Thank you.

Yes, was banned. It was resolved.

Oh boy. Sorry.

There are generally two differences between images from the two tubes - in the green Harris ones, objects are generally a little farther away, than the ones in the wp ones, so there would be a loss of details with objects in those images.

There is a lot more lighting in the wp ones, as noted be the greater amount of shadows on the ground in the green images.

A proper comparison of the two tubes is done by taking images at the same distance and time, and the exposure recorded, so people will be able to tell which images were brightened or adjusted by the camera's exposure system

Standard Iphone7, never have messed with any camera settings on it. Like I've said a couple times now, not a great photographer and don't claim to be

Two images may look similar, but if the exposure on one had twice the time of exposure, that image is significantly dimmer, which is why knowing the exposure is relevant.

Just looked at all the settings I could under "camera" on my Iphone. Under "HDR" the "keep normal photo" icon is clicked off and under it is says:
"HDR blends the best parts of three separate exposures into a single photo."

Is this what you mean?

I feel like there is no way one can make universal statements like this about tube types. Making a statement ablout ALL Harris tubes or ALL WP tubes cannot be true.
I agree that generally this could be true, but the totalitarian type of response here makes the whole point seem unfounded.

Boy as many already said this thread is a breath of fresh air around here. When I read the above I (along with many here) knew exactly WHO you were talking about because a few others have experienced the same. In fact the owner of this company has completely lost the respect of many core folks in various circles in this business from his extremely disrespectful and unprofessional behavior. Well, karma's a bitch. The backchannels run deep and I know of at least a hundred thousand dollars or more in orders directed away from said company because of the various stories of poor, unprofessional and unhinged actions.

Think about this for a bit everyone, read the bolded lines above and how many immediately know exactly who this is. Think about what a toxic person you'd have to be such that we can all identify him so easily from the above quote and think twice about doing business with his company.

Robert, so much respect here that you pushed back with having other commercial parties refrain comment on your thread. Thank you.

So, assuming the budget was unlimited for a set of the latest and greatest BNVGs which tubes would you guys choose?  INTENS 4G WP or Harris WP?

+1

Robert’s earned a great deal of respect from me with how he’s conducted himself here. Firm and direct, all while remaining professional. Not to mention the willingness to provide honest knowledge, data, and insight.

Definitely hope to see more from him in future discussions. Although, I may have just missed his posts in the past (I’m only a sideline observer in most things NV related). Either way, thank you for all you’ve brought to the conversation Robert.

Not only has this been a breath of fresh air, but it’s been eye opening as well. Although, not in a surprising way. As it only confirms some of my suspicions and perceptions.

Keep it up!

That quote is completely par for course for the owner of that vendor to call you that.  Many have years of archives of tempter tantrum like private P.Ms. to members and crying and demanding to mods attempting to get folks banned.  He makes it personal, rude, distasteful and completely unprofessional. The guy carries himself completely without class. Many here may not realize what goes on behind the scenes with the owner of this company so thank you Robert for starting to share your stories. The folks who work for him seem like great guys, nothing against them but it's unfortunate his actions make his company look bad along with himself.

Robert, keep posting. Act professional and with class & respect (a low bar to meet given how other business owners act) and you'll go far with the folks around here.

Both would be good options, *for me* it would come down to individual specs and price.

Some great options in BNVD's now including the MINI B. However that one utilizes buttons instead of a knob for gain control.

BNVD UL (Ultra lite) utilizes KNOBS (sorry was typing too fast!)  and the weight isn't far off from the Mini B so that's another option also.

All of the BNVD options articulate and have the channel cutoff feature wherein each tube will shut off individually when rolled up to the side, as well as turning the whole set off when flipped up in helmet mount setup.

We were making some adjustments to my son's laser last range trip (Sunday night) and I was using the heck out of that feature keeping the right tube focused in tighter for checking targets and making adjustments and keeping the left tube set normally for shooting and viewing. Then rolling the one that wasn't needed up to shut it off. Pretty handy feature IMO.

As a long time member here, I just have to say again how interesting it is to see how things have unfolded over the last few months here.  It is my opinion, that by the way seems to be shared by more than a few here, that for years everyone has seen the “Pink Elephant in the room” and silently begrudged it.  It’s a shame, but this awakening has been a long time coming.  People can only take so much of the holier than thou, I see everything NV-related way before anyone else does, we are working on “secret squirrel” stuff that we can’t talk about but still want to brag about online, my buddies are all Tier 1 tip of the spear guys, no other vendor knows anything and they shouldn’t be able to try and earn a living here (despite also being paid vendors of ARFCOM), etc.

In any organization, the attitude and behavior starts at the top and I think we all know this to be the case in this situation.  As mentioned above, I’m sure some of the associates are good guys but we do get judged by the company we keep.  And judging from the decreased visibility of certain people around here I’m sure this turn of events has their attention.  Robert, good on you for standing up for yourself and also attempting to provide an alternative source of information to the members of this forum.  If ALL vendors would realize they could all contribute to, and benefit from, the experience here maybe things would be a little different.  I’ve spoken with you before, along with at least one other paid vendor here, and the difference has been refreshing.  I know that I will never spend another dime with the vendor we all speak of, and in fact they just missed out on my recent thermal purchase.  I just wonder how many people ventured into this sub forum looking to join the NV community and were turned off by the grandstanding and eliteism displayed by the subject of these discussions.

Couldn’t have said it better my self.

Thank you all for the kind words, it is MUCH appreciated!- Robert

So are all threads in the NV forum by vendors going to be moved to their own sub forum?

So the thread got scuddled from the main page?

Nice guys

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I’m just trying to figure out if this is more forum sanitization/censorship as we’ve seen before.

Nope, unless you go against the grain, I'm still seeing other vendor's posts there. If there ever was any doubt that Night Vision forum's moderator/staff is at the bidding of a certain vendor (as NSFjojo stated) then this is proof. By the way, planning to buy an Echo WP from Robert in the future.

Actually, since the other was moved this seems like it's more fair.

Feels like the “parents” sent everyone to their rooms....
The NV forum is the main/only forum I watch. I even stopped keeping up on the LaRue sub forum. This multiple location stuff is disappointing to me.
I agree Robert conducted himself professionally.

You’ve definitely earned, and deserve the kind words.

Unfortunately, it seems that in spite of your best efforts to put certain claims out to pasture, they simply won’t die...

More nerf-usations

Sure would be nice to resolve this once and for all

I saw that yes, that took what about 47 seconds for that to happen again?!?

Photonis would have nothing but liability if they lied about their product's performance. Hell the guy that emailed me called asking why anyone even worried about the whole OOB deal cause no one really has those capabilities right now. I said "I'm not really sure but the question has come up now multiple times and I'm just trying to find real answers for folks!"

I was put off by Photonis' answer to that question. It reeks of holier than thou elitism,  "civilians aren't allowed to have that stuff so you shouldn't care about the capability."

Well, that stuff is in civilian hands, and it's also in the hands of military and other users that want personal NVGs that will be able to "see" that stuff.

We are members of a forum that prides itself on having equipment that is milspec at minimum and better than milspec in many situations. We want good gear that will work when run hard, to include SHTF scenarios where troops with full power lasers and potential OOB equipment are in the equation and we want to be able to see everything.

Photonis is apparently a European company based in the Netherlands, so they obviously don't get it, or our 2A, the whole point of which is to have equipment as good (or better) than the military.

It would be useful if somebody performed a test to prove this once and for all.  The answers from Photonis are good, but objectively they are biased.

With respect to the low-light claim on Echos, it is clear to me from still picture and video I've seen that the FLAG WP units are superior to the Photonis Echos in low/no light. It's a huge difference. However, I think the photos you posted of the Echos don't do them justice.  The video posted of the Echo "in the woods and not in the California suburbs" looks like shit and makes me want to stay away from them. Then I realized the youtube video is posted only in 240p so that shitty resolution could have a lot to do with it too.  Please consider taking a new video with the max resolution your phone will record in and upload it online with the max resolution and NO COMPRESSION.

I want to see side-by-side comparisons of the Photonis Echo with the Unfilmed/FLAG WP.  Any chance you could show us that, taken on the same night with the same conditions? For those of us who have decided we will go with WP, the green 3P or HP+ tubes are a poor comparison.

I never got the feeling the issue re: OOB was related to some sort of restriction or want of restriction.

What they stated was more along the lines of essentially there isn't really any OOB lasers, etc. commonly out there, so why would anyone even worry about this aspect of it. Like I wrote in one of the last posts-

The Photonis I've met I did not get any liberal or statist vibe from- unlike the "Team Wendy" people that LONG BEFORE the hillary photoshoot, put off the liberal vibe and I skirted dealing with them for years before others came to the "astonishing conclusion" (LOL) that they had a liberal bent.

Your talking to a guy that's been active in the Liberty movement for over 30 years, not some johnny come lately that used (and continues to use) the team hillary thing for marketing purposes and to beat his own chest (which should be thoroughly bruised as much as he attempts it). We don't just pay lip service to those issues nor just use them for marketing....

Obviously if Photonis had some sort of statist agenda and felt that way, then they would have stated "yes we cobble these so civilians can't do such and such." QUITE THE CONTRARY they stated categorically that they DO NOT 'nerf' them or otherwise downgrade the OOB capabilities.

I do agree the pics I took don't do the Photonis justice, but the same can be said for the HP+ tubes as well. A lot is lost to the camera.

@ will-1    did some comparison pics and videos of multiple WP units. Maybe we can get him to chime in here with that for you.

Forgive me if this has been mentioned, but do these units degrade with use at the same rate as l3/Harris gen3 stuff?

Never seen any hard data to suggest the Photonis 2nd gen (all their tubes) tubes (Echo, Intens) degrade faster.

What is the MTTF on the Photonis ECHO tubes?

Also, I'm interested in pricing for a BNVD w/ Photonis Echos in WP. I don't see them on your website. I just see monoculars config'd that way.

No BNVDs with Echo tubes currently or on the horizon.

And honestly for what you would pay for 2nd gen ECHO tubes in a BNVD you could get 3rd Gen green Phosphor High performance grade tubes in them currently on sale for our April DUALS days promotion.

Bump to top for resurfaced questions about Echos and Photonis.

So I've gotten more than a few calls with people asking "do the Echo spec units see IR lasers?" They all tell me they heard it from the same source

So to once again debunk FAKE NEWS and MISINFORMATION-



Yes, that's an Echo spec unit seeing the IR laser from a Dbal-I2 9007 model.

For the couple of people that have asked-

Our Echo plus units all feature NEW tubes not old stock tubes. Our Echo plus units feature Elbit Mil spec standard housings- no off spec housings or oddball components. And our Echo plus PVS14s ship with ALL STANDARD ACCESSORIES, not stripped!

Another good review of Photonis tube units-

Photonis Vyper review