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Just ordered a 80m Horse Fence Antenna!
4/1/2012 7:41:27 PM
4/1/2012 7:49:27 PM
I wonder about loss from DC resistance because of the stainless steel elements. But on the other hand that would make it more broad banded.
4/1/2012 8:10:52 PM
Interesting. It sounds from the reviews that it is generally only broadband on a single band at a time. If you want a no-tune, multi-band solution a fan dipole is probably still a better choice.
656 ft of fence tape is $90 and the connectors are $4 each:
http://electric-horse-fence.com/electric_fence_conductors/polytape_1.htm
If you already have a balun it wouldn't cost much to experiment on your own.
656 ft of fence tape is $90 and the connectors are $4 each:
http://electric-horse-fence.com/electric_fence_conductors/polytape_1.htm
If you already have a balun it wouldn't cost much to experiment on your own.
4/1/2012 8:40:56 PM
I'd rather use an aluminum tape:
http://www.tractorsupply.com/baygard-reg-by-parmak-high-voltage-equi-tape-656-ft-l-3601075
http://www.tractorsupply.com/baygard-reg-by-parmak-high-voltage-equi-tape-656-ft-l-3601075
4/1/2012 8:43:12 PM
I hope it is not a single band antenna. I thought I saw somewhere it was a 10-80M antenna.
I just send the owner an email asking about it, I will be pissed if it is a single band only. Although I will use it with my At-7000 tuner I don't want to limit myself
Anyone has any experience with it?.
I just send the owner an email asking about it, I will be pissed if it is a single band only. Although I will use it with my At-7000 tuner I don't want to limit myself
Anyone has any experience with it?.
4/1/2012 8:54:17 PM
Antenna Lengths
10 Meters each leg 9 ft. - 20 Meters each leg 17 ft.
40 Meters each leg 33 ft. - 80 Meters each leg 63 ft.
160 Meters each leg 126 ft.
10 Meters each leg 9 ft. - 20 Meters each leg 17 ft.
40 Meters each leg 33 ft. - 80 Meters each leg 63 ft.
160 Meters each leg 126 ft.
4/1/2012 9:02:52 PM
You can make this yourself or buy one from W8AMZ Antennas for about $75.00. No tuner needed on 40m, 20m 17m, 12m.and 10m....80m, 60m, 30m, 15m tuner is needed. I've run legal limit with no issues with an external tuner on the USAF MARS frequencies too.
It is an optimized G5RV variant and during the WPX contest I only had to run a tuner on 80m and 15m. Everyplace else it worked without a tuner On the other bands the internal tuner will take care of any SWR. I did have to run an external tuner for MARS and with my Elecraft amp, but this for 40m, 20m, and 17m it has been fine at full output and no tuner.
I have mine in an inverted V configuration due to limited space. If I had more room I would run a resonant antenna or beam, but this is all I have to work with and it beats a vertical for the low bands.
4/1/2012 9:11:35 PM
Originally Posted By K9-Bob:
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x266/k9-bob/zs6bkw.jpg
You can make this yourself or buy one from W8AMZ Antennas for about $75.00. No tuner needed on 40m, 20m 17m, 12m.....80m, 60m, 30m, 15m and 10m a tuner is needed.
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x266/k9-bob/zs6bkw.jpg
You can make this yourself or buy one from W8AMZ Antennas for about $75.00. No tuner needed on 40m, 20m 17m, 12m.....80m, 60m, 30m, 15m and 10m a tuner is needed.
I am using a 40m G5RV and it works pretty well. The ZS6BKW I hear works very well!
4/1/2012 9:18:43 PM
Originally Posted By wdlsguy:
Antenna Lengths
10 Meters each leg 9 ft. - 20 Meters each leg 17 ft.
40 Meters each leg 33 ft. - 80 Meters each leg 63 ft.
160 Meters each leg 126 ft.
10 Meters each leg 9 ft. - 20 Meters each leg 17 ft.
40 Meters each leg 33 ft. - 80 Meters each leg 63 ft.
160 Meters each leg 126 ft.
Dohhhhhh. That was stupid of me!
It was in the eham review that I saw the multi-band performance, but he clearly states he uses a tuner.
4/1/2012 9:26:34 PM
Any advantages using the 80m horse fence broadband antenna with a tuner vs using the ZS6BKW with a tuner?
4/1/2012 10:27:21 PM
The horse fence antenna is a single band antenna .You will have to adjust the overall length of the antenna for your desired band/frequency. Because it is fed with coax you will have an unacceptably high feed system loss on any other band than what it was initially adjusted for.
I use a tuner for 80m and 15m and for certain MARS frequencies with the ZS6BKW. So is it better than a resonant dipole??
No but because of its design characteristics, I get acceptable line losses and radiate more power than trying to use an 80m dipole fed with coax for multiband operation.
I use a tuner for 80m and 15m and for certain MARS frequencies with the ZS6BKW. So is it better than a resonant dipole??
No but because of its design characteristics, I get acceptable line losses and radiate more power than trying to use an 80m dipole fed with coax for multiband operation.
4/1/2012 10:49:34 PM
shouldn't theoretically the peak (dB) performance of the Z vs Horse fence with a tuner be the same, since the (broad enough) tuner theoretically matches the SWR for the antenna to resonate at the tuned freq? of course the devil is always in the details of matching.
If that's the case then the difference would the difference in bandwidth of the two antennas at the resonate frequencies?
If that's the case then the difference would the difference in bandwidth of the two antennas at the resonate frequencies?
4/2/2012 1:22:00 AM
Your new antenna would work just great with if it were fed with ladder line as opposed to coax. The classic 135 doublet antenna fed with ladder line comes to mind. Coax feed line losses due to the SWR mismatch could result more than half your power being lost in the feed line. That reflected power does not radiate and those losses make your antenna very inefficient.
An antenna tuner does not tune anything or make your antenna more efficient, it simply presents a 50 ohm impedance so that your radio will transmit at full output. Remember that a dummy load also presents a 50 ohm impedance when hooked to a transmitter, but it makes a crappy antenna.
However the same antenna fed with 450 ladder line will have less than 1db line loss and more power will be radiated by the antenna. You can make anything radiate and act as an antenna, but nothing beats a resonant antenna. There is no free lunch....everything is a compromise. For me the ladder line fed ZS6BKW beats a dummy load every time.
If I had the space I would have multiple dipoles for 160m, 80m and 40m or maybe even a few full wave loops. For the higher bands I would have a number of towers and directional antennas. However......its not going to happen on the postage stamp sized city lot my home is at now.
An antenna tuner does not tune anything or make your antenna more efficient, it simply presents a 50 ohm impedance so that your radio will transmit at full output. Remember that a dummy load also presents a 50 ohm impedance when hooked to a transmitter, but it makes a crappy antenna.
However the same antenna fed with 450 ladder line will have less than 1db line loss and more power will be radiated by the antenna. You can make anything radiate and act as an antenna, but nothing beats a resonant antenna. There is no free lunch....everything is a compromise. For me the ladder line fed ZS6BKW beats a dummy load every time.
If I had the space I would have multiple dipoles for 160m, 80m and 40m or maybe even a few full wave loops. For the higher bands I would have a number of towers and directional antennas. However......its not going to happen on the postage stamp sized city lot my home is at now.
4/2/2012 8:54:33 AM
I wonder what kind of stainless is used in this horse fence material?
http://vk1od.net/antenna/conductors/loss.htm
I modeled an 80 meter dipole at 10 meters using 16 AWG 17-7PH wire. SWR was less than 1.7:1 from 3.5 to 4.0 MHz with a 6:1 balun. Only thing is, it was down over 8 dB from the same dipole using copper wire.
A note about stainless steels. Pure austenitic steels do not exhibit ferro magnetism, relative permeability is unity. Many stainless steels are austenitic, but the process of hardening them, or the hardening as a result of working them (eg drawing wire) can create martensite, and they may exhbit µr significant greater than unity. Be suspicious of hardened stainless steel, check it with a magnet. If it is attracted to the magnet, it may have high µr and as a result may have quite high RF resistance. Stainless 316 tends to not develop ferromagnetism with work, 304 a little, and in the table above, 17-7PH has quite high µr in the hardened state (you wouldn't use it in the annealed state).
http://vk1od.net/antenna/conductors/loss.htm
I modeled an 80 meter dipole at 10 meters using 16 AWG 17-7PH wire. SWR was less than 1.7:1 from 3.5 to 4.0 MHz with a 6:1 balun. Only thing is, it was down over 8 dB from the same dipole using copper wire.
4/2/2012 7:16:34 PM
135' across the top fed with ladder line all the way to the tuner.
4/2/2012 7:43:12 PM
Originally Posted By glazer1972:
135' across the top fed with ladder line all the way to the tuner.
135' across the top fed with ladder line all the way to the tuner.
What he said. My last antenna was a loop which I really liked but the doublet is going to be my next antenna.
4/5/2012 12:23:27 AM
http://www.donkeith.com/n4kc/article.php?p=32 Don Keith on resonance.
And this:
http://www.eham.net/articles/16690
And this:
http://www.eham.net/articles/16690
4/5/2012 8:56:32 AM
Originally Posted By HarryStone:
I wonder about loss from DC resistance because of the stainless steel elements.
I wonder about loss from DC resistance because of the stainless steel elements.
IIRC, the conductivity of 18-8 stainless is only about 2 percent of copper.
4/5/2012 8:23:28 PM
Originally Posted By HarryStone:
What he said. My last antenna was a loop which I really liked but the doublet is going to be my next antenna.
Originally Posted By glazer1972:
135' across the top fed with ladder line all the way to the tuner.
135' across the top fed with ladder line all the way to the tuner.
What he said. My last antenna was a loop which I really liked but the doublet is going to be my next antenna.
Y'all are getting as bad as that orange box guy! Have you priced the Palstar balanced line tuner! In this house its tit for tat so that means new furniture.
4/6/2012 10:40:39 AM
Originally Posted By SandHillsHillbilly:
Y'all are getting as bad as that orange box guy! Have you priced the Palstar balanced line tuner! In this house its tit for tat so that means new furniture.
Originally Posted By HarryStone:
What he said. My last antenna was a loop which I really liked but the doublet is going to be my next antenna.
Originally Posted By glazer1972:
135' across the top fed with ladder line all the way to the tuner.
135' across the top fed with ladder line all the way to the tuner.
What he said. My last antenna was a loop which I really liked but the doublet is going to be my next antenna.
Y'all are getting as bad as that orange box guy! Have you priced the Palstar balanced line tuner! In this house its tit for tat so that means new furniture.
No but my mfj-986 tunes it fine. I paid less than 100 bucks for it. It will even tune it on 160m even though the wire is way to short.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
4/6/2012 12:31:29 PM
Dang, I have the 1/2" version of that stuff I was using on my dog pen. Got me thinkin now.
4/6/2012 3:07:06 PM
Sorry don't mean to derail the thread any more than it has been but wanted to respond about balanced line tuners.
True balanced line tuners do not use any type of balun. The MFJ 986 is an excellent tuner except it uses a current balun. Efficiency is lower using a balun. Some of your power going to the antenna is lost in the balun. Proven by running full legal power in that tuner. Check the balun nice and warm isn't it? That was power that could have gone to the antenna. Guys the run qrp would be effected the most. I know trying to justify twice the price is difficult but if your looking for as much as possible of your power reaching the antenna then you have to pay for it. Granted an antenna fed with open feedline is one of the simplist broadband antennas using the right tuner is key to getting maximum efficiency.
True balanced line tuners do not use any type of balun. The MFJ 986 is an excellent tuner except it uses a current balun. Efficiency is lower using a balun. Some of your power going to the antenna is lost in the balun. Proven by running full legal power in that tuner. Check the balun nice and warm isn't it? That was power that could have gone to the antenna. Guys the run qrp would be effected the most. I know trying to justify twice the price is difficult but if your looking for as much as possible of your power reaching the antenna then you have to pay for it. Granted an antenna fed with open feedline is one of the simplist broadband antennas using the right tuner is key to getting maximum efficiency.
4/9/2012 6:36:09 AM
Hobbyist, have you received your antenna yet? Any reports to post about it for the group?
