User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
WA, USA
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 9:50:46 AM EDT
I have been reading many articles about the car sales crisis looming. I have noted massive new car inventory on lots, and less quality used cars.
Is the massively overpriced vehicle (markups) finally catching up to the market? Is it the interest rates? The avg price of a new car being almost 50k? What do you think? Car retailers, how’s business? |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 9:54:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Cypher214]
[#1]
LOL
Somebody predicts a "collapse" every year but cars keep on selling. Carvana was supposed to "upend the traditional dealership model" but that shit ain't happening. COVID should have caused a repeat of 2008 in the car market but most dealers did just fine. Last years' higher interest rates affected car sales for awhile but that's correcting. Like everything else, sales go up and sales come down but the market adjusts accordingly and the wheels keep turning. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 9:57:00 AM EDT
[#2]
Record months in sales volume, here... Chevy GMC and Nissan point. Little heavy on Nissan inventory, but not wacky out of line... Have heard that some CDJ stores have had their floorplan credit lines suspended so the manufacturer cant just shove inventory on them...
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 10:01:15 AM EDT
[#3]
My local Toyota dealer last year at this time didn't have squat on the lot and the showroom was full of customers making deals. Hardly any new cars and you had to order one. Now the lot is fuller than full and the showroom was empty of customers when I went in for service.
|
|
|
|
WA, USA
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 10:02:05 AM EDT
[#4]
Is it abnormal for credit lines to be called on dealerships these days?
|
|
|
WA, USA
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 10:03:06 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 9mmstephen: My local Toyota dealer last year at this time didn't have squat on the lot and the showroom was full of customers making deals. Hardly any new cars and you had to order one. Now the lot is fuller than full and the showroom was empty of customers when I went in for service. This is inline with what I have been seeing , massive inventory and no customers |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 10:08:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Cypher214]
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fdawg: This is inline with what I have been seeing , massive inventory and no customers Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fdawg: Originally Posted By 9mmstephen: My local Toyota dealer last year at this time didn't have squat on the lot and the showroom was full of customers making deals. Hardly any new cars and you had to order one. Now the lot is fuller than full and the showroom was empty of customers when I went in for service. This is inline with what I have been seeing , massive inventory and no customers Oh, well if you saw it then it must be a trend. I saw a Chick-fil-A without a line the other day, they must be on the verge of collapse.  You're seeing a return to pre-COVID normalcy where dealers had lots full of new inventory and didn't have to rely on used cars to make their nut. Carmax is going to hurt for a bit because they've been paying overinflated COVID-era prices for inventory that is correcting, combined with several months of higher interest rates. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 10:09:48 AM EDT
[#7]
I sure as hell hope so. Trying to purchase a certified pre-owned Armada.
|
|
|
|
MS, USA
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 10:12:10 AM EDT
[#8]
Things sure have that late 2007 feeling. And, a lot of people thought everything was fine then, too.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 10:13:39 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ExFed1811: Things sure have that late 2007 feeling. And, a lot of people thought everything was fine then, too. Yup. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 10:14:52 AM EDT
[#10]
I never thought I’d see people paying 20-30k over MSRP for a factory new vehicle. A correction is due.
|
|
|
|
MO, USA
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 10:19:36 AM EDT
[#11]
I hope so because I really need a truck and the prices for 4-6 year old models are still asinine, but I'm skeptical.
|
|
|
LA, USA
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 10:20:03 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ISED8U: I never thought I'd see people paying 20-30k over MSRP for a factory new vehicle. A correction is due. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 10:50:59 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheLASwamp: High interest rates are hurting sales. A dealership can have sky-high prices on vehicles or they can have high interest rates. They cannot have both. They are trying to have both. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 10:52:12 AM EDT
[#14]
Collapse is extremely unlikely, but arf does love doomfap (just look at the real estate crash fap thread that is two years of blue balls and counting).
Softening of prices, with return to significant promo interest rates and other incentives? Yeah, that could easily happen. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 10:52:46 AM EDT
[#15]
The economy is getting tight at the bottom and middle, and that is where you primarily find second/third hand car buyers.
The economy at the top is asset driven and is doing OK for now, so new cars are still selling. The best deals I've seen lately have been on EV's, especially Ford EV's. They've been giving Lightings away around here. |
|
|
|
TX, USA
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 10:55:32 AM EDT
[#16]
At this point let the market tank.
Just sold my vehicle having it listed for 5 weeks. Taking only $1,000 less than my asking price and pocketing anywhere from $5,000-8,000 more than dealer trade-in or outright purchase. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 10:58:13 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By governmentman: Collapse is extremely unlikely, but arf does love doomfap (just look at the real estate crash fap thread that is two years of blue balls and counting). Softening of prices, with return to significant promo interest rates and other incentives? Yeah, that could easily happen. Good. Need another .99% rate thingy on a Tesla or other long range commuter car around this time next year
|
|
|
|
LA, USA
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 11:03:50 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By governmentman: Collapse is extremely unlikely, but arf does love doomfap (just look at the real estate crash fap thread that is two years of blue balls and counting). Softening of prices, with return to significant promo interest rates and other incentives? Yeah, that could easily happen. |
|
|
MI, USA
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 11:06:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: FJ803FE]
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cypher214: Oh, well if you saw it then it must be a trend. I saw a Chick-fil-A without a line the other day, they must be on the verge of collapse. You're seeing a return to pre-COVID normalcy where dealers had lots full of new inventory and didn't have to rely on used cars to make their nut. Carmax is going to hurt for a bit because they've been paying overinflated COVID-era prices for inventory that is correcting, combined with several months of higher interest rates. Yes and dealers are not affected by these higher interest rates  . Cars aren't moving, look at Tacoma sales for Q1, there is always going to be a lag with indicators. No one wants to pay $70k for a $40k tacoma other than the tech bro in California that might lose his job tomorrow.
|
|
|
FL, USA
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 11:09:42 AM EDT
[#20]
Hopefully. My trucks been paid off for a while. Was looking around for something newer with much less miles. The markets so crazy right now I'll just keep driving it until it dies at this point.
|
|
|
NY, USA
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 11:12:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: snakes19]
[#21]
I've been watching used car prices for a over a year now and they are definitely starting to drop. No where near pre-covid levels but much better than it has been compared to last couple of years.
EVs in particular have fallen off a cliff, you can get a barely used one for like 40% off original MSRP on a lot of models. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 11:16:15 AM EDT
[#22]
Cars aren't selling in my area. The dealer lots are overflowing. You can hardly drive through one. Most are set up so you can't circle through, you have to back up to get out. It's like a big Chinese finger trip. Lots of cars parked in the dirt on the side two-deep too.
|
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 11:23:17 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cypher214: Oh, well if you saw it then it must be a trend. I saw a Chick-fil-A without a line the other day, they must be on the verge of collapse. You're seeing a return to pre-COVID normalcy where dealers had lots full of new inventory and didn't have to rely on used cars to make their nut. Carmax is going to hurt for a bit because they've been paying overinflated COVID-era prices for inventory that is correcting, combined with several months of higher interest rates. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cypher214: Originally Posted By fdawg: Originally Posted By 9mmstephen: My local Toyota dealer last year at this time didn't have squat on the lot and the showroom was full of customers making deals. Hardly any new cars and you had to order one. Now the lot is fuller than full and the showroom was empty of customers when I went in for service. This is inline with what I have been seeing , massive inventory and no customers Oh, well if you saw it then it must be a trend. I saw a Chick-fil-A without a line the other day, they must be on the verge of collapse. You're seeing a return to pre-COVID normalcy where dealers had lots full of new inventory and didn't have to rely on used cars to make their nut. Carmax is going to hurt for a bit because they've been paying overinflated COVID-era prices for inventory that is correcting, combined with several months of higher interest rates. It's called seasonality and region specific trends. If you think prices won't return to the mean (as everything always does) I have some oceanfront property in Oklahoma for you... |
|
|
TX, USA
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 11:27:17 AM EDT
[#24]
interest rates are what's killing things right now and there is still too much price inflation over the pre-covid times in new and used
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 11:30:11 AM EDT
[#25]
Other than seeing lots of electric Mustangs on the Ford lot when I drive by, there are very few new cars at the Ford, Ram, Chevy, GMC, Toyota, dealers.
|
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 11:31:58 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AngryNagant: I sure as hell hope so. Trying to purchase a certified pre-owned Armada.  Why would you possibly want to do that? Enjoy your engine knock
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 11:33:57 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kubota3430: Other than seeing lots of electric Mustangs on the Ford lot when I drive by, there are very few new cars at the Ford, Ram, Chevy, GMC, Toyota, dealers. Opposite here the Dodge dealer is running out of space. Entire back lot is full. The same Challengers and Chargers have been sitting out front for more than 6 months. Nothing is moving. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 11:36:04 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By snakes19: I've been watching used car prices for a over a year now and they are definitely starting to drop. No where near pre-covid levels but much better than it has been compared to last couple of years. EVs in particular have fallen off a cliff, you can get a barely used one for like 40% off original MSRP on a lot of models. @snakes19 Would you buy a used EV? Seems like the tech, and related expenses once out of warranty, can get rough if the first owner rode it rough. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 11:40:51 AM EDT
[#29]
I don't know about a market collapse but the 2025 Camry LE is a hybrid and the MSRP is $29k, and right now dealers aren't demanding much of a markup. Those aren't 1999 prices but it seems like a deal today.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 11:42:50 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tallahasseezz: Opposite here the Dodge dealer is running out of space. Entire back lot is full. The same Challengers and Chargers have been sitting out front for more than 6 months. Nothing is moving. Seeing this at most dealers I drive by. Tons on the lot. The only one with any open space is Toyota. Even the buy-here pay-here lots have a ton of inventory that's sitting. |
|
|
|
NY, USA
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 11:43:57 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By towerofpower94: @snakes19 Would you buy a used EV? Seems like the tech, and related expenses once out of warranty, can get rough if the first owner rode it rough. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By towerofpower94: Originally Posted By snakes19: I've been watching used car prices for a over a year now and they are definitely starting to drop. No where near pre-covid levels but much better than it has been compared to last couple of years. EVs in particular have fallen off a cliff, you can get a barely used one for like 40% off original MSRP on a lot of models. @snakes19 Would you buy a used EV? Seems like the tech, and related expenses once out of warranty, can get rough if the first owner rode it rough. it would depend, I would need to check on reliability on the specific model and how the warranty carries over between owners |
|
|
NY, USA
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 11:45:51 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tallahasseezz: Opposite here the Dodge dealer is running out of space. Entire back lot is full. The same Challengers and Chargers have been sitting out front for more than 6 months. Nothing is moving. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tallahasseezz: Originally Posted By Kubota3430: Other than seeing lots of electric Mustangs on the Ford lot when I drive by, there are very few new cars at the Ford, Ram, Chevy, GMC, Toyota, dealers. Opposite here the Dodge dealer is running out of space. Entire back lot is full. The same Challengers and Chargers have been sitting out front for more than 6 months. Nothing is moving. RAM and Dodge have been well stocked to overflowing for almost 2 years around me. Honda lots remain barren |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 11:48:29 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By governmentman: Collapse is extremely unlikely, but arf does love doomfap (just look at the real estate crash fap thread that is two years of blue balls and counting). Softening of prices, with return to significant promo interest rates and other incentives? Yeah, that could easily happen. ... which would be a return to... normal. This current environment of paying over MSRP is... not fun. |
|
|
|
TX, USA
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 11:50:26 AM EDT
[#34]
I’m eagerly waiting for a decent deal on a Toyota Sienna. Probably won’t ever happen since it’s a Toyota.
|
|
|
WA, USA
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 11:53:30 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cypher214: Oh, well if you saw it then it must be a trend. I saw a Chick-fil-A without a line the other day, they must be on the verge of collapse. You're seeing a return to pre-COVID normalcy where dealers had lots full of new inventory and didn't have to rely on used cars to make their nut. Carmax is going to hurt for a bit because they've been paying overinflated COVID-era prices for inventory that is correcting, combined with several months of higher interest rates. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cypher214: Originally Posted By fdawg: Originally Posted By 9mmstephen: My local Toyota dealer last year at this time didn't have squat on the lot and the showroom was full of customers making deals. Hardly any new cars and you had to order one. Now the lot is fuller than full and the showroom was empty of customers when I went in for service. This is inline with what I have been seeing , massive inventory and no customers Oh, well if you saw it then it must be a trend. I saw a Chick-fil-A without a line the other day, they must be on the verge of collapse. You're seeing a return to pre-COVID normalcy where dealers had lots full of new inventory and didn't have to rely on used cars to make their nut. Carmax is going to hurt for a bit because they've been paying overinflated COVID-era prices for inventory that is correcting, combined with several months of higher interest rates. I am certainly not saying my anecdotal evidence is fact, what I am seeing is many articles and videos talking about massive new car inventory, very little trade ins, and increased repossessions. This along with car lots getting credit lines called is at least worth looking at. I am interested in hearing more about the correcting you are seeing. Prices here are still jacked. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 11:59:18 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By governmentman: Collapse is extremely unlikely, but arf does love doomfap (just look at the real estate crash fap thread that is two years of blue balls and counting). Softening of prices, with return to significant promo interest rates and other incentives? Yeah, that could easily happen. What you talking about? Bunch of Econ grads in here! Get back in your lane! |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 12:02:02 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By snakes19: I've been watching used car prices for a over a year now and they are definitely starting to drop. No where near pre-covid levels but much better than it has been compared to last couple of years. EVs in particular have fallen off a cliff, you can get a barely used one for like 40% off original MSRP on a lot of models. I wish there was a greater supply of gmc denalis. Last time I got one from carmax, it came from fucking Las Vegas. But, it was 3 years old, with less than 13k miles. Previously owned by an engineering firm. |
|
|
|
UT, USA
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 12:02:37 PM EDT
[#38]
It's slowing because of the economy. Inflation and interest rates. Collapse? Probably not. Will it clear out poorly-managed dealers? Probably.
I'm happy that for once I timed it right and got the most for my used cars and a decent deal on my JT. 6 months later I was reading about JT owners being offered more than MSRP to trade up to the new model year, which some took. Then pricing became unreasonable (at least for me). We got a JT instead of a Tacoma because 1) in stock, no waiting and 2) no ADM, which was $2500-$10k for a Tacoma in the Seattle area. Last fall was the best deals available for JTs, as they were dropping prices to normal levels (not the artificially-high MSRPs). A JT Rubicon or Mojave could be found for less than $50k, with a couple decent options. Just before Christmas we were looking at picking up a little manual runabout car. We found a GTI and offered $1400 below the list price. Dealer said no, never called us later to offer a counter offer, ended up shipping it to another dealer. Probably went to auction after that. |
|
|
MO, USA
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 12:03:15 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ISED8U: I never thought I’d see people paying 20-30k over MSRP for a factory new vehicle. A correction is due. I was more shocked that banks made those loans. Then I remembered they’ll just get another round of bailouts when massive numbers of people default on auto loans. Bound to happen when people agree that far upside down on their auto loans. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 12:03:17 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1245xx: What you talking about? Bunch of Econ grads in here! Get back in your lane! |
|
|
|
MO, USA
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 12:06:03 PM EDT
[#41]
I’m ready to buy a new truck but I’m not paying these prices. I’ll wait for the correction.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 12:07:17 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Andrewsky: Well there have been 3 stock market crashes in the last 25 years... And I made a lot of money after each one. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 12:14:58 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1245xx: What you talking about? Bunch of Econ grads in here! Get back in your lane! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1245xx: Originally Posted By governmentman: Collapse is extremely unlikely, but arf does love doomfap (just look at the real estate crash fap thread that is two years of blue balls and counting). Softening of prices, with return to significant promo interest rates and other incentives? Yeah, that could easily happen. What you talking about? Bunch of Econ grads in here! Get back in your lane! my degree really is in economics. 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 12:20:00 PM EDT
[#44]
I've got one turning 16 soon. I sure hope something goes down that market.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 12:25:37 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By governmentman: my degree really is in economics. I can see that! You and yoda ought to team up for realistic reports. |
|
|
|
NC, USA
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 12:33:16 PM EDT
[#46]
I have been shopping for a used car for about three months. What I'm seeing is plenty of new trucks on the lot, and more cars and SUVs in stock than before. Used selection is absolute shit. I've seen used cars at big dealerships that were in absolutely terrible condition. Dents, faded paint, ruined interiors seem to be the norm now, not the exception.
|
|
|
NM, USA
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 12:34:30 PM EDT
[#47]
I'm sure it's very location specific, but we just spent 5 days scouring car lots in the ABQ area. Every car lot is packed full of cars, trucks and suv's. We did find quite a few used vehicles that the dealers were currently buried in and would not move much on the pricing. That being said, unless it was a Ranger Raptor, Bronco Raptor or Raptor Raptor, ADM's are almost completely gone here. In fact, most salesmen, when you get them talking, admit that most people aren't even paying MSRP anymore. They say the jump from $5k over to under MSRP has been very rapid. We ended up right at 12% under MSRP on my son's first new car. He was going to wait till the end of the year, but he has been saving for a long time for this and didn't want to wait any longer. Ended up putting over 50% down and financing the rest for 36 months for 3.9%. Considering how bad I got fucked during Covid for a new work truck, I consider that a win. I'm sure they still made money, but back to a more realistic representation of the way it used to be.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 12:40:18 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BUCKSTALKER: Why would you possibly want to do that? Enjoy your engine knock |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 12:47:40 PM EDT
[#49]
Originally Posted By fdawg: I have been reading many articles about the car sales crisis looming. I have noted massive new car inventory on lots, and less quality used cars. Is the massively overpriced vehicle (markups) finally catching up to the market? Is it the interest rates? The avg price of a new car being almost 50k? What do you think? Car retailers, how’s business? the entire automotive buisness is in freefall and stagnation.... i do part, i should be doing 40% more than what i am. Big shops are closing, small shops are closing its not good |
|
|
|
UT, USA
|
Posted: 5/14/2024 12:48:28 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By morning_would: I'm sure they still made money, but back to a more realistic representation of the way it used to be. I've stopped helping my parents with buying new cars. I did some legwork and through a contact I got a price estimate from a dealer on a similar vehicle they were looking at, but much lower price. I told my mom to offer the dealer that price, or she'll go to another dealer (states away, not local) that will offer the same vehicle at that price. My mom said it was too expensive. Ended up buying a Volvo that was $10k more. Why do I even f**king bother? |
|
|
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
