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Posted: 4/18/2024 11:20:39 AM EDT
Over the years, my tastes and desires in firearms tends to go from one type to another.  Many years ago, IPSC competition was my lifestyle.  Have had and built a few race guns.  Then came collecting old military rifles when I couldn't afford the time or costs of IPSC.  Then I got on a big bore handgun craze.  My latest stint has been with the AR platform, SBR's and suppressors, but that is beginning to wane.  I have one more build I intend to do, but after that, it's time for something else.

Since retiring from the military, I now live in an area where long range shooting (1,000 to 2,000 yards) is easily doable and I'm kind of leaning in that direction.  My son recently won a gun in a drawing and taking the value amount, he opted for a Bergara HMR in 6.5 PRC.  We've had it out a couple times and I gotta say, plinking an 8" steel target at 600 yards with the ease of pointing a lazer is...intoxicating.  I want to stretch that out...a lot.  I also want to build (or have built) a nice custom bolt action.  I've always bought lower to mid range firearms and equipment and have never really sunk big dollars into my rifles (aside from some of the ridiculous amounts I paid for IPSC race guns).  

So, my first thought is budget. No, I don't want a $10,000 rifle, I need to stay more along the lines of an entry level long range rifle.  Maybe $3,000-ish (not including optics).  I'm not hunting with it, or competing, it'll be a bench/range toy.  I've been watching and reading, but like everything in the firearms world, there are just so many options.  I'm not even sure at this point which cartridge.  A lot of newer ones are hitting the market, like the 6.5/7/300 PRC, for example.  

So, I guess, first question, which cartridge?  I'd like something that could potentially go 2,000 yards (I've been a reloader for many years and will certainly reload).  

Which action?

Barrel?  I see a lot of the custom actions are based on the 700 Rem.  I'm also familiar with the "remage" barrels, which are appealing as I can mount that barrel at home pretty easily.

Either way, I'm totally open to suggestions for a decent long range shooter.

Link Posted: 4/18/2024 12:19:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Boisestatefan] [#1]
Goal is 2000 yards?
338 Lapua is the easy button. No question.
Downside to the 338 is price. You can get into a Savage or Ruger for under 2k, but....  don't get me wrong, I'm not a Savage hater, I know guys that shoot 338LM savages and they shoot great.  
I've just moved away from them. Personal reasons. Also, price per round is $6.50 and up for good ammo.  Lesser ammo is in the $5 range. . Reloading? Still in the $3 range.

A mile is doable with something like a 300prc, but knowing your data is crucial.  2k? Haven't tried that with mine yet.  I'm still getting 1200 and a mile dialed in better.

I'll be headed out to the range in a minute to talk to some guys that were going to try 1 mile with their 6.5 creedmoor this morning. These guys are very good shooters, two are instructors, the others do it for a living. We'll see, I'm skeptical about their success.

So with all that being said, I would take a hard look at the Seekins PH2 in 300prc. Terrific rifle, great people that stand fully behind their work. If you're close to a Scheels, go check them out.

Some people freak out about the 1-10 twist on their barrels, but that twist will still shoot the 225gr hornady ammo a very long way.

Good luck!
Link Posted: 4/18/2024 12:42:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: chrismartin] [#2]
It's very easy to build your own with a ton of actions out there.
You'll have to pick your cartridge first though, as that will dictate if you need a short action or long action receiver.
Remage and Savage barrel nut options are out there, but most people prefer shouldered pre-fit barrels for greater accuracy potential and more solid lock up to the action.

Short action will be a bit cheaper and have more options for stocks/chassis, Magazines, etc.

If you pick a popular action (Zermatt/Big Horn Arms, for example), a bunch of barrel makers sell pre-chambered shouldered "Pre-Fit" barrels (like the Remage, but no barrel nut) so installing them, replacing them, etc. is super easy. You just need a barrel vise and action wrench. Just vise up the barrel, screw on the action and torque down with the action wrench. With barrel nut options, you also need go/no-go gauges to set chamber depth and check.

Being able to replace the barrel easily can be more important that you might think too. A lot of these cartridges can be barrel burners.

For actions, I like Zermatt and American Rifle Co. (ARC) due to the controlled round feed options. American Rifle also has some neat and innovative technology, but it's not as popular, so not as many off-the-shelf shouldered barrel options (they do take Savage barrel nut barrels, however. There are a ton of great actions out there now though. All for right around $1K.

Check out the Zermat TL3 and Origin (less expensive option) and the ARC Coup De Grâce. If I were buying today, it'd be the Coup De Grâce, though it does have fewer barrel options (off-the-shelf). The ARC Archimedes has more barrel options (Compatible with Savage small shank barrels like the Origin and such), but not quite as leading edge as the CDG.

Also, ARC makes some great scope mounts and rings. I won't use anything else at this point. Super easy to setup.

You can also get an idea of what other people are using here:
https://precisionrifleblog.com/2024/04/05/best-custom-rifle-action-what-the-pros-use/

Keep in mind, this is for PRS "gaming", so it's more targeted to that than just ELR, a lot of shooters are sponsored, manufactures may give more product away for "free" to shooters for visibility, prizes, etc.
However, you'll see a good list of the actions, chassis, etc. that are out there.
Lots of other articles on that site as well about cartridges, pre-fit barrels, etc.

Chris
Link Posted: 4/18/2024 7:32:07 PM EDT
[#3]
You need to decide on cartridge first, then the rest..I spent about 6 grand on mine as pictured below with scope/mnt/chassis/bipod/trigger/mags/barrel/brake..I did a defiance tenacity LA(takes pre-fit barrels), Bartlein barrel, MPA BA chassis, Trigger Tech trigger, bastard brake, Atlas PRS bipod, accurate mag 3.850" CIP mags MPA 34mm mount, razor 4.5-27-56 scope.....I chambered mine for 300rum, it easily reaches 2000 yards and further ...mine is for LR/hunting... Disadvantage on the defiance is you have to change the bolt for different case heads..I don't plan on running anything but the .545 magnum bolt face if I ever did change cartridge so didn't matter to me, there is a pile of cartridges that use the magnum bolt face so its an easy choice to make for me...Defiance no longer sells a tenacity action, it has become the RENEGADE now, it went from 990.00 to 1350 nowadays, you can also go to the classic which is still 990.00 and is identical except the recoil lug is pinned instead of intergral like the renegade/tenacity...Not sure that matters..But it is an easy way to save several hundred dollars...I change my own barrels, I have nothing but a barrel vice, an action wrench and a set of go/no go gauges, very simple to do and takes about 5 minutes to do it.... My stateside smith builds the barrels, I just order a barrel blank and have it shipped direct to him, he machines it and sends it to me... simple, fast, easy, and easy....Performance wise..I currently load the 230 grain Bergen hybrid tactical bullet @ 3220fps/5300ft.pd. energy in the 300rum case....Average barrel life is 1600rds for the Bartlein medium palma 30" 1:9 twist 5R barrel blanks...


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Link Posted: 4/19/2024 12:03:43 AM EDT
[#4]
I am sort of in the same boat. Trying to figure out my next step in the long range addiction. I am looking at it from the point of what bullet I want to shoot and then backing into the rifle. Weighing all the pluses and minuses of each cartridge that will handle the bullets I want to shoot. I have it narrowed down to a couple calibers and I am now just putting the funds together. Once I have my budget, and funding, I’ll choose the caliber and the build.

Good luck!
Link Posted: 4/19/2024 1:08:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: EDL] [#5]
2,000 isn't a must, I threw that out because the guys at my LGS are also farmers and one of the guys has a range out to 2,000 and has invited me to come out and shoot whenever I want.  They're a group that likes 7 SAUM, but I think that cartridge is getting hard to find (and brass as well).  338 Lapua, agree, very cool and will reach out, but probably a little bit more than I want to go.  I've shot 338 before and it kicks pretty hard...or at least harder than I want.  I'll be 60 in June, so the old body isn't as tolerant in that respect like it used to be.  

I've never fired 300 RUM, but looking at the ballistics, it should be a tad less in the recoil department and probably at the upper limit of what I'd want to do.  Maybe backing that 2,000 yards back some and going a bit lighter would be a better choice.  Maybe a mile would be a more realistic distance at the top end.  

I've looked at the Defiance actions as they always seem to show up as a choice in the various articles and videos I've watched.  I'm not familiar with the shouldered, ready to install barrels, and the idea of perhaps changing barrels/bolts and calibers on the same rifle does have appeal.  I'll definitely research this more.

I'm partial to the MDT chassis that I've looked at and they seem to get good ratings.  I figure I can save a little there as I don't have to get the most expensive one, I'd rather put the money into a good action and barrel.  A chassis can always be traded out later on if I choose to.  Right now I'm partial to the MDT LSS-XL Gen 2, maybe the ESS at the top end of my price range for chassis.

Optics will be another significant cost, but I'm not including that as I have a lot to look at there and I expect to spend a lot.  I definitely don't want to skimp on the glass for this one.  

Trigger tech trigger, yep, already on the list.  I have one in my Rem 700 22-250 and absolutely love it.

For bipod I'm looking at the Accu-Tac FC-4.

Anyway, getting long winded, but that's where I'm at right now.  I know I said I don't want a $10,000 rifle, but what I meant there is the rifle itself.  I already know optics and other parts are going to more than double the total outlay, already figured that into the equation.  Just trying to see what to buy/build and see if it's doable for my budget.

I will say, that's a pretty darn nice looking rifle and at $6,000 for everything, I'm liking it a lot, just maybe a different cartridge/range expectation.  

Thanks to everyone for the input, you've given me a lot to research and think about.
Link Posted: 4/19/2024 11:20:25 AM EDT
[#6]
If you run a brake recoil won’t be an issue. Today’s brakes work really well. But the cost is muzzle blast. But the 338 Norma I shoot occasionally is very comfortable to shoot. I am planning on running a can on my next build.

Good glass makes the whole shooting experience better. The first time I shot through a Nightforce Atacr I was sold. The first time I let my shooting partners shoot through mine, they both came back with them on their rifles. Great glass but $$$.
Link Posted: 4/19/2024 1:47:06 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SpeyRod:
If you run a brake recoil won’t be an issue. Today’s brakes work really well. But the cost is muzzle blast. But the 338 Norma I shoot occasionally is very comfortable to shoot. I am planning on running a can on my next build.

Good glass makes the whole shooting experience better. The first time I shot through a Nightforce Atacr I was sold. The first time I let my shooting partners shoot through mine, they both came back with them on their rifles. Great glass but $$$.
View Quote

Very true, recoil is not an issue, most of these rifles will be pretty heavy unless you are purposely building it light..figure anywhere from 10 to 20 pounds, or more..mine as pictured is just over 16 pounds....But yeah recoil is not huge..I've put 120 pound first time shooting past 100 yards  women on mine and they had zero issues getting first round hits at 1500 yards or further....My adult daughter who has never shot anything worse than her AR-15 had zero issues shooting my big rifle at the range...and she was worried stiff it was going to hurt to shoot...it surprised her how easy it was....
Link Posted: 4/19/2024 3:03:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SpeyRod] [#8]
OP, for point of reference, I am 62 and have had 3 major spine surgeries and lost the use of my left shoulder, hopefully temporarily. I have broken my back twice and suffered multiple spine compressions. I can’t shoot prone anymore due to all of the above.

Don’t worry about recoil. It is easily mitigated and you will be able to shoot comfortably.

Good luck.
Link Posted: 4/19/2024 3:17:55 PM EDT
[#9]
Hmmm.  I guess the brakes today are a bit better than they used to be.  It's been quite a few years since I shot that 338 (only 3 shots).  Spending some time today just looking at cartridges, available bullets, the BC's of said bullets, and load data to see velocities, then plugging data into a ballistics calculator.  Just playing with the numbers to see the differences and then looking at laod data to see what it takes to get them there.

One combo I found interesting is the 6.5 PRC.  Since my son has his Bergara in that cartridge, it seems the 150 grain Sierra Matchking has an incredible BC (highest for the 6.5 projectiles).  Based on load data I can find for the 150 in the 6.5 PRC and putting the data into a ballistics calculator, accounting for my local elevation and matching average summer temps and humidity to what I'll see, that bullet/cartridge is good out to about 2075 yards while still supersonic.  Back that up a little (to ensure it's not actually entering transonic speed ranges), that combo would be doable out to 2,000, but doesn't leave much margin.  Maybe something we can play with in his rifle.  

Another that catches my eye is the 7mm PRC with the 190 grain A-tip (G7 BC of .422!).  Based on load data for a 24" barrel, they publish velocities of 2850-2900 FPS.  Ballistics calculator says that's supersonic to 2200 yards.

Interesting.  Still digging through data.  Have seen some very interesting wildcats, but not sure I want to go into that realm.
Link Posted: 4/20/2024 12:05:40 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By EDL:
Hmmm.  I guess the brakes today are a bit better than they used to be.  It's been quite a few years since I shot that 338 (only 3 shots).  Spending some time today just looking at cartridges, available bullets, the BC's of said bullets, and load data to see velocities, then plugging data into a ballistics calculator.  Just playing with the numbers to see the differences and then looking at laod data to see what it takes to get them there.

One combo I found interesting is the 6.5 PRC.  Since my son has his Bergara in that cartridge, it seems the 150 grain Sierra Matchking has an incredible BC (highest for the 6.5 projectiles).  Based on load data I can find for the 150 in the 6.5 PRC and putting the data into a ballistics calculator, accounting for my local elevation and matching average summer temps and humidity to what I'll see, that bullet/cartridge is good out to about 2075 yards while still supersonic.  Back that up a little (to ensure it's not actually entering transonic speed ranges), that combo would be doable out to 2,000, but doesn't leave much margin.  Maybe something we can play with in his rifle.  

Another that catches my eye is the 7mm PRC with the 190 grain A-tip (G7 BC of .422!).  Based on load data for a 24" barrel, they publish velocities of 2850-2900 FPS.  Ballistics calculator says that's supersonic to 2200 yards.

Interesting.  Still digging through data.  Have seen some very interesting wildcats, but not sure I want to go into that realm.
View Quote


My son also has a PRC and it is a fantastic round. I have often threatened to put it in a chassis and take it out long. He has been shooting it since he was 15 so recoil is not an issue.

One thing I consider when looking at what a bullet can do in any cartridge is where it is running to achieve a certain result. If I can find a cartridge that runs efficiently at 90% with a bullet I prefer that over one running at 100% for the same performance.
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