatures.  

You will probably really enjoy the m4sdL as it is a really high performance can in 5.56.

@Pomyluy

You'll definitely get a better finish using an HB sprayer; Ive been using the cheap aerosol sprayer that sits on a glass jar you get at Home Depot.

@GreenO
 
Pretty much a 'sustained fire' type shooting/training wise.  If it burns off/turns and becomes ugly, I'll like it even more.  I'm also looking forward to your Gen 5 flash comps when they hit; I'm kinda geeky on flash hiders and these are some of my favs.
Attached File

The A2SQD will only accept A2 length muzzle devices so the M4SD-K/II/L would work with your legacy mounts.

Two of those are pretty rare mounts. We only ever made about 100 of the closed tine flash suppressor and three port closed tine compensators.  

The crush washer must be working for you, but those can contribute to miss alignment or poi shift.

For the A2SQD the bore goes to .365 up front to better accommodate that.

So I ordered your Gate-lok hub mount to use on one of my other cans aand to try out the system, seems like solidly constructed mount, however it seems that most of my A2's are all of oddball sizing. If I order your Hammer comp's, will they be the newer style with the integrated overtravel stop?

@Stillnothere  I think dropping customer service an e-mail might be helpful with that question.  I'm sorry I don't have an immediate answer.  I think we might have both styles, and then talking to them is the way to order them I think.

Shit, I think I have 3 or 4 of the closed tine flash suppressors in my fleet. I love those things.

We have newer closed tine flash suppressors, but the 5 slot ones I thought were pretty cool.  The 3 slot comp had a little flash due to being a comp with one slot opening prior to the others.

For some reason they just look right on a GWOT clone.

@11b4v do you mean one of these Preval sprayers?

Preval Spray System

I burned off the spraypaint on my M4SD-II again, I guess it's finally time to invest in a bottle of C-series Cerakote.

@Pomyluy

Yes, Preval is the one.  

You can also get small quantities of Cerokote from TacticalPenguin.com

TacticalPenquin

@1168RGR

Good looking rifle!  Kinda makes me wish I'd kept my RIS II.

Thanks

Looking around, looks like the A2S-QD is no longer available. Not seeing it anywhere on the site.