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Rapture?
5/19/2011 6:06:09 PM
I know the word rapture isn't in the bible. But where does it reference it in scripture?
Thanks.
Thanks.
5/20/2011 10:12:32 AM
I don't believe in the modern day protestant view of the rapture but this verse comes up a lot.
1 Thessalonians 4:16–17, which states, "For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first; then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord."
The term "rapture" is derived from the text of the Latin Vulgate of 1 Thess. 4:17—"we will be caught up," [Latin: rapiemur]).
http://www.catholic.com/library/Rapture.asp
1 Thessalonians 4:16–17, which states, "For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first; then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord."
The term "rapture" is derived from the text of the Latin Vulgate of 1 Thess. 4:17—"we will be caught up," [Latin: rapiemur]).
http://www.catholic.com/library/Rapture.asp
5/20/2011 1:48:23 PM
It's not even universally a "Protestant" view either. And about the often quoted verse: That's a description of Judgement Day. So if you're asking if that's going to happen, (the "Rapture", where believers will be taken up) on Judgement Day, absolutely. but not a day before.
5/20/2011 9:36:53 PM
Matthew chapters 24 & 25
5/21/2011 4:54:43 AM
Originally Posted By WindKnot1-1:
So if you're asking if that's going to happen, (the "Rapture", where believers will be taken up) on Judgement Day, absolutely. but not a day before.
So if you're asking if that's going to happen, (the "Rapture", where believers will be taken up) on Judgement Day, absolutely. but not a day before.
1 Thessalonians 4:15 -17 describes Judgment Day the rapture, but gotta side with a pre-trib rapture here. A problem arises when people read "no man knows the day or hour". If Jesus is coming in the clouds at the end of the tribulation, anyone who can count down 7 years (or 3.5 years from the mid-trib Abomination of Desolation) will know exactly HIS return. Daniel 12 gives the exact number of days.
Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Edited to strikeout above. That'll teach me to post at 4am.
5/21/2011 12:37:22 PM
The history of the church has always had more than its share of false teachers who claim to have calculated and determined the time when Jesus will return in glory and judge mankind. While they may reach their conclusions in different ways, they all have one thing in common: they are false teachers and do not deserve our attention.
Jesus repeatedly emphasized that we are constantly and continuously to remain alert and prepared for the Last Day. That's ultimately all we know and need to know other than this: We are properly prepared for Christ's second coming when we know and rely on what he did for us at his first coming. Never are we instructed to calculate past dates of events (e.g., creation, the flood, Christ's crucifixion and resurrection), and never are we encouraged to calculate the future date of judgment day. Nowhere in the Bible are we given adequate information to enable us to do such things.
In other words, there is no validity to the subjective and irresponsible teachings of any date-setters.
Satan is delighted whenever Christians are misled by error or persuaded to focus inappropriate attention on worthless ideas at the expense of Bible truths including its central message about our sinfulness and our Savior Jesus Christ. The devil gets good use out of these false teachers and their sensationalistic pronouncements
Jesus repeatedly emphasized that we are constantly and continuously to remain alert and prepared for the Last Day. That's ultimately all we know and need to know other than this: We are properly prepared for Christ's second coming when we know and rely on what he did for us at his first coming. Never are we instructed to calculate past dates of events (e.g., creation, the flood, Christ's crucifixion and resurrection), and never are we encouraged to calculate the future date of judgment day. Nowhere in the Bible are we given adequate information to enable us to do such things.
In other words, there is no validity to the subjective and irresponsible teachings of any date-setters.
Satan is delighted whenever Christians are misled by error or persuaded to focus inappropriate attention on worthless ideas at the expense of Bible truths including its central message about our sinfulness and our Savior Jesus Christ. The devil gets good use out of these false teachers and their sensationalistic pronouncements
5/23/2011 11:40:48 PM
When the believers are caught up with Jesus. One main view is that there will be a rapture, a thousand year earthly kingdom, then judgment-millenialists. They use a strict 1000 year period, hence the math for an exact day.
The other view is that we have always lived in end times since Christ was Transfigured, and we we'll be raptured up on the very last day-amillenialists. The thousand years is not exact like most numbers used in Revelation. Amillenialsts are criticized for doing that, but it makes more sense when taken as a whole. For instance, it's hard for a Satan who'd been thrown in the lake of fire, to then be loosed at the end of a thousand years after Christs earthly reign, to then be bound after, it looses it's sense.
What is striking in the quoted Matthew text is that millenialists ignore the first part of the text. It states that as in the time of Noah so it shall be at the end of time. With Noah, the condemed were "raptured", but the saved were not. This view that the two working and one taken away assumes the saved person was taken away. So that would not be the same as the time of Noah making the text incorrect. Either way Christ will return and with the Grace of God all our missunderstandings will be forgiven.
The other view is that we have always lived in end times since Christ was Transfigured, and we we'll be raptured up on the very last day-amillenialists. The thousand years is not exact like most numbers used in Revelation. Amillenialsts are criticized for doing that, but it makes more sense when taken as a whole. For instance, it's hard for a Satan who'd been thrown in the lake of fire, to then be loosed at the end of a thousand years after Christs earthly reign, to then be bound after, it looses it's sense.
What is striking in the quoted Matthew text is that millenialists ignore the first part of the text. It states that as in the time of Noah so it shall be at the end of time. With Noah, the condemed were "raptured", but the saved were not. This view that the two working and one taken away assumes the saved person was taken away. So that would not be the same as the time of Noah making the text incorrect. Either way Christ will return and with the Grace of God all our missunderstandings will be forgiven.
5/25/2011 2:23:49 PM
I believe the Church will be raptured before the tribulation begins.
5/31/2011 8:36:52 PM
Originally Posted By WindKnot1-1:
Jesus repeatedly emphasized that we are constantly and continuously to remain alert and prepared for the Last Day.
The parable of the 10 virgins points to the need to constantly be ready for His return and that no one knows when He will come to take His bride away. He will come as a thief in the night.
Jesus repeatedly emphasized that we are constantly and continuously to remain alert and prepared for the Last Day.
¿How do thieves come in the night? They come suddenly, bust in, take the valuables, and are gone. To reiterate, the time is unknown but their exit may be known due to what was taken. Contrast that to the 2520 day period from the signing of the peace treaty by the elders of Zion with the AC and the Mount of Olives splitting when the Messiah steps on it. You know with a certainty that 1260 days from the signing of agreement that the AC is going to set himself up as god in the 3rd temple and that 1260 days from that event that The Messiah is going to arrive in Jerusalem. So, the date of the return of Christ will be known in the future after the start of the "days of Jacob's troubles". I'll repeat, the exact date of His return in glory with the whole world seeing him will not be a secret to those that know this basic prophecy. Hence && therefore, His return as a 'thief in the night' has to be an unscheduled event.
This leaves us with the church being taken away in ἄτομος or
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Which is why we should be always prayerful and living according to His word.
Camping -=>
<=- wganz6/1/2011 12:09:49 AM
¿How do thieves come in the night? They come suddenly, bust in, take the valuables, and are gone. To reiterate, the time is unknown but their exit may be known due to what was taken. Contrast that to the 2520 day period from the signing of the peace treaty by the elders of Zion with the AC and the Mount of Olives splitting when the Messiah steps on it. You know with a certainty that 1260 days from the signing of agreement that the AC is going to set himself up as god in the 3rd temple and that 1260 days from that event that The Messiah is going to arrive in Jerusalem. So, the date of the return of Christ will be known in the future after the start of the "days of Jacob's troubles". I'll repeat, the exact date of His return in glory with the whole world seeing him will not be a secret to those that know this basic prophecy. Hence && therefore, His return as a 'thief in the night' has to be an unscheduled event.
He's only coming back once... on Judgement Day. Scripture talks about believers being gathered to Christ on judgment day, but not about a secret rapture at an earlier time (Matthew 24, 1 Thessalonians 4). The being "caught up" that is described and taught in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 is an event that will take place on the last day. Matthew 24:41 needs to be understood in its complete context. Earlier in this chapter Jesus said that at his second coming the world will be destroyed (Matthew 24:29). In Matthew 24:31 he said the angels will gather the elect to be with him. Then in Jesus indicated that not everyone is among the elect, so as the elect are gathered, their immediate neighbors who are not the elect will not be taken to be with Jesus (Matthew 24:40,41). In Matthew 24:51, Matthew 25:10-12, Matthew 25:30, and Matthew 25:31-46 (especially v.46) Jesus explained what will happen to the others who are not gathered with the elect.
6/1/2011 10:21:18 PM
Originally Posted By gregw45:
1 Thessalonians 4:15 -17 describes Judgment Day the rapture, but gotta side with a pre-trib rapture here. A problem arises when people read "no man knows the day or hour". If Jesus is coming in the clouds at the end of the tribulation, anyone who can count down 7 years (or 3.5 years from the mid-trib Abomination of Desolation) will know exactly HIS return. Daniel 12 gives the exact number of days.
Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Edited to strikeout above. That'll teach me to post at 4am.
Originally Posted By WindKnot1-1:
So if you're asking if that's going to happen, (the "Rapture", where believers will be taken up) on Judgement Day, absolutely. but not a day before.
So if you're asking if that's going to happen, (the "Rapture", where believers will be taken up) on Judgement Day, absolutely. but not a day before.
1 Thessalonians 4:15 -17 describes Judgment Day the rapture, but gotta side with a pre-trib rapture here. A problem arises when people read "no man knows the day or hour". If Jesus is coming in the clouds at the end of the tribulation, anyone who can count down 7 years (or 3.5 years from the mid-trib Abomination of Desolation) will know exactly HIS return. Daniel 12 gives the exact number of days.
Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Edited to strikeout above. That'll teach me to post at 4am.
Well said both times when Jesus is Revealed on earth the exact day is always given. Something to consider.
The Interval (Dan 9:26)
The apparent gap between the 69th week (verse 25) and the 70th week (verse 27):
Daniel 9:26 (NKJV)
[26] "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
After the first 7 weeks and 62 weeks brings us to the conclusin of 69 week where Jesus rides into Jerusalem on the back of a donkey and then being crucified. The city being destroyed and the sanctuary being destroyed in 70 AD Jesus spoke of this in,
Luke 19:41-44 (NKJV)
[41] Now as He drew near, He saw the city and wept over it,
[42] saying, "If you had known, even you, especially in this your day, the things that make for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes.
[43] For days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment around you, surround you and close you in on every side,
[44] and level you, and your children within you, to the ground; and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not know the time of your visitation."
Now the Jews are scatted all over the world no more homeland no more temple no more country. This makes it very hard to enter into a covenant spoken of in verse 27
.
Daniel 9:27 (NKJV)
[27] Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."
It could not have been possible to enter into a covenant spoken of in verse 27 until the times we live in now. There is a prophecy in Isaiah which worth reading because of its implications to Israel history.
Isaiah 66:8 (NKJV)
Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Shall the earth be made to give birth in one day? Or shall a nation be born at once? For as soon as Zion was in labor, She gave birth to her children.
This prophecy was fulfilled on May 14, 1948 when the united nations declared Israel a nation. May 13, 1948 no nation of Israel May 14, 1948 they are a nation in one day just Isaiah prophesied.
So now it is possible for Israel to enter into the covenant spoken of in verse 27.
The 70th Week
The remaining week or 70th week is well document in the book of Revelation, Chapters 6 through 19, this tell of the events of judgment or tribulation.
Amillenarians teach that Christ’s First Advent ministry was in the 70th “seven,” that there was no interval between the 69th and 70th “sevens,” and that the six actions predicted in Daniel 9:24 are being fulfilled today in the church. This view, however,
(a) ignores the fact that verse 26 says “after the 62 sevens, ‘ ”not “in the 70th seven, ‘” (b) overlooks the fact that Christ’s ministry on earth was three and one-half years in length, not seven, and
(c) ignores the fact that God’s six actions pertain to Daniel’s “people” (Israel) and His “Holy City” (Jerusalem), not the church.
6/1/2011 10:31:38 PM
1st visit to earth and His identity reveled. Exact date!
The Triumphal Entry
Then, one day, He meticulously arranges it. On this particular day he rode into the city of Jerusalem riding on a donkey, deliberately fulfilling a prophecy by Zechariah that the Messiah would present Himself as king in just that way:
Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.
Zechariah 9:9
Whenever we might easily miss the significance of what was going on, the Pharisees come to our rescue. They felt that the overzealous crowd was blaspheming, proclaiming Jesus as the Messiah the King. However, Jesus endorsed it!
I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.
Luke 19:40
This is the only occasion that Jesus presented Himself as King. It occurred on April 6, 32 A.D.
The Precision of Prophecy
When we examine the period between March 14, 445 B.C. and April 6, 32 A.D., and correct for leap years, we discover that it is 173,880 days exactly, to the very day!
How could Daniel have known this in advance? How could anyone have contrived to have this detailed prediction documented over three centuries in advance? But there's more.
The Interval (Dan 9:26)
There appears to be a gap between the 69th week (verse 25) and the 70th week (verse 27):
And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Daniel 9:26
The sixty-two "weeks" follow the initial seven, so verse 26 deals with events after 69th week, but before the 70th. These events include the Messiah being killed and the city and sanctuary being destroyed.
As Jesus approached the city on the donkey, He also predicted the destruction of Jerusalem:
For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.
Luke 19:43-44
The Messiah was, of course, executed at the Crucifixion..."but not for Himself."
The city and the sanctuary were destroyed 38 years later when the Roman legions under Titus Vespasian leveled the city of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, precisely as Daniel and Jesus had predicted. In fact, as one carefully examines Jesus' specific words, it appears that He held them accountable to know this astonishing prophecy in Daniel 9! "Because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation."
The 70th Week
There is a remaining seven-year period to be fulfilled. This period is the most documented period in the entire Bible. The Book of Revelation, Chapters 6 through 19, is essentially a detailing of that climactic period.
The interval between the 69th and 70th week continues, but it is increasingly apparent that it may soon be over.
The more one is familiar with the numerous climactic themes of "end-time" prophecy, the more it seems that Daniel's 70th Week is on our horizon.
Have you done your homework? Are you and your family prepared?
As the holiday season approaches, share with your family and friends this incredible demonstration of just who Jesus really is, and what the significance of all this is to every one of us!
Amazing grace, indeed!
The Triumphal Entry
Then, one day, He meticulously arranges it. On this particular day he rode into the city of Jerusalem riding on a donkey, deliberately fulfilling a prophecy by Zechariah that the Messiah would present Himself as king in just that way:
Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.
Zechariah 9:9
Whenever we might easily miss the significance of what was going on, the Pharisees come to our rescue. They felt that the overzealous crowd was blaspheming, proclaiming Jesus as the Messiah the King. However, Jesus endorsed it!
I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.
Luke 19:40
This is the only occasion that Jesus presented Himself as King. It occurred on April 6, 32 A.D.
The Precision of Prophecy
When we examine the period between March 14, 445 B.C. and April 6, 32 A.D., and correct for leap years, we discover that it is 173,880 days exactly, to the very day!
How could Daniel have known this in advance? How could anyone have contrived to have this detailed prediction documented over three centuries in advance? But there's more.
The Interval (Dan 9:26)
There appears to be a gap between the 69th week (verse 25) and the 70th week (verse 27):
And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Daniel 9:26
The sixty-two "weeks" follow the initial seven, so verse 26 deals with events after 69th week, but before the 70th. These events include the Messiah being killed and the city and sanctuary being destroyed.
As Jesus approached the city on the donkey, He also predicted the destruction of Jerusalem:
For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.
Luke 19:43-44
The Messiah was, of course, executed at the Crucifixion..."but not for Himself."
The city and the sanctuary were destroyed 38 years later when the Roman legions under Titus Vespasian leveled the city of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, precisely as Daniel and Jesus had predicted. In fact, as one carefully examines Jesus' specific words, it appears that He held them accountable to know this astonishing prophecy in Daniel 9! "Because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation."
The 70th Week
There is a remaining seven-year period to be fulfilled. This period is the most documented period in the entire Bible. The Book of Revelation, Chapters 6 through 19, is essentially a detailing of that climactic period.
The interval between the 69th and 70th week continues, but it is increasingly apparent that it may soon be over.
The more one is familiar with the numerous climactic themes of "end-time" prophecy, the more it seems that Daniel's 70th Week is on our horizon.
Have you done your homework? Are you and your family prepared?
As the holiday season approaches, share with your family and friends this incredible demonstration of just who Jesus really is, and what the significance of all this is to every one of us!
Amazing grace, indeed!
6/5/2011 9:09:53 PM
6/6/2011 1:16:36 PM
Originally Posted By glazer1972:
I believe the Church will be raptured before the tribulation begins.
I believe the Church will be raptured before the tribulation begins.
I ascribe to this theory.
6/6/2011 9:51:51 PM
Originally Posted By BusMaster007:
I ascribe to this theory.
Originally Posted By glazer1972:
I believe the Church will be raptured before the tribulation begins.
I believe the Church will be raptured before the tribulation begins.
I ascribe to this theory.
A Repudiation of the Rapture
Will there be a Millennium?
The Siege at Jerusalem in AD 70 and the Tribulation
The Great Tribulation of Matthew 24:21
Will Jesus Reign on Earth for 1000 Years?
6/7/2011 6:52:23 PM
Maybe I'm in "The Confusement Park" here, but Jesus isn't coming for the 'Raptured', He's waiting to come back for when the REAL 'SHTF' happens.
Rapture is the time to show people left behind there really is something to hope, and possibly be martyred for.
Living during the 7-year reign of Anti-Christ would be Hell on Earth, but not Eternal separation from God.
You would have a clear choice, if left behind. It couldn't be more obvious at that point.
Hal Lindsey's writings were important to me in my early 20's, and my belief is still in the hope of what he said.
I never saw him as a 'false teacher'.
I realize I could study this further, and I will.
Just don't ruin my FUN...doggone it.
ETA:
Rapture is the time to show people left behind there really is something to hope, and possibly be martyred for.
Living during the 7-year reign of Anti-Christ would be Hell on Earth, but not Eternal separation from God.
You would have a clear choice, if left behind. It couldn't be more obvious at that point.
Hal Lindsey's writings were important to me in my early 20's, and my belief is still in the hope of what he said.
I never saw him as a 'false teacher'.
I realize I could study this further, and I will.
Just don't ruin my FUN...doggone it.
ETA:
6/7/2011 7:08:39 PM
Tag.
6/7/2011 10:28:37 PM
Originally Posted By Lootie23:
Tag.
Tag.
Me, too.
6/8/2011 9:48:57 PM
Originally Posted By WindKnot1-1:
The pertinent parts of Matthew 24(verses 42-44) are referenced above && I've highlighted them for your convenience. Please expound on how a day will come like a thief in the night when it will be known with absolute certainty 2520 days in advance what will occur?
¿How do thieves come in the night? They come suddenly, bust in, take the valuables, and are gone. To reiterate, the time is unknown but their exit may be known due to what was taken. Contrast that to the 2520 day period from the signing of the peace treaty by the elders of Zion with the AC and the Mount of Olives splitting when the Messiah steps on it. You know with a certainty that 1260 days from the signing of agreement that the AC is going to set himself up as god in the 3rd temple and that 1260 days from that event that The Messiah is going to arrive in Jerusalem. So, the date of the return of Christ will be known in the future after the start of the "days of Jacob's troubles". I'll repeat, the exact date of His return in glory with the whole world seeing him will not be a secret to those that know this basic prophecy. Hence && therefore, His return as a 'thief in the night' has to be an unscheduled event.
He's only coming back once... on Judgement Day. Scripture talks about believers being gathered to Christ on judgment day, but not about a secret rapture at an earlier time (Matthew 24, 1 Thessalonians 4). The being "caught up" that is described and taught in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 is an event that will take place on the last day. Matthew 24:41 needs to be understood in its complete context. Earlier in this chapter Jesus said that at his second coming the world will be destroyed (Matthew 24:29). In Matthew 24:31 he said the angels will gather the elect to be with him. Then in Jesus indicated that not everyone is among the elect, so as the elect are gathered, their immediate neighbors who are not the elect will not be taken to be with Jesus (Matthew 24:40,41). In Matthew 24:51, Matthew 25:10-12, Matthew 25:30, and Matthew 25:31-46 (especially v.46) Jesus explained what will happen to the others who are not gathered with the elect.On a lesser note, for 1 Thessalonians 4:17 it doesn't make sense to be caught up into the air when immediately you will head back down. Also 1 Thessalonians 4:9 has "For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ." This last seven year period is a time when the wrath of God is poured out upon the world.
6/8/2011 11:17:04 PM
Originally Posted By Bale2011:
A Repudiation of the Rapture
Will there be a Millennium?
The Siege at Jerusalem in AD 70 and the Tribulation
The Great Tribulation of Matthew 24:21
Will Jesus Reign on Earth for 1000 Years?
A Repudiation of the Rapture
Will there be a Millennium?
The Siege at Jerusalem in AD 70 and the Tribulation
The Great Tribulation of Matthew 24:21
Will Jesus Reign on Earth for 1000 Years?
After looking through their FAQ PDF, I can see that I wouldn't put any faith in what those folks say about the Rapture or much of anything else for that matter.
6/10/2011 9:14:43 AM
Did you actually read through all of those articles and fact-check them with your Bible (a commonly accepted KJV, NKJV, ASV, etc.), or did you skip over them and search for a reason to dismiss them out-of-hand? I would pray about it.
6/17/2011 7:50:34 PM
"he will come like a thief in the night"
...IMO live like your ready to go, because whether you believe in the rapture or not...you wont know the day nor hour...and that is in the bible, and boom...the eastern sky is split...that is all fact
...IMO live like your ready to go, because whether you believe in the rapture or not...you wont know the day nor hour...and that is in the bible, and boom...the eastern sky is split...that is all fact
8/30/2011 3:58:36 PM
BTT 
not letting this one scroll off page 4
Noah and his family were spared from God's wrath aka 'raptured' - not the other way around. The text is correct.
not letting this one scroll off page 4
Originally Posted By marko16:
What is striking in the quoted Matthew text is that millenialists ignore the first part of the text. It states that as in the time of Noah so it shall be at the end of time. With Noah, the condemed were "raptured", but the saved were not. This view that the two working and one taken away assumes the saved person was taken away. So that would not be the same as the time of Noah making the text incorrect. Either way Christ will return and with the Grace of God all our missunderstandings will be forgiven.
What is striking in the quoted Matthew text is that millenialists ignore the first part of the text. It states that as in the time of Noah so it shall be at the end of time. With Noah, the condemed were "raptured", but the saved were not. This view that the two working and one taken away assumes the saved person was taken away. So that would not be the same as the time of Noah making the text incorrect. Either way Christ will return and with the Grace of God all our missunderstandings will be forgiven.
Noah and his family were spared from God's wrath aka 'raptured' - not the other way around. The text is correct.
9/4/2011 9:46:17 PM
Originally Posted By gregw45:
1 Thessalonians 4:15 -17 describes Judgment Day the rapture, but gotta side with a pre-trib rapture here. A problem arises when people read "no man knows the day or hour". If Jesus is coming in the clouds at the end of the tribulation, anyone who can count down 7 years (or 3.5 years from the mid-trib Abomination of Desolation) will know exactly HIS return. Daniel 12 gives the exact number of days.
1 Thessalonians 4:15 -17 describes Judgment Day the rapture, but gotta side with a pre-trib rapture here. A problem arises when people read "no man knows the day or hour". If Jesus is coming in the clouds at the end of the tribulation, anyone who can count down 7 years (or 3.5 years from the mid-trib Abomination of Desolation) will know exactly HIS return. Daniel 12 gives the exact number of days.
Yes, tha Bible says that, and I believe that no man knows the day or hour. The Bible also says that Jesus doesn't even know. However, that was 2000 years ago. Jesus most certainly knows that information now.
As the time of the second coming gets closer, meaning that it will happen within weeks, or days, not years, I believe that believing people will know that it is about to happen. Isn't there some scripture about 2 prophets in Israel? It will be three years from the time they begin preaching, an easy countdown to the approximate time.
9/5/2011 5:58:50 AM
The 'no man knows' phrase has a triple meaning. It's an ancient Jewish idiom which refers to the...
1) future wedding day of a bride and groom.
2) Feast of Trumpets which takes place over the course of two days on the new moon (other feasts take place on full moons)
3) rapture - a combination of #1 and #2 when Jesus appears in the clouds to call his bride to Him.
It just so happens that the Feast of Trumpets of 2011 occurs on Sept 29 and 30.
Does that mean something prophetic will happen in 4 weeks? I don't know, but Joel 3:2 says "I will also gather all nations, and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat; and I will enter into judgment with them there on account of My people, My heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations; they have also divided up My land. "
The bold text above, I believe, is a reference to the creation of a Palestinian state.
According to this article, the vote for statehood is September 20th.
The USA stated in the past the it would veto such an action, but sent this warning shot across Israel's bow: linkaroo "According to the Israeli diplomats cited in the Yediot report, they were told that if Israel does not comply with Clinton's request to apologize to Turkey, the White House may suddenly find itself unable to continue building opposition to a unilateral Palestinian declaration of statehood at the UN next month."
It's close brother.
1) future wedding day of a bride and groom.
2) Feast of Trumpets which takes place over the course of two days on the new moon (other feasts take place on full moons)
3) rapture - a combination of #1 and #2 when Jesus appears in the clouds to call his bride to Him.
It just so happens that the Feast of Trumpets of 2011 occurs on Sept 29 and 30.
Does that mean something prophetic will happen in 4 weeks? I don't know, but Joel 3:2 says "I will also gather all nations, and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat; and I will enter into judgment with them there on account of My people, My heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations; they have also divided up My land. "
The bold text above, I believe, is a reference to the creation of a Palestinian state.
According to this article, the vote for statehood is September 20th.
The USA stated in the past the it would veto such an action, but sent this warning shot across Israel's bow: linkaroo "According to the Israeli diplomats cited in the Yediot report, they were told that if Israel does not comply with Clinton's request to apologize to Turkey, the White House may suddenly find itself unable to continue building opposition to a unilateral Palestinian declaration of statehood at the UN next month."
It's close brother.
9/6/2011 4:04:47 PM
The "secret rapture" notion of J. N. Darby and Edward Irving, the fathers of modern dispensationalism, is very popular today, but it is not scriptural.
I repeat:
The history of the church has always had more than its share of false teachers who claim to have calculated and determined the time when Jesus will return in glory and judge mankind. While they may reach their conclusions in different ways, they all have one thing in common: they are false teachers and do not deserve our attention.
Jesus repeatedly emphasized that we are constantly and continuously to remain alert and prepared for the Last Day. That's ultimately all we know and need to know other than this: We are properly prepared for Christ's second coming when we know and rely on what he did for us at his first coming. Never are we instructed to calculate past dates of events (e.g., creation, the flood, Christ's crucifixion and resurrection), and never are we encouraged to calculate the future date of judgment day. Nowhere in the Bible are we given adequate information to enable us to do such things.
In other words, there is no validity to the subjective and irresponsible teachings of any date-setters.
Satan is delighted whenever Christians are misled by error or persuaded to focus inappropriate attention on worthless ideas at the expense of Bible truths including its central message about our sinfulness and our Savior Jesus Christ. Don't be a victim.
I repeat:
Scripture talks about believers being gathered to Christ on judgment day, but not about a secret rapture at an earlier time (Matthew 24, 1 Thessalonians 4). The being "caught up" that is described and taught in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 is an event that will take place on the last day. Matthew 24:41 needs to be understood in its complete context. Earlier in this chapter Jesus said that at his second coming the world will be destroyed (Matthew 24:29). In Matthew 24:31 he said the angels will gather the elect to be with him. Then in Jesus indicated that not everyone is among the elect, so as the elect are gathered, their immediate neighbors who are not the elect will not be taken to be with Jesus (Matthew 24:40,41). In Matthew 24:51, Matthew 25:10-12, Matthew 25:30, and Matthew 25:31-46 (especially v.46) Jesus explained what will happen to the others who are not gathered with the elect.
The history of the church has always had more than its share of false teachers who claim to have calculated and determined the time when Jesus will return in glory and judge mankind. While they may reach their conclusions in different ways, they all have one thing in common: they are false teachers and do not deserve our attention.
Jesus repeatedly emphasized that we are constantly and continuously to remain alert and prepared for the Last Day. That's ultimately all we know and need to know other than this: We are properly prepared for Christ's second coming when we know and rely on what he did for us at his first coming. Never are we instructed to calculate past dates of events (e.g., creation, the flood, Christ's crucifixion and resurrection), and never are we encouraged to calculate the future date of judgment day. Nowhere in the Bible are we given adequate information to enable us to do such things.
In other words, there is no validity to the subjective and irresponsible teachings of any date-setters.
Satan is delighted whenever Christians are misled by error or persuaded to focus inappropriate attention on worthless ideas at the expense of Bible truths including its central message about our sinfulness and our Savior Jesus Christ. Don't be a victim.
9/11/2011 7:32:26 PM
Scripture talks about believers being gathered to Christ on judgment day, but not about a secret rapture at an earlier time (Matthew 24, 1 Thessalonians 4). The being "caught up" that is described and taught in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 is an event that will take place on the last day.
Keep reading. The Bible speaking of the Day of The LORD: 1 Thessalonians 5:3 "For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them" There's no mention of peace in the Tribulation or Great Tribulation other than the broken peace treaty mentioned in Ezekiel 38 (mid point in the tribulation).
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 points to a pre-trib rapture.
As an aside, the annual International Day of Peace is set for Sept 21st, the day after the UN is supposed to vote on Palestinian statehood.
Thanks for quoting Matthew 25! The parable of the wise and foolish virgins, a perfect parallel to my post above about the coming bridegroom.
edit for clarity
9/11/2011 9:03:51 PM
Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years.
Please watch this interesting video about Israel and solar & lunar eclipses before going any further. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baBRvkCARkY 6 parts total, but parts 1 through 3 are enough to grasp what he's talking about.
Cliffs notes: Pastor Mark Biltz discovers an eclipse pattern that appears to correspond with historical Israeli events. What separates these eclipse patterns from others is that they fall on Jewish Holy Days.
It's hard to visualize what Pastor Biltz is describing, but two pictures help illustrate... The pic on the right shows the 2014 & 2015 eclipses he describes in the video - the pic on the left is one I stumbled across to show what occurred in 2011 (more on that later).
The 3 year difference between the two pictures piqued my interest because as most are aware, the 7 year tribulation is broken into two 3.5 year periods. The youtube interview was recorded in 2008 and you can tell the participants were doing the math in their heads to reach 2015 .
Obviously nothing happened in 2008, but the professionally illustrated chart made me look for similar works. This is what I found:
2000 years of lunar tetrads
and a detailed view of the last 12 years showing a peculiar eclipse pattern bracketing a 7 year period:
What's interesting about 12 year diagram showing the 2014/2015 tetrad is that it expands on the first 2 side-by-side pictures above by showing there's another identical eclipse cluster 7 years from the 2011 cluster in 2018 with the 2014/2015 tetrad exactly in between. You can verify the accuracy of the chart yourself at http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse.html
Jesus fulfilled the Spring feasts, is there any reason he will not also fulfill the fall feasts?
If Jesus' pattern of fulfilling feasts at the set times continues, we should pay attention to the Feast of Trumpets and Yom Kippur. Feast of Trumpets 2011 is observed on Sept 29 and 30 to observe the appearance of the new moon.
To take these eclipses seriously as pointing to an 'end time' 7 year period, it would be helpful to know if they fit the times listed in Daniel 12.
Starting with the new moon which begins on September 27th according to http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/phase/phases2001.html we add 1260 days described in Daniel 12:7 (a time, times, and half a time = 3.5 x 360 days) and come to March 10, 2015, just 10 days before of the Solar Eclipse Mark Biltz speaks about in the video. Verify it yourself
It will be visible over Israel
Add another 1290 days as specified in Daniel 12:11 and you end up on Sept 19, 2018 which just happens to be Yom Kippur. You can check they days yourself http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_holidays_2000%E2%80%932050
Interesting indeed... and I'd wager NOT coincidence.
Please watch this interesting video about Israel and solar & lunar eclipses before going any further. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baBRvkCARkY 6 parts total, but parts 1 through 3 are enough to grasp what he's talking about.
Cliffs notes: Pastor Mark Biltz discovers an eclipse pattern that appears to correspond with historical Israeli events. What separates these eclipse patterns from others is that they fall on Jewish Holy Days.
It's hard to visualize what Pastor Biltz is describing, but two pictures help illustrate... The pic on the right shows the 2014 & 2015 eclipses he describes in the video - the pic on the left is one I stumbled across to show what occurred in 2011 (more on that later).
The 3 year difference between the two pictures piqued my interest because as most are aware, the 7 year tribulation is broken into two 3.5 year periods. The youtube interview was recorded in 2008 and you can tell the participants were doing the math in their heads to reach 2015 .
Obviously nothing happened in 2008, but the professionally illustrated chart made me look for similar works. This is what I found:
2000 years of lunar tetrads
and a detailed view of the last 12 years showing a peculiar eclipse pattern bracketing a 7 year period:
What's interesting about 12 year diagram showing the 2014/2015 tetrad is that it expands on the first 2 side-by-side pictures above by showing there's another identical eclipse cluster 7 years from the 2011 cluster in 2018 with the 2014/2015 tetrad exactly in between. You can verify the accuracy of the chart yourself at http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse.html
Jesus fulfilled the Spring feasts, is there any reason he will not also fulfill the fall feasts?
If Jesus' pattern of fulfilling feasts at the set times continues, we should pay attention to the Feast of Trumpets and Yom Kippur. Feast of Trumpets 2011 is observed on Sept 29 and 30 to observe the appearance of the new moon.
To take these eclipses seriously as pointing to an 'end time' 7 year period, it would be helpful to know if they fit the times listed in Daniel 12.
Starting with the new moon which begins on September 27th according to http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/phase/phases2001.html we add 1260 days described in Daniel 12:7 (a time, times, and half a time = 3.5 x 360 days) and come to March 10, 2015, just 10 days before of the Solar Eclipse Mark Biltz speaks about in the video. Verify it yourself
It will be visible over Israel
Add another 1290 days as specified in Daniel 12:11 and you end up on Sept 19, 2018 which just happens to be Yom Kippur. You can check they days yourself http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_holidays_2000%E2%80%932050
Interesting indeed... and I'd wager NOT coincidence.
9/13/2011 6:39:15 AM
I was raised in a church that believed in the Pre-trib rapture accepted it my entire childhood. As an adult, I left that church and went to another. I was shocked the first time someone said there was no pre-trib rapture. I have spent years now studying this topic and I now believe that the early church, Ireneaus and others, had the correct understanding. It's all the later people who got it wrong.
There will be a rapture, it will be on the Day of the Lord. It will be a time of gathering of his entire bride for our wedding day, in Jerusalem.
It was the African church, and all it's Greek influences, that invented the notion that Revelation could be taken non-literally. They gave us this Amillennialism. It isn't what the disciples believed.
The notion of a Rapture separate from The day of the Lord is a very new teaching. It was clearly started in the 1830's by a Scottish preacher named Edward Irving. It was picked up later by another Scot named John Nelson Darby. It was made popular by by the Scofield reference bible. No one was preaching that before September 1830.
I would encourage anyone to look into the spiritualism going on in the early 19th century, Mormonism, Jehovah witness, the early Pentecostals, etc. all came from that era.I am very leery of any new teaching that came from that time.Too many hucksters and hoaxes.
There will be a rapture, it will be on the Day of the Lord. It will be a time of gathering of his entire bride for our wedding day, in Jerusalem.
It was the African church, and all it's Greek influences, that invented the notion that Revelation could be taken non-literally. They gave us this Amillennialism. It isn't what the disciples believed.
The notion of a Rapture separate from The day of the Lord is a very new teaching. It was clearly started in the 1830's by a Scottish preacher named Edward Irving. It was picked up later by another Scot named John Nelson Darby. It was made popular by by the Scofield reference bible. No one was preaching that before September 1830.
I would encourage anyone to look into the spiritualism going on in the early 19th century, Mormonism, Jehovah witness, the early Pentecostals, etc. all came from that era.I am very leery of any new teaching that came from that time.Too many hucksters and hoaxes.
