Kent State survivors seek new probe of 1970 shootings

Reuters) - Survivors of the shooting of 13 students by the Ohio National Guard during an anti-war demonstration at Kent State University in 1970 called on Thursday for a new probe into the incident that came to define U.S. divisions over the Vietnam War.

On the eve of the 42nd anniversary of the shootings, four students wounded that day asked U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder to investigate digitally enhanced audio evidence they believe proves an officer ordered the guardsmen to fire on the unarmed students.

A command to fire has never been proven and guardsmen said they fired in self-defense. Criminal charges were brought against eight guardsmen, but a judge dismissed the case.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/04/us-usa-ohio-kentstate-idUSBRE84306120120504

To what end?

Little late now.

I read about this earlier.

"Enhanced" audio leaves me skeptical.

Mr. "Fast and Furious" investigating a 42 year old government shooting?

I recall that the protestors were yelling 'Fire!' the whole time, but I wasn't there. How are you going to tell who was saying what?

Especially since there has been new evidence showing that someone fired on the Guard first. Some audio recordings have what sounds like a .38 going off from the crowd prior to tue Guard firing.

Divert attention

That and the fact that the peaceful hippies had been acting all violent for days, thus establishing a pattern.

I think shooting the RIGHT ones would have been better.

This. The protesters created the situation, not the national guardsmen. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. The worst part is, whomever was rabble rousing WANTED these people to be killed in order to create the antiwar shitstorm that followed. They got what they wanted. The dead were merely useful idiots.

What do you want to bet about the political leanings of those who are urging this investigation?

How about we investigate who the rabble rousers had contact with.

Commies, the lot of them.

My dads best friend was a guardsman there that day and my uncle was a hippy protester there that day. Guess which one I get along with better?

Yeah, they Guardsmen really had not looked at Old_painless' Box'o Truth.

I am very tired of the traitorous scum of the 1960's and how they have actively sought the destruction of this country and CONTINUE.... They are the types that would not admit they were wrong if Holder/ Castro / Ho Chi Minh himself was putting a bullet through their brain.

I'm tired of hearing about the whole thing. It was disclosed by several old hippies last year that there was a guy with a pistol who fired a shot. The commies brought hundreds of people from the east coast in big buses. They were known as the SDS and were professional college commie trouble makers. They started a riot a few nights before the shooting and kept urging the crowd onward.

The Guardsmen had just come from locking horns with union thugs that got violent during a strike. I live just a couple miles away from KSU and every 4 May we wonder if the S will HTF. I was just a child when it happened, i'm 45 now, but i remember my uncles coming to our house loaded for bear. One was a SEAL, another a Marine and the third was a LRRP all fresh back from Nam.

The students got what they deserved. If you want to take on the man, throw rocks, bottles and chunks of concrete then you better be prepared to go all the way and accept the fact that you may be shot.

When you're rioting and raising hell, and the national guard shows up with weapons, and tells you to cut it out.... you might want to heed their advice. Lobbing rocks and records with razors taped on them is probably not a recommended action.

well holder has done such a great job up to now

One of the dead, William Schroder, was an ROTC student not involved in the protest who would have in all likelihood been deployed to Vietnam. I wonder if there was ever any movement towards giving him a posthumous commission as a 2Lt.

Two of the dead were simply walking to class. It is awesome that you support the murder of innocent people.

As long as they investigate the bullet hole going towards the guardsman I'd support a new probe.

You realize one of the dead was an ROTC cadet on his way to class over 300 yards away, right?

would you have pulled the trigger?

This is where I come down on the issue- shortly after the shootings when asked about it a member I believe of the Ohio State Legislature commented to the effect––"They only got four I think we need to increase the National Guards training budget".

I love that this always comes up. You know fucking good goddamn well that I mean the traitorous hippie scum. In fact, the traitorous hippie scum that CAUSED THE NATIONAL GUARD TO BE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE should be the ones culpable for the deaths.

I love that this always comes up. You know fucking good goddamn well that I mean the traitorous hippie scum. In fact, the traitorous hippie scum that CAUSED THE NATIONAL GUARD TO BE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE should be the ones culpable for the deaths.

I'm sorry. What did the hippys do again besides stink up the place?

Yes. I think they shot for a real reason and that the media has managed to quash the real truth, because this is such an effective meme for them.

eta: lol

what reason would that be?

you would have pulled the trigger? You would put a 17 year old unarmed AMERICAN girl in your sight picture and put a .308 in her chest?

I'm sorry, did she have communist thoughts possibly? Is that enough to split her chest open from 50 yards away?

I remember reading about the gunman in the crowd, but can't remember names. Damn Alzheimers.

Read some of the other posts and the REALITY of the situation. They were imported communist agitators, there to actually cause problems and get something just like this to happen.

They were footsoldiers / useful idiots in the ideological war against America. These people were not there trying to "make America better" by exercising their 1st Amendment rights. They were there to push their goal of tearing America and the Constitution down and replacing it with a Communist utopia.

Double Tap

Rocks, bottles thrown at the NG. Things that would get them arrested by any modern LEO and the NG was not equipped nor trained to deal with the situation.

I remember now that there was a Confidential Informant that was in the crowd and working for the FBI (?) who admitted to firing his pistol in later interviews. But no one wants to pay attention to that.

The NG were trying, overall, to NOT shoot the protestors. Good initiative, bad judgment. Firing over the heads of those directly in front of them, not killing those causing problems. Know what is downrange when you pull the trigger.

Actually I have no idea what you meant. Most people think only protestors got clipped. If you wanted to be more accurate, you could have said "at least two deserved it" but you didn't. You made a broad statement instead. Deal with it.

I think the guardsmen were justified to shoot: they were facing a mob organized by a bunch of communists who had no qualms about bombing or shooting their way to a communist utopia. That said, if you cant ID your target, you shouldnt shoot. I think there were Weathermen types shooting at Guardsmen at KSU. Witnesses said people in the crowd had handguns; someone in the mob told the NG they had riflemen around the area; and there's the bullet impact on a post that indicates a bullet went towards the NG.

Meh.

Kent State was small potatoes.

You can really get your rocks off on this

sit back and enjoy!

idealistic twits Vs National Guard.



PM, you don't fight communism by shooting kids in the face. (even if an agitator is asking for it).

Would have been an '06, Guard had Garands in those days.

Northern Ireland was/is a civil war with both sides in open and at times armed conflict, both sides operating paramilitaries etc.....It's hardly comparable.

This is going to be one of those threads where arfcom GD displays the fact that it's a mirror image of the DU website.

Screechy sloganeering always trumps logic and facts.

That's why the world is so fucked up.

Thanks for the correction. Like it matters.

.30-06 the perfect round for killing impressionable young college muffins.

PhatMax stopped posting in this thread to go clean out the CMP South store of greek surplus. "Come at me with those flowers bro!"

Well, I despise the manipulation of facts etc...by the American Left....and this IS a firearms site....Max won't find much at the North Store...he would have a better chance in my basement!

The Nixon administration said the guardsmen were guilty of "murder without premeditation."

The reason they said that is because the guardsmen could not expalin why they fired.

They also could not explain why they fired in the particular direction that they did.

There was no connection between the people who were killed and the guardsmen.

The guardsmen were never prosecuted because it's obvious that they just panicked.

Now, setting that aside, let's all get back to the pathetic screechy bullshit.

Kill the hippies!!!

Wooooot!!!

+1 Someone who gets it.

Now THAT, I can agree with!

They did set one campus building on fire, but, you know, harmless, idealistic college youths, right? I say leave the whole damn mess where it belongs - in the past.

I understand

wasn't that a garbage can set alight during a "sit-in".

Do you shoot your kid in the face for doing something stupid?

Why should we shoot them in the face for being stupid at the state level?


Round up all the hippies, shoot them in the back of the heads after making them dig their own shallow graves. That will get rid of all the hippies. Problem solved. Hey, it worked for pol-pot, mao, stalin, and the nazis. It can work for us too! And PhatMax is just the right wing mind to step up to the plate to make it a reality!

Nah, I have no real need for 30.06, I only have on Ruger M77 (Made in the 200th Year of American Liberty rollstamped right on the barrel) and I barely shoot it. At about a buck a round, werewolf silver bullets are cheaper to use.

There were two types of hippies. The "Smoke dope and fuck" hippies, who grew up and got over it and the dyed in the wool, wildhair Communists that would do ANYTHING to further their goals.

At this time, in Vietnam, the Communists were using / forcing kids to shoot and attack American soldiers. They had no qualms about tying an unwilling VN to a log over ants nests and tied a gun to their hands. The only option for the VN to end his misery was to shoot at Americans and hope they killed him in return. (I can't rememeber the memoir this is from, but it is an eyewitness thing)

This is the type of person that the real communist agitators are. (and were). The people really running the show on the hippie side were complete sympathizers with the Communists in the USSR and in VN and wished with all their souls for American troops to die in our "imperialistic war". They did not want the troops home, or for them to "fail but stay safe", they wanted American boys to DIE.

And as such I have no goddamn sympathy, male, female, etc. for someone who is living under the aegis of American greatness and attacking it, with the intended goal of destroying that protection and replacing it with a system that promotes murder as perfectly acceptable if the goal is in the interest of the system.

So, if they did not want to get hurt, the National Guard was a grizzly bear, let out of its cage; they could have stopped poking it.

As others have referenced, the NG are NOT the police. They are NOT there to arrest. Especially then, they were there to stand on line with guns. They had two settings. Off and on, and the switch got flipped to on, because the Commies KNEW this and what would happen and kept pushing the useful idiots on and on.

The deaths are on the heads of the agitators, agents and scum of the left, that have NO QUALMS about killing innocent people and using their deaths to advance their agenda.

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