Archived Posts » 59,699,509
Have you seen this yet? The Shrine is Clandestine!
11/28/2011 11:04:43 AM
I just read this, any input?
The Shrine is now Clandestine?
In a nut shell :
The Grand Master of Michigan, MW Frederick E. Kaiser, Jr., has withdrawn official recognition of the Shrine there, and it has been declared clandestine and illegal. Michigan Masons may not attend tyled Shrine meetings in that state.
The word "shit-storm" comes to mind...
The Shrine is now Clandestine?
In a nut shell :
The Grand Master of Michigan, MW Frederick E. Kaiser, Jr., has withdrawn official recognition of the Shrine there, and it has been declared clandestine and illegal. Michigan Masons may not attend tyled Shrine meetings in that state.
The word "shit-storm" comes to mind...
11/28/2011 11:53:05 AM
From the article it looks like the Shrine has no one to blame but themselves.
11/28/2011 12:56:32 PM
He plead Guilty to the charges.. It appears the Shrine is so selfish, they'll let it happen.
With that said, I'm not in the shrine, but can't they just give him the boot? (for the greater good?) Or is this inbreeding?
With that said, I'm not in the shrine, but can't they just give him the boot? (for the greater good?) Or is this inbreeding?
11/28/2011 1:03:49 PM
The man is a criminal.Why would you want a criminal siiting next to you?They played a stupid game and got a stupid prize!
11/28/2011 10:44:26 PM
Originally Posted By clamman:
The man is a criminal.Why would you want a criminal siiting next to you?They played a stupid game and got a stupid prize!
The man is a criminal.Why would you want a criminal siiting next to you?They played a stupid game and got a stupid prize!
Right here......if you plead guilty you have admitted to committing a crime, plain and simple.
11/29/2011 8:25:23 AM
I wish there was information available about the actual incident. I've heard numerous stories over the years of people who were busted on gambling charges that were a stretch of the law, to say the least. Think of Sal Culosi.
The Shrine didn't see it as a problem. I wonder who is in the wrong here.
The Shrine didn't see it as a problem. I wonder who is in the wrong here.
11/29/2011 9:10:31 AM
Ummm how can he be a member of the shrine if his blue lodge affiliation has been pulled. isn't that a requirement for membership?
11/29/2011 9:27:30 AM
As I may be returning to Motown soon, I am VERY interested in this being resolved. Blue Lodge first, but I find the Shrine being able to help kids being something that means a LOT to me.
Prayers out for an amenable and speedy resolution.
Prayers out for an amenable and speedy resolution.
11/29/2011 9:45:59 AM
i may be mistaken but i am told here the appendent bodies are allowed to operate only at the discretion of the GL. The Shrine appears to have ignored their own rules allowing a mason not in good standing to remain not only as a member but as an officer of the shrine. Right or Wrong the Shrine appears to have had a duty to remove him and then challenge the GM decision if they felt it was wrong.
This kind of stuff is why i have no desire to join the shrine. I have seen a LOT of childish stupidity within the one here and it seems like the shrine is full of drama queens. Our lodge here has had to deal with stupidity/drama that started in the shrine and spilled out to the lodges as well. i seriously respect the charity the shrine does, but i have not been happy with the image i have been given as a non member. Every day i hear about infighting within the internal clubs and people stirring shit over there.
I really hope that gets worked out. the loss of MI will be a blow to an organization that really does do some great things.
This kind of stuff is why i have no desire to join the shrine. I have seen a LOT of childish stupidity within the one here and it seems like the shrine is full of drama queens. Our lodge here has had to deal with stupidity/drama that started in the shrine and spilled out to the lodges as well. i seriously respect the charity the shrine does, but i have not been happy with the image i have been given as a non member. Every day i hear about infighting within the internal clubs and people stirring shit over there.
I really hope that gets worked out. the loss of MI will be a blow to an organization that really does do some great things.
11/30/2011 8:43:16 AM
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
I really hope that gets worked out. the loss of MI will be a blow to an organization that really does do some great things.
I really hope that gets worked out. the loss of MI will be a blow to an organization that really does do some great things.
Agreed
11/30/2011 9:57:23 AM
Seems the Imperial Potentate put up a stink because the person is question was the sitting Potentate of that Shrine. Still in all, his state, his rules M:.W:. GM FTW with a fatality!!!!
11/30/2011 10:23:05 AM
reading through all that stuff i think the GM was correct. the shrine broke their own rules in allowing a suspended/expelled mason to remain not only in the organization but as a sitting officer. Not sure how MI rules are but here on his conviction the GM would have had no choice but to do the same thing.
11/30/2011 1:08:48 PM
I wonder what kind of effect this will have.
I have heard quietly that the Shrine was considering dropping the MM requirement and becoming a stand alone entity to increase the membership.
But honestly I am under-informed, I'm just happy to be a Grotto member instead.
Raise a little hell, to raise a lot of money, for the children. (our motto)
I have heard quietly that the Shrine was considering dropping the MM requirement and becoming a stand alone entity to increase the membership.
But honestly I am under-informed, I'm just happy to be a Grotto member instead.
Raise a little hell, to raise a lot of money, for the children. (our motto)
11/30/2011 1:24:59 PM
that was the topic of discussion at lodge last night. apparently this has happened before in other areas. i think mississippi was mentioned?
i have little desire to participate at the shrine beyond the charity stuff, if they drop the MM requirement i can promise i would never join. of course from what i see here even the MM requirement doesn't seem to mean much
.
i swear it's like these guys join the shrine and the stupid level jacks up about 90%.
i mean no disrepect to the shriners here. these are simply my observations as a blue lodge guy that has had to deal with a good deal of stupidity that started at the shrine and worked it's way outside to the lodges. the infighting between units i have seen and heard about really bothers me.
i have little desire to participate at the shrine beyond the charity stuff, if they drop the MM requirement i can promise i would never join. of course from what i see here even the MM requirement doesn't seem to mean much
.
i swear it's like these guys join the shrine and the stupid level jacks up about 90%.
i mean no disrepect to the shriners here. these are simply my observations as a blue lodge guy that has had to deal with a good deal of stupidity that started at the shrine and worked it's way outside to the lodges. the infighting between units i have seen and heard about really bothers me.
11/30/2011 3:26:00 PM
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
that was the topic of discussion at lodge last night. apparently this has happened before in other areas. i think mississippi was mentioned?
i have little desire to participate at the shrine beyond the charity stuff, if they drop the MM requirement i can promise i would never join. of course from what i see here even the MM requirement doesn't seem to mean much.
i swear it's like these guys join the shrine and the stupid level jacks up about 90%.
i mean no disrepect to the shriners here. these are simply my observations as a blue lodge guy that has had to deal with a good deal of stupidity that started at the shrine and worked it's way outside to the lodges. the infighting between units i have seen and heard about really bothers me.
that was the topic of discussion at lodge last night. apparently this has happened before in other areas. i think mississippi was mentioned?
i have little desire to participate at the shrine beyond the charity stuff, if they drop the MM requirement i can promise i would never join. of course from what i see here even the MM requirement doesn't seem to mean much
.
i swear it's like these guys join the shrine and the stupid level jacks up about 90%.
i mean no disrepect to the shriners here. these are simply my observations as a blue lodge guy that has had to deal with a good deal of stupidity that started at the shrine and worked it's way outside to the lodges. the infighting between units i have seen and heard about really bothers me.
I was considering joining......but I think that I will concentrate on York Rite and Scottish Rite
11/30/2011 3:59:57 PM
Originally Posted By IronMedic:
I was considering joining......but I think that I will concentrate on York Rite and Scottish Rite
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
that was the topic of discussion at lodge last night. apparently this has happened before in other areas. i think mississippi was mentioned?
i have little desire to participate at the shrine beyond the charity stuff, if they drop the MM requirement i can promise i would never join. of course from what i see here even the MM requirement doesn't seem to mean much.
i swear it's like these guys join the shrine and the stupid level jacks up about 90%.
i mean no disrepect to the shriners here. these are simply my observations as a blue lodge guy that has had to deal with a good deal of stupidity that started at the shrine and worked it's way outside to the lodges. the infighting between units i have seen and heard about really bothers me.
that was the topic of discussion at lodge last night. apparently this has happened before in other areas. i think mississippi was mentioned?
i have little desire to participate at the shrine beyond the charity stuff, if they drop the MM requirement i can promise i would never join. of course from what i see here even the MM requirement doesn't seem to mean much
.
i swear it's like these guys join the shrine and the stupid level jacks up about 90%.
i mean no disrepect to the shriners here. these are simply my observations as a blue lodge guy that has had to deal with a good deal of stupidity that started at the shrine and worked it's way outside to the lodges. the infighting between units i have seen and heard about really bothers me.
I was considering joining......but I think that I will concentrate on York Rite and Scottish Rite
don't let my jaded opinion sway you. the shrine does some great work and i am sure the local bunch here is not a fair representation of the whole organization. i have a lot of friends in the shrine and there are some good men and masons there.
11/30/2011 9:53:32 PM
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
don't let my jaded opinion sway you. the shrine does some great work and i am sure the local bunch here is not a fair representation of the whole organization. i have a lot of friends in the shrine and there are some good men and masons there.
Originally Posted By IronMedic:
I was considering joining......but I think that I will concentrate on York Rite and Scottish Rite
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
that was the topic of discussion at lodge last night. apparently this has happened before in other areas. i think mississippi was mentioned?
i have little desire to participate at the shrine beyond the charity stuff, if they drop the MM requirement i can promise i would never join. of course from what i see here even the MM requirement doesn't seem to mean much.
i swear it's like these guys join the shrine and the stupid level jacks up about 90%.
i mean no disrepect to the shriners here. these are simply my observations as a blue lodge guy that has had to deal with a good deal of stupidity that started at the shrine and worked it's way outside to the lodges. the infighting between units i have seen and heard about really bothers me.
that was the topic of discussion at lodge last night. apparently this has happened before in other areas. i think mississippi was mentioned?
i have little desire to participate at the shrine beyond the charity stuff, if they drop the MM requirement i can promise i would never join. of course from what i see here even the MM requirement doesn't seem to mean much
.
i swear it's like these guys join the shrine and the stupid level jacks up about 90%.
i mean no disrepect to the shriners here. these are simply my observations as a blue lodge guy that has had to deal with a good deal of stupidity that started at the shrine and worked it's way outside to the lodges. the infighting between units i have seen and heard about really bothers me.
I was considering joining......but I think that I will concentrate on York Rite and Scottish Rite
don't let my jaded opinion sway you. the shrine does some great work and i am sure the local bunch here is not a fair representation of the whole organization. i have a lot of friends in the shrine and there are some good men and masons there.
Nah nothing like that TBS. Just been weighing my options for my next step. I think I will head down the Scottish Rite path first......our local Director personally invited me to their annual dinner meeting as his personal guest.
12/1/2011 8:14:12 AM
Not to stir the pot further, but....
Has anyone seen a "Rusty Nail" degree for Scottish Rite, York Rite, Knight-Masons, AMD, Grotto, or Tall Cedars?
Need a medical release to do the degree?
Hot sands?
ya, "Do not want"... Just say'n
Has anyone seen a "Rusty Nail" degree for Scottish Rite, York Rite, Knight-Masons, AMD, Grotto, or Tall Cedars?
Need a medical release to do the degree?
Hot sands?
ya, "Do not want"... Just say'n
12/1/2011 9:47:33 AM
never heard of the rusty nail degree.
i believe the hot sands here are no longer used or is voluntary. although i have heard they have some other "interesting" initiation rituals.
just read through a couple of rusty nail degrees and i didn't see anything at all that would require a medical release <only looked at BL and SR>. looks like they are designed to bring a wayward brother back into the lodge by refreshing him in the work. I can't imagine there would be anything there that would give him pause to do it.
i believe the hot sands here are no longer used or is voluntary. although i have heard they have some other "interesting" initiation rituals.
just read through a couple of rusty nail degrees and i didn't see anything at all that would require a medical release <only looked at BL and SR>. looks like they are designed to bring a wayward brother back into the lodge by refreshing him in the work. I can't imagine there would be anything there that would give him pause to do it.
12/1/2011 1:24:27 PM
The medical release is used at our local Shrine for its initiation(or so I'm told) and the hot sands along with an electric bench are still in use. Not for the Rusty Nail.
My catechism coach got burns on the back of his legs from the bench and he showed me the scar. I've heard the same from others.
The rusty nail only requires a tetanus shot, and at lease in my area, are used to bring Shriner's back to Blue Lodge. My point is, no other appendant body needs to do this with most of their members. (like we have recently done.)
I, in no-way mean to belittle the charity they do, anything is better than nothing and they do a lot.
I just don't think it has anything to do with the principles of masonic teaching and brotherhood, except for the principle of charity, but I believe I maybe overstepping myself now and am possibly speaking from the NE.
It's time for me to S M P and S T F U.......
My catechism coach got burns on the back of his legs from the bench and he showed me the scar. I've heard the same from others.
The rusty nail only requires a tetanus shot, and at lease in my area, are used to bring Shriner's back to Blue Lodge. My point is, no other appendant body needs to do this with most of their members. (like we have recently done.)
I, in no-way mean to belittle the charity they do, anything is better than nothing and they do a lot.
I just don't think it has anything to do with the principles of masonic teaching and brotherhood, except for the principle of charity, but I believe I maybe overstepping myself now and am possibly speaking from the NE.
It's time for me to S M P and S T F U.......
12/1/2011 5:44:04 PM
My "Hot Sands" was completely devoid of any physical hardship whatsoever. Moolah Shrine, St. Louis.
12/1/2011 6:12:22 PM
I belong to the York Rite, and many of my Brothers and Companions are Shrine. We have a very large Boss Hog motorcycle show in my area each year and the Shrine sells raffle tickets for a bike. By the end of the day, many of them are intoxicated. I am also a Deputy Sheriff, and have had to deal with a few intoxicated Shriner's which is embarrassing. They do good charitable work, I will continue to support their causes, but Brothers please lay off the booze in public.
12/13/2011 1:53:35 PM
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
that was the topic of discussion at lodge last night. apparently this has happened before in other areas. i think mississippi was mentioned?
i have little desire to participate at the shrine beyond the charity stuff, if they drop the MM requirement i can promise i would never join. of course from what i see here even the MM requirement doesn't seem to mean much.
i swear it's like these guys join the shrine and the stupid level jacks up about 90%.
i mean no disrepect to the shriners here. these are simply my observations as a blue lodge guy that has had to deal with a good deal of stupidity that started at the shrine and worked it's way outside to the lodges. the infighting between units i have seen and heard about really bothers me.
that was the topic of discussion at lodge last night. apparently this has happened before in other areas. i think mississippi was mentioned?
i have little desire to participate at the shrine beyond the charity stuff, if they drop the MM requirement i can promise i would never join. of course from what i see here even the MM requirement doesn't seem to mean much
.
i swear it's like these guys join the shrine and the stupid level jacks up about 90%.
i mean no disrepect to the shriners here. these are simply my observations as a blue lodge guy that has had to deal with a good deal of stupidity that started at the shrine and worked it's way outside to the lodges. the infighting between units i have seen and heard about really bothers me.
I'm very active in my Shrine and will say that I have seen quite a bit of activity that was questionable. I do whisper good counsel in the ear of a falling Brother when I see it, but as with any organization, you will have a few bad apples. The Shrine seems to have the power to make good men forget their obligations. This is the main reason I'm strongly against "Hot Sands" initiations.
I really think the death knell came for the Shrine in 1999/2000 when they no longer required York/Scottish Rite membership. They are looking for bodies, no matter what the value of their character may be.
Interesting tidbit, the GL of PA once, and for several years, forbid any Mason from being a member of the Eastern Star.
12/13/2011 4:42:45 PM
We discussed this in our lodge last night. Some very interesting thoughts and comments were heard. Including the WM took a demit from Shrine after the Potentate pushed for the Shrine to buy a new mower from his company. Guess several members left after that.
12/14/2011 1:33:52 PM
we had a really bad problem here a few years ago with people getting rushed through the degrees so they could join the "country club". never attended lodge after the fact and didn't learn anything on the way through. I think the shrine is beginning to reap the benefits of those people now.
12/14/2011 3:16:05 PM
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
we had a really bad problem here a few years ago with people getting rushed through the degrees so they could join the "country club". never attended lodge after the fact and didn't learn anything on the way through. I think the shrine is beginning to reap the benefits of those people now.
we had a really bad problem here a few years ago with people getting rushed through the degrees so they could join the "country club". never attended lodge after the fact and didn't learn anything on the way through. I think the shrine is beginning to reap the benefits of those people now.
Amen to that Brother.
12/14/2011 3:33:41 PM
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
we had a really bad problem here a few years ago with people getting rushed through the degrees so they could join the "country club". never attended lodge after the fact and didn't learn anything on the way through. I think the shrine is beginning to reap the benefits of those people now.
we had a really bad problem here a few years ago with people getting rushed through the degrees so they could join the "country club". never attended lodge after the fact and didn't learn anything on the way through. I think the shrine is beginning to reap the benefits of those people now.
We removed three members from our lodge who never came back and finished their MM after 1 year plus.
12/14/2011 8:33:49 PM
Originally Posted By IronMedic:
We removed three members from our lodge who never came back and finished their MM after 1 year plus.
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
we had a really bad problem here a few years ago with people getting rushed through the degrees so they could join the "country club". never attended lodge after the fact and didn't learn anything on the way through. I think the shrine is beginning to reap the benefits of those people now.
we had a really bad problem here a few years ago with people getting rushed through the degrees so they could join the "country club". never attended lodge after the fact and didn't learn anything on the way through. I think the shrine is beginning to reap the benefits of those people now.
We removed three members from our lodge who never came back and finished their MM after 1 year plus.
You can't join any other body in MD until you finish your catechism in the 3rd.
My Lodge is 30 miles from the Shrine, so we don't have the presence at the temple. I am the only member of our Lodge that is active in the Shrine and we have 140 members. We have guys from the Shrine that I have encouraged to come to meetings at my Lodge as they are new to the area and don't have a local Lodge yet. I have tried repeatedly to get the guys to join, but in retrospect, I think that's the cool part about our Brothers. Each of them has such a zeal for the Craft that they don't see any need for anything further like the Shrine.
12/14/2011 9:35:50 PM
alabama has no requirement to give the mm lesson. few people do it anymore. i am guilty of that as well. i really need to get mine done but honestly finding an instructor for it isn't easy.
12/14/2011 10:47:33 PM
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
alabama has no requirement to give the mm lesson. few people do it anymore. i am guilty of that as well. i really need to get mine done but honestly finding an instructor for it isn't easy.
alabama has no requirement to give the mm lesson. few people do it anymore. i am guilty of that as well. i really need to get mine done but honestly finding an instructor for it isn't easy.
You don't get your full member card here until you give back your MM test. It was tough....but the brothers let me slide on a few mistakes
12/15/2011 11:51:41 AM
Originally Posted By IronMedic:
You don't get your full member card here until you give back your MM test. It was tough....but the brothers let me slide on a few mistakes
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
alabama has no requirement to give the mm lesson. few people do it anymore. i am guilty of that as well. i really need to get mine done but honestly finding an instructor for it isn't easy.
alabama has no requirement to give the mm lesson. few people do it anymore. i am guilty of that as well. i really need to get mine done but honestly finding an instructor for it isn't easy.
You don't get your full member card here until you give back your MM test. It was tough....but the brothers let me slide on a few mistakes
You cannot receive your Bible and Apron, until you return your catechism here. It's basically your loss if you don't. Then there are the three MM exams, not required, just for personal benefit and a request for Warden's to take before they go to the East. It covers all of Masonic laws, etiquette and Constitution.
I will admit, spending 6-9 months teaching an EA's through to MM's, and not have them return, does kinda suck.
12/15/2011 12:44:04 PM
Let us make no mistake. The Shriner's Hospitals for Children are among the greatest philanthropy's ever conceived.
My problem with the A.A.O.N.M.S. is that it so often detracts from the core of Freemasonry. Particularly for new Masons. They are drawn to the "social" aspect with their new Brothers, and become so involved they neglect the structure and ritual of Blue Lodge. They're so new to the fraternity, they often never really experience Freemasonry. Obviously this is not the case with all. But I feel it is enough to harm Freemasonry. Fervency for Shrine over actual Freemasonry, IMO, is indicative of society's current need for instant gratification. For the good of the order, Grand jurisdictions should never have allowed Masons to become Shriners if not having completed York or Scottish Rite. If Imperial decides to allow membership for non-Masons, IMO, every Grand jurisdiction should declare all Tiled Shrine Meetings clandestine. Again, just my opinion.
To a degree I also disagree with aspects of the A&ASR. It also is taking advantage of the "I want it now" mentality. First, a newly raised Master Mason isn't out the lodge door before a SR (and Shrine)petition(s) is thrust in his hand. Then, at least here for one weekend a year, he sees 7-9 plays and then calls himself a 32nd Degree Mason. IMO, that really only makes him a 12th degree Mason. And that's without any labor in the Craft. Again, instant gratification. Please do not think I believe there is no value in Scottish Rite. Most certainly there is. Many wonderful Masonic lessons are contained in their degrees. I disagree with how they are taught and learned. And I do not agree with granting of titles not earned.
Maybe I'm just too old school. But, to me, in Freemasonry the work is what teaches you the lessons. And the knowledge in the lessons is what makes you a better man. Not hanging out with the guys, nor being able to bolster one's self-worth with grand sounding titles I love Blue Lodge and York Rite, in large part, because you must do the work. You don't progress until your hours are wrought. And your progressive acquisition of knowledge is the wage you receive for your labor. You earn your reward, as opposed to receiving it.
My problem with the A.A.O.N.M.S. is that it so often detracts from the core of Freemasonry. Particularly for new Masons. They are drawn to the "social" aspect with their new Brothers, and become so involved they neglect the structure and ritual of Blue Lodge. They're so new to the fraternity, they often never really experience Freemasonry. Obviously this is not the case with all. But I feel it is enough to harm Freemasonry. Fervency for Shrine over actual Freemasonry, IMO, is indicative of society's current need for instant gratification. For the good of the order, Grand jurisdictions should never have allowed Masons to become Shriners if not having completed York or Scottish Rite. If Imperial decides to allow membership for non-Masons, IMO, every Grand jurisdiction should declare all Tiled Shrine Meetings clandestine. Again, just my opinion.
To a degree I also disagree with aspects of the A&ASR. It also is taking advantage of the "I want it now" mentality. First, a newly raised Master Mason isn't out the lodge door before a SR (and Shrine)petition(s) is thrust in his hand. Then, at least here for one weekend a year, he sees 7-9 plays and then calls himself a 32nd Degree Mason. IMO, that really only makes him a 12th degree Mason. And that's without any labor in the Craft. Again, instant gratification. Please do not think I believe there is no value in Scottish Rite. Most certainly there is. Many wonderful Masonic lessons are contained in their degrees. I disagree with how they are taught and learned. And I do not agree with granting of titles not earned.
Maybe I'm just too old school. But, to me, in Freemasonry the work is what teaches you the lessons. And the knowledge in the lessons is what makes you a better man. Not hanging out with the guys, nor being able to bolster one's self-worth with grand sounding titles I love Blue Lodge and York Rite, in large part, because you must do the work. You don't progress until your hours are wrought. And your progressive acquisition of knowledge is the wage you receive for your labor. You earn your reward, as opposed to receiving it.
12/15/2011 2:15:52 PM
Originally Posted By PSI:
Let us make no mistake. The Shriner's Hospitals for Children are among the greatest philanthropy's ever conceived.
My problem with the A.A.O.N.M.S. is that it so often detracts from the core of Freemasonry. Particularly for new Masons. They are drawn to the "social" aspect with their new Brothers, and become so involved they neglect the structure and ritual of Blue Lodge. They're so new to the fraternity, they often never really experience Freemasonry. Obviously this is not the case with all. But I feel it is enough to harm Freemasonry. Fervency for Shrine over actual Freemasonry, IMO, is indicative of society's current need for instant gratification. For the good of the order, Grand jurisdictions should never have allowed Masons to become Shriners if not having completed York or Scottish Rite. If Imperial decides to allow membership for non-Masons, IMO, every Grand jurisdiction should declare all Tiled Shrine Meetings clandestine. Again, just my opinion.
To a degree I also disagree with aspects of the A&ASR. It also is taking advantage of the "I want it now" mentality. First, a newly raised Master Mason isn't out the lodge door before a SR (and Shrine)petition(s) is thrust in his hand. Then, at least here for one weekend a year, he sees 7-9 plays and then calls himself a 32nd Degree Mason. IMO, that really only makes him a 12th degree Mason. And that's without any labor in the Craft. Again, instant gratification. Please do not think I believe there is no value in Scottish Rite. Most certainly there is. Many wonderful Masonic lessons are contained in their degrees. I disagree with how they are taught and learned. And I do not agree with granting of titles not earned.
Maybe I'm just too old school. But, to me, in Freemasonry the work is what teaches you the lessons. And the knowledge in the lessons is what makes you a better man. Not hanging out with the guys, nor being able to bolster one's self-worth with grand sounding titles I love Blue Lodge and York Rite, in large part, because you must do the work. You don't progress until your hours are wrought. And your progressive acquisition of knowledge is the wage you receive for your labor. You earn your reward, as opposed to receiving it.
Let us make no mistake. The Shriner's Hospitals for Children are among the greatest philanthropy's ever conceived.
My problem with the A.A.O.N.M.S. is that it so often detracts from the core of Freemasonry. Particularly for new Masons. They are drawn to the "social" aspect with their new Brothers, and become so involved they neglect the structure and ritual of Blue Lodge. They're so new to the fraternity, they often never really experience Freemasonry. Obviously this is not the case with all. But I feel it is enough to harm Freemasonry. Fervency for Shrine over actual Freemasonry, IMO, is indicative of society's current need for instant gratification. For the good of the order, Grand jurisdictions should never have allowed Masons to become Shriners if not having completed York or Scottish Rite. If Imperial decides to allow membership for non-Masons, IMO, every Grand jurisdiction should declare all Tiled Shrine Meetings clandestine. Again, just my opinion.
To a degree I also disagree with aspects of the A&ASR. It also is taking advantage of the "I want it now" mentality. First, a newly raised Master Mason isn't out the lodge door before a SR (and Shrine)petition(s) is thrust in his hand. Then, at least here for one weekend a year, he sees 7-9 plays and then calls himself a 32nd Degree Mason. IMO, that really only makes him a 12th degree Mason. And that's without any labor in the Craft. Again, instant gratification. Please do not think I believe there is no value in Scottish Rite. Most certainly there is. Many wonderful Masonic lessons are contained in their degrees. I disagree with how they are taught and learned. And I do not agree with granting of titles not earned.
Maybe I'm just too old school. But, to me, in Freemasonry the work is what teaches you the lessons. And the knowledge in the lessons is what makes you a better man. Not hanging out with the guys, nor being able to bolster one's self-worth with grand sounding titles I love Blue Lodge and York Rite, in large part, because you must do the work. You don't progress until your hours are wrought. And your progressive acquisition of knowledge is the wage you receive for your labor. You earn your reward, as opposed to receiving it.
i am beginning to think we were separated at birth.
when mi11b took my petition we had long talks about this stuff. when i got raised he encourage me to wait year before doing anything else. it was good advice. we also had long talks about yr and SR petitions being handed to the candidate during or shortly after their bible presentation. That ceremony should be about the candidate and his joining his lodge, NOT recruiting for the other organizations.
Brother mi11b you were dead on with those opinions!
12/16/2011 9:25:53 AM
Originally Posted By PSI:
Let us make no mistake. The Shriner's Hospitals for Children are among the greatest philanthropy's ever conceived.
My problem with the A.A.O.N.M.S. is that it so often detracts from the core of Freemasonry. Particularly for new Masons. They are drawn to the "social" aspect with their new Brothers, and become so involved they neglect the structure and ritual of Blue Lodge. They're so new to the fraternity, they often never really experience Freemasonry. Obviously this is not the case with all. But I feel it is enough to harm Freemasonry. Fervency for Shrine over actual Freemasonry, IMO, is indicative of society's current need for instant gratification. For the good of the order, Grand jurisdictions should never have allowed Masons to become Shriners if not having completed York or Scottish Rite. If Imperial decides to allow membership for non-Masons, IMO, every Grand jurisdiction should declare all Tiled Shrine Meetings clandestine. Again, just my opinion.
To a degree I also disagree with aspects of the A&ASR. It also is taking advantage of the "I want it now" mentality. First, a newly raised Master Mason isn't out the lodge door before a SR (and Shrine)petition(s) is thrust in his hand. Then, at least here for one weekend a year, he sees 7-9 plays and then calls himself a 32nd Degree Mason. IMO, that really only makes him a 12th degree Mason. And that's without any labor in the Craft. Again, instant gratification. Please do not think I believe there is no value in Scottish Rite. Most certainly there is. Many wonderful Masonic lessons are contained in their degrees. I disagree with how they are taught and learned. And I do not agree with granting of titles not earned.
Maybe I'm just too old school. But, to me, in Freemasonry the work is what teaches you the lessons. And the knowledge in the lessons is what makes you a better man. Not hanging out with the guys, nor being able to bolster one's self-worth with grand sounding titles I love Blue Lodge and York Rite, in large part, because you must do the work. You don't progress until your hours are wrought. And your progressive acquisition of knowledge is the wage you receive for your labor. You earn your reward, as opposed to receiving it.
Let us make no mistake. The Shriner's Hospitals for Children are among the greatest philanthropy's ever conceived.
My problem with the A.A.O.N.M.S. is that it so often detracts from the core of Freemasonry. Particularly for new Masons. They are drawn to the "social" aspect with their new Brothers, and become so involved they neglect the structure and ritual of Blue Lodge. They're so new to the fraternity, they often never really experience Freemasonry. Obviously this is not the case with all. But I feel it is enough to harm Freemasonry. Fervency for Shrine over actual Freemasonry, IMO, is indicative of society's current need for instant gratification. For the good of the order, Grand jurisdictions should never have allowed Masons to become Shriners if not having completed York or Scottish Rite. If Imperial decides to allow membership for non-Masons, IMO, every Grand jurisdiction should declare all Tiled Shrine Meetings clandestine. Again, just my opinion.
To a degree I also disagree with aspects of the A&ASR. It also is taking advantage of the "I want it now" mentality. First, a newly raised Master Mason isn't out the lodge door before a SR (and Shrine)petition(s) is thrust in his hand. Then, at least here for one weekend a year, he sees 7-9 plays and then calls himself a 32nd Degree Mason. IMO, that really only makes him a 12th degree Mason. And that's without any labor in the Craft. Again, instant gratification. Please do not think I believe there is no value in Scottish Rite. Most certainly there is. Many wonderful Masonic lessons are contained in their degrees. I disagree with how they are taught and learned. And I do not agree with granting of titles not earned.
Maybe I'm just too old school. But, to me, in Freemasonry the work is what teaches you the lessons. And the knowledge in the lessons is what makes you a better man. Not hanging out with the guys, nor being able to bolster one's self-worth with grand sounding titles I love Blue Lodge and York Rite, in large part, because you must do the work. You don't progress until your hours are wrought. And your progressive acquisition of knowledge is the wage you receive for your labor. You earn your reward, as opposed to receiving it.
Absolute agreement!
12/22/2011 12:57:21 PM
Originally Posted By IronMedic:
You don't get your full member card here until you give back your MM test. It was tough....but the brothers let me slide on a few mistakes
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
alabama has no requirement to give the mm lesson. few people do it anymore. i am guilty of that as well. i really need to get mine done but honestly finding an instructor for it isn't easy.
alabama has no requirement to give the mm lesson. few people do it anymore. i am guilty of that as well. i really need to get mine done but honestly finding an instructor for it isn't easy.
You don't get your full member card here until you give back your MM test. It was tough....but the brothers let me slide on a few mistakes
IM,
How olds your mother?
Washington #17, Hamilton, Ohio. 2nd District
We just celebrated our 200th anniversary this year as we were charted in 1811. WE also opened the time capsule for our building erected in 1927 in celebration of our bicentennial. Many wonderful items and relics are currently on display and will be re-placed along with current items when we put back the time capsule in March/April.
12/23/2011 8:09:38 AM
Originally Posted By JoeyIsaacs:
IM,
How olds your mother?
Washington #17, Hamilton, Ohio. 2nd District
We just celebrated our 200th anniversary this year as we were charted in 1811. WE also opened the time capsule for our building erected in 1927 in celebration of our bicentennial. Many wonderful items and relics are currently on display and will be re-placed along with current items when we put back the time capsule in March/April.
Originally Posted By IronMedic:
You don't get your full member card here until you give back your MM test. It was tough....but the brothers let me slide on a few mistakes
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
alabama has no requirement to give the mm lesson. few people do it anymore. i am guilty of that as well. i really need to get mine done but honestly finding an instructor for it isn't easy.
alabama has no requirement to give the mm lesson. few people do it anymore. i am guilty of that as well. i really need to get mine done but honestly finding an instructor for it isn't easy.
You don't get your full member card here until you give back your MM test. It was tough....but the brothers let me slide on a few mistakes
IM,
How olds your mother?
Washington #17, Hamilton, Ohio. 2nd District
We just celebrated our 200th anniversary this year as we were charted in 1811. WE also opened the time capsule for our building erected in 1927 in celebration of our bicentennial. Many wonderful items and relics are currently on display and will be re-placed along with current items when we put back the time capsule in March/April.
PIC's
12/23/2011 11:00:25 AM
Originally Posted By IronMedic:
We removed three members from our lodge who never came back and finished their MM after 1 year plus.
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
we had a really bad problem here a few years ago with people getting rushed through the degrees so they could join the "country club". never attended lodge after the fact and didn't learn anything on the way through. I think the shrine is beginning to reap the benefits of those people now.
we had a really bad problem here a few years ago with people getting rushed through the degrees so they could join the "country club". never attended lodge after the fact and didn't learn anything on the way through. I think the shrine is beginning to reap the benefits of those people now.
We removed three members from our lodge who never came back and finished their MM after 1 year plus.
Unfortunately, we are voting a brother out that hasn't finished his MM work as well. The memory work here is Texas is huge, but isn't a problem for anyone willing to work on it and take the time to learn it.
12/23/2011 1:10:24 PM
Originally Posted By JacobusRex:
Unfortunately, we are voting a brother out that hasn't finished his MM work as well. The memory work here is Texas is huge, but isn't a problem for anyone willing to work on it and take the time to learn it.
Originally Posted By IronMedic:
We removed three members from our lodge who never came back and finished their MM after 1 year plus.
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
we had a really bad problem here a few years ago with people getting rushed through the degrees so they could join the "country club". never attended lodge after the fact and didn't learn anything on the way through. I think the shrine is beginning to reap the benefits of those people now.
we had a really bad problem here a few years ago with people getting rushed through the degrees so they could join the "country club". never attended lodge after the fact and didn't learn anything on the way through. I think the shrine is beginning to reap the benefits of those people now.
We removed three members from our lodge who never came back and finished their MM after 1 year plus.
Unfortunately, we are voting a brother out that hasn't finished his MM work as well. The memory work here is Texas is huge, but isn't a problem for anyone willing to work on it and take the time to learn it.
We only give them 60 days to prove proficiency for MM.
12/23/2011 1:23:44 PM
Originally Posted By JoeyIsaacs:
IM,
How olds your mother?
Washington #17, Hamilton, Ohio. 2nd District
We just celebrated our 200th anniversary this year as we were charted in 1811. WE also opened the time capsule for our building erected in 1927 in celebration of our bicentennial. Many wonderful items and relics are currently on display and will be re-placed along with current items when we put back the time capsule in March/April.
Originally Posted By IronMedic:
You don't get your full member card here until you give back your MM test. It was tough....but the brothers let me slide on a few mistakes
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
alabama has no requirement to give the mm lesson. few people do it anymore. i am guilty of that as well. i really need to get mine done but honestly finding an instructor for it isn't easy.
alabama has no requirement to give the mm lesson. few people do it anymore. i am guilty of that as well. i really need to get mine done but honestly finding an instructor for it isn't easy.
You don't get your full member card here until you give back your MM test. It was tough....but the brothers let me slide on a few mistakes
IM,
How olds your mother?
Washington #17, Hamilton, Ohio. 2nd District
We just celebrated our 200th anniversary this year as we were charted in 1811. WE also opened the time capsule for our building erected in 1927 in celebration of our bicentennial. Many wonderful items and relics are currently on display and will be re-placed along with current items when we put back the time capsule in March/April.
Our Lodge is over 200 yrs.....I can't remember the exact date. If I remember when I go to the lodge I will take a picture of the original charter for the lodge.....it is truly amazing to see a piece of paper that old. Shiloh Lodge 544 20th District
12/23/2011 3:38:59 PM
Originally Posted By IronMedic:
Our Lodge is over 200 yrs.....I can't remember the exact date. If I remember when I go to the lodge I will take a picture of the original charter for the lodge.....it is truly amazing to see a piece of paper that old. Shiloh Lodge 544 20th District
Originally Posted By JoeyIsaacs:
IM,
How olds your mother?
Washington #17, Hamilton, Ohio. 2nd District
We just celebrated our 200th anniversary this year as we were charted in 1811. WE also opened the time capsule for our building erected in 1927 in celebration of our bicentennial. Many wonderful items and relics are currently on display and will be re-placed along with current items when we put back the time capsule in March/April.
Originally Posted By IronMedic:
You don't get your full member card here until you give back your MM test. It was tough....but the brothers let me slide on a few mistakes
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
alabama has no requirement to give the mm lesson. few people do it anymore. i am guilty of that as well. i really need to get mine done but honestly finding an instructor for it isn't easy.
alabama has no requirement to give the mm lesson. few people do it anymore. i am guilty of that as well. i really need to get mine done but honestly finding an instructor for it isn't easy.
You don't get your full member card here until you give back your MM test. It was tough....but the brothers let me slide on a few mistakes
IM,
How olds your mother?
Washington #17, Hamilton, Ohio. 2nd District
We just celebrated our 200th anniversary this year as we were charted in 1811. WE also opened the time capsule for our building erected in 1927 in celebration of our bicentennial. Many wonderful items and relics are currently on display and will be re-placed along with current items when we put back the time capsule in March/April.
Our Lodge is over 200 yrs.....I can't remember the exact date. If I remember when I go to the lodge I will take a picture of the original charter for the lodge.....it is truly amazing to see a piece of paper that old. Shiloh Lodge 544 20th District
Very neat.
My lodge is Trinity #14 in Texas. Our warrant was issued by the Grand Lodge of the Republic of Texas on November 2, 1840. Luckily, our original warrant has survived. (We are one of the few lodges in Texas with a warrant rather than a charter.)
12/23/2011 3:41:09 PM
Originally Posted By medicmandan:
We only give them 60 days to prove proficiency for MM.
Originally Posted By JacobusRex:
Unfortunately, we are voting a brother out that hasn't finished his MM work as well. The memory work here is Texas is huge, but isn't a problem for anyone willing to work on it and take the time to learn it.
Originally Posted By IronMedic:
We removed three members from our lodge who never came back and finished their MM after 1 year plus.
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
we had a really bad problem here a few years ago with people getting rushed through the degrees so they could join the "country club". never attended lodge after the fact and didn't learn anything on the way through. I think the shrine is beginning to reap the benefits of those people now.
we had a really bad problem here a few years ago with people getting rushed through the degrees so they could join the "country club". never attended lodge after the fact and didn't learn anything on the way through. I think the shrine is beginning to reap the benefits of those people now.
We removed three members from our lodge who never came back and finished their MM after 1 year plus.
Unfortunately, we are voting a brother out that hasn't finished his MM work as well. The memory work here is Texas is huge, but isn't a problem for anyone willing to work on it and take the time to learn it.
We only give them 60 days to prove proficiency for MM.
alabama figures you have already been raised and ARE a master mason once having gone through the ritual. i do believe we have a rule stating you can't hold a grand lodge position without having given it. also i think some lodges here have the similar rules before taking an officers position.
12/24/2011 2:19:17 PM
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
we had a really bad problem here a few years ago with people getting rushed through the degrees so they could join the "country club". never attended lodge after the fact and didn't learn anything on the way through. I think the shrine is beginning to reap the benefits of those people now.
we had a really bad problem here a few years ago with people getting rushed through the degrees so they could join the "country club". never attended lodge after the fact and didn't learn anything on the way through. I think the shrine is beginning to reap the benefits of those people now.
Number one reason the PMs of our lodge put their foot down & extended the degree work from 3 lines to 3 pages.
Guys where taking officers chairs but had to go back & relearn the degrees just to keep up.
Now I know the original degree work is far more than 3 pages, but to recite 3 lines & your a MM? Oh Hell....No!
12/25/2011 10:18:41 AM
In Wisconsin you're an EA, FC or MM when you've been initiated, passed and raised. You then have one year to post the degree. Obviously you must do each first before proceeding.
We have a posting book for each degree. The Lodge Counselor and other Brothers (often the top and second line signers on their petition) work with the Candidate to get them up to scratch. You then post in a Lodge opened in that degree. The Counselor conducts the posting. Posting consists of some recitation and answering questions pertaining to Masonry and the particular degree. I wish we required more of the ritual work.
A Brother of our Lodge will be GM next year. He's a ritialist, and I hope he tightens the posting requirements.
We have a posting book for each degree. The Lodge Counselor and other Brothers (often the top and second line signers on their petition) work with the Candidate to get them up to scratch. You then post in a Lodge opened in that degree. The Counselor conducts the posting. Posting consists of some recitation and answering questions pertaining to Masonry and the particular degree. I wish we required more of the ritual work.
A Brother of our Lodge will be GM next year. He's a ritialist, and I hope he tightens the posting requirements.
12/25/2011 2:19:45 PM
Originally Posted By PSI:
In Wisconsin you're an EA, FC or MM when you've been initiated, passed and raised. You then have one year to post the degree. Obviously you must do each first before proceeding.
We have a posting book for each degree. The Lodge Counselor and other Brothers (often the top and second line signers on their petition) work with the Candidate to get them up to scratch. You then post in a Lodge opened in that degree. The Counselor conducts the posting. Posting consists of some recitation and answering questions pertaining to Masonry and the particular degree. I wish we required more of the ritual work.
A Brother of our Lodge will be GM next year. He's a ritialist, and I hope he tightens the posting requirements.
In Wisconsin you're an EA, FC or MM when you've been initiated, passed and raised. You then have one year to post the degree. Obviously you must do each first before proceeding.
We have a posting book for each degree. The Lodge Counselor and other Brothers (often the top and second line signers on their petition) work with the Candidate to get them up to scratch. You then post in a Lodge opened in that degree. The Counselor conducts the posting. Posting consists of some recitation and answering questions pertaining to Masonry and the particular degree. I wish we required more of the ritual work.
A Brother of our Lodge will be GM next year. He's a ritialist, and I hope he tightens the posting requirements.
That's similar to what we require. It's a series of questions and answers about the degree, repeating the obligation, and the tokens and passwords. Our candidates get a cipher book pertaining to each degree. They can't use the full cipher until they are a full fledged MM.
1/4/2012 7:04:02 PM
Unfortunately, I agree with several others here about the Shrine. The charities do great work, which is why I joined originally. No other single charity arouses as much emotion in me as the burn and orthopedic hospital, and I'm proud to do anything I can to help. But I found that I cannot be a Shriner and a Freemason, so I contribute without participating.
The meetings I attended were an embarrassment and overall I felt like I was involved with a parody of Masonry rather than a respectable appendant organization. Homer Simpson or Fred Flintstone would have felt at home, it seemed to me. It was quite distressing, as I take Freemasonry very seriously. Maybe more seriously than I should.
I've also heard that the money from the Shrine Circus is not raised for the charities, it's to support the Shrine itself. Seem to recall that it used to be implied pretty strongly that the money was going to the hospitals, but maybe that's changed as well... I honestly haven't looked at it in 10 or so years, so I'm not sure that my memory is accurate.
If/when I want to get liquored up with a bunch of old guys, I've been an Elk since I turned 21 so I'll go drink with them. A Masonic body that seems to exist primarily as a place to drink just doesn't appeal to me.
I'm an opinionated cuss, though.
The meetings I attended were an embarrassment and overall I felt like I was involved with a parody of Masonry rather than a respectable appendant organization. Homer Simpson or Fred Flintstone would have felt at home, it seemed to me. It was quite distressing, as I take Freemasonry very seriously. Maybe more seriously than I should.
I've also heard that the money from the Shrine Circus is not raised for the charities, it's to support the Shrine itself. Seem to recall that it used to be implied pretty strongly that the money was going to the hospitals, but maybe that's changed as well... I honestly haven't looked at it in 10 or so years, so I'm not sure that my memory is accurate.
If/when I want to get liquored up with a bunch of old guys, I've been an Elk since I turned 21 so I'll go drink with them. A Masonic body that seems to exist primarily as a place to drink just doesn't appeal to me.
I'm an opinionated cuss, though.
1/17/2012 9:32:12 PM
Getting back to the original post:
I have heard about it.
My analysis is;
1. He did admit to a felony.
2. He is a sitting Potentate.
So, what we have here is a Catch-22. Depending on the Shriner laws, He is the Potentate until the next election is held. People can pro temp for him. Interesting dilemma...can they expel him (Thus remove him) while he is holding an elected position?
I have heard about it.
My analysis is;
1. He did admit to a felony.
2. He is a sitting Potentate.
So, what we have here is a Catch-22. Depending on the Shriner laws, He is the Potentate until the next election is held. People can pro temp for him. Interesting dilemma...can they expel him (Thus remove him) while he is holding an elected position?
1/18/2012 1:43:15 PM
i was just shown a letter from the imperial potentate...
the shrine has pretty much just declared war in arkansas .i have a BAD feeling about this.
the shrine has pretty much just declared war in arkansas .i have a BAD feeling about this.
1/18/2012 1:44:03 PM
Originally Posted By WVHunter1s1k:
Getting back to the original post:
I have heard about it.
My analysis is;
1. He did admit to a felony.
2. He is a sitting Potentate.
So, what we have here is a Catch-22. Depending on the Shriner laws, He is the Potentate until the next election is held. People can pro temp for him. Interesting dilemma...can they expel him (Thus remove him) while he is holding an elected position?
Getting back to the original post:
I have heard about it.
My analysis is;
1. He did admit to a felony.
2. He is a sitting Potentate.
So, what we have here is a Catch-22. Depending on the Shriner laws, He is the Potentate until the next election is held. People can pro temp for him. Interesting dilemma...can they expel him (Thus remove him) while he is holding an elected position?
if he has a felony conviction and is no longer a mason in good standing can he be a member of the shrine?
1/18/2012 9:00:12 PM
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
if he has a felony conviction and is no longer a mason in good standing can he be a member of the shrine?
Originally Posted By WVHunter1s1k:
Getting back to the original post:
I have heard about it.
My analysis is;
1. He did admit to a felony.
2. He is a sitting Potentate.
So, what we have here is a Catch-22. Depending on the Shriner laws, He is the Potentate until the next election is held. People can pro temp for him. Interesting dilemma...can they expel him (Thus remove him) while he is holding an elected position?
Getting back to the original post:
I have heard about it.
My analysis is;
1. He did admit to a felony.
2. He is a sitting Potentate.
So, what we have here is a Catch-22. Depending on the Shriner laws, He is the Potentate until the next election is held. People can pro temp for him. Interesting dilemma...can they expel him (Thus remove him) while he is holding an elected position?
if he has a felony conviction and is no longer a mason in good standing can he be a member of the shrine?
I understand that. The issue to me is you take that law & counter it with the law "That an elected officer is an officer until the next election." To me they seem to conflict in this situation.
I was just opening it up as discussion.
But, yes. he should have been expelled as a member of the Shrine.
1/19/2012 7:44:22 AM
Originally Posted By WVHunter1s1k:
I understand that. The issue to me is you take that law & counter it with the law "That an elected officer is an officer until the next election." To me they seem to conflict in this situation.
I was just opening it up as discussion.
But, yes. he should have been expelled as a member of the Shrine.
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
if he has a felony conviction and is no longer a mason in good standing can he be a member of the shrine?
Originally Posted By WVHunter1s1k:
Getting back to the original post:
I have heard about it.
My analysis is;
1. He did admit to a felony.
2. He is a sitting Potentate.
So, what we have here is a Catch-22. Depending on the Shriner laws, He is the Potentate until the next election is held. People can pro temp for him. Interesting dilemma...can they expel him (Thus remove him) while he is holding an elected position?
Getting back to the original post:
I have heard about it.
My analysis is;
1. He did admit to a felony.
2. He is a sitting Potentate.
So, what we have here is a Catch-22. Depending on the Shriner laws, He is the Potentate until the next election is held. People can pro temp for him. Interesting dilemma...can they expel him (Thus remove him) while he is holding an elected position?
if he has a felony conviction and is no longer a mason in good standing can he be a member of the shrine?
I understand that. The issue to me is you take that law & counter it with the law "That an elected officer is an officer until the next election." To me they seem to conflict in this situation.
I was just opening it up as discussion.
But, yes. he should have been expelled as a member of the Shrine.
in the blue lodge or SR he would be removed and another officer appointed. that is what SHOULD have occured at the shrine. Masonic membership is required to be a member of the organization. if your expelled your no longer a member. it really is that simple imho.
1/21/2012 7:24:51 PM
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
in the blue lodge or SR he would be removed and another officer appointed. that is what SHOULD have occurred at the shrine. Masonic membership is required to be a member of the organization. if your expelled your no longer a member. it really is that simple imho.
Originally Posted By WVHunter1s1k:
I understand that. The issue to me is you take that law & counter it with the law "That an elected officer is an officer until the next election." To me they seem to conflict in this situation.
I was just opening it up as discussion.
But, yes. he should have been expelled as a member of the Shrine.
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
if he has a felony conviction and is no longer a mason in good standing can he be a member of the shrine?
Originally Posted By WVHunter1s1k:
Getting back to the original post:
I have heard about it.
My analysis is;
1. He did admit to a felony.
2. He is a sitting Potentate.
So, what we have here is a Catch-22. Depending on the Shriner laws, He is the Potentate until the next election is held. People can pro temp for him. Interesting dilemma...can they expel him (Thus remove him) while he is holding an elected position?
Getting back to the original post:
I have heard about it.
My analysis is;
1. He did admit to a felony.
2. He is a sitting Potentate.
So, what we have here is a Catch-22. Depending on the Shriner laws, He is the Potentate until the next election is held. People can pro temp for him. Interesting dilemma...can they expel him (Thus remove him) while he is holding an elected position?
if he has a felony conviction and is no longer a mason in good standing can he be a member of the shrine?
I understand that. The issue to me is you take that law & counter it with the law "That an elected officer is an officer until the next election." To me they seem to conflict in this situation.
I was just opening it up as discussion.
But, yes. he should have been expelled as a member of the Shrine.
in the blue lodge or SR he would be removed and another officer appointed. that is what SHOULD have occurred at the shrine. Masonic membership is required to be a member of the organization. if your expelled your no longer a member. it really is that simple imho.
Not in my state. In my state you are elect in your post until the next election. If you decide to quite, die or get expelled a person can 'Pro temp' that position. But, technically that is his position. I've had to pro temp a position went a guy was appointed & never returned.
