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Posted: 5/1/2024 3:01:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: buck19delta]
I’m not talking about a 1990s invasion of iraq cakewalk with a couple thousand casualties, I’m talking about fighting a REAL WAR, such as vs Russia / China, or a combination of same with their ally’s, with real / heavy casualties similar to what’s happening in Ukraine. 50 k dead in a year type death.
Any real fight, and by real fight, I mean fighting Russia, China, or any combination WILL include / ABSOLUTELY require a massive draft, and that alone would likely break the USA alone. You think your dragging the weed smoking 19-28 year olds out of moms basement to fight China? Or the tens of millions of obese land whales, drug addicts, the millions of self obsessed, self absorbed narcissistic living their best life Americans who won’t even commit to working overtime ? A very large % of citizens would happily choose prison over serving / going to fight for the USA. Canadas population would become 50% Americans overnight, feminism would vanish as would any talk of equal rights. Who’s left for the grinder? Illegals / foreigners here illegally? Think promising them citizenship would get them to go fight China / die in the hundreds of thousands like Ukraine? Why? They already have all the benefits of the USA, they don’t need citizenship, and I don’t see them serving either. Not sure how they would produce enough soldiers, but it would definitely break America in the attempt. |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 3:01:51 PM EDT
[#1]
Nope, nor could we produce enough tanks, airplanes or ships , or missiles
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Posted: 5/1/2024 3:07:32 PM EDT
[#2]
I am surprised you even come out from under your blanket most days.
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Posted: 5/1/2024 3:08:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: buck19delta]
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cobra-Commander: I am surprised you even come out from under your blanket most days. I’m actually very happy.  Your not answering the question, Who’s going to fight? Would you? Your brother? Sister? Son ? Daughter? Best friend? |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 3:09:03 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dsteelman: Nope, nor could we produce enough tanks, airplanes or ships , or missiles |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 3:10:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Miles_Urbanus]
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -Obsessed-: Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -Obsessed-: Originally Posted By dsteelman: Nope, nor could we produce enough tanks, airplanes or ships , or missiles I see I’m early to the defeatism party! No one has our stockpile either so it isn’t simply negligence. We have thousands of M1s and M1A1s in storage for example. The US is the leader aerospace manufacturer in the world. I am quite confident we could produce more aircraft than anyone. |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 3:11:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MidMichHunter]
[#6]
Nope, plus the skills and combat ready status of our equipment in the services now is lacking. Of course most all units DEI training is up to standards, but 50-60% of their equipment isn't.
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GA, USA
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Posted: 5/1/2024 3:12:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: st0newall]
[#7]
REAL WAR with major world powers (at least with nuke inventories) doesnt require 'enough troops'. and it will be over in maybe 60 to 120 minutes.
i mean.. were we warned about starting a land war in asia? (i'll include roosha in that question) |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/1/2024 3:13:20 PM EDT
[#8]
Not a chance. The country doesn’t have the stomach or resolve to deal with 50k dead solider annually. I wouldn’t let my daughters go fight a war in todays world.
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Posted: 5/1/2024 3:14:43 PM EDT
[#9]
No. Not anymore.
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Posted: 5/1/2024 3:14:45 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -Obsessed-: Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -Obsessed-: Originally Posted By dsteelman: Nope, nor could we produce enough tanks, airplanes or ships , or missiles It’s going to get interesting, the real question is, if China went after tiawan, would we be willing to nuke China? Because thats probably our only real option in regards to stopping them. We could fight pretty well short term, but within a month we have probably lost our carrier groups, hundreds of fighter planes, 50,000 dead U.S. servicemen, hundreds of thousands wounded, billions in lost war materials, thousands of missiles fired, ships sank, satellites destroyed. Then what? We hauling a million us citizens off into emergency boot camp ala WWII / Pearl Harbor and cranking up war production? |
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USA
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Posted: 5/1/2024 3:15:04 PM EDT
[#11]
REAL troops? Probably not.
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Posted: 5/1/2024 3:15:14 PM EDT
[#12]
Um, how about fuck wars and the assholes that get us into them. Don't send your kids to fight for these immoral pieces of shit.
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Posted: 5/1/2024 3:15:52 PM EDT
[#13]
No.
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USA
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Posted: 5/1/2024 3:15:53 PM EDT
[#14]
Sure. We have 3x the population now than we did in WWII. High tech weapons mean we don’t have to put as many troops down range. The US is still the strongest military in the world. For now. I hope it stays that way.
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/1/2024 3:17:17 PM EDT
[#15]
Absolutely not.
The younger Generation is absolutely fucking retarded. Thats why drones are in. |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 3:17:38 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CanaryCamaro: Not a chance. The country doesn’t have the stomach or resolve to deal with 50k dead solider annually. I wouldn’t let my daughters go fight a war in todays world. Patriotism is definitely at an all time low, combined with massive distrust of the current government, and total self absorbed and narcissistic citizenry, not to mention the terrible physical condition/ obesity we have and a draft wouldn’t go well at all. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/1/2024 3:17:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: WildBoar]
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dsteelman: Nope, nor could we produce enough tanks, airplanes or ships , or missiles Produce? Probably. Qualified non DEI people to use them? Nope |
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USA
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Posted: 5/1/2024 3:20:41 PM EDT
[#18]
Got a bunch of illegals that can earn a citizenship. Recruiting them is probably already happening.
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Posted: 5/1/2024 3:23:10 PM EDT
[#19]
Im going to disagree with the majority and say yes we can. Full scale mobilization of Guard, Reserve, and IRR is a lot of folks. We can spin up the training facilities in a matter of months as well. A better question is can we produce enough troop and equip them quickly enough to make a difference. The answer to that question may very well be no though.
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SGP
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Posted: 5/1/2024 3:47:07 PM EDT
[#20]
It depends on the scope of the war. If we hit the point where universal conscription is necessary, we're going to have problems. To be honest, I'm also concerned about China buying up our food supply. Foreign ownership of any of our natural resources is a terrible idea, but when it comes to most of it, we could eventually get it back to being productively harvested, even if it is sabotaged. If they were to destroy our crops and meats though, even if we could eventually use the land to produce more, that doesn't solve the immediate problem of a substantial amount of food being suddenly destroyed.
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Posted: 5/1/2024 3:47:18 PM EDT
[#21]
Yes, no problem at all. Not even sure why you would raise it as an issue. There are 22 million men in the US between the ages of 15 and 24, and 23 million between ages 25 and 34. I think close to 50 million men would make a decent-sized army.
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IN, USA
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Posted: 5/1/2024 3:48:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Evintos]
[#22]
I can envision the scale being something similar to the draft for the war in Vietnam (2.2 mil drafted out of 27 mil pool) and the equivalent percentage of drug usage (51% marijuana, 30% psychedelics or opioids). So yes, the 19-28y/o pot smokers are going. If I remember the statistics correctly though, it was only around 25% of the draftees that were in combat zones.
If we compare manpower numbers with the current Russia/Ukraine conflict and even assume increase in scale, probably only looking at about 5 mil drafted for a hypothetical conflict with Russia/China, which I think is achievable. Now whether or not it's enough to win, that would depend on victory conditions. |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 3:52:12 PM EDT
[#23]
The govt would just draft what they need, they have no issue using a sjambok to get a lazy kid into shape for the warfields.
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TN, USA
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Posted: 5/1/2024 3:54:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: banzai70]
[#24]
What I have to ask is whether there would be enough national will to fight a costly, protracted war.
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Posted: 5/1/2024 3:56:02 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dsteelman: Nope, nor could we produce enough tanks, airplanes or ships , or missiles Could we get equipment from China....to fight China? |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/1/2024 3:57:17 PM EDT
[#26]
Of course.
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CO, USA
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Posted: 5/1/2024 3:59:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: CypressCity]
[#27]
depends on if it hits US soil or not.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/1/2024 4:04:08 PM EDT
[#28]
If the war lasts long enough that industrial power becomes a factor (big IF) then think about the training piece.
Training a 1940s farm boy used to fixing tractors to fix a tank or even a piston engined airplane is significantly easier than teaching a 2020s kid who's never turned a wrench to keep an Abrams running or an F35 flying. Then factor in how much harder it is to train a pilot now. Takes a lot more hours to learn to fly a modern jet vs a P51. |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 4:05:28 PM EDT
[#29]
A "real war" on the scale of WWII has not happened since the introduction of nuclear weapons, and is unlikely to ever happen again. We've gone 80 years without one, and it's not because the major powers of the world like each other.
Proxy wars are the way of the world now. |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 4:05:53 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dsteelman: Nope, nor could we produce enough tanks, airplanes or ships , or missiles This Rewatched Hacksaw Ridge last night We wouldn’t have the men or equipment |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 5/1/2024 4:15:17 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CypressCity: depends on if it hits US soil or not. This is the real answer. The question is "war where?" Outside the US, no. 9/11 or worse attack on US soil with a clearly defined enemy, yes, there will be a line of people waiting to fight. However if that situation ever occurs, it'd have to be engineered since the US would pretty much have to stand down all the nice assets we have to deal with stuff before it hits US territory, and not use them after something reached us, either. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/1/2024 4:16:34 PM EDT
[#32]
It's called "Selective Service". Colloquially, it's called "The Draft".
I still have my selective service card. |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 4:20:28 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By st0newall: REAL WAR with major world powers (at least with nuke inventories) doesnt require 'enough troops'. and it will be over in maybe 60 to 120 minutes. i mean.. were we warned about starting a land war in asia? (i'll include roosha in that question) This. The next war won't be fought in traditional ways. Drones, automated tanks and missles will be the way not boots on the ground. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/1/2024 4:22:50 PM EDT
[#34]
China. 500k to be called up. Estimated 50k KIA in the first year
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LA, USA
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Posted: 5/1/2024 4:24:16 PM EDT
[#35]
Not in today’s woke army
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Posted: 5/1/2024 4:27:30 PM EDT
[#36]
Yes but they will be dark skinned, 5’2” and speak Spanish.
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USA
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Posted: 5/1/2024 4:28:41 PM EDT
[#37]
It would be interesting to see the response from families as the government tries to conscript their kids
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Posted: 5/1/2024 4:29:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: CarmelBytheSea]
[#38]
Assuming this is a thread about China.
See my fiscal 2025 defense budget for the Army screenshot in my China matches USA military spending thread for the official answer |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 4:30:00 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By twistedcomrade: Um, how about fuck wars and the assholes that get us into them. Don't send your kids to fight for these immoral pieces of shit. Send the bankers, politicians and every MIC lobbyist and board member first, AND all their family. I served, my 2 oldest served, they have been out a few years and hammered the 2 youngest to NOT even think about joining. Fuck war and all the warpigs. |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 4:30:49 PM EDT
[#40]
Originally Posted By buck19delta: I’m not talking about a 1990s invasion of iraq cakewalk with a couple thousand casualties, I’m talking about fighting a REAL WAR, such as vs Russia / China, or a combination of same with their ally’s, with real / heavy casualties similar to what’s happening in Ukraine. 50 k dead in a year type death. Any real fight, and by real fight, I mean fighting Russia, China, or any combination WILL include / ABSOLUTELY require a massive draft, and that alone would likely break the USA alone. You think your dragging the weed smoking 19-28 year olds out of moms basement to fight China? Or the tens of millions of obese land whales, drug addicts, the millions of self obsessed, self absorbed narcissistic living their best life Americans who won’t even commit to working overtime ? A very large % of citizens would happily choose prison over serving / going to fight for the USA. Canadas population would become 50% Americans overnight, feminism would vanish as would any talk of equal rights. Who’s left for the grinder? Illegals / foreigners here illegally? Think promising them citizenship would get them to go fight China / die in the hundreds of thousands like Ukraine? Why? They already have all the benefits of the USA, they don’t need citizenship, and I don’t see them serving either. Not sure how they would produce enough soldiers, but it would definitely break America in the attempt. As a Desert Shield/Storm veteran I find your description of it as not a real war insulting. Which war did you fight in? |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 4:32:25 PM EDT
[#41]
How fast can we produce drones? I'm leaning towards mass waves of conventional control and AI drones replacing much of what we used to use to fight.
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Posted: 5/1/2024 4:34:13 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Alex_F: As a Desert Shield/Storm veteran I find your description of it as not a real war insulting. Which war did you fight in?  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 4:34:13 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cobra-Commander: I am surprised you even come out from under your blanket most days. Bingo |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 4:37:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: bansil]
[#44]
Originally Posted By buck19delta: I’m not talking about a 1990s invasion of iraq cakewalk with a couple thousand casualties, I’m talking about fighting a REAL WAR  I appreciate the dick move with that opening sentence  Lots of people would disagree with you, people died, badly wounded and families suffered, at 20 years old, i wasn't expecting to be killing people and seeing hundreds of dead/burnt/crushed bodies....wasn't a cake walk for the volunteers that raised their right hand in a mostly forgotten war. |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 5/1/2024 4:38:25 PM EDT
[#45]
No way my son's are going to fight some politicians war. Not the way this country is going.
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Posted: 5/1/2024 4:38:42 PM EDT
[#46]
Global No....on our soil....yes we would raise arms against the opposition
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Posted: 5/1/2024 4:40:44 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Alex_F: As a Desert Shield/Storm veteran I find your description of it as not a real war insulting. Which war did you fight in? You beat me to the punch 
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Posted: 5/1/2024 4:41:40 PM EDT
[#48]
couple thousand casualties you say?
In Desert Storm, the US had: U.S. combat related deaths: 147 U.S. non-combat related deaths: 145 And Iraq: Iraqi deaths: 100,000+ To answer the question, I don't believe we could. The recruiting crisis has been going on long enough now that it would require a draft to fight in any significant numbers, and the number of medically disqualified draftees is likely staggering. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 5/1/2024 4:42:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ArmyInfantryVet]
[#49]
We don't even have the will to give military hardware to people under a Russian invasion. Why would we have the backbone to stand up to Russia or China?
We won't even do the minimum. Much less when the stakes are way higher and we have real skin in the game. It's pathetic how we went from being the party if Reagan to the party of Putin. |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 4:42:49 PM EDT
[#50]
Unless a near peer or peer nation somehow manages to step foot on conus I’m pretty sure we could muster up enough conscripts or enlistees to cover what is needed. We have the most powerful navy and air force in the world. There maybe some nations that may come close in competence but no where near the scale of the combined fire power of those two branches alone. Are we outnumbered by the PLA, sure but they don’t have combat tested equipment to the level we do nor do they have the combined arms and naval maneuver experience we have. Also to note if someone in Russia or china got froggy with the US it wouldn’t just be them vs us, it would even though probably limited get a lot of people pissed in countries that border or are near the hostile countries. Pacific rim nations would love a reason to bite at the Chinese apple as long as they knew they weren’t alone and the same goes for the Indians, they may not like us all that much but I’m pretty sure they would rather America comes out on top vs the other guy. As far as the Russians,I’m betting Poland, the Czech Republic and a host of former combloc countries have some old scores to settle that they seem to be currently arming up for, Poland alone could reek havoc with the Russians and be happy to do so.
While we may not be able to mobilize quick enough to match the numbers of say the PLA (which we will never do). Do we really need to? And frankly if if we ever came to a full out war with either or both the Russians and the Chinese including their proxies it’s going to go at least limited nuke if not full on exchange thus ending any country politically and militarily and no )ne wants that since if you can’t play army you can’t make money or gather power. Unless something incredibly stupid happens outside of “maybe” small engagements that will be pulled back before they spin out of control we are not going to war with our largest trading partner and one of our largest debt holder (the Chinese) since it would destroy them as well we are not going to go to war with the Russians because they know they would cease to exist as a nation if they tried. |
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