I'm an OIF vet. My battalion lost 9 KIA, and we sent dozens of men home with life changing injuries of varying severity.

OP could have chosen better words, but let's not pretend that our experience is on the same level as those of our ancestors in WWI and WWII. The US lost more men in individual battles like Normandy or Iwo Jima than we did in years of war during GWOT.

There's a level of hell that hasn't been experienced by US soldiers in generations. That's what OP is talking about.

OP could have posted his comment without insulting service members.  It's not a difficult concept.

Attached File

Sure.

Now try rephrasing the question using the vocabulary of a Cav Scout.

Your more than correct I agree on the level of hell....

I wasn't a cav scout, but ok.

"Could the USA produce enough troops to fight an all out war on multiple fronts, like we did in WW2?

See, not so hard and not insulting the generations of troops who've served in peace and wartime since then.

Fight for who?

Biden?

Piglosi?

Fani Willis?

Scouts suck

I think transport vessels would be a larger problem than troops. With our geography we have to go fight them or they have to go fight us.

But, they may be too many words ,it almost was for DAT ass

Don't bring data and logic into our thread, we are trying to complain about the youth.

Why go to war when they can be an influencer?

That's right, be all they can be with tic tok. Only fans hero's, maybe porn hub simp city maneuvers.

Doesn't matter because you'd have to gut social spending to get the resources to make the troops effective (train, equip, and logistics). Dems would rather lose than see that happen.

We gave Ukraine and the muzzies in Afghanistan a good chunk of our supply of hardware

We have enough now, if we are invaded.

Can do easy.

No. But it doesn't matter because we no longer have the will to win wars any longer. So you could give this DOD 1 billion of the finest soldiers to ever be birthed by mortal women and they would still lose the war.

But hey, potato got his 10% though

Did you mean to describe this forum?

We've fought real wars in the past. Finding bodies  isn't the issue. The modem USA isn't willing to sacrifice the number of casualties a major war would produce. We also no longer have the manufacturing base to support building stuff at the rate it would be consumed in a modern war

I don’t think allot of people or equipment is going to be a premium in your scenario.

Gonna be more big bang than pew pew.

U.S. Popuation 1939: 130,879,718
U.S. Armed Forces 1939: 334,473
Percentage of Population in Service: 0.25%


U.S. Population 1945: 139,928,165
U.S. Armed Forces 1945: 12,209,238
Percentage of Population in Service: 8.7%


U.S. Population 2024: 342,000,000
U.S. Armed Forces 2024: 1,284,500
Percentage of Population in Service: 0.37%

LOL...this thread is so GD it's not even funny.

I think they prefer CDAT these days

lol fuck that

ETA: unless they’re on US soil, count me and mine out

Yes, but it would take some time and some liberties would need to be taken with how people could be treated.

Currently, no.

It's the easy times/soft men thing.

The real question is, when comfort goes away and shit gets hard on everyone, can we get our shit together.

The possibility is there, it depends on how we look at the opportunity.

At that point we also need to adapt the Heinlein philosophy on citizenship. It would fix so many core issues with this country.

Nothing new....... citizenship through military service during hostilities has been around since at least WWI

Fun Fact:  The first naturalization act, passed by Congress on March 26, 1790 (1 Stat. 103), provided that any free, white, adult alien, male or female, who had resided within the limits and jurisdiction of the United States for a period of 2 years was eligible for citizenship. Under the act, any individual who desired to become a citizen was to apply to “any common law court of record, in any one of the states wherein he shall have resided for the term of one year at least.” Citizenship was granted to those who proved to the court’s satisfaction that they were of good moral character and who took an oath of allegiance to the Constitution. Under the system established by the act, aliens could be naturalized not only in Federal courts, but also in State and local courts, and the children of successful applicants, if under 21 years of age, automatically became citizens.

If a war with China comes do they not have the ability to reach inside the US of A and damage/destroy said manufacturing especially if it was a sneak attack.  A sneak attack is also the only way I think China would ever wage war with us.

Yes.  Some of you guys are a little dramatic.

We could.  A lot of the social drama BS would evaporate if we needed bodies.  

Now production, I fear, would lag horribly unless OSHA and a few other regulatory bodies suspended their work.... and even then we'd probably have to draft people to work.

Jesus Christ the level of butthurt here is astounding.  We are approaching an assholes collide situation.

We dont have enough healthy young adults for a mass ground invasion with heavy casualties. Wont have the stomach for war without rules of engagement, no DEI, no politeness, no mercy. Worse we dont have the logistics for war production. Factories are closing every year let alone less dedicated people to run them and we get most raw materials from overseas.  The public wont want rationing again nor sending their children to fight another war.

this

if even 1% served -- that's over 3 million people.   approximately 275 infantry divisions (or 730+ BCTs)

yes -- they wouldn't all be in the Army -- that's just an equation

plus -- nowadays women would be included.  if they raised the age to 'non-traditional' levels -- like 35-50 year olds -- the draw could be pretty massive if required

Not to mention stacks of bodies, big cities have lots of people....on our soil it would be red dawn type fights with locals taking up arms.

The USA would resemble a chocolate chip cookie, the chocolate chips would be the big democratic cities....the dough between would be the rural Americans that I truly believe would defend ours.

I would imagine it matters how much time and how much red tape could be slashed

I'll go. All the friends I have will go. We're all 70 or better and mean as hell. I may fall down or stumble but I don't quit.

There are very real considerations that we need to take in as predictions masquerading as future events.

First is the oil carry handle at 150 USD that banks have been talking about openly for several years.   As most of you know,  the backing of the dollar is oil price.  With the growing inflation since COVID, the banking industry is under increasing pressure to derive value from the dollar to prevent a gross collapse of the fiat currency markets (which are generally USD denominated).

We joke about the dollar being the best horse in the glue factory,  and the financial sector is struggling with this as well.  In technical trading, there is what is referred to as a carry handle, which can be thought of as a price which will function as a longterm support level.  Banks are openly talking about the "need" to establish this oil price at 150 USD per barrel.  In a simple economic sense,  how do you achieve a higher price for your commodity over a long term?   It's a complex action.   Simple economics is to constrain the supply, but that will only achieve a relatively short-term impact.   Especially when we consider the impact of American elections on this as a 4-year cycle.   Sanctions at a nation-state level get you the a constrained supply,  but the free market will impact it.  The next action is to reduce the impact of drillers, thereby further constraining supply and further driving up price.  This is an action of government (along with other bureaucracy) that can curtail the asset supply indefinitely.  

Think about the gas stove embargo being discussed by the current administration.  This is a way to reduce supply and then effectively reprice the valuation of assets untapped at a nation-state level.  The "crisis" - whatever it may be, climate disaster or whatever you substitute it for as the baba yagga du jour, will alleviate and bureaucracy will lift embargo when the asset pricing is desired to go down.  Much of the electric vehicle agenda is tied up in this as well, largely under the same bureaucratic umbrella with the same goal.

Banks and bankers prefer the instrument of warfare and hostility as a tool in the tool box because it can create chaos in the system and create the disruptive forces necessary - and in our current circumstances- likely a world war to get the periodic support handle necessary to preserve the ongoing dominate state of the American financial system.

My second point is that the unlimited and assisted immigration we are witnessing is also not by coincidence.   It is a purposeful design,  I suspect,  to help mitigate the impact of the unwilling And resistant nature of American and Western European citizens to draft conditions needed to fight the current wars.  The Russian and Chinese governments have the governmental willingness and fortitude to wage unrestricted warfare if needed and throw millions of people into conscription if needed to keep their grip on power.  The American and Western European nations rules of engagement simply do not mesh with the same tactics.

So, if your enemy is prepared to wage unrestricted warfare,  how do you get conscripts?  You import them.  And just as it is with bank bailouts for zombie companies so to will it be will it be in this case.  The public,  unwilling to suffer loss, will suffer financial inflation and culture shock, as when the conscription is issued it will likely take the form of service for citizenship.  The post world War America and European Union will look vastly different than the prior years, and frankly, because we are a people adept at kicking the can down the road.

No
Just post it

My humble opinion is we haven't been able to do that since Korea, conscription not withstanding.. Really weren't capable then depending on who we are fighting. I was a an 11B, we don't have nearly enough of them. that was 15 years ago, and we were pretty fuckin hard but nothing like our predecessors. We're woefully unprepared.

I'm not sure about that. The US + Japan + Germany manufacture as much as China, and in the top 20 manufacturers in the world 18 are US allies.

And it depends upon how you measure production. By some measurements the US has never manufactured more than it does in 2024. This is of course a moving target, and we should not be surprised if Vietnam, India, and Mexico all nearly double their industrial production in the next 5 years.

If the country needed to, we would put policies and financial rewards in place to manufacture millions of missiles per year, tens of millions of drones per year, and anything else we needed. In 1939 the US produced 25 percent of the number of aircraft Germany produced; by 1945 the US was manufacturing seven times more planes than Germany.

This place does kill me at times with the "Real War" or "WW3" threads.

We are and have been at war with China for decades essentially, they are playing the long game and exploiting our weaknesses.

Who is behind fentanyl and the 10's of thousands of deaths and billions in costs per year?

Who has undercut our industry for decades with CCP subsidized cheap imports?

Who has been the largest thieves of industrial and military technology through espionage?

Who continues to buy off our politicians who fail to legislate against any of it as we continue to bankrupt ourselves with unsustainable debt?

Who can name the 2 CCP tied chinese billionaires dumping hundreds of millions into NGO's funding the trans movement (among others) destroying our culture. Trans...lol, something they don't have in China.

The bickering here over "conventional" war with any major power is laughable, we are in a war now and losing.....badly.

What country is missing from this list?

G7 nations agree to shut down coal fired plants.

What country is building coal plants by the dozens?

I think we have a good of chance or better as anyone else in the world.

It could be done.  It would take time, though.  Drafting 18-25 year olds would yield at least a few hundred thousand somewhat acceptable recruits.  Even if the health of younger people isn't as good as the last generation, there are still a large pool to pull from.  I'd bet a lot of the less desirable draftees would beat feet or get any exemption they could.  Maybe that would be for the best since they would be crappy soldiers anyways.  We'd also get at least some decent volunteers.  There is always the general optimism that during wartime, a lot of the peacetime nonsense gets thrown out.  There isn't a lot of time for DEI workshops and PowerPoints when you've got 100k troops in active combat.  

A war with Russia would be much more taxing on resources since Russia has a long border with NATO and land wars are very taxing in manpower and equipment.  We'd probably need to stand up a few more infantry divisions which would be a huge undertaking.  The national guard units would become active units pretty quick.  Newly created units would probably backfill behind them.  

A war with China would be less taxing, since it will be mostly an air/naval war.  In that kind of war, the major assets you have when the war starts is pretty much what you'll have.  We aren't cranking out ships and aircraft like WWII again.  In any scenario, it would be hugely expensive in terms of spending.  We'd have to shift our economy to a partial or full on war economy.  

Thankfully, it still seems unlikely that China or Russia wants to war with us on purpose.  Russia's military is garbage and chewed up.  China would get screwed over hard by a naval blockade.  They could fight and probably have some victories, but the postwar environment for either of them wouldn't be to their advantage.  

Doubtful.
But, there are enough veterans/hillbillies/rednecks etc to defend the homeland were anyone want to get froggy.

Isnt this what selective service is for ???? 🤔🇺🇸

Easily..........MacNamara’s Morons part deux.  We have a nation of college aged Biden voters.   So they man be fat, disgusting and unsure of what bathroom they’re supposed to use.  

They’re perfect!  A nice draft of both er all the sexes should yield plenty.

I was deployed to Iraq,  

I never said American soldiers didn’t make great sacrifices in the gulf war, Iraq / Afghanistan , didnt die, families didn’t suffer, and in no way did I mean to suggest they didn’t, and 7000 dead is a great loss of life.

Iraq / Afghanistan 7000 in 20 years….  

Vietnam 58,000 in 20 years…

Korea 36,000 in 3 years…

WWII 400,000 in 4-5 years.

Ukraine…. Up to 500,000 in 2 years.

USA vs China / Russia, you don’t think it wont resemble Ukraine? Won’t result in more casualties per day, than Iraq / Afghanistan produced in 20 years?  We ran the gulf war with volunteers and stop loss, think we could fight China on volunteers? It would require a draft, a massive WWII level draft, where there would be no college deferments. Arfcom laughs at Russia / Ukraine men hiding from their drafts, you don’t think it would be the same here?  

Bless your heart.



A simple "My bad, you're right" would have sufficed vs this wall of text that no one gives a shit about.

Yes but likely higher initial casualties than should be.

I like to think the meat eaters would take back control once those casualties started rolling in.
It's easy to support dei type soft garrison bullshit when your family is safe and secure, first sign of a legit threat and that shit goes up in smoke.