Originally Posted By rizzo1318:
The max range will be limited by shell size. My 870 with 3" #4 buck and an Extra Full choke lets me drop animals at 60 yards easily. The 2 3/4" shell may be able to reach out a little farther, but my experience has been that I couldn't consistently kill predators past about 40 yards with it.

Originally Posted By Cowboy1967:
I got called a liar for saying I kill coyotes at 60yards with my shotgun on Predatormasters just a few weeks ago.. I agree with you on the 2 3/4" shells being limited to around 40 yards..

In fact that's the same reason I don't hang out on TPP, NPHA, or pretty much any hunting forum anymore.

Originally Posted By jimanaz:


OUCH!! That cut me to the quick Glen. Guess that answers why I haven't seen you around lately.

Your friend,
The SEAL

Originally Posted By Quarterbore:
870s are very interchangable. i would try to find a used 26-inch barrel that takes Rem Choke tubes and for preditors over a call I would want a full choke with #4 buck myself if you stand a good chance on seeing coyotes. Fox, coon, or other smaller preditors can be hunted with a heavy duck or turkey type loads and years past I have got a few foxes out small game gunting with just heavy #6 phesant load so it's not like foxes are hard to kill as long as you are close enough.

Originally Posted By rizzo1318:


Thanks for reminding me why I don't hang out on Predatormasters anymore. It's a place full of know-it-alls, Navy SEALS, Gunsmiths, and guys who kill so many coyotes in their minds that they don't see a need to actually go out and hunt. In fact that's the same reason I don't hang out on TPP, NPHA, or pretty much any hunting forum anymore. I still spend some time on AZ Hunting, though.

I have seen coyotes dropped dead at 70 yards with a shotgun, and I hunted with a guy who shoots a 10ga that I personally saw whack coyotes AND foxes at 100 yards, and I've heard of longer shots with a 10ga. That being said, I've also seen coyotes hit at 40 yards with a 12ga run off into the brush, or guys who have missed entirely with shotguns. It happens, and like everything in life, your results may vary and what works for you may not work for me and vice versa. It's the lack of understanding of those two simple principles that drives me away from the predator hunting forums, where I used to have quite a presence. Now I can't even stand going there.

Short rant over . . . . and good to see you here, Cowboy.

Originally Posted By Brett_Walker:
Is it safe to say that your effectiveness depends a lot of on your specific ammo/shotgun combination? I mean, everyone always says every gun is a gun unto itself. Yes, very much so.

Also your pattern might be where you bead points. 10-4 - this is why it's so important to pattern your chosen shotgun with the load and choke you plan on using in the field.

I have a Charles Daly tactical with pistol grip, ghost ring rear sight and fiber optic front sight, an 18 inch barrel. It currently has the stock extended toothed breaching choke on it that is improved cylinder. However, it is compatible with Remington 870 choke tubes. The downside to I/C chokes is going to be the limited range, but depending on the type of terrain you are hunting that may not be an issue. Your shotgun itself is fine, of course, but pattern it at ranges out to 60 yards and then put on a full or extra full choke and pattern it. You'll see a big difference. What you're going for is an 18" pattern - that's basically your max effective range.

However, I would have to fashion a magazine plug for it out of PVC because it is a 5 round tube instead of a 4 like my 870s and Illinois says you have 3 round capacity if you are using a shotgun. Also, no slugs for coyote hunting, not that I am that much of a glutton for punishment. I have used a stick in a pinch. PVC, wooden dowels, anything that block ths mag capacity will work just fine, as long as you have to disassemble the tube to remove it.

Also, all I have is hornady 00 buck, the hunting stuff that is listed at 1600 fps. If that didn't pattern well, then I would have to go buy more, and I don't have any money. Pattern what you have and you'll see that your range will be limited. You should be able to pick up some Remington 3" #4 buckshot for about $6 a box, which is 5 rounds, but if you are short on cash then just use what you have, after patterning it of course.

Don't get me wrong, I love the shotgun, and it only weighs 6 1/4 lbs unloaded, which is lighter than my AR15 carbine, but I know what I can do with an AR and I have plenty of ammo to practice with. Roger that - I love my AR for predator hunting. See my next couple of answers for why I use a shotgun so much.

What is the advantage to a shotgun over an AR with an aimpoint or an eotech? A fast moving coyote that you might miss at 25 or 30 yards with an AR, you might hit him with a couple pellets from the shotgun, spin him and get him on the second shot? Anything inside of 50 yards is DRT for sure with my shotgun. Hitting close moving targets, especially when there are multiple animals, can be tough with an AR. A red dot optic like you mentioned would certainly help, but keep in mind that you are still only firing 1 bullet, as opposed to 41 .24cal pellet.

But with an AR you can keep shooting past 50-60 yards? Roger that, but often times the brush and cover I am hunting doesn't offer those kinds of shots. See the picture that I posted below - that was my entire shooting lane, and that bobcat is well inside of 30 feet.

Is it more the country and terrain that you hunt in that determines your choice? Yes, that's exactly what determines it. If I am anywhere where I think I may need to shoot farther than 60 yards, then I take my rifle. Inside of that, I take the shotgun. And before you ask, yes I have taken both guns to stand and no, I don't do it that often. I have also tried those over/under rifle/shotgun combos, both from Savage and from Remington, and I don't like either of them. POA/POI varies too much between the two barrels.

Do you have capacity restrictions on predator shotguns in AZ or any other state? Yes, and each state may be different. Here in AZ for predators it's unlimited for rimfire and handgun, 5rnds in magazine for centerfire rifle, and 5rnds for shotgun.

Thanks, I am learning. Feel free to ask any questions, there are lots of good hunters in here that are all helpful guys. Except Maynard - ever since he became the mod for the BOTD forum he became too snooty for us lowly Small Game Hunting & Trapping guys. You hear me Maynard? I'm calling you out!

Originally Posted By Brett_Walker:
Damn, did you shoot him, or just thump him in the head with the barrel? I racked the shotgun and he died of fright.

How do you even detect the predator is there when everything is so close quarters? It seems like they would come in, see you, and get back out before you could even get the bead on them or even see them? This is where decoys can really help you out. E-callers are helpful in thick brush but if you don't have a decoy then you are not seeing as many animals as there are animals seeing you.

41 .30 pellets? are those numbers right? shouldn't it be .24 cal pellets for that high of number? Oops, my bad - you're right it's .24 cal

I don't really have any area that tight to hunt in. Closest thing would be in the timber, and it is still open enough that it would be a tossup and I would still probably choose my rifle. Which is why a shotgun may not be best for you. If you have two guys hunting, though, and one guy is either hand calling or close to the e-caller then you may give him a shotgun for the close-up shots, then let the rifle guy cover everything else. Or maybe you both have rifles - it depends on the setup.

Now, I don't currently know, but If I could hunt some of the Corp of Engineer ground or some of the IDNR ground around the lake, then some of it is as tight what you have in the picture. Sandy flat areas covered with willow trees and other quick growing stuff, with a stream down the middle that feeds into the lake. Looked like prime coyote ground to my uneducated eyes. I can almost guarantee that no one is hunting that thick stuff for predators. In fact I have a guy from CA who came to my last Clinic who had been hunting for a year 'just like he saw on the videos' and hadn't seen anything. He read my book and we chatted on the phone a bit, and within a month he had called in 3 coyotes and a bobcat. All by hunting thick brush. I'm actually going to be posting his pictures and stories up on my blog sometime soon - he's a real testament to success by hunting thick brush.

My copy of of this has shipped already and should be here by the end of the week...

So, You Want To Be A Predator Caller Tony is a great guy to learn from - the man knows how to hunt coyotes, that's for sure, and he does it in a number of different ways. He's really big into using his dog, Gunner, to run and bait coyotes into stand.

I love my sister btw. text message, "Hey, I think i found what I want for my birthday" .........."Ok, order it, I'll pay you back later" Keep in mind that my birthday is a month away Well then, Happy Early Birthday!