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Posted: 4/26/2024 5:19:58 PM EDT
Millions of workers will have more freedom over where they work should a recent Federal Trade Commission ban on nearly all noncompete agreements take effect.
In interviews with The Wall Street Journal, workers largely cheered the new rule. They say they are already thinking about ways a ban on noncompetes could help them and others change jobs and earn more. Many major employers, on the other hand, are fighting the decision with a challenge in federal court filed by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and backed by the Business Roundtable, which represents chief executive officers of some of the country's biggest employers. Some employers are also preparing to change the way they train and pay their workers. The ban is set to go into effect at the end of August, but could be delayed or struck down by lawsuits. The new rules shift the balance of power between U.S. workers and their bosses yet again, following years of workplace clashes over remote work and pay, as well as a wave of resignations and layoffs. Employees say noncompetes have kept them tied to bad bosses or unreasonably limited their career mobility. Businesses say they need noncompetes to protect trade secrets and other confidential information, including customer lists and financial data. Noncompete clauses in employment contracts have proliferated in recent years. They prohibit people across industries and pay grades from fast-food workers to medical doctors from easily moving to other employers or starting new ventures of their own. moar |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 5:21:44 PM EDT
[#1]
I hate non-competes. If I don’t work for you anymore, you have no say over me.
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Posted: 4/26/2024 5:22:49 PM EDT
[#2]
Yea i really hate to see the out of touch boomers in upper management positions have to actually compete by providing a good work environment, competitive salary, and good benefits instead of locking them in with paperwork they force people to sign because they spend money on lawyers and not increasing salaries.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/26/2024 5:23:49 PM EDT
[#3]
Those damn millenials need to pull up those bootstraps and try to have some company loyalty
Don't they know how hard that CEO has it so they can have a great life? |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 5:23:59 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By manderson1911: Yea i really hate to see the out of touch boomers in upper management positions have to actually compete by providing a good work environment, competitive salary, and good benefits instead of locking them in with paperwork they force people to sign because they spend money on lawyers and not increasing salaries. 
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Posted: 4/26/2024 5:24:30 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By manderson1911: Yea i really hate to see the out of touch boomers in upper management positions have to actually compete by providing a good work environment, competitive salary, and good benefits instead of locking them in with paperwork they force people to sign because they spend money on lawyers and not increasing salaries. This. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 5:24:43 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By redseven11b: Those damn millenials need to pull up those bootstraps and try to have some company loyalty Don't they know how hard that CEO has it so they can have a great life? Peter Gibbons : The thing is, Bob, it's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care. Bob Porter : Don't... don't care? Peter Gibbons : It's a problem of motivation, all right? Now if I work my ass off and Initech ships a few extra units, I don't see another dime, so where's the motivation? And here's something else, Bob: I have eight different bosses right now. Bob Slydell : I beg your pardon? Peter Gibbons : Eight bosses. Bob Slydell : Eight? Peter Gibbons : Eight, Bob. So that means that when I make a mistake, I have eight different people coming by to tell me about it. That's my only real motivation is not to be hassled, that and the fear of losing my job. But you know, Bob, that will only make someone work just hard enough not to get fired. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 4/26/2024 5:28:04 PM EDT
[#7]
If corporate America wanted employees to be loyal to the company for decades like the boomers were, maybe they should compensate people at the same relative rate as they did then.
Wages have been stagnant for decades, switching jobs is the best way to earn more. If you want me to stay, well, fuck you pay me. My current company does okay on raises, they beat inflation every time, but they also give me a fuck ton of stock awards every year. Surprise surprise, I broke my “stay somewhere for 2 years then switch” rule because they are paying me. It’s not hard. Supply and demand applies to labor, too. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 5:28:42 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JLPettimoreIII: Peter Gibbons : The thing is, Bob, it's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care. Bob Porter : Don't... don't care? Peter Gibbons : It's a problem of motivation, all right? Now if I work my ass off and Initech ships a few extra units, I don't see another dime, so where's the motivation? And here's something else, Bob: I have eight different bosses right now. Bob Slydell : I beg your pardon? Peter Gibbons : Eight bosses. Bob Slydell : Eight? Peter Gibbons : Eight, Bob. So that means that when I make a mistake, I have eight different people coming by to tell me about it. That's my only real motivation is not to be hassled, that and the fear of losing my job. But you know, Bob, that will only make someone work just hard enough not to get fired. Yup. A lot of truth there. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 5:31:19 PM EDT
[#9]
Non compete have never stood up to legal scrutiny or challlenge. It’s a scare tactic. As the prophet cartman once said “screw you, I do what I want”
NDA? Sure. But not non compete. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 4/26/2024 5:31:55 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By redseven11b: Don't they know how hard that CEO has it so they can have a great life? Exactly, my company just announced revenue increases in the 20% Range followed by annual raises two weeks later in the 2-4% range. They basically handed everything down to the employees |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 5:35:22 PM EDT
[#11]
So are employees allowed to take customers to a competitor asking for a friend, including corporate secrets, bids, pricing strategies, etc? Asking for a boomer
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Posted: 4/26/2024 5:36:02 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By burnprocess: I hate non-competes. If I don’t work for you anymore, you have no say over me. Don’t sign a contract you don’t like? |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 5:38:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: burnprocess]
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NotAFudd: So are employees allowed to take customers to a competitor asking for a friend, including corporate secrets, bids, pricing strategies, etc? Asking for a boomer How would taking a customer with you include your (presumably) prior company’s corporate secrets, etc.? Wouldn’t your customers (assuming they do business with you in your new environment) be subject to whatever secrets, pricing, etc. therein? Not seeing how you are relinquishing any sensitive information by having someone follow you to a new company. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 4/26/2024 5:38:32 PM EDT
[#14]
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Posted: 4/26/2024 5:38:43 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wakeboarder: Don’t sign a contract you don’t like? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wakeboarder: Originally Posted By burnprocess: I hate non-competes. If I don’t work for you anymore, you have no say over me. Don’t sign a contract you don’t like? Exactly. I don’t sign them. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 4/26/2024 5:38:45 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BourbonBeast: If corporate America wanted employees to be loyal to the company for decades like the boomers were, maybe they should compensate people at the same relative rate as they did then. Wages have been stagnant for decades, switching jobs is the best way to earn more. If you want me to stay, well, fuck you pay me. My current company does okay on raises, they beat inflation every time, but they also give me a fuck ton of stock awards every year. Surprise surprise, I broke my “stay somewhere for 2 years then switch” rule because they are paying me. It’s not hard. Supply and demand applies to labor, too.  Attached File |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 5:40:12 PM EDT
[#17]
Good, make the labor market more competitive and hopefully wages start to trend upwards in the process.
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NV, USA
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Posted: 4/26/2024 5:41:26 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By manderson1911: Yea i really hate to see the out of touch boomers in upper management positions have to actually compete by providing a good work environment, competitive salary, and good benefits instead of locking them in with paperwork they force people to sign because they spend money on lawyers and not increasing salaries. “If you do t like it, don’t work here!”- Management “Ok, fine, I’ll get a better job elsewhere”-Workers “No, you can’t!”-Management “I’ll start my own job with blackjack and hookers!”-Workers |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 4/26/2024 5:43:58 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BourbonBeast: If corporate America wanted employees to be loyal to the company for decades like the boomers were, maybe they should compensate people at the same relative rate as they did then. Wages have been stagnant for decades, switching jobs is the best way to earn more. If you want me to stay, well, fuck you pay me. My current company does okay on raises, they beat inflation every time, but they also give me a fuck ton of stock awards every year. Surprise surprise, I broke my “stay somewhere for 2 years then switch” rule because they are paying me. It’s not hard. Supply and demand applies to labor, too. Rrrr…Ra…Ra…aise pa…Y? Raise Pay? What language is that I don’t understand”-Bob the Boomer Management |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 5:45:46 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dagoth-Ur: Rrrr…Ra…Ra…aise pa…Y? Raise Pay? What language is that I don’t understand”-Bob the Boomer Management Exactly. “Raise? Nah, pizza party for a good month and jeans on Fridays.” |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 5:45:48 PM EDT
[#21]
After the election, nobody will care when this rule is tossed out in court.
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NV, USA
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Posted: 4/26/2024 5:47:06 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By eagarminuteman: Good, make the labor market more competitive and hopefully wages start to trend upwards in the process. Cut immigration to a 1/10 it’s current rate and watch incomes sky rocket . |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 5:54:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: eagarminuteman]
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dagoth-Ur: Cut immigration to a 1/10 it’s current rate and watch incomes sky rocket . 1/10? What if we limit it to strictly European and Asian countries on top of that? |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 4/26/2024 5:55:37 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By manderson1911: Yea i really hate to see the out of touch boomers in upper management positions have to actually compete by providing a good work environment, competitive salary, and good benefits instead of locking them in with paperwork they force people to sign because they spend money on lawyers and not increasing salaries. My man. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 5:57:56 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By burnprocess: How would taking a customer with you include your (presumably) prior company’s corporate secrets, etc.? Wouldn’t your customers (assuming they do business with you in your new environment) be subject to whatever secrets, pricing, etc. therein? Not seeing how you are relinquishing any sensitive information by having someone follow you to a new company. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By burnprocess: Originally Posted By NotAFudd: So are employees allowed to take customers to a competitor asking for a friend, including corporate secrets, bids, pricing strategies, etc? Asking for a boomer How would taking a customer with you include your (presumably) prior company’s corporate secrets, etc.? Wouldn’t your customers (assuming they do business with you in your new environment) be subject to whatever secrets, pricing, etc. therein? Not seeing how you are relinquishing any sensitive information by having someone follow you to a new company. Yeah I mean I too don’t like any level of critical thinking beyond “I am for or against things” that’s the type of black and white thinking that definitely moves societies in the right direction. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 5:59:06 PM EDT
[#26]
The only way I'd sign a non-compete is if it was accompanied with a check for my salary plus bonuses for the length of the non compete.
Other than that you're taking my ability to make a living off the table, pound sand. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 5:59:43 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NotAFudd: Yeah I mean I too don’t like any level of critical thinking beyond “I am for or against things” that’s the type of black and white thinking that definitely moves societies in the right direction. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NotAFudd: Originally Posted By burnprocess: Originally Posted By NotAFudd: So are employees allowed to take customers to a competitor asking for a friend, including corporate secrets, bids, pricing strategies, etc? Asking for a boomer How would taking a customer with you include your (presumably) prior company’s corporate secrets, etc.? Wouldn’t your customers (assuming they do business with you in your new environment) be subject to whatever secrets, pricing, etc. therein? Not seeing how you are relinquishing any sensitive information by having someone follow you to a new company. Yeah I mean I too don’t like any level of critical thinking beyond “I am for or against things” that’s the type of black and white thinking that definitely moves societies in the right direction. Not being sardonic, I literally don’t know what you’re getting at with that. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 6:00:11 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By burnprocess: I hate non-competes. If I don’t work for you anymore, you have no say over me. THIS! I can understand non-disclosures. If you dont pay me you have no say on where i work. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 6:01:03 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ServusVeritatis: THIS! I can understand non-disclosures. If you dont pay me you have no say on where i work. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ServusVeritatis: Originally Posted By burnprocess: I hate non-competes. If I don’t work for you anymore, you have no say over me. THIS! I can understand non-disclosures. If you dont pay me you have no say on where i work. Yes. I understand NDAs. Non-competes? Fuck off. You don’t pay me, you don’t have a say. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 6:02:12 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By burnprocess: Yes. I understand NDAs. Non-competes? Fuck off. You don’t pay me, you don’t have a say. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By burnprocess: Originally Posted By ServusVeritatis: Originally Posted By burnprocess: I hate non-competes. If I don’t work for you anymore, you have no say over me. THIS! I can understand non-disclosures. If you dont pay me you have no say on where i work. Yes. I understand NDAs. Non-competes? Fuck off. You don’t pay me, you don’t have a say. this |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 6:03:04 PM EDT
[#31]
the Feds have absolutely no authority to make this declaration.
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Posted: 4/26/2024 6:03:20 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NotAFudd: So are employees allowed to take customers to a competitor asking for a friend, including corporate secrets, bids, pricing strategies, etc? Asking for a boomer Make it worth the employees time to not leave if you’re worried about that. Why should employees be told they aren’t allowed to work in their field by a previous employer? |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 6:04:05 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By burnprocess: Yup. A lot of truth there.
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Posted: 4/26/2024 6:04:17 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By aggiesq: the Feds have absolutely no authority to make this declaration. Because clearly the better option is to allow corporations to tell past employees what fields they can and can’t work in? |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 6:07:06 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By eagarminuteman: Because clearly the better option is to allow corporations to tell past employees what fields they can and can’t work in? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By eagarminuteman: Originally Posted By aggiesq: the Feds have absolutely no authority to make this declaration. Because clearly the better option is to allow corporations to tell past employees what fields they can and can’t work in? the better option is to follow the constitutional limits on federal government power. the federal govt doesnt have this power legitimately, and thats doubly true about some administrative agency ruling by fiat. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 6:08:50 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By aggiesq: the Feds have absolutely no authority to make this declaration. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 6:09:48 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By aggiesq: the better option is to follow the constitutional limits on federal government power. the federal govt doesnt have this power legitimately, and thats doubly true about some administrative agency ruling by fiat. If we’re mad about the constitutional limits of federal power being abused, let’s start with things that matter like the NFA, GCA, and Hughes Amendment. Not being mad that corporations aren't allowed to control the labor market. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 4/26/2024 6:11:16 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By aggiesq: the Feds have absolutely no authority to make this declaration. Yeah this was one of those things the older management generation brought upon themselves… fuckem they deserve it. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 6:13:45 PM EDT
[#39]
I've never really understood non-competes.
I thought the American Dream was to go somewhere, learn a skill, decide you can do it better, leaving, doing it better until you fail and go back to work for their competitor, lather rinse and repeat ad infinitum? go call any skilled trade company in the phonebook and ask them how they developed their skillset. .... Now I am gonna teach you this, but you can never use it against me. Ok? lol |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 6:18:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: aggiesq]
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By eagarminuteman: If we’re mad about the constitutional limits of federal power being abused, let’s start with things that matter like the NFA, GCA, and Hughes Amendment. Not being mad that corporations aren't allowed to control the labor market. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By eagarminuteman: Originally Posted By aggiesq: the better option is to follow the constitutional limits on federal government power. the federal govt doesnt have this power legitimately, and thats doubly true about some administrative agency ruling by fiat. If we’re mad about the constitutional limits of federal power being abused, let’s start with things that matter like the NFA, GCA, and Hughes Amendment. Not being mad that corporations aren't allowed to control the labor market. or be mad about all of it and dont ignore it just because you like the result of their abuse in a particular case and those at least were exercised through congress, not unelected administrative agencies |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 6:21:03 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By aggiesq: the Feds have absolutely no authority to make this declaration. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 6:23:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: eagarminuteman]
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By aggiesq: or be mad about all of it and dont ignore it just because you like the result of their abuse in a particular case and those at least were exercised through congress, not unelected administrative agencies Congress can’t pull its head out of its ass currently to do anything that benefits the majority of Americans. They haven’t been able to for decades. They’re too busy arguing over Ukrainian and Israeli foreign aid. I ain’t gonna be mad that someone else stepped in to do it for them for once. If the constitution mattered to conservatives as much as they claim it does, there would have been riots decades ago. Beyond that it’s empty words. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 6:25:07 PM EDT
[#43]
I was asked to sign a non-compete doc in the late 80s. I was years ahead of any of the companies current installation technicians. I declined. They asked that I not tell anyone that I refused. I didn't tell anybody. Their idiot service manager did tell everyone. He was pissed off at me for some reason
 . The service manager played games with my first commission check, and pro-rated(?) quarterly bonus. I quit, I got most of what I was owed. I still got fucked for over $2k. A revolt was started within their installation tech ranks. The techs won  . Service manager got fired after big boss man started fucking up his life.
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Posted: 4/26/2024 6:26:21 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By zach_: I was asked to sign a non-compete doc in the late 80s. I was years ahead of any of the companies current installation technicians. I declined. They asked that I not tell anyone that I refused. I didn't tell anybody. Their idiot service manager did tell everyone. He was pissed off at me for some reason . The service manager played games with my first commission check, and pro-rated(?) quarterly bonus. I quit, I got most of what I was owed. I still got fucked for over $2k. A revolt was started within their installation tech ranks. The techs won . Service manager got fired after big boss man started fucking up his life.Love to hear about it. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/26/2024 6:29:04 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NotAFudd: Yeah I mean I too don’t like any level of critical thinking beyond “I am for or against things” that’s the type of black and white thinking that definitely moves societies in the right direction. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NotAFudd: Originally Posted By burnprocess: Originally Posted By NotAFudd: So are employees allowed to take customers to a competitor asking for a friend, including corporate secrets, bids, pricing strategies, etc? Asking for a boomer How would taking a customer with you include your (presumably) prior company’s corporate secrets, etc.? Wouldn’t your customers (assuming they do business with you in your new environment) be subject to whatever secrets, pricing, etc. therein? Not seeing how you are relinquishing any sensitive information by having someone follow you to a new company. Yeah I mean I too don’t like any level of critical thinking beyond “I am for or against things” that’s the type of black and white thinking that definitely moves societies in the right direction. There are laws against misappropriation of trade secrets, which aren't touched by this FTC action. Some of the activities you describe fall within that category. There are also tort causes of action and breach of contract (NDA) actions the company could pursue. Part of the problem was, it's easy to see why, e.g., the VP of Marketing for PepsiCo North America probably shouldn't be immediately allowed to step into the door of Coca-Cola North America and take the same position on Day 1. The employee is going to inevitably use the information given to them by their old employer, to the detriment of that old employer. As time goes by, that confidential information becomes less valuable, and so maybe a contract where that officer is barred from working in a competing position for a limited time might be justifiable. Those situations are rare. What ended up happening was companies grossly overapplying that tool to a bunch of people who lacked that knowledge, or other means of instantly harming the former employer and, oligarchies being like they do, Corporate America lock-step thought this was great. I don't think the FTC has a 1/10th of the required rule making power to make this stick. I also don't care. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/26/2024 6:30:02 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By burnprocess: How would taking a customer with you include your (presumably) prior company’s corporate secrets, etc.? Wouldn’t your customers (assuming they do business with you in your new environment) be subject to whatever secrets, pricing, etc. therein? Not seeing how you are relinquishing any sensitive information by having someone follow you to a new company. I have had training for engineers from I think the state of Alabama which made it clear that asking clients to follow you to a new company was illegal. If they want to follow you that is fine, but you can't ask them to do it. |
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MT, USA
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Posted: 4/26/2024 6:32:53 PM EDT
[#47]
Always applicable on topics like this:
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USA
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Posted: 4/26/2024 6:32:54 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By burnprocess: Yes. I understand NDAs. Non-competes? Fuck off. You don’t pay me, you don’t have a say. Great example is F1. F1 contracts for important personnel usual have what they call a gardeners leave policy because it makes no sense to allow someone intimately involved with designing your car to be allowed to immediately jump to a competing team and use all the knowledge you just learned for your new team. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 4/26/2024 6:36:00 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By manderson1911: Yea i really hate to see the out of touch boomers in upper management positions have to actually compete by providing a good work environment, competitive salary, and good benefits instead of locking them in with paperwork they force people to sign because they spend money on lawyers and not increasing salaries. While I share your sentiment on NCCs , using it as an excuse to bash boomers says alot about you. No boomer anywhere has ever forced you to take a job . |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 6:49:10 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By burnprocess: I hate non-competes. If I don’t work for you anymore, you have no say over me. |
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