I have been planning on building a long range specific rifle for quite a while. On our company properties I have easy access and good shooting lanes for 1,000, 1,200, 1500 and 1,936 yards. I can go longer if one neighbor doesn’t mind the noise occasionally.

Two of my current builds were specifically to cover 600-1,200 yds and they do that very well. I have learned a lot form some good members here and I really think this build will be one I attempt.

I dropped some data into a ballistic calculator for some of the bullets I know and or shot. Here are some standardized numbers, all based on 2,860 fps @ 1,800yds with a custom wind that is common at this site:

.338 300gr smk 1,203.94”/37.14” (338 Norma I have shot and is exceptional)
.308 230 Berger 1,228.76”/58.43” (A bullet I have wanted to shoot for many years)
.284 195gr Berger 1,212.42”/57.01” (heard good stuff)
.264 147gr eldm 1,299.6”/64.33”

I realize there are advantages on both sides of the spectrum with shooting appropriate guns for these bullets. There are newer bullets that can be driven faster than this baseline and I am open to all of them as choices.

Here is the goal:

Build a rock solid platform with very efficient bullets at a speed that makes shooting 1 mile fun. I may never hit a target but I want to have fun going through the process including the build, loading, tuning and shooting.

Questions:

Which one action will give me the best base for prefit barrels, potentially of different calibers?
What cartridge to start with?
Which barrel company for custom prefit barrels?
TT Diamond?
What chassis?

The scope will be appropriate for the task. I’m super happy with my 7-35 Atacr so may just get another.

This build will happen with no time or cost budget. I’m not rich, but I am getting older and have wanted to do this for 25 years so I’ll make it work.

Thanks for any input!
.

No idea now days on action, I run a Defiance Tenacity in an MPA chassis(they have new stuff including a 3 pound lite chassis if it interest you...But MPA's stuff is excellent for shooting and they have tons of trick shit for them..As for the Tenacity, great action but price sucks now since they sold out...It does take profit barrels, simple to change barrels plus your smith can build you a barrel without having the action, but you have to change bolts if needed for different cartridges....Bolts were 250 bucks before have no idea now...
A word on the 230 berger in 308.... If you use any of the big magnums expect at least 3050fps for velocity..That is pretty common in 300rum for that bullet with stock 26" barrel guns..I pull more and many others do as well with the rum, which wouldn't be a bad choice for cartridge, you can do 7mm/300/338/375 all with 1 singe case and it uses the standard 534" magnum bolt face that works we'll on a .700" bolt diameter common on most actions...... Also their are a dozen or so brass makers for 300rum brass so a simple neck up/down for any of the calibers..And easy accessibility ......As far as order of speed on the 30 cals, figure 30-378 Weatherby is tops, then 300rum is just a fuzz slower than a bit back is 300norma mag, then further back is 300 weatherby, then 300 wm/300 prs basically the same, then 30-06 and finally 308....The only real difference between them cost wise for loading is a bit more powder for the big cases, but you can load them slower as well, the rum came factory with loads for 300rum/300wm/30-06 as far as factory ammo, easy to duplicate those loads if wanted...I imagine that can be done with any of them up to a point, the lower cartridges just won't have the speed of the big cases....Just so you know.. my 300rum with a 28" bartlein barrel fired the 230 berger at 3220fps,  I am currently working on a load for the 245 berger with its much bigger BC but I don't have answers for it yet...Figure the rum with the 230 good to 2000 yards pretty easily, and figure 1760 yards to be a pretty easy hit if your load is good...when you go from 300 to 338 in rum, it becomes the 338 edge because Remington changed the length on the 338rum,  so keep that in mind , the edge is a necked up 7mm/300/375 case instead of the shorter 338 case.....Most guys will say go PRS, its ok but matches 300wm for performance, a little short for the big heavies, but berger makes a pile of trick heavies for the 30 cal and would be my choice regardless of case....300 Norma might be a good choice but uses the big bolt face which some question on a .700" bolt diameter...

This guy is a good watch for any of the cartridges used in ELR use if you want an unbiased comparison of them, he gives an honest report on each , the good, the bad the ugly and lets you decide what is what...

https://www.youtube.com/@markandsamafterwork/videos

I plan to go with 300PRC.

Thanks for the input. I appreciate the real world speeds I can use for my calculations. I just finish a session with my 6Arc and another guy I know was there with his. He also shoots the 7prc and did his workup this am for the 195 Berger. I’m starting to get my head around how to make the choice.

I have been digesting Markandsam’s videos for a while. I like his no BS approach.

This gun will be a fairly narrow purposed gun. After accumulating real world ballistics I’ll just have to move ahead.

The journey is a large part of the experience for me.

I was leaning this way as well.

Then I decided to think about what bullet I want to shoot and then work backwards into the cartridge. As long as there are good components available I think I can be happy with just about any accurate rifle/cartridge combo.

That is a very good way to approach it I think... What I have seen Berger seems to be more consistent than Hornaday as far as bullets,  30 cal has had a huge jump lately in BC especially Berger, they make at least a dozen high BC 30 cal bullets now that are 200 grain or higher... with the 245 being in the .433 G7 BC... problem is to get the most out of those heaviest bullets may well take 300rum or 30-378 Weatherby for best ELR performance..I've been so happy with the 230 I haven't pushed the 245's even though I've had bullets sitting on the shelf for 2 plus years now..figure it is time to at least see what they will do...Regardless, it sounds like you have a good idea already what you want...

Interesting enough, after mulling this over for a couple days/months into the early hours before posting this, I made my post and wallah: https://precisionrifleblog.com/2024/03/30/pre-fit-barrels-everything-your-gunsmith-wishes-you-knew/#respond

Email arrives this morning.

I’m sure no robots are listening…

I’m getting there, slowly.

If I go with a Sherman I can get more speed out of a PRC sized offering.

With that said the 195 .284 and the 220 .308 Berger’s are almost identical ballistics out to 2,000 at PRC speeds. If this is true I’d likely lean towards the 220 just for the splash.

I would pass on the wild cat cartages, I have done it a few times and got tired of having to make brass and reloading it if I wanted to shoot it.

As for the way you are going about it, I did the same thing when I built me 300 Win Mag. I looked at the 208gr and 215gr Bergers and also took the fact that I was also going to use the rifle for hunting besides ELR shooting, so I went for the 3.600" over the 3.700" (COAL) chamber since I was going to shoot factory 190gr and 200gr hunting ammo with it as well. It will also chamber and shoot the MK248 MOD 0 (190gr) and MOD 1 (220gr) mill ammo as well.

I think 300 PRC will do everything you are looking for, but AKSnowRider is right with his point about 300 RUM. With a chamber that will let you run a COAL of 3.700" instead of 3.600", you could possibly match 300 Norma at a lower cost. Also, Bordan Accuracy has a paper comparing the 338 RUM to 338 Lapua that is worth reading.

I’ve been doing a bit of it shooting out to 1,500 yds. I have done very well with my Gap 6.5c out to 1,200 including first round hits.

I have been shooting for a very long time and have experience with shooting up to 300nm. Just haven’t stretched it out past 1,500. My buddy won’t sell me his 300nm so that’s why I am going down this path. I’m certain I can make hits at 1,500 with the Creedmoor in the right conditions. But my goal for this gun will be to use it from 1,500 and out with efficient hand loaded bullets.

Thanks!

Thanks!

The one thing I will tell anyone thinking 338rum, the right choice is 338Edge, which is a 300 rum case necked up to 338..The 338 rum case is quite a bit shorter(2.760") than any of the others(7rum/300rum/375rum= 2.850") in the rum family...338edge out  velocities the 338LM all things being equal....So brass for any of the others can be necked for 338edge.....I've considered going 338edge/rum, but with the high BC 30 cal bullets available now, not worth it for me...Very happy with my 300rum...

I am not certain I need the horse power of the Rum. From what I am seeing I can get very decent ballistics out of the 220berger at 2,900-3,000. This seams like a sweet spot for an intermediate long range round. Not burning barrels but still making it to mile with just over 18 mil at 2,900.

Are there factors I should be thinking about that I may be missing?

Barrel wear is going to be some issue with anything that has a heavy with velocity behind it...With that said I average over the last 4 barrels about 1600 rds sub moa...the  2 barrels I've shot past that both went to 2500 rds before exceeding 1.5 moa..So yes they wear..question is what's livable...I am fine with 1600 rd barrels for the performance available....I will post what I saw with a 28" Bartlein with the 230 berger HT..Using RL-33/RP 9.5M primer/ and RP brass, muzzle velocity was 3220fps and 5300 pds energy..This is hand feeding and running just shy of 4.00" cartridge length.....My sons factory 26" 700 in 300rum did the same load at 3150 fps @ 3..715" the feeds from stock blind box mag......A friends does 3050 with the same setup...I ran mine all the way up to 3348fps, but that showed pressure on the bolt at anything over 55 degree temps.. current load is good to 80 plus temps, and was the top of an accuracy window with SD:5 and ES:11 on 10 shot strings...I have no data for the 245 Bergers although when weather gets better I will do some roadwork on them...RL-33 has had best velocity of all the powders I've tried over the years with heavier bullets....I changed the ballistics table to show both MIL and MOA over the MOA and inches that I had on computer, numbers are all the same otherwise...

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I had no idea the Rum could run that many rounds at those speeds. It really makes you think. Thats very impressive and definitely changes the equation. I’ve been running numbers on the 220’s, I think your numbers better 220 in a prc by 6 mil at 2,000. Even if ran slower, given acceptable accuracy, the 230’s are looking really good.

Thanks for the input. It does help. Even if the waters get muddy between now and my decision it all adds up.

It is a hard choice, I looked hard at all of them when I went to the defiance action, thought about leaving the 700 alone as it was and building a new cartridge, but after looking around at common numbers guys were getting, between all the 30 cal stuff, I just felt the rum had the others beat..It is pretty simple to load down if you want less cartridge with it, just gotta pick the right powder to fill the case for the velocity you want..Main thing for me was avalability of brass from so many makers, from best of the best ADG/norma to just works but super cheap hornaday  or any of a number of others, somebody has brass in stock for it 90% of the time somewhere...Basically brass/bullets/primers are all the same for all the 30 cals, powder is the difference, the rum is going to burn somewhere around a 100 grains versus 70 or so for the lesser 30's...so its a few bucks more...People like the PRC because its short, but it still has to have a long action..To load rum max long, you have to single feed over a removable mag or you can do a Wyatt's blind mag and feed from the box as long as 4.1"... I wanted a chassis so I know I was going removable mag, Accurate mags makes a 300rum mag in 3 lengths, stock to 3.850" CIP which allows 3.715" or so COAL.... So giving up case on the PRC seems weird to me...I load a 200 barnes LRX for up close mag fed hunting and single feed over the same mag when shooting the heavies...Works fine for me...

I will post this swinging 8" plate, my first time shooting this past 100 yards when I first went to the chassis and 230 berger...This was 4 shots at 100 yards to check zero followed by 3 shots at 858yards off cold bore and punching the velocity into my kilo2400 RF with AB ballistics...$ shots left of center are @100, 3 shots on the right are at @858...And I am a decent shooter but no sniper...

Attached File

Solid!

The Defiance action keeps showing up across builds as I do my research. Seems everyone is happy with them.

They are nice actions...The only issue I have with them is the new owners raised their prices..Not sure they still offer the tenacity, I think it morphed into a Renegade now days...If one could live with the classic it is only 990 bucks..I paid 900 for the tenacity action..
  Only difference I see is the tenacity had an integrated recoil lug where the classic has a pinned lug...And to change bolt faces you have to buy a new bolt instead of swapping just the bolt head, nice option but I doubt I would change from the magnum bolt  anyway...
  If you buy an action(Defiance anyway) if your action is a basic standard action that most buy, it is better to check with their vendors than order from them..Their vendors get regular orders in so they may have just what you want in stock or on the way already, saving a bunch of wait time ordering direct.. Thats what I did after the salesman suggested it, vendor(brownells) had it in stock...

They are nice but look at American Rifle Companys CDG action for 950$.

Edit:

I would also look at the Zermatt Origin for 1000$. They have grate prefit barrel support and can accept Savage small shank barrels and allot of shops stock them as well.

As I research caliber options for given bullets I keep coming back to one caliber that seams to sit right in the sweet spot, 300nm. While requiring the larger bolt face it doesn’t seem to be working to hard to achieve decent numbers. Loaded with the 215 or 220 Berger’s it can easily make 2,950. Yet, if I ever decide to go longer it can handle the 245’s easily.

Brass life, when not pushing for max speed, is actually very good. Components are available. It is also a bonus that the powders that run well in it are the same powders I have on hand for the 6.5 prc.

I realized I would be locking myself into the Lapua bolt face but that’s not a big deal since this will be a very narrowly purposed gun.

Hmmmm