Every time I visit my dad in Spain I fall in love again with the little i4 diesels, and wonder what could have been. He told me the EU is after them there, too.

If I don't buy a ford EV, they can give me $100,000 and come out $32,000 ahead.

If you buy one you've got to pick it up and do the paperwork somewhere. They'll ship to your house, but it's easier to go to the local location.

So it’s now an epa superfund site?

Insert soup Nazi meme.   No cars for you.

Do not sell cars to those states...period.  

Just stop making EVs and let Tesla have that market.  ICE vehicles for everyone else.

lol...

I think the biggest takeaway here is that no one knows how to deal with these EVs yet.

No one. It was forced on us too quick.

The last time I was in Europe, in 2019, we rented a Peugeot compact that had little 4 cylinder turbo-diesel mated to a 5 speed manual. That thing got stupid good fuel economy, I want to say 50-60 mpg?

It was fun as hell to drive too. Definitely the way.

They can’t expect the small homosexual population to carry that level of production.

HERE I COME:  THE GOVERNMENT

Sorry that is too easy and works well and makes people happy u will need to buy our gay certified wind powered car

Plus it's reported that the big investment funds and banks started un-funding the petro industries, quite intentionally.

@Foxtro08

The skyactiv engines show what a true lean burn can do too.

Our regulatory thugocracies have deemed it to be not so, though.

We don't know if tesla would exist without the government stealing money from others to float them.

Also, there aren't enough minerals out there to mine in order to replace all the vehicles using petroleum based powerplants. Much less the entire electrical grid.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Simon+Michaux

In this thread we find who understands Capex and who's just out here yeetin' claims with no context.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/capitalexpenditure.asp


Ok ... so what are you getting at?

Are these financial loses including the massive taxpayer funded subsidies given to the mfg by the virtue signalling Congress Cu#+s?

Business 101.  You take your losses and spread it out amongst your profitable products.  

And we the consumers get to pay for their pet EV projects that they lose money on.

Not in WI they cant. Thats why they built 2 dealerships here because of a stupid state law.

Big number

Need more tits ... Just saying

This.  While it's great to laugh at these companies who drank the climate change kool aid by hook or crook, in the end none of us will laugh at those costs when they are extracted from us through more gubmint taxation.  Those treasuries ain't gonna pay themselves.

Pushed to sell coal powered vehicles in 2024...lol.

If only their college educated from business school resisted but nope. Would've have been better off hiring garbage men to run their marketing.

Explain why this is wrong...

Tesla is the only company that profits from electric vehicles because manufacturing is designed around it and they charge what it takes to make a profit.  

Every other manufacturer only makes them to lower their fleet mileage for government bullshit .  The upcharge every other vehicle to make up the loss.

I'm getting at the fact that developing products costs money. Tooling up to build new vehicles costs money.  They won't return their investment on EVs for a hot minute. Remember all the "Tesla bankruptcy looming" threads when they lost money for every car? Only once the tooling is paid down and the majority of the one time costs, R&D, etc are taken care of will a new product see profitability.  Whether it will actually continue to be viable as a business model for Ford remains to be seen.

Mine has been good thus far.

Ford used to get freaked out when some small economy cars had very little markup like $600. If those cars were lemons and had a lot of recalls or warranty work they could lose money on them.

But not $134,000

There is a joke.  An Engineer, a Lawyer, and an accountant discuss what 2+2 equals.  The Engineer started doing equations to prove what 2+2 equaled.  The Lawyer said he would need to check case law and statutory law.  The Accountant asked - what do you want it to equal?

There are many ways to calculate the cost per unit.  A journalist can use any, and will often use the one best for their article.  Do you want to amortize fixed cost - over what period or how many units?  Do you want to add in depreciation for equipment being used, but not purchased specifically for this project (like the factory)?  Are you looking at the marginal cost per unit?

I can only assume that R&D cost was still being spent last year.  Ford might make a production run for 1/2 a decade or more, and even after that run - they still get some value out of that R&D as the next vehicle is not 100% new.
----
Sure they lost a shit ton of money - but the marginal cost per vehicle was probably either a small profit or close to break even.  If they can get their shit out of their ass and not have to continue to dump money into R&D on the existing models - They might be able to make a profit and eventually cut some of last years losses.  That said, most of last years R&D was probably for future models anyway.
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One problem virtually every legacy company has is legacy R&D.  They wanted to leverage that to get out of the gate quickly.  Tesla had a blank slate, so they designed from the ground up to cut marginal cost for vehicles (they were going to spend R&D anyway).  While Tesla is still doing R&D I am sure - their R&D is far more controlled at this point.  Plus a good part of that R&D is still to cut cost per unit - not how to figure out how to build a working EV anymore.  Who really knows what their current R&D costs are for future models - but the best guess right now is Model 2, which will have the lowest marginal cost of any vehicle Tesla has ever produced.


I am pretty sure it is safe to say Tesla has the lowest production cost for an EV in the industry (especially for comparative models - you can not really compare an EV truck to a EV subcompact car).  They have the lowest battery cost /kwh in the industry as well (because that is something they invested heavily in getting).  At the moment, they probably have the best batteries, but I suspect a decent amount of money is being spent to make sure they don't loose that lead either.

Good.

Yes, however it will be much harder for Ford to adjust their manufacturing to reign in costs. Tesla is designed around vertical integration and manically focused on margins. Ford is still operating like a traditional car company and will have to purchase many of the EV components from other companies which will make it difficult to have a profit margin and sell at a competitive price. Tesla and the Chinese companies are likely the only two capable of doing that for the near future.

This is what Ford was saying about it in July of 2023.


source

So their actual losses per vehicle exceeded these estimates, and have more than doubled in less than a year.

Think about where we are, where this leads, and remember what was said by those now behind the scenes.

Attached File

So,....... they're gonna keep making them?  Brilliant!

Maybe Uncle Sammy will allow them to stay in business.

Remember, gov't is forcing companies to do this or they will get shut down by the heavy hand of gov't regulations.

The stupid government is buying Ferd EVs for Border Patrol. Along with millions of dollars worth of solar chargers to set up in remote areas. Any bets on how soon the equipment shits the bed in 110 degree summers?

Have no fear....

.Gov bailout will be incoming.

We handle a Tesla fleet where I work. Things need brakes and tires like every 20,000km due to added weight of the batteries. So environmentally friendly lol.

BeatsofftoEVs?

Government mandates

Yes, our tax dollars at work.

shhh....the automotive luddites are having a good time. No need to ruin it with facts.

Toyota has seem to have found a way.

A successful business cannot be run by engineers for the long term, but a successful business cannot be run without them either….  It’s not one extreme or another, it’s all about the balance

They should tighten that shit up!

Look at the state-level regs already quoted. These states combined represent a large enough percentage of the total US market as to make selling EVs a de facto federal mandate. Meanwhile, DOJ, who should be suing under the interstate commerce clause, is spending all its time rounding up J6 ruffians and coordinating Trump's kangaroo courts.

No, they haven't. At this point, their choices are to either play chicken with the states that have agreed to conform to CA regs banning  non-EVs, or to race to play catchup to build EVs on their own.

Alfred Sloan disagreed with you, and he pretty much has scoreboard over every non-technical CEO who's ever lived.

Engineers with business acumen or business men with engineering understanding are 1) very rare and 2) incredibly valuable.

The Jack Welch and Alfred Sloans of the world aren’t exactly common place.  

If you took the majority of lead engineer and stuck them with strategy, process, vision, financial decisions they typically won’t succeed.  But neither will a guy who doesn’t understand how or why the things their company produces are able to be produced and the cost structures and limitations of that production.

For any large company they need a balance of financial, vision, strategic, and engineering experiences to succeed.  Currently ford does not have the balance.

I’m torn.

On the one hand, fuck ford, fuck EV’s, and doubly fuck the retards trying to force those rolling bundles of thermite onto us.

On the other, I’d rather not see even more of my tax dollars going towards bailing out those fucktards after losing their ass, even after all the subsidizing and tax breaks.