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Originally Posted By K5FAL: Cars could have been made almost perfect with turbo-Diesels (40+mpg and plenty of power) but then these leftists and their scumbag “expert class” had to come along and ruin everything. View Quote Every time I visit my dad in Spain I fall in love again with the little i4 diesels, and wonder what could have been. He told me the EU is after them there, too. |
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“...in the hands of politicians grand designs achieve nothing but new forms of the old misery...”
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If I don't buy a ford EV, they can give me $100,000 and come out $32,000 ahead.
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Member Ranstad's Militia
You ever notice that no one says "don't judge me" when they've done something positive? - gearjammer351 Do it. GD needs entertainment. Your misery will amuse us. - Cypselus |
Originally Posted By stgdz: The model 3 and x's are piling up at the Tesla dealer that I pass on the way home. And yes Tesla has dealers. View Quote If you buy one you've got to pick it up and do the paperwork somewhere. They'll ship to your house, but it's easier to go to the local location. |
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“...in the hands of politicians grand designs achieve nothing but new forms of the old misery...”
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Originally Posted By FlashMan-7k: Several states have put preemptive bans on the sale of new ICE engined vehicles circa 2030. The green religionists are painting them into a corner and will sic their inquisitors onto them if they don't comply with the lies. View Quote Insert soup Nazi meme. No cars for you. Do not sell cars to those states...period. Just stop making EVs and let Tesla have that market. ICE vehicles for everyone else. |
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lol...
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The threat is real...
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Originally Posted By Ef4life: So it’s now an epa superfund site? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Ef4life: Originally Posted By WhiskersTheCat: The record for most fires the instructor saw was 5. The EV caught fire five times. They ended up having to dig a pit at the tow yard and permanently submerge it in water. So it’s now an epa superfund site? I think the biggest takeaway here is that no one knows how to deal with these EVs yet. No one. It was forced on us too quick. |
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Originally Posted By p3590:
You cannot feed the Virginians an entire case of malort at once. A pint to sip in the parking garage outside the VA Supreme Court is safe. With a case, they're going to pull up the 1609 map |
Originally Posted By Esterhase: Every time I visit my dad in Spain I fall in love again with the little i4 diesels, and wonder what could have been. He told me the EU is after them there, too. View Quote The last time I was in Europe, in 2019, we rented a Peugeot compact that had little 4 cylinder turbo-diesel mated to a 5 speed manual. That thing got stupid good fuel economy, I want to say 50-60 mpg? It was fun as hell to drive too. Definitely the way. |
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"According to Argonne National Laboratory, it takes 100 pounds of battery in an EV to go a distance achieved by only one pound of gasoline in an ICE vehicle"
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They can’t expect the small homosexual population to carry that level of production.
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Originally Posted By _DR: The last time I was in Europe, in 2019, we rented a Peugeot compact that had little 4 cylinder turbo-diesel mated to a 5 speed manual. That thing got stupid good fuel economy, I want to say 50-60 mpg? It was fun as hell to drive too. Definitely the way. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By _DR: Originally Posted By Esterhase: Every time I visit my dad in Spain I fall in love again with the little i4 diesels, and wonder what could have been. He told me the EU is after them there, too. The last time I was in Europe, in 2019, we rented a Peugeot compact that had little 4 cylinder turbo-diesel mated to a 5 speed manual. That thing got stupid good fuel economy, I want to say 50-60 mpg? It was fun as hell to drive too. Definitely the way. HERE I COME: THE GOVERNMENT Sorry that is too easy and works well and makes people happy u will need to buy our gay certified wind powered car |
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Originally Posted By p3590:
You cannot feed the Virginians an entire case of malort at once. A pint to sip in the parking garage outside the VA Supreme Court is safe. With a case, they're going to pull up the 1609 map |
Originally Posted By HourOfAngle: My career supports the petro chemical industry. In the winning twist of fate companies started paying outrageous amounnts of money aquiring mineral rights that had already produced in oil and gas for lithium. Nice paycheck. That mini boom did not last long last year and is now gone. Power plant work has picked up a little. I am still in the camp that a number of Tesla stock sales were people that wanted to hep fund Musk on his space deals. View Quote Plus it's reported that the big investment funds and banks started un-funding the petro industries, quite intentionally. @Foxtro08 |
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Originally Posted By Esterhase: Every time I visit my dad in Spain I fall in love again with the little i4 diesels, and wonder what could have been. He told me the EU is after them there, too. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Esterhase: Originally Posted By K5FAL: Cars could have been made almost perfect with turbo-Diesels (40+mpg and plenty of power) but then these leftists and their scumbag “expert class” had to come along and ruin everything. Every time I visit my dad in Spain I fall in love again with the little i4 diesels, and wonder what could have been. He told me the EU is after them there, too. The skyactiv engines show what a true lean burn can do too. Our regulatory thugocracies have deemed it to be not so, though. |
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Originally Posted By AmericanPeople: Insert soup Nazi meme. No cars for you. Do not sell cars to those states...period. Just stop making EVs and let Tesla have that market. ICE vehicles for everyone else. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By AmericanPeople: Originally Posted By FlashMan-7k: Several states have put preemptive bans on the sale of new ICE engined vehicles circa 2030. The green religionists are painting them into a corner and will sic their inquisitors onto them if they don't comply with the lies. Insert soup Nazi meme. No cars for you. Do not sell cars to those states...period. Just stop making EVs and let Tesla have that market. ICE vehicles for everyone else. We don't know if tesla would exist without the government stealing money from others to float them. Also, there aren't enough minerals out there to mine in order to replace all the vehicles using petroleum based powerplants. Much less the entire electrical grid. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Simon+Michaux |
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If the glove don't Fitz, you must acquits.
GA, USA
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Originally Posted By grey50beast: In this thread we find who understands Capex and who's just out here yeetin' claims with no context. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By grey50beast: Originally Posted By Grendel-OK: Didn't Tesla loose a bunch of money on each car they sold when they first started selling car also? In this thread we find who understands Capex and who's just out here yeetin' claims with no context. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/capitalexpenditure.asp Capital expenditures (CapEx) are funds used by a company to acquire, upgrade, and maintain physical assets such as property, plants, buildings, technology, or equipment. CapEx is often used to undertake new projects or investments by a company. Making capital expenditures on fixed assets can include repairing a roof (if the useful life of the roof is extended), purchasing a piece of equipment, or building a new factory. This type of financial outlay is made by companies to increase the scope of their operations or add some future economic benefit to the operation. Ok ... so what are you getting at? |
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Are these financial loses including the massive taxpayer funded subsidies given to the mfg by the virtue signalling Congress Cu#+s?
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1995 M1025A2 5SFG GMV ODA525 "Hammerhead"
1995 M1025A2 3SFG GMV ODA391 "Roughnecks" 1984 Chenowth M1040 Fast Attack Vehicle 061 " Horney Toad" |
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Rob
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Big number
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Originally Posted By Singlestack_Wonder: With the U.S. government giving federal subsidies to the auto makers to build ev's (otherwise they wouldn't build all electric vehicles), it's the American tax payer losing with each vehicle sold. View Quote |
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If you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.
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Pushed to sell coal powered vehicles in 2024...lol.
If only their college educated from business school resisted but nope. Would've have been better off hiring garbage men to run their marketing. Explain why this is wrong... |
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Tesla is the only company that profits from electric vehicles because manufacturing is designed around it and they charge what it takes to make a profit.
Every other manufacturer only makes them to lower their fleet mileage for government bullshit . The upcharge every other vehicle to make up the loss. |
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¯\_(?)_/¯
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If the glove don't Fitz, you must acquits.
GA, USA
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Originally Posted By FlashMan-7k: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/capitalexpenditure.asp Capital expenditures (CapEx) are funds used by a company to acquire, upgrade, and maintain physical assets such as property, plants, buildings, technology, or equipment. CapEx is often used to undertake new projects or investments by a company. Making capital expenditures on fixed assets can include repairing a roof (if the useful life of the roof is extended), purchasing a piece of equipment, or building a new factory. This type of financial outlay is made by companies to increase the scope of their operations or add some future economic benefit to the operation. Ok ... so what are you getting at? View Quote I'm getting at the fact that developing products costs money. Tooling up to build new vehicles costs money. They won't return their investment on EVs for a hot minute. Remember all the "Tesla bankruptcy looming" threads when they lost money for every car? Only once the tooling is paid down and the majority of the one time costs, R&D, etc are taken care of will a new product see profitability. Whether it will actually continue to be viable as a business model for Ford remains to be seen. |
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Mine has been good thus far.
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Ford used to get freaked out when some small economy cars had very little markup like $600. If those cars were lemons and had a lot of recalls or warranty work they could lose money on them.
But not $134,000 |
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There is a joke. An Engineer, a Lawyer, and an accountant discuss what 2+2 equals. The Engineer started doing equations to prove what 2+2 equaled. The Lawyer said he would need to check case law and statutory law. The Accountant asked - what do you want it to equal?
There are many ways to calculate the cost per unit. A journalist can use any, and will often use the one best for their article. Do you want to amortize fixed cost - over what period or how many units? Do you want to add in depreciation for equipment being used, but not purchased specifically for this project (like the factory)? Are you looking at the marginal cost per unit? I can only assume that R&D cost was still being spent last year. Ford might make a production run for 1/2 a decade or more, and even after that run - they still get some value out of that R&D as the next vehicle is not 100% new. ---- Sure they lost a shit ton of money - but the marginal cost per vehicle was probably either a small profit or close to break even. If they can get their shit out of their ass and not have to continue to dump money into R&D on the existing models - They might be able to make a profit and eventually cut some of last years losses. That said, most of last years R&D was probably for future models anyway. --- One problem virtually every legacy company has is legacy R&D. They wanted to leverage that to get out of the gate quickly. Tesla had a blank slate, so they designed from the ground up to cut marginal cost for vehicles (they were going to spend R&D anyway). While Tesla is still doing R&D I am sure - their R&D is far more controlled at this point. Plus a good part of that R&D is still to cut cost per unit - not how to figure out how to build a working EV anymore. Who really knows what their current R&D costs are for future models - but the best guess right now is Model 2, which will have the lowest marginal cost of any vehicle Tesla has ever produced. I am pretty sure it is safe to say Tesla has the lowest production cost for an EV in the industry (especially for comparative models - you can not really compare an EV truck to a EV subcompact car). They have the lowest battery cost /kwh in the industry as well (because that is something they invested heavily in getting). At the moment, they probably have the best batteries, but I suspect a decent amount of money is being spent to make sure they don't loose that lead either. |
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Good.
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Originally Posted By Grendel-OK: Didn't Tesla loose a bunch of money on each car they sold when they first started selling car also? View Quote Yes, however it will be much harder for Ford to adjust their manufacturing to reign in costs. Tesla is designed around vertical integration and manically focused on margins. Ford is still operating like a traditional car company and will have to purchase many of the EV components from other companies which will make it difficult to have a profit margin and sell at a competitive price. Tesla and the Chinese companies are likely the only two capable of doing that for the near future. |
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This is what Ford was saying about it in July of 2023.
Ford's targeting EV production of 600,000 vehicles this year. But while it plows $50 billion into the new programs, it's expecting to lose at least $3 billion in the process and likely won't turn a profit on the segment for three years. In fact, it's losing about $58,000 on each EV it sells (not abnormal for the first few years of a launch.) Hefty rebates and steep price cuts to keep up with Tesla's price war aren't helping profitability, either. At the same time, it required dealers to spend anywhere from $500,000 to over $1 million to become "EV certified" to sell the expensive and usually unprofitable vehicles. View Quote source So their actual losses per vehicle exceeded these estimates, and have more than doubled in less than a year. Think about where we are, where this leads, and remember what was said by those now behind the scenes. Attached File |
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So,....... they're gonna keep making them? Brilliant!
Maybe Uncle Sammy will allow them to stay in business. |
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Originally Posted By MilHouse-556: How can such a large company be that out of touch with what the market demands for a product they are selling? Especially such a high dollar item. View Quote Remember, gov't is forcing companies to do this or they will get shut down by the heavy hand of gov't regulations. |
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The stupid government is buying Ferd EVs for Border Patrol. Along with millions of dollars worth of solar chargers to set up in remote areas. Any bets on how soon the equipment shits the bed in 110 degree summers?
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Have no fear....
.Gov bailout will be incoming. |
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"Because free men will never consent to give up the means of defending their liberties."
---- XBONE: AJ in JAX |
We handle a Tesla fleet where I work. Things need brakes and tires like every 20,000km due to added weight of the batteries. So environmentally friendly lol.
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BeatsofftoEVs?
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RIP Jeff Reed. Tennessee Squire, Ga. Carry member, NRA,Non-puking 72 ounce drinker 2 of 6 Norcal call sign, Forgotten.
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RIP Jeff Reed. Tennessee Squire, Ga. Carry member, NRA,Non-puking 72 ounce drinker 2 of 6 Norcal call sign, Forgotten.
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Originally Posted By BangStick1: Remember, gov't is forcing companies to do this or they will get shut down by the heavy hand of gov't regulations. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By BangStick1: Originally Posted By MilHouse-556: How can such a large company be that out of touch with what the market demands for a product they are selling? Especially such a high dollar item. Remember, gov't is forcing companies to do this or they will get shut down by the heavy hand of gov't regulations. Toyota has seem to have found a way. |
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Originally Posted By Kingdead: It's usually because accountants or "business" men are in charge, show me how many companies are still run by engineering? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Kingdead: Originally Posted By VVinci: Meh. This is what launching a new product line costs in the industry. This is also why big companies are incredibly bad at innovation - because the bets they have to place to get a return are epic in size, and if the bets go bad, well..... It's usually because accountants or "business" men are in charge, show me how many companies are still run by engineering? A successful business cannot be run by engineers for the long term, but a successful business cannot be run without them either…. It’s not one extreme or another, it’s all about the balance |
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Originally Posted By callgood: Tesla may "loose" more when the vehicles Hertz is selling hit the market. Hertz Car Sales View Quote They should tighten that shit up! |
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Now she's making $15 an hour as a 'tard wrangler with a degree in women's studies... - tommytrauma
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Originally Posted By Smash47: Pushed to sell coal powered vehicles in 2024...lol. If only their college educated from business school resisted but nope. Would've have been better off hiring garbage men to run their marketing. Explain why this is wrong... View Quote Look at the state-level regs already quoted. These states combined represent a large enough percentage of the total US market as to make selling EVs a de facto federal mandate. Meanwhile, DOJ, who should be suing under the interstate commerce clause, is spending all its time rounding up J6 ruffians and coordinating Trump's kangaroo courts. |
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I know I'll never go home.
So set fire to your ships, and past regrets, and be free. |
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Originally Posted By mban2: A successful business cannot be run by engineers for the long term, but a successful business cannot be run without them either…. It’s not one extreme or another, it’s all about the balance View Quote Alfred Sloan disagreed with you, and he pretty much has scoreboard over every non-technical CEO who's ever lived. |
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Originally Posted By VVinci: Alfred Sloan disagreed with you, and he pretty much has scoreboard over every non-technical CEO who's ever lived. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By VVinci: Originally Posted By mban2: A successful business cannot be run by engineers for the long term, but a successful business cannot be run without them either…. It’s not one extreme or another, it’s all about the balance Alfred Sloan disagreed with you, and he pretty much has scoreboard over every non-technical CEO who's ever lived. Engineers with business acumen or business men with engineering understanding are 1) very rare and 2) incredibly valuable. The Jack Welch and Alfred Sloans of the world aren’t exactly common place. If you took the majority of lead engineer and stuck them with strategy, process, vision, financial decisions they typically won’t succeed. But neither will a guy who doesn’t understand how or why the things their company produces are able to be produced and the cost structures and limitations of that production. For any large company they need a balance of financial, vision, strategic, and engineering experiences to succeed. Currently ford does not have the balance. |
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I’m torn.
On the one hand, fuck ford, fuck EV’s, and doubly fuck the retards trying to force those rolling bundles of thermite onto us. On the other, I’d rather not see even more of my tax dollars going towards bailing out those fucktards after losing their ass, even after all the subsidizing and tax breaks. |
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