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USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 12:03:58 PM EDT
[#1]
Originally Posted By Biggus_Dickus: At least most of them, in my recent experience. Own a duplex. A double with family living in both halves. Since we've lived here, I've had the HVAC systems replaced on both sides. The oldest one is 14 years. That one quit running. Since I've been baby sitting my grandson and taking care of my 90 year old mother who broke her hip a couple months ago, I don't have a lot of spare time, so I call the HVAC company we bought from and had install it. Guy comes out, does a few checks and then comes to me. Tells me it's either the blower motor or the ECM and he would replace both for 3300 dollars, but he thought I should just buy a new one (from him of course). Ummm, no. Goodbye. Call a different, larger area company. Long story shortened somewhat, exact same story, except 4800 bucks and "it's 14 years old. You should just buy a new one (from us of course). Ummm, no. Goodbye. Both made it sound like 14 years was ancient. When questioned on this, the second guy claimed they needed replaced every 10 to 15 years.  So I take the thing apart, get the part numbers from the motor and controllers. Order the parts on line and when they arrived, installed them and it starts right up and runs perfect. For less than 2 hours work and about $325, I fixed it myself. As mentioned, I have a lot taking up my time, and was willing to pay a reasonable amount to fix my furnace. Had either offered to do it for $1200-$1500, I likely would have had them do it just for convenience. Instead, they went passed that robbery amount (I did mention I fixed it for $335 and less than 2 hours work, right?) and went straight to rape. If you can, fix it yourself. If not, find a trustworthy handyman. The HVAC service companies have no interest in fixing your equipment and will try to sell you new, cause that's where the big payday is. My HVAC guy is in his 80's. When my board went out on my air handler/furnace, the part was discontinued. He told me I could find one online if I wanted, OR he could rig up a relay that would work. The relay wouldn't allow me to turn the fan on without the AC or heat running, but otherwise would work fine. I told him to wire in a relay. That was 10+ years ago. Still works great. He charged me $75 for a service call including the relay. He drives 1/2 hour to my house, and his service charge is always $75 plus freon or parts. I'm gonna be hating life when he finally has to retire. He's the type that will work as long as he's alive, because he likes what he does, but none of us last forever. A good honest mechanic/handyman is worth his/weight in gold |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 12:15:24 PM EDT
[#2]
Part of the problem comes from the top down:
Manufacturers often hold dealers to quotas, and many dealers feel pressure to quote replacements instead of repairs to meet those quotas. Manufacturers want quotas so they can forecast earnings and look good to the investors. Another problem is labor - skilled HVAC techs don't often stay in the residential field. If you can troubleshoot and diagnose issues, you'll probably be noticed and offered a job in commercial/industrial with better pay and benefits. When my idiot step brother who could barely graduate high school is a residential HVAC tech, we've got issues. God bless him for putting himself through trade school and sticking with this as a career, but he'd last about 5 minutes working in a commercial/industrial HVAC setting where troubleshooting is expected and required. Another problem is boomers. I've been in the HVAC industry for 22 years. There's a lot of guys that are hitting retirement age bitching about the young guys coming into the industry. But those same guys hated having to help train, hated having another guy riding shotgun in their van, etc. That attitude is biting them in the ass. Part of our offboarding for 5 of our recent retirees was setting up some training classes to pass on some knowledge to our younger staff & recent hires. Examples of that include correctly sizing expansion tanks and troubleshooting VFDs. Thankfully there's a lot of great people that see the need for education and training. I've visited 3-4 trade schools over the past 6 months and at least regionally, the HVAC and electrical programs are turning out quality students. The instructors are involved, engaged, and bringing in contractors regularly to expose students to what they need to learn. The biggest problem is people themselves. We've gotten so accustomed to disposable products that a large segment of the population doesn't want to take time to question an estimate or bid, none the less actually diagnose and make repairs themselves. The most plumbing I've ever done prior to last week was run some PVC, yet after watching 15 minutes of youtube, I swapped out my leaky failing 40 gallon gas water heater with a new 50 gallon unit on Friday night after work. From the time I shut the gas off on the old unit to lighting the pilot on the new unit was 1 hour 15 minutes, 1 bloody knuckle, and 2 bush lights. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 12:39:58 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Into_the_Void: A guy down the road is part of a father son HVAC/plumbing business. He has my loyalty for life if it's beyond my knowledge and I need help. A few years he came out for what was essentially an emergency call on my heater. After a half hour of fucking with it, it randomly started working without him doing anything. He didn't charge a penny because "I didn't do anything to make it work again.". I tried paying just for him showing up, he refused. It took months for me to figure out it was a pressure switch that was intermittent. Edit - guys in the trades, pay attention. I now recommend him to everyone. Absolutely. I am a firm believer in rewarding good service / good behavior, and punishing bad service / bad behavior. You and the fudge guy have it right. I will aggressively provide the appropriate feedback, and I have a long memory. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 3:07:10 PM EDT
[#4]
Just had a guy come out and trouble shoot an ac unit today, ended up just needing a new capacitor, all in $134 installed including the cost to come out. He did give me a quote if interested for a new 2.5 ton ac unit for around $3,500-4,200 installed depending on which make and model I'd go with. If this helps anyone that might be looking....
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Posted: 5/13/2024 3:31:34 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kachael: Unfortunately you see alot of this either from service companies or auto repair shops. No one wants to troubleshoot anymore, plus they rather upsell you a new unit. Unfortunately these companies are being extremely short sighted by grabbing the big dollars right up front and not gaining the trust of a new or existing customer. You think a person is going to call a company back after they stuck it to them Your mistake here is thinking that the customer is going to figure out they got stuck. 90% of people make the call, the hvac company comes out and fixes whatever problem, customer pays and it's over. The customer NEVER even thinks about it bc the problem is solved. Also mistaken in thinking gaining trust does anything for the company. Again, 90% of customers don't care if you took care of them previously and saved them $1000s of dollars. Whoever google shows first is getting a call and that's it. Maybe 10% of people will ever be back. So if you are doing the job quote what's easiest and makes you the most money is the way to do it. Saves you time and most of the time gets the job done. Coming from the car sales world. I can't imagine the Hvac world is very different. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 3:46:32 PM EDT
[#6]
Needed a hottub wired up.
1st bid $5200 chain biz 2nd bid $4400 another chain biz 3rd bid just a guy running a solo business $1350....we now use him for our business, home an recommend him to others. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 3:51:01 PM EDT
[#7]
Different version of same story here. Liked our HVAC company until they turned into salesmen. Final straw was when the guy changed his story instantly from talking to my wife and me. He didn’t realize I was working from home upstairs and asked a couple of questions…
Sad because we had to fire a mechanic for the same reason. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 4:11:07 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GAcop: I guess we got a good company when we got our new system a few years ago. I pay $16/ month for a lifetime warranty. They come out twice a year and service everything, clean the cooling coils and air handler in the attic, clean the coils in the condenser outside, and just check the whole system. So far, I had to have a capacitor replaced, the fan motor on the condenser unit replaced, and the blower motor replaced. $0 cost to me, parts and labor covered. ‘ Wow…that sounds like a great deal !! . |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 7:08:45 PM EDT
[#9]
I guess its only HVAC businesses that are rip offs.
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Posted: 5/13/2024 7:13:58 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CVO: I guess its only HVAC businesses that are rip offs. I think Op and the rest need to tell us their job profession. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 7:16:03 PM EDT
[#11]
Originally Posted By Biggus_Dickus: For less than 2 hours work and about $325, I fixed it myself. I was told that mine needed replacement because the blower motor quit, and the manufacturer "no longer makes that motor". $200 on a universal blower motor later, the thing was working again. That Chinese blower motor has lasted longer than the OEM. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 7:23:11 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jon101st: I think Op and the rest need to tell us their job profession. I service the liquid cooling systems for liquid Helium in MRI's. What is your profession? |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 7:25:50 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CVO: I service the liquid cooling systems for liquid Helium in MRI's. What is your profession? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CVO: Originally Posted By jon101st: I think Op and the rest need to tell us their job profession. I service the liquid cooling systems for liquid Helium in MRI's. What is your profession? So why does one have to cool liquid helium in the first place? Sounds like a scam to me..........................  |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 7:40:00 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CVO: I service the liquid cooling systems for liquid Helium in MRI's. What is your profession? HVACR tech. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 7:42:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Yobro512]
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VectorX: Absolutely. I am a firm believer in rewarding good service / good behavior, and punishing bad service / bad behavior. You and the fudge guy have it right. I will aggressively provide the appropriate feedback, and I have a long memory. lol "pay attention" to a guy doing a bunch of difficult work for no money. yup here i am listening!!! |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 7:45:49 PM EDT
[#16]
Private Equity buying into the home services market like crazy is pushing wall street run companies into your homes more than ever.
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MO, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 7:53:03 PM EDT
[#17]
I work maintenance at a large public facility. We have decrepit, rusted out roof top and residential split units from the 1980s and 90s that we keep up and running with minimal cost & effort. None of us are really HVAC "professionals".
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Posted: 5/13/2024 8:00:35 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By djkest: This exact thing happened to me. Guy came out and said our furnace was shot. Claimed it was unsafe and was surprised we aren't dead yet from the carbon monoxide. Can replace the heat exchanger, blower motor, and (something else) for $5800 or... Quoted $7.2k for a new furnace. Can install it tomorrow. You can pay after you sell your house. Had another guy come out, no problems. Even with our 18-year old furnace, was running fine. First guy made up bogus readings of CO by sticking his probe into the combustion chamber. Took CO readings at the registers and got nothing, but blew that off anyway. Sticking your combustion gas analyzer wand into the flue gases is how you check for a dirty burning furnace. You can have a furnace that burns 3000ppm and not have CO in your house. The danger is if it does get into your space and you are sleeping or don't realize whats happening you could be dead in a 1/2 hour. CO is nasty as it attaches better to your red blood cells than oxygen. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 8:02:34 PM EDT
[#19]
Originally Posted By Biggus_Dickus: At least most of them, in my recent experience. Own a duplex. A double with family living in both halves. Since we've lived here, I've had the HVAC systems replaced on both sides. The oldest one is 14 years. That one quit running. Since I've been baby sitting my grandson and taking care of my 90 year old mother who broke her hip a couple months ago, I don't have a lot of spare time, so I call the HVAC company we bought from and had install it. Guy comes out, does a few checks and then comes to me. Tells me it's either the blower motor or the ECM and he would replace both for 3300 dollars, but he thought I should just buy a new one (from him of course). Ummm, no. Goodbye. Call a different, larger area company. Long story shortened somewhat, exact same story, except 4800 bucks and "it's 14 years old. You should just buy a new one (from us of course). Ummm, no. Goodbye. Both made it sound like 14 years was ancient. When questioned on this, the second guy claimed they needed replaced every 10 to 15 years. So I take the thing apart, get the part numbers from the motor and controllers. Order the parts on line and when they arrived, installed them and it starts right up and runs perfect. For less than 2 hours work and about $325, I fixed it myself. As mentioned, I have a lot taking up my time, and was willing to pay a reasonable amount to fix my furnace. Had either offered to do it for $1200-$1500, I likely would have had them do it just for convenience. Instead, they went passed that robbery amount (I did mention I fixed it for $335 and less than 2 hours work, right?) and went straight to rape. If you can, fix it yourself. If not, find a trustworthy handyman. The HVAC service companies have no interest in fixing your equipment and will try to sell you new, cause that's where the big payday is. Welcome to the future. How many kids are out there right now that cant change their oil, hang a sturdy shelf, or wire anything? All those people that avoided trades for a college degree? Skilled labor is going to get some happy times for a while, especially as boomers retire out of the trades and its harder to find people with the skills to get stuff done. Guys that can DIY will save a buttload and might have the option of a nice side gig. |
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OK, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 8:21:40 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bluesx: Sticking your combustion gas analyzer wand into the flue gases is how you check for a dirty burning furnace. You can have a furnace that burns 3000ppm and not have CO in your house. The danger is if it does get into your space and you are sleeping or don't realize whats happening you could be dead in a 1/2 hour. CO is nasty as it attaches better to your red blood cells than oxygen. My boss and friend almost lost his daughter to CO poisoning. Pool house had the pool equipment and a bath, heater wasnt vented properly, she passed out in the shower. Permanently disabled. Lawsuit was a slam dunk. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 8:26:47 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jon101st: I think Op and the rest need to tell us their job profession. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jon101st: Originally Posted By CVO: I guess its only HVAC businesses that are rip offs. I think Op and the rest need to tell us their job profession. Retired. Industrial manufacturing. From automobil components for 3 of the big 4, starting with pre WWII equipment to eventually CNC, to manufacturing circuit boards (the making of the printed board, not assembling components to them) for private and military entities. No sales, no customer service. In 38 years of working, never once did I attempt to rape, physically nor financially, anyone whom I was supposed to be working FOR. Hope that answers your question satisfactorily. Nah, I really don't give a shit what anyone who would attempt to justify the type of behavior and business practices I posted about thinks. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 8:32:58 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By xd675: Welcome to the future. How many kids are out there right now that cant change their oil, hang a sturdy shelf, or wire anything? All those people that avoided trades for a college degree? Skilled labor is going to get some happy times for a while, especially as boomers retire out of the trades and its harder to find people with the skills to get stuff done. Guys that can DIY will save a buttload and might have the option of a nice side gig. you guys have no idea how hard it is to find young apprentices who are willing to work hard and learn as 1st years in commercial guaranteed 47$ package after 5 years, 5 years free school. basically guaranteed 6 figures for life. zero sales, just fixing shit and writing in your own time. truck isnt tracked. cant find them to train. so trying to find some hardworking knowledgable cheap'ish guys who know how to work on your home AC? good luck. The future for resi hvac techs is salesmen. im afraid for them HVAC is going the way of the refrigerator. Breaks down? swap out. Tech is getting there just about with China+amazon. |
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UT, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 8:35:23 PM EDT
[#23]
When a plumber or electrician tell me I have a problem, I tend to listen.
When an HVAC guy is telling me anything, I basically believe nothing that is coming out of their mouth. Over the years it doesn't matter if its been a solo guy, a large company or anything in between, its the same bullshit: - Everything I have is about to explode and die and I'll 'be lucky if it lasts the summer'. That's funny, that was over 10 years ago and its still going. - I need all sorts of 'insert bullshit service here' that literally anyone can do (i.e. change out a capacitor) with 30 seconds on youtube, yet they want to push it on me for $500 with again, if I don't do this, everyone on my block will die. - Make the 'old' Freon sound like its going to murder me in my sleep and that its so inefficient that its costing me millions of dollars that I could be saving by upgrading to a new unit for 25k. No one can ever give me an actual number on a break even timeline when I ask. - They all like to talk about how everyone else is screwing people for some reason. Totally unsolicited. This is right around the time they try to screw you with bullshit. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 8:41:58 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NAK: Not only are most of them absolutely dishonest, the collective knowledge about HVAC at some of these firms is laughable. When we moved into our new home, the AC died within less than 60 days, over the July 4th weekend. Brand new Rheem system. Finally get a guy out from the company that installed it 2 days later. He is up in the attic for quit a while...I'm wondering wtf, so I go up. I find him sitting there watching YouTube videos about diagnosing HVAC problems. He has been there 45 minutes and all he knows is that the unit has power.  Attached FileI'm sorry for laughing but this is incredible... pay top dollar for some jackwagon to come out to your place and watch youtube videos.. 
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UT, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 8:42:17 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Into_the_Void: Wait until you find out about the absolute cock sucking fuck HVAC supply shops that won't sell to you because fuck you Yes, I totally forgot about this fuck fuck shit. 5 or so years ago, I needed a part for my compressor unit that somehow was supposed to be sold separately, but everyone just wanted to sell you the entire assembly. First, I don't need an entire assembly and 2nd, why would I pay $1200+ when I need like a $60 part. Search online for a while. Call around. Everyone either doesn't have either or wants to sell me a new compressor assembly. Finally call one of the 2 supply houses here. One has it. I go there and get ignored by 2 guys for 15 minutes before they acknowledge my existence. Said I called earlier and need that part that they said they had in stock. Guy goes and grabs it, and gets on his 1986 Tandy computer. Asks like what job/PO/whatever its for. I'm like...its for me, I need it. Oh, we can't sell this to you. Why not? Is it fucking heroin or something? Call friend. Send friend in who gives them a bullshit PO and the basic info from a local HVAC company we know of. Opts to pay for it there instead of putting it on the account lol. Comes out with part. Fucking retarded. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 8:50:09 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Whiskey1Alpha: Yes, I totally forgot about this fuck fuck shit. 5 or so years ago, I needed a part for my compressor unit that somehow was supposed to be sold separately, but everyone just wanted to sell you the entire assembly. First, I don't need an entire assembly and 2nd, why would I pay $1200+ when I need like a $60 part. Search online for a while. Call around. Everyone either doesn't have either or wants to sell me a new compressor assembly. Finally call one of the 2 supply houses here. One has it. I go there and get ignored by 2 guys for 15 minutes before they acknowledge my existence. Said I called earlier and need that part that they said they had in stock. Guy goes and grabs it, and gets on his 1986 Tandy computer. Asks like what job/PO/whatever its for. I'm like...its for me, I need it. Oh, we can't sell this to you. Why not? Is it fucking heroin or something? Call friend. Send friend in who gives them a bullshit PO and the basic info from a local HVAC company we know of. Opts to pay for it there instead of putting it on the account lol. Comes out with part. Fucking retarded. What was the part? |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 8:50:31 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Biggus_Dickus: Retired. Industrial manufacturing. From automobil components for 3 of the big 4, starting with pre WWII equipment to eventually CNC, to manufacturing circuit boards (the making of the printed board, not assembling components to them) for private and military entities. No sales, no customer service. In 38 years of working, never once did I attempt to rape, physically nor financially, anyone whom I was supposed to be working FOR. Hope that answers your question satisfactorily. Nah, I really don't give a shit what anyone who would attempt to justify the type of behavior and business practices I posted about thinks. So your removed and not directly taking the money. Got it. Just go in hit the time clock and collect your check, health insurance, and retirement! How much would your employer have to charge a regular person to provide you with your current wage and benefits? |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 8:53:51 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jon101st: So your removed and not directly taking the money. Got it. Just go in hit the time clock and collect your check, health insurance, and retirement! How much would your employer have to charge a regular person to provide you with your current wage and benefits? also this. whats the loaded labor rate for you per hour? |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 9:06:27 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jon101st: So your removed and not directly taking the money. Got it. Just go in hit the time clock and collect your check, health insurance, and retirement! How much would your employer have to charge a regular person to provide you with your current wage and benefits? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jon101st: Originally Posted By Biggus_Dickus: Retired. Industrial manufacturing. From automobil components for 3 of the big 4, starting with pre WWII equipment to eventually CNC, to manufacturing circuit boards (the making of the printed board, not assembling components to them) for private and military entities. No sales, no customer service. In 38 years of working, never once did I attempt to rape, physically nor financially, anyone whom I was supposed to be working FOR. Hope that answers your question satisfactorily. Nah, I really don't give a shit what anyone who would attempt to justify the type of behavior and business practices I posted about thinks. So your removed and not directly taking the money. Got it. Just go in hit the time clock and collect your check, health insurance, and retirement! How much would your employer have to charge a regular person to provide you with your current wage and benefits? You'd have to ask people driving C5 through C8 corvettes, a handful of years of Dodge Vipers, or anyone using electronics from AB, Cincinnati Microwave, more than a few I can't remember, or very possibly anyone who ever used Stinger missiles. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 9:10:28 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Biggus_Dickus: You'd have to ask people driving C5 through C8 corvettes, a handful of years of Dodge Vipers, or anyone using electronics from AB, Cincinnati Microwave, more than a few I can't remember, or very possibly anyone who ever used Stinger missiles. Sooo how much? simple question |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 9:15:38 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jon101st: Sooo how much? simple question Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jon101st: Originally Posted By Biggus_Dickus: You'd have to ask people driving C5 through C8 corvettes, a handful of years of Dodge Vipers, or anyone using electronics from AB, Cincinnati Microwave, more than a few I can't remember, or very possibly anyone who ever used Stinger missiles. Sooo how much? simple question Wasn't my end of the business. I made X and Y and Z for 8 to 16 hours a day for $X per hour. I don't know what GM sells Corvettes for VS how much to build them. I DO know none of the dealerships tell you it's going to cost $30,000 for a new set of tires, so you might as well buy a new Corvette from us. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 9:29:51 PM EDT
[#32]
I have 36 years hvac experience, residential, commercial and even industrial. They tried to rip me off, when I used my home warranty, idiot didn't catch the fact that he been told exactly what board and ignitor to bring.
I've seen companies try all sorts of crap back when I was active duty AF. Had one company claim a chillers impeller was warped, when that didn't work they said the motor failed a Meg test. Money's in the mods. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 9:32:03 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Biggus_Dickus: Wasn't my end of the business. I made X and Y and Z for 8 to 16 hours a day for $X per hour. I don't know what GM sells Corvettes for VS how much to build them. I DO know none of the dealerships tell you it's going to cost $30,000 for a new set of tires, so you might as well buy a new Corvette from us. I know you don't know that's the point. Your clueless. You said you had 325 in parts and 2 hour labor on site. Add 2 more hours if you had to drive to your house troubleshoot and call for parts then go pick them up and come back and install. So your employer is going to pay you for 4 hours and 325 to the supply house. What's your hourly wage cost to your employer with your total package and tax? x 4 hours. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 9:33:23 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Keymaster4225: Had the company that services our oil fired heating system to replace a couple busted zone valves. I had looked at parts online and they were right around $100 a piece. They replace this shit, hand me a bill, charges $300 fucking dollars EACH. 300% markup? Fuck you That's not 300% mark up. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 9:36:20 PM EDT
[#35]
It’s gonna get worse boys. Investment groups are buying up the trades. Non skilled workers pushing sales. Got to meet quota. No quality. Just hit those numbers. Sales tech makes commission.
Had an older lady call me for a furnace inspection. Get there and it’s a condo that the previous owner would winterize and go south. It was about 15 years old and practically new. Cleaned it, wrote her up for the inspection and told her it’s ready to rock and roll. Then she shows me what the previous company wrote up last week -furnace has cracked heat exchanger and dangerous. She thanked me for being honest. In the spring she called for no ac. It was dead flat. She told me to put a whole new system in, whatever I recommend for being honest with her in the fall. Then had another one from the same company put a screw into the condenser coil. Two different techs, same company. Told the customer the existing condenser wasn’t compatible with furnace and evap, leaks etc. All same brand and vintage. Went and fixed it up. Customers for life. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 9:43:20 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jon101st: I know you don't know that's the point. Your clueless. You said you had 325 in parts and 2 hour labor on site. Add 2 more hours if you had to drive to your house troubleshoot and call for parts then go pick them up and come back and install. So your employer is going to pay you for 4 hours and 325 to the supply house. What's your hourly wage cost to your employer with your total package and tax? x 4 hours. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jon101st: Originally Posted By Biggus_Dickus: Wasn't my end of the business. I made X and Y and Z for 8 to 16 hours a day for $X per hour. I don't know what GM sells Corvettes for VS how much to build them. I DO know none of the dealerships tell you it's going to cost $30,000 for a new set of tires, so you might as well buy a new Corvette from us. I know you don't know that's the point. Your clueless. You said you had 325 in parts and 2 hour labor on site. Add 2 more hours if you had to drive to your house troubleshoot and call for parts then go pick them up and come back and install. So your employer is going to pay you for 4 hours and 325 to the supply house. What's your hourly wage cost to your employer with your total package and tax? x 4 hours. As mentioned in my OP, I do not expect anyone to work for free. The parts cost ME, someone not in the trade, $325. I'm sure they would have paid less. I also mentioned had they quoted me a reasonable price to replace those parts, $1200-$1500 (more than enough to cover my hourly wage for those hours) I would have had them do it. Instead, they quoted me a hyper inflated price and pushed for system replacement since that was a ridiculous amount to pay to fix that furnace. On that we agreed. It was ridiculous, scandalous, possibly verging on criminal fraudulent. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 9:45:09 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Biggus_Dickus: As mentioned in my OP, I do not expect anyone to work for free. The parts cost ME, someone not in the trade, $325. I'm sure they would have paid less. I also mentioned had they quoted me a reasonable price to replace those parts, $1200-$1500 (more than enough to cover my hourly wage for those hours) I would have had them do it. Instead, they quoted me a hyper inflated price and pushed for system replacement since that was a ridiculous amount to pay to fix that furnace. On that we agreed. It was ridiculous, scandalous, possibly verging on criminal fraudulent. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Biggus_Dickus: Originally Posted By jon101st: Originally Posted By Biggus_Dickus: Wasn't my end of the business. I made X and Y and Z for 8 to 16 hours a day for $X per hour. I don't know what GM sells Corvettes for VS how much to build them. I DO know none of the dealerships tell you it's going to cost $30,000 for a new set of tires, so you might as well buy a new Corvette from us. I know you don't know that's the point. Your clueless. You said you had 325 in parts and 2 hour labor on site. Add 2 more hours if you had to drive to your house troubleshoot and call for parts then go pick them up and come back and install. So your employer is going to pay you for 4 hours and 325 to the supply house. What's your hourly wage cost to your employer with your total package and tax? x 4 hours. As mentioned in my OP, I do not expect anyone to work for free. The parts cost ME, someone not in the trade, $325. I'm sure they would have paid less. I also mentioned had they quoted me a reasonable price to replace those parts, $1200-$1500 (more than enough to cover my hourly wage for those hours) I would have had them do it. Instead, they quoted me a hyper inflated price and pushed for system replacement since that was a ridiculous amount to pay to fix that furnace. On that we agreed. It was ridiculous, scandalous, possibly verging on criminal fraudulent. So your employer is going to pay you for 4 hours and 325 to the supply house. What's your hourly wage cost to your employer with your total package and tax? x 4 hours. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 9:54:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Biggus_Dickus]
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jon101st: So your employer is going to pay you for 4 hours and 325 to the supply house. What's your hourly wage cost to your employer with your total package and tax? x 4 hours. Well let's do a little math. Let's say I paid them $1500 to replace those parts. Let's also say, they paid the full $325 for them. $1500-$325=$1175. $1175÷4=$293.75 an hour. Same equation with my lowest number of $1200 and its still $218.75 per hour. At no time in my life did my pay, hourly+benefits +retirement ever come close to that. Your argument is stupid. You are either stupid or in the scam. I will no longer interact with you trying to justify this bullshit. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 10:19:18 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Biggus_Dickus: Well let's do a little math. Let's say I paid them $1500 to replace those parts. Let's also say, they paid the full $325 for them. $1500-$325=$1175. $1175÷4=$293.75 an hour. Same equation with my lowest number of $1200 and its still $218.75 per hour. At no time in my life did my pay, hourly+benefits +retirement ever come close to that. Your argument is stupid. You are either stupid or in the scam. I will no longer interact with you trying to justify this bullshit. Painting with a broad brush and calling me a scammer sounds like projection to me.. Soooo glad I'm out of residential work. You forgot to add money for your employers profit and overhead. Did that corvette factory you worked at sell them for what it cost to cover just the employee? |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 10:51:36 PM EDT
[#40]
Gah... I am so boned.
 I've got an old '97 vintage Lennox gas forced air stack in my basement. Heat runs like a champ, because Iknow my way around all the start caps, fusable links, and thermocouple & diaphragm sensors. AC is fooked because of dissimilar metal corrosion & micro leaks on the A-frame expansion coil over the gas heat exchanger, it pissed out all the coolant when i popped the side panel and dusted the coils last year. And it's an R22 system. The outside condenser is newer, 2010 or so, a "dry nitrogen" grandfathered unit, when the start cap arced and burned a hole in the compressor pod. And I kept that new fucker clean, like Cameron's Dad's Ferrari in "Ferris Bueler's Day Off" so that it never happened again. I know what I "need." A new uncased 2.5 ton capacity R-22/422D upflow A-frame evaporator coil, which is about $350-500, plus whatever a few pounds of R-422D costs, either from someone's 25lb bottle, or the upcharge penalty per oz on a 5lb if I can find one. And whatever size the proper restrictor orifice needs to be, which is a few dollars. And a few hundred bucks in cash to a competent guy that can sweat the copper, and purge & fill the lines with the the R-422D, because he knows his way around a torch & solder, and understands refrigerant manifold hi & lo side gauges better than I would from just some goddamn YouTube videos. But fuck... if I can't find that guy, I'm gonna try it myself.  I am NOT going to pay $12-15k for all new shit when almost all of it still works except for the goddamn A-frame evaporator, and the R22 that went AWOL to go destroy Ozone. Plus, there's no fucking point. Because when I bought this dump in 2000, I was 27, had no clue about home buying. And didn't know 90% of home inspectors were frauds, and they only look at anything that's likely to blow up within a week, or kill you, and get them sued. And my ductwork was all done DIY in phases by previous owners that had zero clue what the fuck they were doing, using unlined stud spaces as risers, too many 90° bends and size changes, missing cold air returns, and zero balance to any of it. So the nightmare scenario of $12-15k is really probably $20-30k because to "do it right" and not all Gilligan's Island bamboo and coconuts style, means ripping half my house apart, or having the new high efficiency little PVC steamy-vent means my old oil/coal chimney on this 1938 shitbox, can become a run for the little high velocity ducts.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 8:11:54 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ChuckcJax: It ain't just HVAC guys. Nope. Another good one... the oven "igniter" in your gas range. $350-$450. Nope. $19.95 on eBay. Two screws, takes 5 minutes. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 8:20:43 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bluesx: Sticking your combustion gas analyzer wand into the flue gases is how you check for a dirty burning furnace. Paul Harvey would be proud of this ‘the rest of the story’ post. Thank you, @bluesx |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 8:24:48 AM EDT
[#43]
The ECM on ours had went bad. I had about the same experience as you with high quotes .
Did some research and pulled the motor and ECM . There was a blown out capacitor that I was able to get the numbers and order a new one. Soldered it in and it ran fine afterwards. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 8:39:49 AM EDT
[#44]
Just last week my neighbor paid 14K for a (4) ton Goodman heat pump 14 SEER2 change out. They finished it in five hours, two people.
Proud neighbor told me his Goodman is a division of Carrier corporation. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 9:21:36 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By djkest: This exact thing happened to me. Guy came out and said our furnace was shot. Claimed it was unsafe and was surprised we aren't dead yet from the carbon monoxide. Can replace the heat exchanger, blower motor, and (something else) for $5800 or... Quoted $7.2k for a new furnace. Can install it tomorrow. You can pay after you sell your house. Had another guy come out, no problems. Even with our 18-year old furnace, was running fine. First guy made up bogus readings of CO by sticking his probe into the combustion chamber. Took CO readings at the registers and got nothing, but blew that off anyway. The first guy ran combustion analysis. I don’t think your as knowledgeable as you think you are. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 10:10:56 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Yobro512: you guys have no idea how hard it is to find young apprentices who are willing to work hard and learn as 1st years in commercial guaranteed 47$ package after 5 years, 5 years free school. basically guaranteed 6 figures for life. zero sales, just fixing shit and writing in your own time. truck isnt tracked. cant find them to train. so trying to find some hardworking knowledgable cheap'ish guys who know how to work on your home AC? good luck. The future for resi hvac techs is salesmen. im afraid for them HVAC is going the way of the refrigerator. Breaks down? swap out. Tech is getting there just about with China+amazon. 4 of our 8 interns this summer are graduating high school seniors either entering trade school or pursuing 4 year engineering degrees. Interest is out there, just have to have dedicated staff out looking for them. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 10:26:21 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NAK: Not only are most of them absolutely dishonest, the collective knowledge about HVAC at some of these firms is laughable. When we moved into our new home, the AC died within less than 60 days, over the July 4th weekend. Brand new Rheem system. Finally get a guy out from the company that installed it 2 days later. He is up in the attic for quit a while...I'm wondering wtf, so I go up. I find him sitting there watching YouTube videos about diagnosing HVAC problems. He has been there 45 minutes and all he knows is that the unit has power. If you want really understand how bad it is, head over to Reddit and start following the r/HVAC. They brag about commissions and getting people to replace 2 year old units, talk about their company's minimum expected billing for every service call, and joke about 400%-800% markup on parts. And they wonder why the good service techs are getting all those little residential jobs as side work… |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 10:58:13 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By contract: Not an honest trade left.  When over 90% are shady, across every industry, it's just game over. America has NO MORALS anymore. People are shit. Remember when folks were actually GOOD HUMAN BEINGS? Those days are gone. This. I feel like plumbers are getting to be the worst. Our friends got 3 quotes to replace their water heater that was already delivered to the house; one was $17,000. One was $5,500. One was $3,700. All for the exact same job. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 11:32:35 AM EDT
[#49]
I love hvac threads here on arfcom.
Pro tip. Start learning to fix your own shit. Trades are dying...the guy with the knowledge are jumping ship, and it's not timmy,Johnny and Robert who is gonna be doing your work. Also new hvac regulations tool effect back in January. Your evap coil etc takes a dump. There's no mix matching of units anymore. 410a is being phased out as well. All this means is more cost. Which means guys like the Op...get to eat the cost( in creased labor. Parts etc ) or go fiddle dick on youtube watching parts select videos to fix their 1989 maytag dryer.... For the record since it's a tradesmen dick measuring event..20+ years doing hvac plumbing,electric and appliance repair. Also a licensed CPO in Florida. I've had 9 units installed on site here in the last 8 days...all R22 and one carrier unit because the coil is fucking backorderd. I'll drop 16$ caps and 35$ boards all day long to keep shit going vs replacement... But r22 units gotta go. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 11:38:40 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By protus: I love hvac threads here on arfcom. Pro tip. Start learning to fix your own shit. Trades are dying...the guy with the knowledge are jumping ship, and it's not timmy,Johnny and Robert who is gonna be doing your work. It's Jose, Ramiro, and Pedro that will be doing the work in the future. Those guys are use to working for slave wages and there are millions of them being sent all throughout the country. |
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