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Posted: 5/13/2024 10:04:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: tstetz]
Here's my M4A1 clone. EDIT: Actually just an M4 clone as I just learned. Always thought the flat top upper came in with the A1 upgrade but apparently that was an XM4 to M4 change.
Nothing fancy but it fills a niche in the collection. It is SBR'd, even though that seems ridiculous for the negligible difference in length with a pin and weld. The lower is pretty straightforward PSA M4A1 marked, with a basic PSA lower parts kit, a fat F3-marked A2 grip, a Mil Spec carbine buffer tube from Luth AR, and a surplus M4 waffle stock with rack number. There’s no cage code on the stock so I suspect it’s actually police surplus, not military surplus. Maybe off of a Bushmaster? I’m calling it close enough, though. The upper came from my parts box, and has a Luth AR ejection port door assembly, and a round forward assist from my parts box. The carry handle is a GI surplus one that I picked up in a trade a while back. The bolt carrier group is a chrome lined, phosphate Microbest Mil-Spec carrier that I got from AR15Discounts. The 14.5 inch, 1:7 twist M4 profile barrel and A2 flash hider are from Luth AR and again the A2 front sight is from MA Parts. The carry handle had the complete rear sight assembly already. The handguards are double heat shield M4 ones from my parts box that came from some trade or another. I added the sling swivel after I did these pics and had the right rivets.  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 10:45:30 PM EDT
[#1]
I like it! Looks good. 👍
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Posted: 5/14/2024 7:54:47 AM EDT
[#2]
I don't recall seeing "rack numbers" on military weapons.
However, I'm not in a weapons company. Just seen a lot at various reserve centers over the years, and what I saw in one overseas tour. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 8:48:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: WUPHF]
[#3]
Snip
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Posted: 5/14/2024 8:51:28 AM EDT
[#4]
Doesn't look very A2ish.
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Posted: 5/14/2024 8:55:19 AM EDT
[#5]
Sometimes a basic no frills M4 is all it takes.
Looks great. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 11:15:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: tstetz]
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NotIssued: I don't recall seeing "rack numbers" on military weapons. However, I'm not in a weapons company. Just seen a lot at various reserve centers over the years, and what I saw in one overseas tour. I think I'm dating myself with my love of rack numbers. It doesn't seem to be as much of a thing anymore. It was a thing for a long time. I have M1 carbines with rack numbers and you'll see them on older stuff a lot. I have surplus A2 stocks on my A2 and A4 clones with rack numbers but I'm guessing that largely went away with the addition of the bar codes and maybe with M4's in general too? There are a number of archived threads here with rack number pics and descriptions although thinking about it, they probably are all older stuff. Mostly M16A1s, some A2s.  Attached File(I know, my top rail on my A4 is seated in this pic!) |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 11:21:09 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TGWLDR: Doesn't look very A2ish. Hmm, you're not wrong. I guess I lump A2/M4/A4 etc in the same military family. But you are correct, that's not what this forum is. I was thinking this was the more proper sub than Retro but it still isn't correct. Apologies! |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 11:28:18 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tstetz: Hmm, you're not wrong. I guess I lump A2/M4/A4 etc in the same military family. But you are correct, that's not what this forum is. I was thinking this was the more proper sub than Retro but it still isn't correct. Apologies! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tstetz: Originally Posted By TGWLDR: Doesn't look very A2ish. Hmm, you're not wrong. I guess I lump A2/M4/A4 etc in the same military family. But you are correct, that's not what this forum is. I was thinking this was the more proper sub than Retro but it still isn't correct. Apologies! Just being cheeky. 
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DEU
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Posted: 5/15/2024 8:09:13 AM EDT
[#9]
I still remember seeing a M4 with a tanker back in the late 1990s, and I was hooked.
Regarding looks, I still love the early M4 / M4A1 with its thicker hand guards and N 1 stock. After almost 30 years it is now a classic and iconic carbine. You did a good job and I really like it. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2024 3:26:57 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gunslinger-Mike: I still remember seeing a M4 with a tanker back in the late 1990s, and I was hooked. Regarding looks, I still love the early M4 / M4A1 with its thicker hand guards and N 1 stock. After almost 30 years it is now a classic and iconic carbine. You did a good job and I really like it. The original M4 without accessories are classic and pretty. 
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Posted: 5/15/2024 4:51:56 PM EDT
[#11]
They do look good with the CAR stocks.
Now that my dumb ass realizes the difference between the XM4 and M4 I may add an XM4 to the list with the fixed A2 upper and CAR stock! |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 4:59:06 PM EDT
[#12]
It still meets definition of an a1 clone. Early a1 was exactly the same as an m4 except for auto vs burst
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USA
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Posted: 5/15/2024 6:02:45 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NotIssued: I don't recall seeing "rack numbers" on military weapons. However, I'm not in a weapons company. Just seen a lot at various reserve centers over the years, and what I saw in one overseas tour. Spent two+ years in the Army National Guard and 22+ years on active duty and I doubt I ever saw a weapon without a rack number. |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 6:21:08 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ChemTrailZ: It still meets definition of an M4A1 clone. Early A1 was exactly the same as an M4 except for auto vs burst |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 6:28:42 PM EDT
[#15]
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:37:07 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ChemTrailZ: It still meets definition of an a1 clone. Early a1 was exactly the same as an m4 except for auto vs burst Lol, see now that's what I thought too (although I also though the flat top didn't come about until the M4A1) but I got grief on the Reddit Mil Clone group that it basically couldn't be an A1 without rails and optics! I thought the early A1's were like this too but I capitulated and just went with M4 after catching crap, lol. |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:37:54 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HenryKnoxFineBooks: Clones of XM4, early M4, and early M4A1: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/180398/Early_M4s_JPG-3215248.JPG Nice! Those look good. |
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DEU
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Posted: 5/16/2024 4:56:26 AM EDT
[#18]
Nice picture. I was amused to see the carry handle installed too far back.
The first M4 I saw back in the late 1990s had the removable carry handle and was dark grey. I cannot remember if it was BURST or AUTO. It hat a W prefix serial # and "COLT'S MFG. CO.INC." markings. |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 4:33:11 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gunslinger-Mike: Nice picture. I was amused to see the carry handle installed too far back. The first M4 I saw back in the late 1990s had the removable carry handle and was dark grey. I cannot remember if it was BURST or AUTO. It hat a W prefix serial # and "COLT'S MFG. CO.INC." markings. Gotta move the carry handle back in order for it to fit in the rack:  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 5:45:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: KitBuilder]
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tstetz: Lol, see now that's what I thought too (although I also though the flat top didn't come about until the M4A1) but I got grief on the Reddit Mil Clone group that it basically couldn't be an A1 without rails and optics! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tstetz: Originally Posted By ChemTrailZ: It still meets definition of an a1 clone. Early a1 was exactly the same as an m4 except for auto vs burst M4A1 MWS (Modular Weapon System) is what you officially get when adding a RIS (or later, a RAS, starting late 1997 or early 98) to the standard M4A1 (which was issued with the plain oval M4 handguards initially). The TMs reflect this as well. The M4A1 was fielded to SOCOM units prior to the original RIS being fielded to all of them. I think Delta got the RIS first because there's a picture of them with either a prototype or early production RIS. It took a while for the SOPMOD package to be introduced (after the M4A1 was fielded to many units). |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 7:10:57 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HenryKnoxFineBooks: Gotta move the carry handle back in order for it to fit in the rack: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/180398/armory1_jpg-3215871.JPG Interesting, that I didn't know. I was always curious when I've came across them like that. 👍 |
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DEU
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Posted: 5/17/2024 5:40:39 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HenryKnoxFineBooks: Gotta move the carry handle back in order for it to fit in the rack: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/180398/armory1_jpg-3215871.JPG Thank you for that. Now I understand. |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 5/17/2024 6:57:01 PM EDT
[#23]
Originally Posted By tstetz: I added the sling swivel after I did these pics and had the right rivets. I just finished up one similar. I used same lower but added the little pony to it. 80% of it was just spare parts I had in the parts box. The swivel is where I am not sure. A lot of the pictures I looked at does not have the lower sling swivel but a side sling swivel only instead. I have been debating which way to go. I have a lower swivel here now I can just throw on and be done or spend another $40 for a side sling swivel.  
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Posted: 5/18/2024 10:58:12 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HenryKnoxFineBooks: Gotta move the carry handle back in order for it to fit in the rack: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/180398/armory1_jpg-3215871.JPG Huh, never knew that either! Great tidbit to have. Thanks for the enlightenment! |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 11:00:36 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KitBuilder: You thought right. M4A1 MWS (Modular Weapon System) is what you officially get when adding a RIS (or later, a RAS, starting late 1997 or early 98) to the standard M4A1 (which was issued with the plain oval M4 handguards initially). The TMs reflect this as well. The M4A1 was fielded to SOCOM units prior to the original RIS being fielded to all of them. I think Delta got the RIS first because there's a picture of them with either a prototype or early production RIS. It took a while for the SOPMOD package to be introduced (after the M4A1 was fielded to many units). Hah! I backed down when all these younger guys jumped on saying they never saw them issued that way. I figured they must be right since the M4 era was mostly after I got out. Well, plus I saw in the Air Force Reserve a good chunk of my time in and we didn't have anything current, lol! |
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ITA
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Posted: 5/18/2024 3:55:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Frens]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tstetz: There’s no cage code on the stock so I suspect it’s actually police surplus, not military surplus. Maybe off of a Bushmaster? I’m calling it close enough, though. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tstetz: There’s no cage code on the stock so I suspect it’s actually police surplus, not military surplus. Maybe off of a Bushmaster? I’m calling it close enough, though. My early 2000 OEM Colt waffle stock is completely unmaked. Nothing unusual. Originally Posted By NotIssued: I don't recall seeing "rack numbers" on military weapons. However, I'm not in a weapons company. Just seen a lot at various reserve centers over the years, and what I saw in one overseas tour. Rack numbers made with stencils are long gone… a sharpie is all it’s needed nowadays. This stock comes from the 173rd ABN 
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Posted: 5/21/2024 2:31:18 PM EDT
[#27]
OP, consider Colt handguards, staking the endplate, putting on the rear sling swivel, and adding an RRA front swivel (easier to find).
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Posted: 5/22/2024 10:38:04 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Andrewsky: OP, consider Colt handguards, staking the endplate, putting on the rear sling swivel, and adding an RRA front swivel (easier to find). Noted. I did put a front sling swivel on not long after taking these pics, so that’s done. Are Colt handguards that much different? Honest I’m not sure what these ones are. Double heat shield, fat M4, but I’m not sure whose. |
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Posted: 5/22/2024 10:49:22 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Andrewsky: OP, consider Colt handguards, staking the endplate, putting on the rear sling swivel, and adding an RRA front swivel (easier to find). Hadn’t even thought about that rear swivel until you mentioned it. I just did a quick Google for parts an am not seeing anything coming up. I’ll look more later or see if I have another I can steal the parts from. |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 5/23/2024 12:03:12 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tstetz: Hadn’t even thought about that rear swivel until you mentioned it. I just did a quick Google for parts an am not seeing anything coming up. I’ll look more later or see if I have another I can steal the parts from. Try JSE Surplus. |
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Posted: 5/23/2024 7:10:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Combat_Diver]
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gunslinger-Mike: Nice picture. I was amused to see the carry handle installed too far back. The first M4 I saw back in the late 1990s had the removable carry handle and was dark grey. I cannot remember if it was BURST or AUTO. It hat a W prefix serial # and "COLT'S MFG. CO.INC." markings. Carrying handles were set one notch back for the locking bar of the arms rooms racks at the time. "W" prefix was only for M4s starting at W000001. Earlyist SN I've come across in the wild was W000489 belonging to the 82nd which I inspected in 18/19' in Astan. W300000 block were reserved for the M4A1s. When we got ours in spring of 95' in 5th SFGA they ranged in W302xxx-W303xxx. These pictures of me and my M4A1 in Jordan Aug 95'  Attached File Attached FileFew months later in Haiti and then we're just starting to get Block I items (TA01NSN ACOG).  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 9:51:59 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Combat_Diver: Carrying handles were set one notch back for the locking bar of the arms rooms racks at the time. "W" prefix was only for M4s starting at W000001. Earlyist SN I've come across in the wild was W000489 belonging to the 82nd which I inspected in 18/19' in Astan. W300000 block were reserved for the M4A1s. When we got ours in spring of 95' in 5th SFGA they ranged in W302xxx-W303xxx. These pictures of me and my M4A1 in Jordan Aug 95' https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/32677/Jordan_95_shooing_M4A1_Carbine_jpg-3221351.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/32677/Page_00_M4A1_jpg-3221352.JPG Few months later in Haiti and then we're just starting to get Block I items (TA01NSN ACOG). https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/32677/Haiti_95_M4s_jpg-3221353.JPG Great pics, I enjoy seeing them each time. |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 10:36:02 PM EDT
[#33]
Updated pic. Front swivel was put on not long after the first post. I did swipe a rear swivel off of another stock.
 Attached File Attached File |
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