Knife sharpening in the wild

Ok lets say we bug out and didnt have a knife sharpener in the old BOB what would be the best way to sharpen a knife. Ive heard a flat smooth river stone would work whats your 2cents. Hey Les Stroud you and your Gerber out there?

The edge of a car window works pretty good, but not for getting out significant nicks or sharpening a very dull blade. Of course that's if in an urban area.

An old standby for coarse sharpening is the bottom of a ceramic mug or dish that has that unglazed ring. The ring will act as a pretty decent sharpener but leave a fairly rough edge. Clean up with that stone. Of course, a lot of the places you find mugs and plates you can find other sharpening options. Nail files and such work decently. Those double sided disposable ones are pretty decent, particularly the newer style that are wider and a bit thicker.

If you have to use a natural stone try to match up your current blade condition with the stone. Don't go using a really rough stone on a blade that just needs a touch up. In fact, I wouldn't do anything to it if it's not real bad. River stones are probably not a great option unless they're something partially exposed where they wind up with texture. Most stones that spend a lot of time in flowing water wind up too smooth to do you much good if your knife really needs sharpening enough to be doing it that way.

On the other hand, why don't you have some way to sharpen your knife in the bag? A little folding diamond stick sharpener is cheap and tiny. Or one of the flat pull through units, though the stick kind have more uses than just knives. You can use it to sharpen all sorts of stuff.

This is one of the strikes against the super steels. If you don't have a diamond, you're going to be up against it, trying to sharpen ATS34 or CPM10V or anything like that.

You can sharpen 1095 and O-1 on a river stone without much trouble. Some stones are better than others, of course. Go out and try different ones and see how it goes. I bet you make sure you have a sharpener , after you do.

Well this is the devils advocate kind of question yes i pack my mini ceramic stick and mini diamond in my hiking packs. I was curios what you would do if lost with no gear. I like the ceramic cup idea for an urban fix. Any more ideas from. How about stroping on your leather belt to keep edge keen. HMMM

This will only work if your blade is already somewhat sharp. (I believe the leather belt technique is to "make a sharp blade sharper") Otherwise you'll probably just ruin your belt, and possibly your blade.

Not to mention, if you can't do it now, you probably wont be able to do it out there. Ive only tried a few times, and now my belt is getting thin.

What do you guys cut with your knives that makes them so dull?

I have a diamond file on my Leatherman so I can resharpen if I need too, but a good knife should skin dozens of deer without needing resharpened.

Do you all dig trenches and fighting positions with your knifes for fun?

Precisely, but if your knife blade is made from a good steel, and properly sharpened before you venture out, you'd have to practically dig a trench before you'd need to resharpen.

I think the question was asked from more of a survival and less of a "Im going hunting so Ill go get my knife" kind of a stand point, and I think its a very good question.

We prepare because some day we might not be able to just go grab the item we need. If I was genuinely "surviving" with my knife, it will be doing a lot more than I care to think about right now. From being an axe to a spear, I imagine if even a good knife were being utilized to its full potential in a survival situation, they would all dull quick enough.

As for fighting positions etc, well if I God damn had to and thats all I have to do it with, you better believe it. That is what survival is all about isn't it? We bury our heads in these forums to get an idea of what we could do if necessary. Yes, of course I could go to Cabelas and get the newest $_________ diamond sharpener, but suppose you went on that hunt, and it all didn't go to plan. . .


I hate hypotheticals, a question shouldn't need a story just to get an answer. Yes, we have BOB's with everything we think we need in them, but that doesn't mean its inseparable from us. Say for some un-God-forsaken reason you got into a fire fight, first thing Im doing is dropping the 40lbs off my back so I can move and take sufficient cover. Assume now I can't recover my bag, its a week later and my knife has seen some heavy use. Needs a sharpening, now what.

A mug, window edge, capable rocks, leather belt if you know how, what else?

ETA :After re-reading the OP, its clearly stated no sharpener in the BOB, but anyways . . .

I HAD a USGI sharpening stone that fits on a key chain, I don't know why everyone shouldn't have one. As far as I can tell it

If you are truly concerned about sharpen your knife you should check into some of those compact pocket sharpeners, and never leave home without it.

ETA:
This is the one I had, it is only $8, but fits easily in your pocket:

US GI Knife Sharpener

My knife has only been sharpened twice in 12 years and has prolly done 20 deer and one moose. A2 tool steel. It'll rust if I don't dry it but gets SCARY sharp.

Edit: Those folding diamond things are small, cheap, and work well

Slightly off topic but here goes...

I used to carry various knives with low end steels. As a result, I was always concerned about sharpening. Almost any use at all, even modest use, meant that my various kershaws, gerbers, and the like ended up dull.

A few years back I bought a decent knife made with S30V. The basic knife in 440 stainless was $60 or so. the same knife in S30V was closer to $120. The only difference was the material in teh blade. Wow! That extra $60 was well worth it!!! This knife keeps cutting and cutting and cutting and seems to remain decently sharp darned near for ever. I have another in 154CM. Its quite good. Not as good at teh S30V, but far better than anything else I've owned.

Since I started buying better knives, the issue of sharpening in field is far less important than it used to be. I do carry a sharpener, but in the event its lost, my better knives go faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrr longer before needing attention.

very light being diamond instead of stone, handle folds to cover surface like a butterfly knife. it's in my micro-ghb and another in hip-pack which rides piggy on my bob. very light.

http://www.amazon.com/DMT-FWFC-Double-Diafold-Sharpener/dp/B00004WFTW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1332816352&sr=8-1

The real problem with S30V is that once it does get dull you're in trouble unless you have a good stone to resharpen it with. 154CM or CPM154, or ATS34 (basically japanese 154CM) is not as bad in that respect but will get dull faster. The usual suggestion with S30V is to touch up the edge regularly, do NOT let it get remotely dull, or you'll be spending a lot of time trying to restore that edge. CPM154 is about the same hardness but without quite the abrasion resistance so as long as you aren't cutting abrasive stuff like paper, metal, stone.... it will last about as long as S30V on soft stuff like skinning work, most woods, normal foods...

Personally, I'd choose CPM154 if I was going to knowingly be in the situation of having to improvise sharpening but wanted to stick to a higher end steel. If you can keep a diamond stone or rod handy to do touch ups then S30V is a pretty nice option for that extra abrasion resistance. S35V is a bit easier to sharpen, but still retains most of S30V's good points.

HMMM I have now put forth the hypothetical question twice what would you do if lost gear in the wilderness no store bought sharpener in you kit. How would you sharpen your knife thank you for all the helpful hints on not going out with out a sharpener or what kind of sharpener you keep secreted about your person I now offer a large FACE PALM for all that missed the point.

To properly strop an edge with leather you need to load it with abrasive. The leather just holds the abrasive. Put the leather on a flat surface so that you can apply decent force without bending the strop downward which will most likely roll a very fine edge.

The other option is to just get a knife made of properly hardened D2 and keep a 12"x3" piece of cardboard in your pack that you can use as a strop.

lol. We're a rough crowd on not being prepared, kind of amusing in that regard since your question is perfectly valid. Shit happens even if you had a sharpener in your pack, maybe it got lost or the pack got lost somehow...

Assuming wilderness, so no vehicle or mugs handy, rocks will do the job and that's about all I can think of that would. I stand by my original comment of finding something fairly small pored but not polished like a river rock usually is. I'd also go for a rock that is NOT coarse to the touch unless you've really done a number on the knife already. Stick to something with a smooth shape, just slightly convex so it's easy to make steady contact with the edge. My preference would be for a larger stone firmly planted in the ground that I can move the knife across rather than trying to move a stone across the knife. It's REALLY easy to slip and slice yourself up and given the scenario that's something to be avoided at almost any cost.

I'm not a rock guy, so I can't give any suggestions on what actual types of rock to look for. I would just avoid anything with a pebbly finish, I'd want something where the finish was more IN than out, if that makes sense, to get a more even stroke and slightly smoother work. If it takes twice as many strokes but doesn't tear up my blade edge I'm ahead of the game.

I used to actually be a custom knifemaker, back before a motorcycle accident stole my health, and my finances forced me to sell my shop equipment. Long story for another time, but I have always thought that people have become retarded/anal about the sharpness of their knives. Its great to have a scalpel-sharp knife, yes, but not entirely necessary for survival purposes. To answer the OP's question, I'd use a nice piece of slate or a smooth river stone. If you could find a piece of white quartz - smoothed and rounded by the tumbling action of glacial movement, that's a good one.

Not matter how much your knife costs your still going to need it sharpen we can all agree on that! Some steel is a lot harder to sharpen then other steel but it holds it's edge longer. My Benchmade knives were a bit$h to sharpen when I was in Iraq they became useless because of how hard they were to sharpen! The metal was high priced but was not made to be a grunt knife. My crkt knife and Cold steel knives are grunt knives able to take abuse and sharpen even when using the cheap GI stone. My Benchmade would not sharpen on.

Now I know how to sharpen knives I have made a few knives in my day from bar stock to a rail road spike! Each knife I have made holds its blade well true it does dull quicker but a few times on a stone and it is good to go! If you can carry around a sharping kit then get the high priced steel but if you can't go with a common steel.

To me it's something you need to need to pick out! Good steel that stays sharper longer but is harder to sharpen when dull. Or steel that dulls quicker yet it is easy to sharpen on most anything you find. For me I like the steel that is easy to sharpen because I can make a razor blade out of that knife when I do sharpen it. Might not last as long but it gets the job done! Lets say it does not!!! Them I just resharpen it quick and get back to work!

I saw harder.








Seriously.



When I worked offshore I used knives everyday above and below water. I have two Spyderco Atlantic salts, that I've used for YEARS cutting, scraping, stripping wire, prying and generally abusing and have never sharpened either of them.


Many divers using straight blades would have to sharpen their knives between dives. Anyone carrying serrated blades (especially the spyderco salt series) didn't.

WFT?

Agreed they are good but every knife get dull not matter what! So how do you sharpen that blade? No flame I agree its a great knife but a Bit$h to sharpen!

LOL like I said, I saw harder, I've never sharpened either of them, and honestly don't plan on it or really think I will especially since I'm not diving anymore, and don't use them nearly as much as I used to. 3 years of well above average if not extreme use, and 3 years of average use and they are still sharp.

Worst comes to worst I'll have Albert at Seattle Edge sharpen them, and not worry about it again for another few years.



So, as to the OP's question, my answer is "not worry".




ETA- to clarify, I suck at sharpening knives, and would probably make a fixed blade dull by trying, so that's why I like serrated.


The reason I used the Atlantic Salts, is they are GREAT for diving, the blunt nose keeps you from stabbing yourself, and the serrated blade on top of cutting anything you run across and not dulling as fast as a straight blade has the side benefit of not slicing your body open instantly.

Pretty sad ain't it?



Reminds me of what sheeple would do. There's an IMPORTANT lesson here for folks who want to survive and it has NOTHING to do with sharpening.

Sad, maybe. Disappointing, definitely.

You could mistake this thread for a cabelas sales pitch. Doesn't matter what or how you ask it, your reply will be spend money on ____________.

I already own multiple sharpeners, for god sake I'm in the SF, hope you use your sharpeners better than you can read.

For those who did reply appropriately, thanks a ton, the window and mug I did not know. Valuable info if you ask me.

OP thanks for bringing it up, great question.

Come on lighten up a bit folks. This is a free form forum. If you see a good idea, use it.

Duly noted.

Its just unfortunate you have to read through 30 negligible and un-relatable "answers" to find one good one.

You consider your smug exaggeration to be more useful than a constructive discussion of why a knife would need sharpened that badly during a bug out? I gave a constructive idea, a leatherman diamond file.

Spyderco H1 steel is an amazing steel. It starts life hardened to mid 50s RC. As its used and sharpened it work hardens into the mid 60s RC! Specifically the serrated edges over the plain edge. I've abused one to the point of attempting to force it rust or patina and could not do it. They are my definite go to knife in time of need.

I'll hit yours and Batman's post at the same time.

Watch a butcher work, or a game processor. They use top quality knives. They will steel the knife often (which takes no appreciable amount of metal but rather draws out the edge). Every so often they will have to actually sharpen them.

Even the best knife won't dress more than a few deer much less dozens. Hair, bone and cartiledge are hard on an edge. Bushcraft chore can be hard on an edge, too.

I'm a tookmaker and know a little 'bout quality steels, heat treat, cryo and other treatments. I've got very good knives in ats34, cpm 10v, A-2, D-2, 1095 etc. They ALL need sharpening and not infrequently. I like a shaving sharp edge. I also like a fairly shallow edge (like a mora). This makes for a wonderfully useful but somewhat delicate edge.

If you're happy using a cold chisel, yeah, you probably don't need to worry about edge maintainence.

Yea, mine spent 3 years being submerged in salt water, and sitting on the back of a boat in salt spray, with nothing but a fresh water rinse to keep mud from turning into concrete inside of it. Only rust was on the laser etching of the name, and it wiped off with a paper towel and wd-40!

Mr. Batman, I own what you speak of, and yes my leatherman almost never leaves my hip. However the original question was hypothetical, assuming that or the others I own are not on me . . . I find it unlikely Ill stumble upon a Cabelas or Dicks in any true survival situation.

No I didn't have an answer to add, this is where I come to find them. . .

Sorry didn't read all of this but saw comments about leather "strap".

Regarding leather strop. I grew up in a saddle shop, when you see somone stropping a blade it probably isn't just leather. Strop usually has something like jewelers rouge worked into it. Dad always had a double sided strop around with fine carbide grit worked into one side with jewelers rouge on the other for finishing. I think current state of the art is diamond dust worked into leather.

I use my leatherman daily and sharpen it once or twice a year. I don't abuse my cutting tools I guess.....
I am still trying to figure this cabelas and Dicks crap comes from. How long do intend to bug out for? Months in the woods without resupply? Years?

I have three light weight blades in my kit. A Mora, a leatherman surge, and a very small lock back. A saw for.cutting wood too.

I also use it daily, as a contractor I think it is the single most valuable thing I have ever bought. It is certainly a go to tool for me however, it gets used and abused. Monthly sharpening is not uncommon for me.

If I started 4 or 5 fires with a magnesium starter it could use a sharpening, let alone after any hunting, whittling etc that could take place in between.


I'm not even thinking about a bug out scenario per say, I spend a significant amount of my free time "galavanting" around the woods (both my own and abroad) fishing and hiking etc. I try to make my way up to the northern kingdom in VT once a year for at least a long weekend, and a little spot me and the guys escape to in NH every now and again. Sometimes our goal is to go "get lost". Im sure you know what I mean.

I just mean, if something went awry while we were out there. I don't know, anything, we could walk away from camp with our fishing stuff and get stranded on the other side of the river in a flash flood, get turned around in a bad fog. God only knows, I try not to imagine scenarios, let alone get myself into them, but it could happen.

What Im saying is Im not going to run into a Dicks out there, and if I do Im not gonna be interested in a sharpener, more like a phone and probably some food.

I hope this helps you see where Im coming from. . .

Most people I know use boron carbide which is known as black diamond. Its not a diamond but its nearly as hard as one. Quality powder can be had from the same ceramics company that created the dragon skin armor. I have a couple of ounces of it in a tupperware container on my work bench. I generally float it in a small amount of mineral oil before applying to the strop. Its great stuff.

All this talk of strops makes me damn happy my parents didn't have one when I was little until I broke her paddle in half at 14 prior to a trip to the basement and the mandatory clutching of the rungs of a wooden chair and not let go unless I wanted 2x as much.

Funny how the beatings ended right there.

What they had was bad enough...

You make some good points, Ridgerunner, and I agree with most of them. I just think that many folks are either too anal or worried about the effects of a dull knife while they are "surviving." You illustrate butchers and other professionals who need to keep their tools sharp for production purposes, and the OP is talking about outdoor survival. Apples and oranges, really.Ultimately it all comes down to making do with what you can find. Crockery, smooth stones, car window, whatever it takes to keep going, and however long it takes to sharpen your blade - no matter what type of steel it is - is all moot when stacked against the situation... which is staying alive.

Another option I like to do is just keep a spare Spyderco sharpmaker file in my bag. They're pretty cheap and light too.

Fine version

It'll do most chores I've found.

ROFL OP you're right there are some non reading dudes in here.



Here's an interesting video.

Thats what Im talking about!

Nice videos guys!

Tanks!

Good ideas and it does pay to learn expedient methods even if you are prepared. I’ve done the bottom of a ceramic mug and the edge of a car window before and they work pretty well. With that said, my multitool pouch has a mini DMT sharpener in the back slot…so I always have one on me, even my EDC. On my sheath knife, I keep a Fallkniven DC4 sharpening stone that has a very aggressive diamond side and a very fine ceramic side.









As mentioned with the leather strop, you can “pre-load” one and it will last a long time. I’ve been using a JRE pack strop here in Afghanistan to keep my blades razor sharp. For my pack, I also include that ceramic “GATCO” or tricepts sharpener as it will sharpen serrations and hooks if needed. Plus I have a DMT duo-fold sharpener for the larger blades.

ROCK6

The important part is undestanding the principle. Basically a hard surface with certain grit will work, harder materials like glass or pottery work better.
Yes, you can use a river stone, and other stones for that matter. Generally they tend to be too tough a grit, so the softer and smoother the surface the better.
Even more practical, if you have a sharp knife as you should, what you can do is improvise a strop with a flat piece of wood and some clay or fine sand as a polishing material.
This wouldnt be as agresive as using a common stone found on the floor and would bring back a razor sharp edge quick given that you have some experience sharpening knives.
Now, for the palm in face thing, if I'm taking a knife Im also taking a nail polish foam board, the ones used by ladies to leave them shiny. This weights nothing, its cheap, small, and VERY effective for stroping a knife back to shaving sharpness. I've used it in everythign from pocket knives, machetes, even an axe a couple days ago that I used to split some wood. Works like a charm, costs almost nothing, occupies little space and is air weight.
FerFAL

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