Archived Posts » 59,726,163
Is there anything wrong with a 14.5 Midlenth barrel?
5/15/2012 9:01:38 PM
I have a BCM BFH 14.5 midlength and it seems fine, but haven't shot it enough yet. I love how a midlength recoils, but heard you don't gain Anything with a 14.5. And its about equivalent to how a carbine feels. Any truth to that?
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5/15/2012 9:06:17 PM
I feel like it shoots really light (my 14.5 midlength).
It's reliable too. Just shoot it and have fun.
It's reliable too. Just shoot it and have fun.
5/16/2012 10:32:02 AM
The only thing I've found wrong with a 14.5" barrel is that its about 4" too long 
5/16/2012 2:16:00 PM
Originally Posted By TannerB:
I have a BCM BFH 14.5 midlength and it seems fine, but haven't shot it enough yet. I love how a midlength recoils, but heard you don't gain Anything with a 14.5. And its about equivalent to how a carbine feels. Any truth to that?
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I have a BCM BFH 14.5 midlength and it seems fine, but haven't shot it enough yet. I love how a midlength recoils, but heard you don't gain Anything with a 14.5. And its about equivalent to how a carbine feels. Any truth to that?
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People may or may not feel the difference, with a large part of that depending on how in tune those people are with their weapons. I'm a firearm instructor on a large department, and a lot of the guys (including guys on the teams) who have used my midlength weapons couldn't feel any difference. A good muzzle device will make a much larger impact on felt recoil, but that doesn't mean a difference isn't still there between the carbine and midlength.
5/16/2012 3:38:11 PM
Without using a comp, I can feel the difference between the two. On my current one it has a comp so it feels great. But on my new build I plan to just use a flash hider so thats why I was wondering.
5/16/2012 10:26:08 PM
Originally Posted By TannerB:
Without using a comp, I can feel the difference between the two. On my current one it has a comp so it feels great. But on my new build I plan to just use a flash hider so thats why I was wondering.
Without using a comp, I can feel the difference between the two. On my current one it has a comp so it feels great. But on my new build I plan to just use a flash hider so thats why I was wondering.
Recoil is managed with technique, not hardware.
5/16/2012 11:25:00 PM
As a competition shooter I understand that, trust me. But there are tools and tricks to help magnify good techniques
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5/17/2012 9:25:50 AM
Originally Posted By baergunner:
Recoil is managed with technique, not hardware.
Originally Posted By TannerB:
Without using a comp, I can feel the difference between the two. On my current one it has a comp so it feels great. But on my new build I plan to just use a flash hider so thats why I was wondering.
Without using a comp, I can feel the difference between the two. On my current one it has a comp so it feels great. But on my new build I plan to just use a flash hider so thats why I was wondering.
Recoil is managed with technique, not hardware.
Ha-ha-haaaaaa, wait, wait, really?, haaahaaa, phew,,wait..hhahhahhaa...and sound management is achieved by inhaling when firing really quickly not hardware, and muzzle flash signature is dispersed through waving the end of your barrel in a imaginary circle "8" as you fire, not hardware, weapon portability means carring everything in your hands, who needs slings, Im a no hardware kind of guy, wait, wait, hhahhaahhahh
5/17/2012 11:53:04 AM
Originally Posted By volo:
Ha-ha-haaaaaa, wait, wait, really?, haaahaaa, phew,,wait..hhahhahhaa...and sound management is achieved by inhaling when firing really quickly not hardware, and muzzle flash signature is dispersed through waving the end of your barrel in a imaginary circle "8" as you fire, not hardware, weapon portability means carring everything in your hands, who needs slings, Im a no hardware kind of guy, wait, wait, hhahhaahhahh
Originally Posted By baergunner:
Recoil is managed with technique, not hardware.
Originally Posted By TannerB:
Without using a comp, I can feel the difference between the two. On my current one it has a comp so it feels great. But on my new build I plan to just use a flash hider so thats why I was wondering.
Without using a comp, I can feel the difference between the two. On my current one it has a comp so it feels great. But on my new build I plan to just use a flash hider so thats why I was wondering.
Recoil is managed with technique, not hardware.
Ha-ha-haaaaaa, wait, wait, really?, haaahaaa, phew,,wait..hhahhahhaa...and sound management is achieved by inhaling when firing really quickly not hardware, and muzzle flash signature is dispersed through waving the end of your barrel in a imaginary circle "8" as you fire, not hardware, weapon portability means carring everything in your hands, who needs slings, Im a no hardware kind of guy, wait, wait, hhahhaahhahh
To answer the first part of your question, I believe that muzzle breaks and compensators should be relegated to Special Purpose Rifles used by designated marksmen and snipers. These types of devices have obvious benefits in the reduction of recoil during long range precision rifle application on a dynamic battlefield. However, due to there amplified noise, pressure waves and flash particularly when used on a short barrel they have little to no application for general use on an M4 or equivalent duty weapon. All of these negative effects do not overcome the positive which is the management of felt recoil. Also, due to proprietary design most will not work with issued suppressors if not from the same brand.
Don't be confused between a muzzle break and a flash hider. A muzzle break will redirect gas in order to decrease felt recoil. A flash hider will reduce the flash signature being emitted from the muzzle but will not redirect gas or reduce felt recoil. Some manufacturers have attempted to combine both muzzle break and flash hider with varied results but generally the combo will never be as good as a dedicated break or hider.
Recoil will vary based upon the length of the barrel, the length of the gas system and the type of gas system, not to mention shooter ability. There are a lot of users that will attach a muzzle break to a short barrel in an attempt to reduce the felt recoil, but in doing so will actually increase flash due to excessive amounts of unburnt powder and capturing gas in the break, creating a large fireball effect.
On high round count weapons such as military M4's or LE duty weapons, the violent redirection of gas creates immense stress on the metallurgy of the muzzle break and soon the metal will give way. I have seen many muzzle breaks either decrease in effectiveness due to the degradation of the metal, blow out completely or even shear off the weapon during high round count training.
I have tried all kinds of muzzle breaks and flash hiders over the past nearly 2 decades of shooting. I have Surefire FH556-212A Open Prong on both of my HK416's. I have a Surefire MB556K Muzzle Break on my SPR. On all of my other guns I have the standard A2 Birdcage. The open prong flash hider does a great job of reducing the flash to zero on the 416's. Even the short barrel (10.5) does not produce flash when using standard .223 ammo.
The Redback One mantra for this subject is this:
"Recoil is managed with technique, not hardware."
__________________
Jason Falla
Director of Training
REDBACK ONE
Volo, Maybe you should share some of your infinite wisdom with Redback One. Hell, Jason might even want to take a class from you!!!
5/17/2012 2:39:32 PM
I think that the muzzle device has more say in recoil and split times if we were just talking strictly hardware.
In my experience using my KAC SR-15 and my BCM 14.5, which to be fair both have brakes on them, do have a smoother recoil impulse due to the slower carrier velocity.
Also, comparing my 16 carbine gas system build to my BCM A2/A4 rifle length clone, the recoil is noticeably softer to me. There may also be a hidden influence in the A2 stock and lengthier barrel.
After experiencing midlengths I find no reason to own a carbine gas length other than in a 11.5 SBR format.
In my experience using my KAC SR-15 and my BCM 14.5, which to be fair both have brakes on them, do have a smoother recoil impulse due to the slower carrier velocity.
Also, comparing my 16 carbine gas system build to my BCM A2/A4 rifle length clone, the recoil is noticeably softer to me. There may also be a hidden influence in the A2 stock and lengthier barrel.
After experiencing midlengths I find no reason to own a carbine gas length other than in a 11.5 SBR format.
5/17/2012 3:51:57 PM
Originally Posted By baergunner:
To answer the first part of your question, I believe that muzzle breaks and compensators should be relegated to Special Purpose Rifles used by designated marksmen and snipers. These types of devices have obvious benefits in the reduction of recoil during long range precision rifle application on a dynamic battlefield. However, due to there amplified noise, pressure waves and flash particularly when used on a short barrel they have little to no application for general use on an M4 or equivalent duty weapon. All of these negative effects do not overcome the positive which is the management of felt recoil. Also, due to proprietary design most will not work with issued suppressors if not from the same brand.
Don't be confused between a muzzle break and a flash hider. A muzzle break will redirect gas in order to decrease felt recoil. A flash hider will reduce the flash signature being emitted from the muzzle but will not redirect gas or reduce felt recoil. Some manufacturers have attempted to combine both muzzle break and flash hider with varied results but generally the combo will never be as good as a dedicated break or hider.
Recoil will vary based upon the length of the barrel, the length of the gas system and the type of gas system, not to mention shooter ability. There are a lot of users that will attach a muzzle break to a short barrel in an attempt to reduce the felt recoil, but in doing so will actually increase flash due to excessive amounts of unburnt powder and capturing gas in the break, creating a large fireball effect.
On high round count weapons such as military M4's or LE duty weapons, the violent redirection of gas creates immense stress on the metallurgy of the muzzle break and soon the metal will give way. I have seen many muzzle breaks either decrease in effectiveness due to the degradation of the metal, blow out completely or even shear off the weapon during high round count training.
I have tried all kinds of muzzle breaks and flash hiders over the past nearly 2 decades of shooting. I have Surefire FH556-212A Open Prong on both of my HK416's. I have a Surefire MB556K Muzzle Break on my SPR. On all of my other guns I have the standard A2 Birdcage. The open prong flash hider does a great job of reducing the flash to zero on the 416's. Even the short barrel (10.5) does not produce flash when using standard .223 ammo.
The Redback One mantra for this subject is this:
"Recoil is managed with technique, not hardware."
__________________
Jason Falla
Director of Training
REDBACK ONE
Volo, Maybe you should share some of your infinite wisdom with Redback One. Hell, Jason might even want to take a class from you!!!
Originally Posted By volo:
Ha-ha-haaaaaa, wait, wait, really?, haaahaaa, phew,,wait..hhahhahhaa...and sound management is achieved by inhaling when firing really quickly not hardware, and muzzle flash signature is dispersed through waving the end of your barrel in a imaginary circle "8" as you fire, not hardware, weapon portability means carring everything in your hands, who needs slings, Im a no hardware kind of guy, wait, wait, hhahhaahhahh
Originally Posted By baergunner:
Recoil is managed with technique, not hardware.
Originally Posted By TannerB:
Without using a comp, I can feel the difference between the two. On my current one it has a comp so it feels great. But on my new build I plan to just use a flash hider so thats why I was wondering.
Without using a comp, I can feel the difference between the two. On my current one it has a comp so it feels great. But on my new build I plan to just use a flash hider so thats why I was wondering.
Recoil is managed with technique, not hardware.
Ha-ha-haaaaaa, wait, wait, really?, haaahaaa, phew,,wait..hhahhahhaa...and sound management is achieved by inhaling when firing really quickly not hardware, and muzzle flash signature is dispersed through waving the end of your barrel in a imaginary circle "8" as you fire, not hardware, weapon portability means carring everything in your hands, who needs slings, Im a no hardware kind of guy, wait, wait, hhahhaahhahh
To answer the first part of your question, I believe that muzzle breaks and compensators should be relegated to Special Purpose Rifles used by designated marksmen and snipers. These types of devices have obvious benefits in the reduction of recoil during long range precision rifle application on a dynamic battlefield. However, due to there amplified noise, pressure waves and flash particularly when used on a short barrel they have little to no application for general use on an M4 or equivalent duty weapon. All of these negative effects do not overcome the positive which is the management of felt recoil. Also, due to proprietary design most will not work with issued suppressors if not from the same brand.
Don't be confused between a muzzle break and a flash hider. A muzzle break will redirect gas in order to decrease felt recoil. A flash hider will reduce the flash signature being emitted from the muzzle but will not redirect gas or reduce felt recoil. Some manufacturers have attempted to combine both muzzle break and flash hider with varied results but generally the combo will never be as good as a dedicated break or hider.
Recoil will vary based upon the length of the barrel, the length of the gas system and the type of gas system, not to mention shooter ability. There are a lot of users that will attach a muzzle break to a short barrel in an attempt to reduce the felt recoil, but in doing so will actually increase flash due to excessive amounts of unburnt powder and capturing gas in the break, creating a large fireball effect.
On high round count weapons such as military M4's or LE duty weapons, the violent redirection of gas creates immense stress on the metallurgy of the muzzle break and soon the metal will give way. I have seen many muzzle breaks either decrease in effectiveness due to the degradation of the metal, blow out completely or even shear off the weapon during high round count training.
I have tried all kinds of muzzle breaks and flash hiders over the past nearly 2 decades of shooting. I have Surefire FH556-212A Open Prong on both of my HK416's. I have a Surefire MB556K Muzzle Break on my SPR. On all of my other guns I have the standard A2 Birdcage. The open prong flash hider does a great job of reducing the flash to zero on the 416's. Even the short barrel (10.5) does not produce flash when using standard .223 ammo.
The Redback One mantra for this subject is this:
"Recoil is managed with technique, not hardware."
__________________
Jason Falla
Director of Training
REDBACK ONE
Volo, Maybe you should share some of your infinite wisdom with Redback One. Hell, Jason might even want to take a class from you!!!
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we got it. Sound technique should always be used. Everyone, well most anyway, understand your point of view. But you are somewhat misguided by saying comps/brakes don't serve a purpose on duty weapons. Jason Falla or whoever may be a great trainer. Probably is. It's his job to drill into his students heads that proper technique usage is paramount. So of course that is the mantra. But comps/brakes do help deal with recoil. Hell, that's pretty much their whole reason to exist is mitigating recoil. And on an AR some may value quick follow-up shots more than flash reduction. That doesn't necessarily mean they and their choices are wrong. And some of the best trained people in the world use comps/brakes so the idea that anybody using one just needs more training doesn't apply. To each his own. Choose what works for you.
And the only reason I really felt the need to address these points is because this kind of stuff comes up so very often. And there is always some commando (not directed at you, directed at what I have witnessed during these discussions) that gives those cute little lines about proper technique. If they didn't work then every competitive shooter that uses them has been wasting his or her money and just needs "technique".
I fully 100% agree with you about technique. Good form is always a good thing. Just don't write off people and their decisions to go about things differently than you as needing more skill/training. You don't feel AR's require the brakes, then fine. But the next man may get some real value out of his and it doesn't mean he's wrong.
