When good news is bad news - article thoughts

I draw upon recent events in NOLA as a litmus test for what this article brings to light. The parallels are disturbing. The movement to a police-state-like environment due to the emergency would be similar to expanded powers mentioned in the article.

If you have not read this article, do yourself a favor and buy a copy of SWAT and read it.

The obvious hot topic on firearms boards has been around confiscation of arms. Maybe it is too soon to discuss this until calmer heads can prevail on both the side of LEO and non-LEO. While pro-firearm boards will be biased, there are many, self professed, law abiding CCW holders that frequent them; therefore although biased, I see them as an important piece of the puzzle when it comes to LEO support and how they may react during the next crisis as a result of the NOLA response.

Denny and Rich any thoughts you would like to share would be appreciated. I'm not sure if the author of the article, Claire Wolfe, frequents this site or not. Congrats to Claire on a fine article either way.

Suggestion - how about a follow up article on the NOLA response tying into/referencing Claire's Sep. 2005 article when the time is appropriate?

Note: I left certain words out of the article name with the intention of wanting to avoid a bashing thread.

I finally read the article this morn at work and I thought it was really good. My SWAT mag has been in my in my truck for over a month now and Im just getting around to reading it .

I read the article, and I agree there are many similarities beween New Orleans in "State of Emergency" mode and the extended police powers described in the magazine.

My own LE background is limited to Sheriff's Dept reserve duty and a few years of active duty in the Army, so don't consider anything I say as being accurately representative of the police. Just an opinion.

The article concluded, and rightly so in my opinion, that this type of intrusiveness damages the relationship between police and law abiding civilians. The police stop distinguishing between them and the criminals, and civilians stop distinguishing between good cops and the bad few.

It was scary stuff watching homeowners not accused of any crime sitting flex-cuffed in their front yard while the police searched their homes for firearms, I never thought I'd see this in the US and I hope I never do again.

Thanks for the kind comments. On of our primary missions at S.W.A.T. is to rebuild the bridge between law abiding gun owners and LE that the anti’s have tried to burn with things such as “cop killer bullets,” “Saturday Night Specials,” “assault weapons,” etc. etc.
In short, to find the common ground between the man on the street and the cop on the beat. One way to do that is to recognize each strengths and weakness, and open a dialogue. That is the main purpose behind Claire’s columns.

Thanks again.

While the NOLA confiscations are a frightening reminder of just how many morons exist in places of power; they were also a real reminder that far and away, most of the cops out there are quite willing to disobey unconstitutional orders. How else would one explain how weak and sporadic the confiscation reports were?

Even the NRA (which has handled this astoundingly well) has sent out an announcement seeking first hand stories.

While Nagin needs to be voted out of office and Compass needs to be brought up on charges, it looks like the vast majority of LEO's and NatGuard simply ignored these clowns and concentrated on the work of helping people; despite the stories we saw and heard of visibly armed law abiding citizens.
Rich

Denny and Rich,

Please keep Claire Wolfe. There has been some shit flung your way on some other boards by the 'respect MY AUTHORITAH!' types, but IMO you guys are doing the right thing.

Claire Wolfes stuff is great. Sometimes I read the column and think "how the hell can a magazine thats popular with cops print that!?!?". It's good stuff though, it provokes thought, and anyone who is afraid of that has a problem.

When you guys were doing the charity thing I bought a three year subscription. I can't wait!

Originally Posted By Rich_Lucibella: While the NOLA confiscations are a frightening reminder of just how many morons exist in places of power; they were also a real reminder that far and away, most of the cops out there are quite willing to disobey unconstitutional orders. How else would one explain how weak and sporadic the confiscation reports were?

Fully agreed on all points in your post, and I want to call out this part for exploration. In my current home state (NJ) I'm not so sure the local PD(s) would be as interpretive.

An easy, albeit admittedly not conclusive, indicator of the relationship between police and civilians is the wave test. See a cop, give a friendly wave.

I've lived in TX, TN, PA, KY, GA, and now NJ. I've yet to receive my first return wave in NJ, and it's been 5+ years. This is in the high-end suburbs, not downtown. These are guys sitting at a traffic light, not prepping for a felony takedown.

Are they so Condition Yellow they're evaluating me as a potential threat, are they not situationally-aware enough to notice, or do they just not have enough respect for a civilian to return a polite gesture?

This could be just the societal norm up here, and may have no significance in gauging how the police in general regard civilians. (People in NJ do seem to do their waving with only one finger extended more often than not :) )

We won't know until a disaster happens here, and they knock on my door...hopefully never.

5thCav-
I'll take you back 30 years when I spent 4th of July weekend in the County Jail in sunny Burlington County, NJ. It was pretty sleepless.

When I finally got my day in court, I demonstrated to the Judge what the cops wouldn't hear:
- Pre '66 Mossberg Shotguns did not sport serial numbers.
- Flat parts on the Barrels of Shotguns are called "mating" surfaces, not "places where the serial number was filed off".

I walked.
I never did get my shotgun back.
I was not happy.
Rich

Ouch.

My wife and I agreed to a property tax threshold at which we sell and move to PA...the rate at which it's increased each year shows us packing up ~2009. If Corzine gets elected and begins the gun-grab as anticipated, that will accelerate the process.

I haven't been to this forum for a few days and I just saw this thread. I was going to start a thread telling Denny and Rich how great Claire Wolf's articles are, she really has the pulse of what's going on in this country. Her article in last months issue (Sept 05) was one of the best srticles I have ever read. I have been thinking the same think about how much expanded authority Police are being given and it reallyhas me worried. I have experienced first hand ( more than once) being pulled over and having the police search my car for no reason other than I am young and they hope to find something illegal(which they never have). I have no problems with most police and if anything I am a very big supporter of them but one day I fear that the American people are going to say enough is enough and as Claire said "law enforcement officers can expect one firece backlash"

I just wanted to let you guys know how much I enjoy Claire's articles and to make sure she is kept around for a while.

Thanks guys,

Bill

Originally Posted By 5thCavGuy: Originally Posted By Rich_Lucibella: While the NOLA confiscations are a frightening reminder of just how many morons exist in places of power; they were also a real reminder that far and away, most of the cops out there are quite willing to disobey unconstitutional orders. How else would one explain how weak and sporadic the confiscation reports were? Fully agreed on all points in your post, and I want to call out this part for exploration. In my current home state (NJ) I'm not so sure the local PD(s) would be as interpretive. An easy, albeit admittedly not conclusive, indicator of the relationship between police and civilians is the wave test. See a cop, give a friendly wave. I've lived in TX, TN, PA, KY, GA, and now NJ. I've yet to receive my first return wave in NJ, and it's been 5+ years. This is in the high-end suburbs, not downtown. These are guys sitting at a traffic light, not prepping for a felony takedown. Are they so Condition Yellow they're evaluating me as a potential threat, are they not situationally-aware enough to notice, or do they just not have enough respect for a civilian to return a polite gesture? This could be just the societal norm up here, and may have no significance in gauging how the police in general regard civilians. (People in NJ do seem to do their waving with only one finger extended more often than not :) ) We won't know until a disaster happens here, and they knock on my door...hopefully never.

Yeah. Former Bernardsville inmateresident here, and the police there were incredible assholes. Don't miss NJ one bit.

Originally Posted By modog: Originally Posted By 5thCavGuy: Originally Posted By Rich_Lucibella: While the NOLA confiscations are a frightening reminder of just how many morons exist in places of power; they were also a real reminder that far and away, most of the cops out there are quite willing to disobey unconstitutional orders. How else would one explain how weak and sporadic the confiscation reports were? Fully agreed on all points in your post, and I want to call out this part for exploration. In my current home state (NJ) I'm not so sure the local PD(s) would be as interpretive. An easy, albeit admittedly not conclusive, indicator of the relationship between police and civilians is the wave test. See a cop, give a friendly wave. I've lived in TX, TN, PA, KY, GA, and now NJ. I've yet to receive my first return wave in NJ, and it's been 5+ years. This is in the high-end suburbs, not downtown. These are guys sitting at a traffic light, not prepping for a felony takedown. Are they so Condition Yellow they're evaluating me as a potential threat, are they not situationally-aware enough to notice, or do they just not have enough respect for a civilian to return a polite gesture? This could be just the societal norm up here, and may have no significance in gauging how the police in general regard civilians. (People in NJ do seem to do their waving with only one finger extended more often than not :) ) We won't know until a disaster happens here, and they knock on my door...hopefully never. Yeah. Former Bernardsville inmateresident here, and the police there were incredible assholes. Don't miss NJ one bit.

I lived in NJ for my whole live up until a year and a half ago. I left for 3 main reasons 1) the gun laws 2) the polotics 3) the police are the biggest assholes I have ever seen, it is literaly like living in a communist police state. It is truly amazing how different the attitudes are between the cops where I live now (PA) and the ones from NJ.

November should be on newsstands now. Dec is scheduled to this the stands 11/08.

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack: Claire Wolfes stuff is great. Sometimes I read the column and think "how the hell can a magazine thats popular with cops print that!?!?"

Great question.

Hey Denny,,,,,,,,,
Has this been discussed anywhere else ????????

Jay

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack: Claire Wolfes stuff is great.

Here, here!

I will be subscribing soon.

Has this been discussed anywhere else ????????

You crack me up, Jay.

Originally Posted By AZCOP: Originally Posted By Combat_Jack: Claire Wolfes stuff is great. Sometimes I read the column and think "how the hell can a magazine thats popular with cops print that!?!?" Great question. Hey Denny,,,,,,,,, Has this been discussed anywhere else ???????? Jay

You are refferring to the 5 page thread on tacforums, no?

I have an account on most of the worthwhile forums online. And even the trashy ones.

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack: Originally Posted By AZCOP: Originally Posted By Combat_Jack: Claire Wolfes stuff is great. Sometimes I read the column and think "how the hell can a magazine thats popular with cops print that!?!?" Great question. Hey Denny,,,,,,,,, Has this been discussed anywhere else ???????? Jay You are refferring to the 5 page thread on tacforums, no?

Actually, no.

Denny and I had some hand to hand email combat about Wolfe's ramblings.
Just when I thought I had gained the tactical advantage, the next issue of SWAT arrived in my mail box with Pat Rogers' article on the Noveske, and I just had to admit defeat.

There's always more good than bad in SWAT.
As long as I can read a great article written by great people like Pat, who cares what a Wolfe rambles on about.

Jay

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