Archived Posts » 59,821,464
Is a 1-4x a waste? Do I need more mag? Any Experts HELP!!!
4/24/2012 12:06:23 AM
I have been doing a lot of reading, and I am still not sure what to do.
Funds and limited
I just bought my AR15, and i want to do some target shooting. I have played with a lot of people's AR15s and seen plenty of set ups. I know I want something for CQB like a red dot, but i feel like they are only good at one thing. they do CQB really well, but besides that, nothing else. i know shoot at paper with 1x will get old quickly.
so i KNOW i want magnification, but i still want the option of a red dot. i feel like a red with magnifier is a waste because thats about $800-1000 for a good set up once you throw in mounts. i can get a nice piece of glass for that.
BUT!!!!!!!!!! I am worried that 4x wont be enough magnification for shooting long distance. The more i read, i feel like 10x is the minimum for long distance shots.
i feel like if i get a 1-4x that will do all of what i want pretty good, not perfect, but it will give me what i am looking for in all categories decently.
anyone have any experience in this? own one? used one?
any feedback on these would be nice, havent heard much from anyone who owns one.
Funds and limited
I just bought my AR15, and i want to do some target shooting. I have played with a lot of people's AR15s and seen plenty of set ups. I know I want something for CQB like a red dot, but i feel like they are only good at one thing. they do CQB really well, but besides that, nothing else. i know shoot at paper with 1x will get old quickly.
so i KNOW i want magnification, but i still want the option of a red dot. i feel like a red with magnifier is a waste because thats about $800-1000 for a good set up once you throw in mounts. i can get a nice piece of glass for that.
BUT!!!!!!!!!! I am worried that 4x wont be enough magnification for shooting long distance. The more i read, i feel like 10x is the minimum for long distance shots.
i feel like if i get a 1-4x that will do all of what i want pretty good, not perfect, but it will give me what i am looking for in all categories decently.
anyone have any experience in this? own one? used one?
any feedback on these would be nice, havent heard much from anyone who owns one.
4/24/2012 12:25:21 AM
Burris 332
4/24/2012 12:31:03 AM
How long is long distance to you?
What size is the target?
With 4x, you should be able to shoot to the effective range of your rifle (if 5.56).
What size is the target?
With 4x, you should be able to shoot to the effective range of your rifle (if 5.56).
4/24/2012 12:44:02 AM
just bought a Colt LT6720 5.56, my range goes to 1000m.
i would like to put tight groups at 100m, but acquire targets quickly on 1x, like a red dot
but i would like to be able to hit at least hit paper at 400m, not bullseye, but at least paper
i would like to put tight groups at 100m, but acquire targets quickly on 1x, like a red dot
but i would like to be able to hit at least hit paper at 400m, not bullseye, but at least paper
4/24/2012 1:04:16 AM
Originally Posted By amedeo1227:
I have been doing a lot of reading, and I am still not sure what to do.
Funds and limited
I just bought my AR15, and i want to do some target shooting. I have played with a lot of people's AR15s and seen plenty of set ups. I know I want something for CQB like a red dot, but i feel like they are only good at one thing. they do CQB really well, but besides that, nothing else. i know shoot at paper with 1x will get old quickly.
so i KNOW i want magnification, but i still want the option of a red dot. i feel like a red with magnifier is a waste because thats about $800-1000 for a good set up once you throw in mounts. i can get a nice piece of glass for that.
BUT!!!!!!!!!! I am worried that 4x wont be enough magnification for shooting long distance. The more i read, i feel like 10x is the minimum for long distance shots.
i feel like if i get a 1-4x that will do all of what i want pretty good, not perfect, but it will give me what i am looking for in all categories decently.
anyone have any experience in this? own one? used one?
any feedback on these would be nice, havent heard much from anyone who owns one.
I have been doing a lot of reading, and I am still not sure what to do.
Funds and limited
I just bought my AR15, and i want to do some target shooting. I have played with a lot of people's AR15s and seen plenty of set ups. I know I want something for CQB like a red dot, but i feel like they are only good at one thing. they do CQB really well, but besides that, nothing else. i know shoot at paper with 1x will get old quickly.
so i KNOW i want magnification, but i still want the option of a red dot. i feel like a red with magnifier is a waste because thats about $800-1000 for a good set up once you throw in mounts. i can get a nice piece of glass for that.
BUT!!!!!!!!!! I am worried that 4x wont be enough magnification for shooting long distance. The more i read, i feel like 10x is the minimum for long distance shots.
i feel like if i get a 1-4x that will do all of what i want pretty good, not perfect, but it will give me what i am looking for in all categories decently.
anyone have any experience in this? own one? used one?
any feedback on these would be nice, havent heard much from anyone who owns one.
Well what are you going to do with a scope? Target shoot only or defensive purposes as well. Id recommend a 3-9x for target shooting and a 1-4 or 1-6 for everything overall
4/24/2012 1:07:14 AM
I had the 1x4x24 PA scope but decided that I needed more. If I were you, I would buy a 2-7 or a 3-9
4/24/2012 1:07:29 AM
Originally Posted By amedeo1227:
just bought a Colt LT6720 5.56, my range goes to 1000m.
i would like to put tight groups at 100m, but acquire targets quickly on 1x, like a red dot
but i would like to be able to hit at least hit paper at 400m, not bullseye, but at least paper
just bought a Colt LT6720 5.56, my range goes to 1000m.
i would like to put tight groups at 100m, but acquire targets quickly on 1x, like a red dot
but i would like to be able to hit at least hit paper at 400m, not bullseye, but at least paper
Sound like you just want to target shoot so i suggest a 3-9.
4/24/2012 8:26:39 AM
Originally Posted By amedeo1227:
just bought a Colt LT6720 5.56, my range goes to 1000m.
i would like to put tight groups at 100m, but acquire targets quickly on 1x, like a red dot
but i would like to be able to hit at least hit paper at 400m, not bullseye, but at least paper
just bought a Colt LT6720 5.56, my range goes to 1000m.
i would like to put tight groups at 100m, but acquire targets quickly on 1x, like a red dot
but i would like to be able to hit at least hit paper at 400m, not bullseye, but at least paper
You can do all that with irons. it is all on your "paper size"
4/24/2012 9:04:46 AM
Originally Posted By amedeo1227:
just bought a Colt LT6720 5.56, my range goes to 1000m.
i would like to put tight groups at 100m, but acquire targets quickly on 1x, like a red dot
but i would like to be able to hit at least hit paper at 400m, not bullseye, but at least paper
just bought a Colt LT6720 5.56, my range goes to 1000m.
i would like to put tight groups at 100m, but acquire targets quickly on 1x, like a red dot
but i would like to be able to hit at least hit paper at 400m, not bullseye, but at least paper
1-4x24 will be more than plentiful for this. If you have any doubts just get a 1-6x24 and you can sleep more comfortable at night. Check out the SWFA deal that is about to take place on their new 1-6x24 scope. I believe there is a thread on this forum that will take you to the scope.
4/24/2012 9:34:53 AM
I went the 1-4x route with my LAR-8 (.308, mind you) and I was target shooting at 100-250 yds. I felt I needed more magnification and ended up going with a leupold 3-9x40 VX-R patrol model. Maybe it's just me, but I can comfortably shoot with both eyes open on 3x. I would recommend irons for cqb and a 3-9x40 for targets. Maybe a vortex or primary arms RDS later on when funds allow.
4/24/2012 10:07:36 AM
A high quality 1-4 X24 with an illuminated reticle will do everything you want it to do.....you just need bigger targets.....preferably made out of steel and ring when you hit 'em...
4/24/2012 11:08:29 AM
Originally Posted By amedeo1227:
just bought a Colt LT6720 5.56, my range goes to 1000m.
i would like to put tight groups at 100m, but acquire targets quickly on 1x, like a red dot
but i would like to be able to hit at least hit paper at 400m, not bullseye, but at least paper
just bought a Colt LT6720 5.56, my range goes to 1000m.
i would like to put tight groups at 100m, but acquire targets quickly on 1x, like a red dot
but i would like to be able to hit at least hit paper at 400m, not bullseye, but at least paper
I am not sure where you got that number from, but 1000m is a very optimistic range for 5.56 and it will take a lot more than just a good scope to be accurate beyond even 400m.
Unless your eyes are such that you need the magnification to see the target, a 1-4/1-6 is a great scope for 5.56. I agree with the others in this thread and if I were you I would check out their recommendations.
4/24/2012 11:28:52 AM
I don't want to discourage your plans, but long range shooting and "funds are limited" don't play well together. Target shooting at 400 yd and beyond is going to require a good scope and a really nice spotting scope. Shooting itty bitty groups at 100 yards can be done with a decent (not expensive) scope, but you have to decide which is more important to you: CQB or shooting groups. If it is shooting groups, then slap a decent higher magnification scope on it. If it is CQB, then get a red dot or reflex sight. If you want both then get a low power variable 1-4x (in your price range), 1-6x ((higher priced), or 1-8x (even higher), but it will be a compromise (good at both but not great at either).
4/24/2012 11:55:39 AM
A 1-4x should work fine for ya.
A lot of manufacturers are starting to come out with a 1-6x.
A lot of manufacturers are starting to come out with a 1-6x.
4/24/2012 11:59:33 AM
Maybe the OP meant the range he/she shoots at has lanes out to 1000 yards, rather than his/her rifle will shoot out to 1000 yards.
A.W.D.
A.W.D.
4/24/2012 7:12:06 PM
I am not sure where you got that number from, but 1000m is a very optimistic range for 5.56 and it will take a lot more than just a good scope to be accurate beyond even 400m.
i am not saying with my ar15, i am saying my range that i shoot at will allow me to shoot targets at 1000m, i know i need a different gun beyond 600m, truthfully beyond 400m i will probably get a bolt gun in .308, but that is not till i am good with the ar15 up to 400m
i think i want a 1-4x, not a 3-9 or something like that because it doesnt give me the 1x i am looking for in CQB, i know irons willl do and be just fine with practice, but i am looking for a good optice for the distances of 50m-300m, i know i will need more mag for presision shots out to 300-400m, but for 50m-200m i think the 1-4 will be fine.
i am not ready to drop $800 on a 1-6 scope right now, thats why i am looking at the 1-4x because i can still get good glass for under $500
i am almost positive of what i want i just wanted yall to share your experiences and make sure i am not missing something
i feel for the most part that everyone who i talk to that have the 1-4x vortex viper pst is very happy, and u cant beat their warrenty, so i think it might be a done deal!!!!
4/25/2012 12:47:11 AM
I was recently in somewhat the same boat as you. I wanted more magnification than 4x.
If I'd have had the money I would have gone with the the leupy vx-r 2-7 with the firedot reticle. However, my funds got drained unexpectdly and I only had enough for a Nikon monarch 2-8. NOt sure how I'll like the standard crosshair but i think the 2-8x will do fine for me.
If I'd have had the money I would have gone with the the leupy vx-r 2-7 with the firedot reticle. However, my funds got drained unexpectdly and I only had enough for a Nikon monarch 2-8. NOt sure how I'll like the standard crosshair but i think the 2-8x will do fine for me.
4/25/2012 1:09:13 AM
Originally Posted By YANKEEFAN:
I was recently in somewhat the same boat as you. I wanted more magnification than 4x.
If I'd have had the money I would have gone with the the leupy vx-r 2-7 with the firedot reticle. However, my funds got drained unexpectdly and I only had enough for a Nikon monarch 2-8. NOt sure how I'll like the standard crosshair but i think the 2-8x will do fine for me.
I was recently in somewhat the same boat as you. I wanted more magnification than 4x.
If I'd have had the money I would have gone with the the leupy vx-r 2-7 with the firedot reticle. However, my funds got drained unexpectdly and I only had enough for a Nikon monarch 2-8. NOt sure how I'll like the standard crosshair but i think the 2-8x will do fine for me.
i have a setup on my ar i feel works both ways, although a more budget setup that works for me. i used a mueller 2-7 illuminated 1 mil center dot scope with a bushnell micro trs-25 riding on a weaver picatinny mount upper scope clamp. its great up to 50 yards with red dot head up both eyes open quick shooting and the 7x is sufficient for me @ 300 yards to hit 3-4 " groups. its not a battle setup but works for me at the range well. total cost...$250. heres a pic
4/25/2012 12:16:40 PM
I absolutely love 1-4x optics. In fact, I am trading my Aimpoint T1 for a Trijicon TR24 1-4x with the triangle reticle. It is almost as fast as a red dot on 1x and makes 100-200 yard shots pretty easy on 4x. Shooting 0-100 yards is the most important factor for me. Not only is that where the vast majority of my target shooting & plinking take place, but where the vast majority of civilian self defense takes place. In fact, self defensive shootings much past 21 yards starts getting really difficult to explain.
Also, I have a pretty bad astigmatism. So the 1x on a magnified optic actually works better than a red dot for me. One big downside to a 1-4x (or any magnified optic) is head/eye placement behind the optic. It is much less forgiving than a red dot optic, particularly in awkward shooting positions.
Consider getting a 1-4x and a 2.5-10x optic in quick detach rings or mounts. Or even a red dot and a higher power optic. That way you can have the best of both worlds.
Also, I have a pretty bad astigmatism. So the 1x on a magnified optic actually works better than a red dot for me. One big downside to a 1-4x (or any magnified optic) is head/eye placement behind the optic. It is much less forgiving than a red dot optic, particularly in awkward shooting positions.
Consider getting a 1-4x and a 2.5-10x optic in quick detach rings or mounts. Or even a red dot and a higher power optic. That way you can have the best of both worlds.
4/26/2012 12:08:22 PM
I bought a Leupold 1.25-4x20 VX-R patrol SPR Firedot specifically because I shoot dynamic disciplines from 25m out to 500m, Fig.14 (hun heads) close in out to Fig 11's (charging man) at distance. It isn't a precision discipline as the target areas are relatively large and there is a lot of multi-positional shooting on timed exposures, run downs etc. However, when zeroing at 200m I have put in groups just as tight as I did with a higher mag scope, and I fare better in competition as the Patrol is far more suited to the close in stuff with it's illuminated centre dot, yet can still perform at distance...I did have reservations about distance shooting at first because the stadia are quite a lot thicker than on my Mk IV's, but in the event it did fine..that dot is good at all distances I shoot
4/26/2012 2:12:50 PM
more. 3 gun targets are getting smaller and harder to hit, I need more than 4x personally.
4/26/2012 3:47:10 PM
I found myself in a simliar position as yourself a few months ago. I ditched my T-1 for a 1-4x (tried a NF NXS, USO, SWFA, Leupold, SWFA). However, I realized I never fully utilized the 4x. So I went back to the red dot. The 1-4 dominates the environment you are in. If you live in a farm, sure go for the 1-4. But if live in a neighborhood, a red dot will more then suffice.
You will be surprised what you can do with a QUALITY red dot past 100 yards. So long you have solid fundamentals.
You will be surprised what you can do with a QUALITY red dot past 100 yards. So long you have solid fundamentals.
4/26/2012 4:49:40 PM
Originally Posted By Junky:
Burris 332
Burris 332
Primary Arms 3X Compact. Just like the Burris, abt $150 less. I've had mine for abt a year and it is rock solid. I replaced the original mount with a LaRue LT681. The PA 1-4 is nice too. You cant go wrong with PA.
4/27/2012 12:50:07 AM
I would say either 1-6 or a 10x or higher with a offset mini red dot like a fast fire.
4/27/2012 6:46:18 AM
OP, magnification is fun to have.
But a red dot will cover 99 percent of all shooting scenarios. I would recommend that anyone getting their first AR start with a straight up RD. Stretch a little, to a Trijicon Micro H-1 4moa. Get really really good with it; then decide whether you want to add capability.
The 1-4s are fantastic, but they are a LOT heavier than a micro. They have different battery requirements as well.
With practice, you'll be hitting soda cans at 100yds with a good red dot.
Trying to get a 1-4 with fancy reticle for $500 is sort of like ordering the filet mignon at Denny's. OTOH for $500 you can get a combat proven red dot that weighs about 1/4 as much as the zoom and its mount. Consider this: an H-1 weighs LESS THAN THE MOUNT YOU WILL NEED FOR YOUR ZOOMBA. Then the zoom optic will be 16 oz AT LEAST.
Magnification would be step TWO for any first timer, IMO. If you want to play at the range, pick up a Super Sniper 10x (no zoom) for a couple hundred bucks and have fun! But when you go home, remove it and reattach your H-1 on a Larue mount and tuck it behind your nightstand. Just sayin.'
But a red dot will cover 99 percent of all shooting scenarios. I would recommend that anyone getting their first AR start with a straight up RD. Stretch a little, to a Trijicon Micro H-1 4moa. Get really really good with it; then decide whether you want to add capability.
The 1-4s are fantastic, but they are a LOT heavier than a micro. They have different battery requirements as well.
With practice, you'll be hitting soda cans at 100yds with a good red dot.
Trying to get a 1-4 with fancy reticle for $500 is sort of like ordering the filet mignon at Denny's. OTOH for $500 you can get a combat proven red dot that weighs about 1/4 as much as the zoom and its mount. Consider this: an H-1 weighs LESS THAN THE MOUNT YOU WILL NEED FOR YOUR ZOOMBA. Then the zoom optic will be 16 oz AT LEAST.
Magnification would be step TWO for any first timer, IMO. If you want to play at the range, pick up a Super Sniper 10x (no zoom) for a couple hundred bucks and have fun! But when you go home, remove it and reattach your H-1 on a Larue mount and tuck it behind your nightstand. Just sayin.'
4/27/2012 6:53:34 AM
Originally Posted By ihon:
Consider getting a 1-4x and a 2.5-10x optic in quick detach rings or mounts.
Consider getting a 1-4x and a 2.5-10x optic in quick detach rings or mounts.
i think this is what i am going to do, except maybe the second optic would be much higher mag, at the least 4-16, maybe more like 5-20 or 5-25.
that way, when i buy another rifle(
) in a bigger caliber, i can just switch it to the next gun. but i still have to build up to that.
thanks for all the help
4/27/2012 7:30:02 AM
You can always use a scope with a micro red dot or even an offset Aimpoint.
4/27/2012 9:28:43 PM
I am in the same boat as the original poster. I know I want the Leupold VX-R ... the hard part is choosing between the 1-4x20mm or the 2-7x33mm. I like the fact that with this new VX-R model the red dot in the middle of the standard duplex can be turned off if needed making it a traditional scope with crosshairs or turned on when needed. I am looking at it for primarily hunting applications with a maximum range of 100 yards. For this range the 1-4 is perfect but I like the extra light gathering of the 2-7x33.
4/28/2012 8:50:08 AM
I looked at the vortex 1-6 at the NRA show. Was VERY impressed.
It is just like a standard red dot at 1x. Then turns into a nice magnified optic when you dial up the power .
I am running a nf 2-10 on my recce but am going to consider the vortex when it comes out. My only concern is I shoot longer range and more magnification.
It is just like a standard red dot at 1x. Then turns into a nice magnified optic when you dial up the power .
I am running a nf 2-10 on my recce but am going to consider the vortex when it comes out. My only concern is I shoot longer range and more magnification.
4/28/2012 9:14:44 AM
Originally Posted By jmt1271:
I looked at the vortex 1-6 at the NRA show. Was VERY impressed.
It is just like a standard red dot at 1x. Then turns into a nice magnified optic when you dial up the power .
I am running a nf 2-10 on my recce but am going to consider the vortex when it comes out. My only concern is I shoot longer range and more magnification.
I looked at the vortex 1-6 at the NRA show. Was VERY impressed.
It is just like a standard red dot at 1x. Then turns into a nice magnified optic when you dial up the power .
I am running a nf 2-10 on my recce but am going to consider the vortex when it comes out. My only concern is I shoot longer range and more magnification.
Well for me 6 power is good for 600 yards if you have a good reticle on your scope right. Like the grsc 1-6.
4/28/2012 9:57:28 AM
Originally Posted By amedeo1227:
I have been doing a lot of reading, and I am still not sure what to do...
I have been doing a lot of reading, and I am still not sure what to do...
Go here: FAQs
