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Pre Tribulation Rapture is NOT BIBLICAL.
3/4/2012 1:24:41 AM
The Rapture spoken of in
1 Thessalonians 4 is
"AT THE LAST TRUMP"
-1 Corinthians 15:52
Mark 13
Matthew 24
and many other scriptures.
The
Wrath of GOD is filled up in the vials not the Trumpets.
see:
Revelation 15 and 16.
The servants of GOD are sealed during the Trumpets
see:
Revelation 7 and 9.
1 Thessalonians 4 is
"AT THE LAST TRUMP"
-1 Corinthians 15:52
Mark 13
Matthew 24
and many other scriptures.
The
Wrath of GOD is filled up in the vials not the Trumpets.
see:
Revelation 15 and 16.
The servants of GOD are sealed during the Trumpets
see:
Revelation 7 and 9.
3/4/2012 1:47:55 AM
Pre-Trib, Mid-Trib, Post-Trib, Immersion, Sprinkling, Once Saved/Always Saved, Snake Handling, Predestination....other topics for stirring the pot.
3/4/2012 2:24:44 AM
Let me preface my response by saying that it really doesn't matter when the rapture will take place with respect to the tribulation. God will call us up and that's good enough for me. Even if you disagree with me, let's love each other anyways. In the grand scheme of things, arguing over pre/mid/post-tribulation rapture amounts to nothing. I can't judge your motive for starting this thread (and I'm not directing this statement at you personally but rather to anyone else reading), but don't boil a kid in his mother's milk. In other words, don't take that which was meant to bring life (the scriptures) and use it for destruction.
Again, God didn't call us to agree on every doctrine but to love one another. The true mark of love is that we are able to love in spite of what we disagree on. Study over the scriptures, and pray that God will give you understanding as to their meaning because without Him there is no revelation.
3/4/2012 5:31:09 AM
Context is ALL of GODS WORD.
Matthew 24 is the same trumpet as the Last Trump and is the same seventh Trumpet of Revelation which is when time is no longer and the last day JOHN 6:40 and the saints are rewarded.
This is important ,why do you think so much money is behind the left behind propaganda machine?
Believing the unbiblical pre-trib rapture doctrine will leave sheeple ripe for
"strong delusion" and thats what the
enemy wants isnt it?
THE LORD JESUS CHRIST says the elect are gathered after the tribulation and at the trumpet in Matthew 24 and Mark 13 and Luke 21.
Matthew 24 is the same trumpet as the Last Trump and is the same seventh Trumpet of Revelation which is when time is no longer and the last day JOHN 6:40 and the saints are rewarded.
This is important ,why do you think so much money is behind the left behind propaganda machine?
Believing the unbiblical pre-trib rapture doctrine will leave sheeple ripe for
"strong delusion" and thats what the
enemy wants isnt it?
THE LORD JESUS CHRIST says the elect are gathered after the tribulation and at the trumpet in Matthew 24 and Mark 13 and Luke 21.
3/4/2012 9:29:29 AM
Originally Posted By jayhanfosho:
In 1 Corinthians 15:52, 'at the last trumpet' does not refer to the trumpet in Revelation. Corinthians was written 40 years before Revelation. The church would be confused about the last trumpet. In 1 Thessalonians 4:16, the trumpet mentioned is not the same trumpet mentioned in Revelation (trumpet of God versus the seventh angel's trumpet). The trumpet in Revelation 11:15 releases great judgement on the earth. The last trumpet in 1 Corinthians 15 and 1 Thessalonians 4 raises the dead. Also, there is a trumpet after the tribulation seventh trumpet (Matthew 24:15,21,29-31. In verse 31, this trumpet comes after the seventh trumpet in Revelation. The last trumpet of 1 Corinthians 15 is the trumpet of God). The last trumpet in 1 Corinthians 15 is the last trumpet of its context.
Let me preface my response by saying that it really doesn't matter when the rapture will take place with respect to the tribulation. God will call us up and that's good enough for me. Even if you disagree with me, let's love each other anyways. In the grand scheme of things, arguing over pre/mid/post-tribulation rapture amounts to nothing. I can't judge your motive for starting this thread (and I'm not directing this statement at you personally but rather to anyone else reading), but don't boil a kid in his mother's milk. In other words, don't take that which was meant to bring life (the scriptures) and use it for destruction.
Again, God didn't call us to agree on every doctrine but to love one another. The true mark of love is that we are able to love in spite of what we disagree on. Study over the scriptures, and pray that God will give you understanding as to their meaning because without Him there is no revelation.
I dont necessarily believe in/understand the rapture, in the way my Baptist friends have. That said I very much agree with your last paragraph. I believe God is going to find mercy for all of us who love one another and love Him and His word. There is simply too much there for all of us to come to the same conclusion on everything.
I believe God sent His Son to die for us, and I am grateful for that.
3/4/2012 2:11:18 PM
Originally Posted By VictorUnit:
Context is ALL of GODS WORD.
Matthew 24 is the same trumpet as the Last Trump and is the same seventh Trumpet of Revelation which is when time is no longer and the last day JOHN 6:40 and the saints are rewarded.
This is important ,why do you think so much money is behind the left behind propaganda machine?
Believing the unbiblical pre-trib rapture doctrine will leave sheeple ripe for
"strong delusion" and thats what the
enemy wants isnt it?
THE LORD JESUS CHRIST says the elect are gathered after the tribulation and at the trumpet in Matthew 24 and Mark 13 and Luke 21.
Context is ALL of GODS WORD.
Matthew 24 is the same trumpet as the Last Trump and is the same seventh Trumpet of Revelation which is when time is no longer and the last day JOHN 6:40 and the saints are rewarded.
This is important ,why do you think so much money is behind the left behind propaganda machine?
Believing the unbiblical pre-trib rapture doctrine will leave sheeple ripe for
"strong delusion" and thats what the
enemy wants isnt it?
THE LORD JESUS CHRIST says the elect are gathered after the tribulation and at the trumpet in Matthew 24 and Mark 13 and Luke 21.
I have to agree that you need to take the entire Bible in consideration when reading the Bible. Many things in the Old Testament only make sense after reading the New Testament. I also have to agree with the point on delusion. Any heresy is dangerous and while a misunderstanding of the Bible isn't automatic damnation it could easily lead someone astray enough for them to be in danger.
Dispensationalism
A heresy practiced by many Protestant groups, Dispensationalism is a form of premillennialism which narrates Biblical history as a number of successive "economies" or "administrations," called "dispensations." Each of these dispensations emphasizes the discontinuity of the covenants of God made with His various peoples.
History
Dispensationalism was born from the Protestant environs of England and Ireland, developed by the Plymouth Brethren movement under the teachings of John Nelson Darby (1800-1882). Darby built on a number of themes that were common with radical Calvinists and Evangelicals in the early 19th century; however, he elaborated a more complex system for interpreting the Bible than his predecessors.
Dispensationalism was brought to the Americas by John Inglis, where it continued to flourish through the teachings of James H. Brookes, Dwight L. Moody (founder of the Moody Bible Institute), and Cyrus Scofield (author of the Scofield Study Bible).
Famous American advocates of Dispensationalism include Charles Ryrie, Hal Lindsey, John Hagee, and authors of the Left Behind series, Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins.
Teachings
Unlike the belief of the Church which teaches that itself, as Christ’s spouse, is the New Jerusalem and God’s chosen people through its union with Jesus Christ, Dispensationalists believe that the Christian Church is an interruption in God’s divine contract with the Jewish people. They believe that the Gospel began to be preached to the Gentiles, however, God’s continued care for the Jewish people will be revealed after the end of the “Church’s Dispensation,” when the Jews shall be restored to their land, and they shall accept Christ as the Messiah. Hence, Dispensationalists believe that there is one mode of salvation for Gentiles, and another for Jews. This goes against the soteriology taught by the Church, which says that Christ came to save all regardless of ethnic background.
Because of this, many Dispensationalists are advocates of Zionism, the Jewish nationalist movement.
Some Christian Dispensationalists have taken to not only supporting the state of Israel, but also observing traditional Jewish holidays, keeping Kosher standards, and practicing Jewish religious rituals. It should be noted that this practice has been condemned by the Holy Apostles (especially in Paul's Epistle to the Galatians) and Church Fathers throughout the centuries, including Ignatius of Antioch and John Chrysostom, both of whom were ardent opponents of Judaizing.
Dispensationalists also advocate other questionable teachings, especially in their interpretation of eschatology. For example, many believe in the Rapture, an event occurring before the Second Coming of Christ where all Christians of true belief are assumed into Heaven, and the Time of Tribulation, a period ruled by a draconian, demonic figure called the Antichrist, where those who were not taken up must find correct belief before the Final Judgment.
link
A heresy practiced by many Protestant groups, Dispensationalism is a form of premillennialism which narrates Biblical history as a number of successive "economies" or "administrations," called "dispensations." Each of these dispensations emphasizes the discontinuity of the covenants of God made with His various peoples.
History
Dispensationalism was born from the Protestant environs of England and Ireland, developed by the Plymouth Brethren movement under the teachings of John Nelson Darby (1800-1882). Darby built on a number of themes that were common with radical Calvinists and Evangelicals in the early 19th century; however, he elaborated a more complex system for interpreting the Bible than his predecessors.
Dispensationalism was brought to the Americas by John Inglis, where it continued to flourish through the teachings of James H. Brookes, Dwight L. Moody (founder of the Moody Bible Institute), and Cyrus Scofield (author of the Scofield Study Bible).
Famous American advocates of Dispensationalism include Charles Ryrie, Hal Lindsey, John Hagee, and authors of the Left Behind series, Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins.
Teachings
Unlike the belief of the Church which teaches that itself, as Christ’s spouse, is the New Jerusalem and God’s chosen people through its union with Jesus Christ, Dispensationalists believe that the Christian Church is an interruption in God’s divine contract with the Jewish people. They believe that the Gospel began to be preached to the Gentiles, however, God’s continued care for the Jewish people will be revealed after the end of the “Church’s Dispensation,” when the Jews shall be restored to their land, and they shall accept Christ as the Messiah. Hence, Dispensationalists believe that there is one mode of salvation for Gentiles, and another for Jews. This goes against the soteriology taught by the Church, which says that Christ came to save all regardless of ethnic background.
Because of this, many Dispensationalists are advocates of Zionism, the Jewish nationalist movement.
Some Christian Dispensationalists have taken to not only supporting the state of Israel, but also observing traditional Jewish holidays, keeping Kosher standards, and practicing Jewish religious rituals. It should be noted that this practice has been condemned by the Holy Apostles (especially in Paul's Epistle to the Galatians) and Church Fathers throughout the centuries, including Ignatius of Antioch and John Chrysostom, both of whom were ardent opponents of Judaizing.
Dispensationalists also advocate other questionable teachings, especially in their interpretation of eschatology. For example, many believe in the Rapture, an event occurring before the Second Coming of Christ where all Christians of true belief are assumed into Heaven, and the Time of Tribulation, a period ruled by a draconian, demonic figure called the Antichrist, where those who were not taken up must find correct belief before the Final Judgment.
3/4/2012 7:13:41 PM
Don't subscribe to the "rapture" as some churches put it. But I have had a couple of good men in my circle of family/friends die recently. Makes me wonder why Nancy Pelosi and Harry Ried are still here and they are not
3/4/2012 9:11:52 PM
Originally Posted By VictorUnit:
Context is ALL of GODS WORD.
Matthew 24 is the same trumpet as the Last Trump and is the same seventh Trumpet of Revelation which is when time is no longer and the last day JOHN 6:40 and the saints are rewarded.
This is important ,why do you think so much money is behind the left behind propaganda machine?
Believing the unbiblical pre-trib rapture doctrine will leave sheeple ripe for
"strong delusion" and thats what the
enemy wants isnt it?
THE LORD JESUS CHRIST says the elect are gathered after the tribulation and at the trumpet in Matthew 24 and Mark 13 and Luke 21.
Context is ALL of GODS WORD.
Matthew 24 is the same trumpet as the Last Trump and is the same seventh Trumpet of Revelation which is when time is no longer and the last day JOHN 6:40 and the saints are rewarded.
This is important ,why do you think so much money is behind the left behind propaganda machine?
Believing the unbiblical pre-trib rapture doctrine will leave sheeple ripe for
"strong delusion" and thats what the
enemy wants isnt it?
THE LORD JESUS CHRIST says the elect are gathered after the tribulation and at the trumpet in Matthew 24 and Mark 13 and Luke 21.
You are right, Context is important. The context of Matthew 24, Luke 21, and Mark 13 is when will the temple be destroyed (see the apostle's question) and that it would happen before that generation passed away. Since that tribulation happened in AD70, you are correct that the elect will be gathered after that tribulation.
3/4/2012 9:39:03 PM
If you read Scripture and take it literally,remember that God has always taken His people out before His wrath(not judgement there is a difference) occurs,-i.e.-Noah and family,Lot and his family etc.-just some food for thought.
3/4/2012 11:54:15 PM
Originally Posted By victor71:
If you read Scripture and take it literally,remember that God has always taken His people out before His wrath(not judgement there is a difference) occurs,-i.e.-Noah and family,Lot and his family etc.-just some food for thought.
If you read Scripture and take it literally,remember that God has always taken His people out before His wrath(not judgement there is a difference) occurs,-i.e.-Noah and family,Lot and his family etc.-just some food for thought.
Exactly.
the Wrath of GOD is filled up in the vials NOT the trumpets.Rev15&16
Also the elect are sealed during the trumpets Rev 7&9.
This seems to be a similar situation to the Jews in Egypt during the plagues before the Exodus.
The powers of heaven will be shaken before the Last Trump.
This is consistent with the Trumpets.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEqnkL40Jag
