Archived Posts » 59,821,464
Do I need a stiffer spline??
9/24/2010 11:05:46 AM
Finally weakened and bought a new bow. Went from a PSE Fireflight to a
Diamond Rock 2.0. Last year I started shooting carbon arrows out of my
PSE, Beeman 340 cut to 31" with 100gr point. The PSE bow was cranked
down to max at 70lbs grouped real good but over 30 yards you were
lobbing the arrows in. The guy at the bow shop said the Diamond I
bought was set on 65lbs so when I got home and put my sight, sling ,
quiver and rest on I give each limb 1/2 turn, should be around 68lbs
now. Started shooting this morning into a dead stop bag at 30yds, WOW
so much faster than the old one, but I notice the arrows aren't
sticking straight. They are canted right and left. Kinda hard to watch
my own arrow but I think they might be whipping. Already planning to
head to our local bow shop tonight (he only opens from 6-9p.m.) and have
the arrows cut down an inch to fit this Bowtech, should I see about a
stiffer arrow instead?
so much faster than the old one, but I notice the arrows aren't
sticking straight. They are canted right and left. Kinda hard to watch
my own arrow but I think they might be whipping. Already planning to
head to our local bow shop tonight (he only opens from 6-9p.m.) and have
the arrows cut down an inch to fit this Bowtech, should I see about a
stiffer arrow instead?
9/24/2010 11:55:58 AM
There could be numerous reasons you arrows are sticking in tail left/right/up/down. The 340 is spined correctly for 68 pounds. More than likely your rest and/or nock point needs adjusting.
I would recommend paper tuning. Google "paper tuning a bow" for all you ever need to know.
Good luck
I would recommend paper tuning. Google "paper tuning a bow" for all you ever need to know.
Good luck
9/24/2010 1:17:43 PM
what is your draw length? FOC measurement (front of center) weight for the arrow? what rest? shooting with a release or fingers? Is this with field points or with broadheads?
You can stiffen an arrow by cutting it shorter or by moving the FOC more towards the front (heavier point and/or less weight on the back by lighter nock, vanes etc)
Many of todays bows tend to like a stiffer arrow than you would think, they have more effiecient cams etc than just a couple of years ago which deliver more energy during the power stroke.
My bowtech tribute is set at 61lbs, I draw 28 inchs and I shoot a 26inch arrow, that is spined for a 70lb bow and it shoots perfect.
Very first thing you need to do is make sure you are not getting any vane contact when u are shooting, they will drive you friggin nuts. Get some spray foot powder and spray the back half of the arrows and shoot em then look for contact marks on the arrows. Also alot of times it is benifitial to number your arrows then you know if it is a specific arrow that is always off or not.
Down load the Easton Tuning Guide and you will have more then enough info to get the bow shooting better. Also look up "walk back tuning" I have found it to be better than paper turning, although I do paper tune to get eveything aprox. Gotta tune that bow before you can shoot it accurately, but I am anal about this. for example, if your bow season start 10/1 like ours does, I wouldnt even think about hunting with the new bow, not enough time to get it perfect, but that is me.
Have a buddy stand behind you and watch the arrow flight to see if there is a whip or a corkscrew to the arrows. DO NOT try to do it yourself as you will drive your self crazy, alot of archery accuracy occurs as the arrow is leaving the bow. When u peek, it WILL mess up the flight. I done move my bow until the arrow is in the target, forces me not to peek.
Hope this helps,
J-
You can stiffen an arrow by cutting it shorter or by moving the FOC more towards the front (heavier point and/or less weight on the back by lighter nock, vanes etc)
Many of todays bows tend to like a stiffer arrow than you would think, they have more effiecient cams etc than just a couple of years ago which deliver more energy during the power stroke.
My bowtech tribute is set at 61lbs, I draw 28 inchs and I shoot a 26inch arrow, that is spined for a 70lb bow and it shoots perfect.
Very first thing you need to do is make sure you are not getting any vane contact when u are shooting, they will drive you friggin nuts. Get some spray foot powder and spray the back half of the arrows and shoot em then look for contact marks on the arrows. Also alot of times it is benifitial to number your arrows then you know if it is a specific arrow that is always off or not.
Down load the Easton Tuning Guide and you will have more then enough info to get the bow shooting better. Also look up "walk back tuning" I have found it to be better than paper turning, although I do paper tune to get eveything aprox. Gotta tune that bow before you can shoot it accurately, but I am anal about this. for example, if your bow season start 10/1 like ours does, I wouldnt even think about hunting with the new bow, not enough time to get it perfect, but that is me.
Have a buddy stand behind you and watch the arrow flight to see if there is a whip or a corkscrew to the arrows. DO NOT try to do it yourself as you will drive your self crazy, alot of archery accuracy occurs as the arrow is leaving the bow. When u peek, it WILL mess up the flight. I done move my bow until the arrow is in the target, forces me not to peek.
Hope this helps,
J-
9/24/2010 1:31:05 PM
Originally Posted By jjc155:
what is your draw length? FOC measurement (front of center) weight for the arrow? what rest? shooting with a release or fingers? Is this with field points or with broadheads?
You can stiffen an arrow by cutting it shorter or by moving the FOC more towards the front (heavier point and/or less weight on the back by lighter nock, vanes etc)
Many of todays bows tend to like a stiffer arrow than you would think, they have more effiecient cams etc than just a couple of years ago which deliver more energy during the power stroke.
My bowtech tribute is set at 61lbs, I draw 28 inchs and I shoot a 26inch arrow, that is spined for a 70lb bow and it shoots perfect.
Very first thing you need to do is make sure you are not getting any vane contact when u are shooting, they will drive you friggin nuts. Get some spray foot powder and spray the back half of the arrows and shoot em then look for contact marks on the arrows. Also alot of times it is benifitial to number your arrows then you know if it is a specific arrow that is always off or not.
Down load the Easton Tuning Guide and you will have more then enough info to get the bow shooting better. Also look up "walk back tuning" I have found it to be better than paper turning, although I do paper tune to get eveything aprox. Gotta tune that bow before you can shoot it accurately, but I am anal about this. for example, if your bow season start 10/1 like ours does, I wouldnt even think about hunting with the new bow, not enough time to get it perfect, but that is me.
Have a buddy stand behind you and watch the arrow flight to see if there is a whip or a corkscrew to the arrows. DO NOT try to do it yourself as you will drive your self crazy, alot of archery accuracy occurs as the arrow is leaving the bow. When u peek, it WILL mess up the flight. I done move my bow until the arrow is in the target, forces me not to peek.
Hope this helps,
J-
what is your draw length? FOC measurement (front of center) weight for the arrow? what rest? shooting with a release or fingers? Is this with field points or with broadheads?
You can stiffen an arrow by cutting it shorter or by moving the FOC more towards the front (heavier point and/or less weight on the back by lighter nock, vanes etc)
Many of todays bows tend to like a stiffer arrow than you would think, they have more effiecient cams etc than just a couple of years ago which deliver more energy during the power stroke.
My bowtech tribute is set at 61lbs, I draw 28 inchs and I shoot a 26inch arrow, that is spined for a 70lb bow and it shoots perfect.
Very first thing you need to do is make sure you are not getting any vane contact when u are shooting, they will drive you friggin nuts. Get some spray foot powder and spray the back half of the arrows and shoot em then look for contact marks on the arrows. Also alot of times it is benifitial to number your arrows then you know if it is a specific arrow that is always off or not.
Down load the Easton Tuning Guide and you will have more then enough info to get the bow shooting better. Also look up "walk back tuning" I have found it to be better than paper turning, although I do paper tune to get eveything aprox. Gotta tune that bow before you can shoot it accurately, but I am anal about this. for example, if your bow season start 10/1 like ours does, I wouldnt even think about hunting with the new bow, not enough time to get it perfect, but that is me.
Have a buddy stand behind you and watch the arrow flight to see if there is a whip or a corkscrew to the arrows. DO NOT try to do it yourself as you will drive your self crazy, alot of archery accuracy occurs as the arrow is leaving the bow. When u peek, it WILL mess up the flight. I done move my bow until the arrow is in the target, forces me not to peek.
Hope this helps,
J-
Draw length is 30" , don't know the FOC for the arrow, I'm shooting 100gr field points right know, rest is a Whisker Biscuit, Release is a Scott shark. I've read about this powder test but I'm still not sure how it tells me anything, when the arrow goes through the WB won't it wipe all the powder off? Sorry I'm new to this, my old bow came set up and tuned, the guy I got it from is built the same as me.
Our season started 9/15 but it's been too warm to get excited. Gonna cool down this weekend maybe I'll try next week.
9/24/2010 2:14:07 PM
Originally Posted By PKRobbins:
Draw length is 30" , don't know the FOC for the arrow, I'm shooting 100gr field points right know, rest is a Whisker Biscuit, Release is a Scott shark. I've read about this powder test but I'm still not sure how it tells me anything, when the arrow goes through the WB won't it wipe all the powder off? Sorry I'm new to this, my old bow came set up and tuned, the guy I got it from is built the same as me.
Our season started 9/15 but it's been too warm to get excited. Gonna cool down this weekend maybe I'll try next week.
Originally Posted By jjc155:
what is your draw length? FOC measurement (front of center) weight for the arrow? what rest? shooting with a release or fingers? Is this with field points or with broadheads?
You can stiffen an arrow by cutting it shorter or by moving the FOC more towards the front (heavier point and/or less weight on the back by lighter nock, vanes etc)
Many of todays bows tend to like a stiffer arrow than you would think, they have more effiecient cams etc than just a couple of years ago which deliver more energy during the power stroke.
My bowtech tribute is set at 61lbs, I draw 28 inchs and I shoot a 26inch arrow, that is spined for a 70lb bow and it shoots perfect.
Very first thing you need to do is make sure you are not getting any vane contact when u are shooting, they will drive you friggin nuts. Get some spray foot powder and spray the back half of the arrows and shoot em then look for contact marks on the arrows. Also alot of times it is benifitial to number your arrows then you know if it is a specific arrow that is always off or not.
Down load the Easton Tuning Guide and you will have more then enough info to get the bow shooting better. Also look up "walk back tuning" I have found it to be better than paper turning, although I do paper tune to get eveything aprox. Gotta tune that bow before you can shoot it accurately, but I am anal about this. for example, if your bow season start 10/1 like ours does, I wouldnt even think about hunting with the new bow, not enough time to get it perfect, but that is me.
Have a buddy stand behind you and watch the arrow flight to see if there is a whip or a corkscrew to the arrows. DO NOT try to do it yourself as you will drive your self crazy, alot of archery accuracy occurs as the arrow is leaving the bow. When u peek, it WILL mess up the flight. I done move my bow until the arrow is in the target, forces me not to peek.
Hope this helps,
J-
what is your draw length? FOC measurement (front of center) weight for the arrow? what rest? shooting with a release or fingers? Is this with field points or with broadheads?
You can stiffen an arrow by cutting it shorter or by moving the FOC more towards the front (heavier point and/or less weight on the back by lighter nock, vanes etc)
Many of todays bows tend to like a stiffer arrow than you would think, they have more effiecient cams etc than just a couple of years ago which deliver more energy during the power stroke.
My bowtech tribute is set at 61lbs, I draw 28 inchs and I shoot a 26inch arrow, that is spined for a 70lb bow and it shoots perfect.
Very first thing you need to do is make sure you are not getting any vane contact when u are shooting, they will drive you friggin nuts. Get some spray foot powder and spray the back half of the arrows and shoot em then look for contact marks on the arrows. Also alot of times it is benifitial to number your arrows then you know if it is a specific arrow that is always off or not.
Down load the Easton Tuning Guide and you will have more then enough info to get the bow shooting better. Also look up "walk back tuning" I have found it to be better than paper turning, although I do paper tune to get eveything aprox. Gotta tune that bow before you can shoot it accurately, but I am anal about this. for example, if your bow season start 10/1 like ours does, I wouldnt even think about hunting with the new bow, not enough time to get it perfect, but that is me.
Have a buddy stand behind you and watch the arrow flight to see if there is a whip or a corkscrew to the arrows. DO NOT try to do it yourself as you will drive your self crazy, alot of archery accuracy occurs as the arrow is leaving the bow. When u peek, it WILL mess up the flight. I done move my bow until the arrow is in the target, forces me not to peek.
Hope this helps,
J-
Draw length is 30" , don't know the FOC for the arrow, I'm shooting 100gr field points right know, rest is a Whisker Biscuit, Release is a Scott shark. I've read about this powder test but I'm still not sure how it tells me anything, when the arrow goes through the WB won't it wipe all the powder off? Sorry I'm new to this, my old bow came set up and tuned, the guy I got it from is built the same as me.
Our season started 9/15 but it's been too warm to get excited. Gonna cool down this weekend maybe I'll try next week.
Copy yeah with the wisker biscuit you cant do the powder test. You could cut your arrows down alittle, like I said my DL is 28 and my arrows are 26inch (I dont use an overdraw either). Make sure that your center shot is set good, that is pretty important with a whisker bisquit as the arrow is in contact with the rest the entire power stroke. I used a Trophy Ridge Drop zone and credit it with the biggest equipement addition to accuracy that I have seen.
here is a pretty easy to follow write up on FOC from Bowsite.com. My current hunting arrows are just under 14% FOC.
Weighing in on `FOC'
A lot of bowhunters have trouble with broadheads because they're unaware of the front- of-center (FOC) balance point of their arrow. Very simply stated, FOC is the point on the arrow at which the fletch uses leverage to correct arrow flight. The further forward the FOC, the longer the `lever' the fletch has to work with and the easier its job.
The general FOC recommendation is 12 to 15% for broadheads (compared to 8-11% for field points). Finger shooters, and those shooting shafts less than 26-inches in length should lean toward the 15% figure. This is because shorter arrows are inherently less stable, and finger shooters, once again, need a little extra help to correct the normal arrow wobble upon release.
Do the math yourself. Here's how I do it... and since I'm no math wiz it's pretty simple. The formula is: [(ABP ÷ TAL) - .50] x100 = FOC. ABP is the measurement of the Arrow Balance Point for the tail of the arrow, and TAL is the Total Arrow Length.
All you need is a tape measure and something to balance an arrow on (like a pencil) to figure out your FOC. First, balance the arrow and mark where the balance point is. Then, measure the length of your arrow from where the string contacts the nock up to where the insert goes into the shaft. Next, measure from the throat of the nock to the mark you made at the balance
point. Finally, input the figures into the FOC formula- [(ABP ÷ TAL) - .50] x100 = FOC. For example: If you had a 30" arrow that balanced at 19" the formula would read [(19÷30) - .50] x 100 = 13.3% FOC.
If you find your arrow's FOC is too far back and you really don't want to change shafts or components, try switching to feathers. They're much lighter than vanes and should move your FOC forward by 2% or more. You can also use a lighter nock. I particularly like the `Tune-a-Nocks" from Quality Archery Designs (804-846-5839). They're super light, accurate, and they work especially well if you shoot a string loop like I do.
If your FOC is too far back you can either use a heavier broadhead (if your shaft spine can handle it), or lighten up the rear end of your arrow with feathers or lighter nocks.
Hope this helps some
J-
9/24/2010 5:18:30 PM
I think just a simple bow tuning will make a dramatic difference for your problem.
I'd try that and go from there. After all, it's not like you're shooting a 500 spine at 70 pounds.
I'd try that and go from there. After all, it's not like you're shooting a 500 spine at 70 pounds.
9/24/2010 6:10:06 PM
I am trying a program that helps select correct arrow spine, costs only $12.95. I like the way my arrows are behaving so far. Its the OnTarget2 software from Pin wheel. I just use the shaft selector here.
9/25/2010 6:27:32 PM
For those that care-
WB was off a little. I moved it about 1/32 to the right and stuff straightened out quick. Went ahead to the bow shop he cut 1.5" off my arrows, picked up 1/2 dozen more to practice with, then started eyeballing a QAD drop rest. Damn you all for putting that idea in my head. So...... I did figure out was wrong, lesson learned, got a new rest, and while I was there a kisser button. She's shooting tight now. Can't wait till Tuesday P.M. it'll be my first hunt this season. Got 4 deer and 4 turkey tags to fill. I'll be tickled to use 1
WB was off a little. I moved it about 1/32 to the right and stuff straightened out quick. Went ahead to the bow shop he cut 1.5" off my arrows, picked up 1/2 dozen more to practice with, then started eyeballing a QAD drop rest. Damn you all for putting that idea in my head. So...... I did figure out was wrong, lesson learned, got a new rest, and while I was there a kisser button. She's shooting tight now. Can't wait till Tuesday P.M. it'll be my first hunt this season. Got 4 deer and 4 turkey tags to fill. I'll be tickled to use 1
9/26/2010 5:20:29 AM
That first bow kill will be special, gives you that bug. BTW that QAD rest is sweet, I'm using one and love it.
9/26/2010 11:58:47 AM
Originally Posted By fmkenner:
I am trying a program that helps select correct arrow spine, costs only $12.95. I like the way my arrows are behaving so far. Its the OnTarget2 software from Pin wheel. I just use the shaft selector here.
I am trying a program that helps select correct arrow spine, costs only $12.95. I like the way my arrows are behaving so far. Its the OnTarget2 software from Pin wheel. I just use the shaft selector here.
I have that program. It gets you close but when I was using it (acouple of years ago) I found that there was nothing in there about Hybrid type double cams (like my bowtech binary cams) so it was not as accurate as you would think it would be. Also found that there was only one arrow out of the five that I was looking at that was listed in the program. Looked to me that the program was about 1.5-2 years behind on the arrows. Maybe they have updated it since.
Since then I have gone back to the way that I learned to selects arrows which is: 1) follow the manufacture specs 2) start with full length arrow, shoot through paper. 3) cut 1/2 inch off the arrow shoot through paper again, repeat until you get the best tear (for you, not everyone can bullet hole through paper). That gets you in the ballpark for your arrows. Then I move to Walk Back and group tuning to tune my bow.
Papertuning, IMHO is to "tune" the arrow not the bow.
I draw 28inch and shoot 26inch arrows with my current bow/arrow set up.
J-
