I need to improve my form. I need to learn good form, practice good form, and bake good form into my muscle memory. I have watched dozens and dozens of videos on YouTube. I'm looking for a handful to adopt as my own to use over time. Videos I can watch before I go to the range and again after I get home from the range to increase my awareness and improve.

My three biggest needs for improvement and consistency are stance, head position, and buttstock placement. This post is concerned with stance.

I'm already working on trigger control with a Strikeman Pro dry-fire system and my physical training for a 10k Obstacle Course Race in September is a big help in my stability, balance, steadiness, and endurance. Future plans include formal tactical training, solo and group, and possibly competition. Becoming a competent tactical shooter at my age (67) is challenging. Selecting firearms and ammunition are the easy parts.

This is my tentative candidate video for stance. It explains the why, shows why, and is easy for me to follow. But it is YouTube and I don't have the experience to evaluate the quality of the content. I am a training expert, though, and am able to evaluate the learning effectiveness.

If you would, please, take a look and let me know if you see anything in the video that isn't rock-solid as far as a model for tactical shooting form?

Also, even though I've looked at a lot of videos on stance, if there's a video that stands out in your mind as top-tier or best-in-class, please feel free to post it. I'd love to watch it.

Please bear I mind that I'm looking to choose one video to use repeatedly, as my model not just for stance but also for learning how to use the stance and to check myself that I'm using it properly. Not that I won't watch others but for consistency, I want to have one that is central to my training.

When it comes to the defense of my family and property; things like self-delusion, ego, rationalization, wishful thinking, and so on, have no place. Please feel free to give it to me straight. I spent a lot of my life in military aviation and have a strong appreciation for the benefit of brutal truth.

I like Colion Noir but I didn't even watch the video.
When shooting a rifle and paying attention to stance just pretend you were going to be in a fist fight and stand like that.
Knees slightly bent with weight on the balls of your feet.
Slight lean forward and pull the gun in hard so it doesn't jump around.
You don't need to slouch or do anything weird with your shoulders just pull the gun in nice and tight.
That's what I do.
I'm no professional by any means but I can shoot.

Forgot to add.
Feet are about shoulder width apart and left foot slightly forward.

Thank you! I'm on it.

Thats really it, be in a fighting stance. As long as you arent standing in a seriously goofy manner that is off balance, I would say stance is about the least important thing to worry about as far as fighting guns go.

I'd recommend you watch some videos on YouTube by Maxamundi. He breaks stance down extremely well, using your hits to dictate adjustments.

Haven’t watch Colion’s. My take is it’s gotta be natural and repeatable. If you have to think about my foot here while my arm there and my head this way, you’re never gonna get it the same way twice. Get a basic athletic stance that feels natural and get it repeatable.

I think Jerry says something similar:


Now, if you’re into body armor and plates and stuff, maybe you square up more, but I don’t.

Okay, brutal truth as explained to me by a soldier:

Like others have said, simple fighting stance works for recreational and comp shooting, just brace yourself good, common sense.

Back a few years ago on the first spring day that the local range opened, I called up a buddy of mine, young guy, former Marine that served a couple tours in the GWOT, came back and then re-upped in the Army infantry and did a couple more tours. I had built myself 4 shiny new AR's over the winter and needed to sight them in and evaluate how I did and so I invited him to come along and help me lay waste to some metal targets and he happily agreed.

So we sighted them in on the bench, then stood up to do offhand shooting. He immediately squared himself up straight to the target area, took a very wide stance, then squatted super low, almost exactly like you'd do a squat lift in the gym, wayyyy low. He rotated only his upper torso as he swept several targets, he was fast as shit and hit what he aimed at every single time.

When he got done, I asked him about that stance, he smiled and said "Ever been on a range where the targets shoot back? If you can't find cover and you can't get prone because you might have to run, you get as low as possible without taking a knee, do your business fast, then haul ass".

Big difference in comp/rec shooting and actual combat shooting. I hope I never have to find out for myself.

If you're into martial arts at all (and you are, because shooting is a martial art) there's an ancient kata called Sanchin built around a stance which is also called Sanchin. The stance gives you a very stable yet maneuverable base. The kata improves your strength, balance, body awareness, posture and ability to absorb strikes (or recoil, in our case).

The stance is very similar to what both Colion and Jerry teach in the videos above, which shows that there is nothing new under the sun. But it's also much more nuanced. Learning the kata that goes with it will improve a lot more of your life than just your shooting.

I use it for everything from trap to archery. I think it would benefit anyone's shooting to find a Uechi-Ryū dojo or serious student and learn it.


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I'm not at all oblivious to what you're talking about. I never expressed any intention to go into a gunfight while standing tall in a formal stance. I need to learn to crawl and walk before I can run, though. All in good time.

That having been said, thank you!  Sincerely.

Thanks for the feedback. I agree but I've got to get there to be able to do it. To me, the way to make it natural and repeatable is by starting out with a conscious thought process so that I'm developing repeatable muscle memory through repetition of the correct form. Paying attention to my stance through many repetitions is, I believe, the best way to get to the point where I don't have to think about it.

It's like my workouts. Every month, or even less sometimes, I change my workouts in their entirety. The first couple of new workouts, I obsess over form. Once I have it down, I don't have to think about form nearly as much.

I put 250 rounds down-range today, putting into action everything I've learned. Between the video I linked above and two others, I derived this:

Nose over front toe.
Front leg flexed.
Rear leg straight.
Bring rifle to eye-line, keep head up.
Off-elbow parallel to ground.

My goal is to do all of it every time I take up a standing shooting stance, without having to think about any of it. Practice > muscle memory > automatic.

In addition, I worked a fair bit on stock placement in the shoulder at home in my little dry-fire range in the basement. I needed that to be able to sight while keeping my head up. I'm kind of surprised at where my best stock placement position is but it works. Between my legs and stock position, I have never felt as comfortable with my firing stance as I did today. I didn't feel like I had to struggle to get good sight alignment. My accuracy and speed both improved. By the end of the range session, I wasn't having to consciously think about my leg position to achieve the stance I wanted and it was getting much easier to get the stock in the proper place the first time. It still took a lot of conscious thought to get my off-side elbow up, though. A couple more range sessions and I'm feeling pretty confident I'll be able to get into shooting position without having to think about it.

I got more comfortable with a two-point sling today, too. I still need a ton of work to be able to get it on quickly, though.

Building blocks. It's all about building blocks. Once some are in place, others can be built on them. I should have done this a long time ago.

Thanks! I work out 7 to 10 hours a week and do a lot of hip work. Abductors, adductors, opener walking, IT band stretches and exercises. Core too. I also do yoga for flexibility and that tension release you mentioned. I struggle with remembering to do it when I most need it, though. I started competing in obstacle course races last year so I'm all about functional strength, mobility, endurance, stability, and balance. I'm expecting my body to be physically ready for the challenges when my shooting is developed enough for me to advance my training into different stances, movement, cover, multiple targets, and so on.

My toes were lifting during rapid fire prior to last week, which is part of what set me off on my search for a good fundamental stance. I knew that couldn't be right. That hasn't happened since I started using this stance, though. I haven't been trying to keep my weight forward though I have been keeping my off-side leg forward. I've been trying to avoid leaning forward over my lead foot, though. As I understand it, the goal of having the one leg to the rear and straight, is to create a triangle between the two feet and the recoil pivot point that is resisted by the structural integrity of the triangle, as opposed to leaning forward to use the weight of the body to resist recoil. With the front leg flexed and the rear leg straight, my torso is directly above the center-point between my feet. I don't feel at all unbalanced in this stance and I feel the same weight on each foot.

My hips are at about a 30 degree angle from where they'd be if my feet were aligned left-to-right. From the tip of my right foot to the heel of my left foot is about 12". I can drop my eye-line by about 24 inches from this stance by squatting. Tell me how you'd adjust my stance and I'll be happy to give it a try next week.

Thanks again!

Simple as that.  Fighting stance.  I'd say be as squared off as possible if wearing armor.

See what Pat McNamara says about stance.  Don't overthink it, it should be natural, and it will be fluid, depending on terrain, movement, use of cover, etc.

How about this:  film YOURSELF getting into what you now know is a good generalized stance, and watch and practice THAT just before and after shooting.

Good advice, thanks.

It's coming along. More comfortable and natural and easy the more I do it.

Ah yes, establishment of muscle-memory is a beautiful thing.  Very fulfilling when everything seems natural.

I would also emphasize really pulling the gun into the shoulder and locking it down, when doing fast work up close when standing/crouching or shooting around cover.

Was reminded of that last week, was running up drills and doubles on steel @ 25yd, and was getting kind of sloppy....well hell, I was getting lax about locking the gun down.

So shifted gears, focused on THAT, and it was a night and day difference in controllability.

Thank you, Sir! I'm a big fan of muscle memory. I'm a fanatic about form when I work out at the gym even though I'm training for the utter chaos of a 10k obstacle course race. Every level of development of my skills is a foundation for the next level above it once mastered.

There are times when it all works right; I nail the stance quickly, the rifle comes up and sets in the right place the first time, and the sight picture is just there, in the right place. It doesn't happen but when it does, I like it and it motivates me to keep working until I'm doing it easily almost all the time. It's perfect validation to me that it's not just about having an AR, knowing how an AR works, or being able to build one. It's about practical skills that can only be gained through lots and lot and lots of rounds down-range.

As my stance gets more consistent, natural, quick, and easy, I'm finding myself having to work on stock placement, especially now that I'm shooting with a sling all of the time. I'm using a Vickers two-point and the rear sling mount is interfering with my ability to bring the stock all the way up. I'm trying to develop muscle memory of bringing the rifle up to my eye and not moving my head down to the rifle so much. The strap is hanging up when the stock is about 1.5 to 2.0 inches below where I want it, with the lower third of the butt centered on my collarbone. I'm going to watch some more videos on rigging, proper wear, and adjustments to see if I can spot something I'm doing wrong.

I wanted to improve my speed at putting on a two-point sling as part of my stance work. Once I figured out the basic movement, I went to the range with 200 rounds, loaded five per magazine. Every time I changed a magazine, I ejected the empty, took the sling off, set the rifle down, picked it back up again, put the sling on, loaded the mag, and pressed on. After doing that 40 times at the range, I've pretty much got my sling-on, sling-off process down. I still have to think about it but I don't have to start thinking about it until about the third step. Muscle memory.

Regarding the pull into the shoulder, I will do that. Another part of my form I'm working on to develop muscle memory is the combination of a the sling to pull the butt into the shoulder and a strong c-clamp grip on the fore-end pushing forward, for stability, with a modest hand-shake level of pressure on the pistol grip.

I'm working on a checklist for myself for my first tactical training course. I want to be prepared across the board before I start because I know I want to get a fair bit of pro training. I don't want my lack of ability in some area to prevent me from moving from one course to another or from taking full advantage of the courses. So my checklist includes things like fitness, mobility, flexibility, and so on, over and above firearm skills. Coming soon on my focus list: trigger control and malfunctions.

I'm trying to be as real as humanly possible and there's nothing more valuable to me than the advice and counsel from people who know what is and isn't real. Thank you!

What video?

@Cascade-Dude

I gotta say that in my opinion, stance is one of those things where an experienced instructor standing beside you and actually watching what you are doing and helping out is kind of important.  People can pick up some of the basics of some stuff from videos, but nothing beats someone watching you shoot for fixing stance issues.  People just don’t realize what they are doing most of the time, happens all the time where they have an elbow sticking way out, are leaning back on their heels, are forcing their positioning too much, need to move a foot, you name it.  

I teach everything from a very squared off stance to a traditional marksmanship stance, and everything in between.  Plus support side/barriers/etc.  Use what fits for the situation in front of you basically…. Knowing how to shoot in whatever situation happens is important.  Everyone should know how to shoot from anything, even the knocked down on your ass position (requires extra concern when teaching due to shooter distance, angle of the rifle, target positioning, and how high the berm is...)

Traditional rifle stances still have their place- if you have to cover a doorway for half an hour, and absolutely need to be ready, it is the least fatiguing way to go.  Or if you have armor or cover where it makes sense and exposes you the least.  

Squared off stances are ideal for moving, you are ready to go, and if wearing plates are easier to use sometimes.  I am tall and still collapse the stock pretty far in.  I also push the butt more towards the center of the chest than some folks.  Very useful for pushing thru small hallways, clearing rooms, and similar.  For shooting on the move this is pretty much what you should be doing.  

A fighting stance with the strong foot slightly (or more) back is kind of the default for medium distance outdoor standing situations.  Elbows tucked in, not leading or getting shot off when peering around cover.  Weight forward, etc etc.  

Then there are barriers/cover, and sometimes putting your strong foot forward to maximize stability and cover is what you want for quick situations.  Actually pretty easy and good to use once you get used to it.  And if you are switching shoulders and shooting support side, push the support side foot forward.  Switching sides depends a lot on how much time you will be spending on that corner, and how much you want to expose yourself when looking or moving around it.  

Some people might think that you should never switch shoulders, but I got a lesson pretty early on where if I had not been skilled at shooting support side I would have been a lot more exposed.  (And ideas that seem fine in training make things pucker when you are up against a real armed opponent only 10 yards away….)

Anyhow- it might be worth spending some time with someone who has experience teaching and can watch what you are doing.  Practicing something incorrectly can be worse sometimes than not practicing at all.

Thank you for the detailed and helpful post. Wonderful and useful information. One of the RSO's at my club has been giving me some pointers but he has 16 lanes of shooters to manage so he can only help me so much. I try to go in early when there aren't many shooters; he seems to like helping me. Former USMC rifleman with combat experience. I've been thinking of offering to hire him for an hour to work with me.

As luck would have it, I spent some time with someone just like you described this past weekend. We're getting together again soon. In the meantime, we're discussing drills to do some of the things you mentioned the next time we get together.

I haven't tried any support-side shooting yet but it will be interesting. During my down time due to heart disease, heart attacks, and recovery, my eyesight in my left eye dropped rather suddenly to 20/400. That caused my dominant eye to shift form left to right. As a consequence, since I got started shooting again, and got into ARs for the first time, I've had to learn how to shoot as a righty after 50 years of shooting as a lefty. I'm getting there but it takes time. It still takes some conscience thought on my part to not pick up a rifle with my left-hand on the grip and my right hand forward, for example. So it will be interesting to see how it feels when I switch back to the left side.

If you use any specific drills that would be helpful for me to try so I can put your suggestions into action, I'd love to hear about them. I learned a couple of new drills last weekend that will help me. I'm in the process of figuring out some target stands to build and looking at some steel targets as well. I'd also like to build a portable barricade or two I could take out in the woods in the back of my truck for drilling from cover.

I know I haven't even begun to scratch the surface and have a lot to learn. Thanks for the help.