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Another 'Which ACOG' Question
4/28/2012 12:42:54 PM
Before y'all jump on me with both feet... yes, I did read the stickies. 
Sorry to trouble you guys with this, but I could use some help deciding which ACOG is right for me. This optic will be mounted on a CMMG M4gery (14.7"/1:7) used for both plinking and a go-to when the zombies attack.
There are a couple great reference threads here and elsewhere (linked below) which I have read thoroughly, but I'm still hoping for some current feedback, as models and configurations change, and I don't have the benefit of seeing the different optics in person and can't afford to make a $1000+ mistake. Your real-world input is going to be very helpful here.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_18/518729_.html
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_18/346233_.html
http://demigodllc.com/articles/fighting-carbine-optics-for-the-ar-15/?p=1
I've been looking at the TA31 (and possibly the TA33 for its longer eye relief), but there are a number of variants and would appreciate some input from you experienced/knowledagable fellas about which one would be the best fit.
Here are some of the things rolling around in my head:
Reticle: Chevron seems the most popular for precision work, and I'm told that the human brain tends to process angles faster than curves, meaning you can come on moving targets faster, but that new horseshoe looks interesting. Any discussion on pros/cons would be appreciated.
Color: I remember reading either here (or maybe it was Sniper's Hide) that the particular wavelength of green is unique, and has no duplicate in nature, meaning that no matter the background, it will always stand out. However, red would probably be easier on night vision, and is what's used in the RCO, so I have to figure there's a reason for that. Perhaps amber is a nice happy medium?
BDC: Though I'm mounting this on top of an 14.7"/1:7 barrel, I'm wondering if selecting one of the other models (RCO M4/A4/M150?) might not offer a bit of versatility. I don't mind spending a few extra bucks if it gets me something useful, though I'm not someone who needs to have what's standard issue just because it's 'tacti-cool'. The horizontal stadia are useless to me, but I'm open to suggestion. My hope here is that because I can only afford one optic, that I have some flexibility to swap it between my present M4 barrel and a 16" or 20" barrel should I purchase a different upper at some point in the future, and with a few azimuth adjustments, have a "multi-rifle" optic. There's also the consideration of which rounds are used - since this is a defensive rifle, I'm likely to use heavier rounds, rather than the weight that the RCO model is designed for.
All in all, I'm completely open to suggestion. Hope some of you guys can chime in here and steer me in the right direction.
Sorry to trouble you guys with this, but I could use some help deciding which ACOG is right for me. This optic will be mounted on a CMMG M4gery (14.7"/1:7) used for both plinking and a go-to when the zombies attack.
There are a couple great reference threads here and elsewhere (linked below) which I have read thoroughly, but I'm still hoping for some current feedback, as models and configurations change, and I don't have the benefit of seeing the different optics in person and can't afford to make a $1000+ mistake. Your real-world input is going to be very helpful here.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_18/518729_.html
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_18/346233_.html
http://demigodllc.com/articles/fighting-carbine-optics-for-the-ar-15/?p=1
I've been looking at the TA31 (and possibly the TA33 for its longer eye relief), but there are a number of variants and would appreciate some input from you experienced/knowledagable fellas about which one would be the best fit.
Here are some of the things rolling around in my head:
Reticle: Chevron seems the most popular for precision work, and I'm told that the human brain tends to process angles faster than curves, meaning you can come on moving targets faster, but that new horseshoe looks interesting. Any discussion on pros/cons would be appreciated.
Color: I remember reading either here (or maybe it was Sniper's Hide) that the particular wavelength of green is unique, and has no duplicate in nature, meaning that no matter the background, it will always stand out. However, red would probably be easier on night vision, and is what's used in the RCO, so I have to figure there's a reason for that. Perhaps amber is a nice happy medium?
BDC: Though I'm mounting this on top of an 14.7"/1:7 barrel, I'm wondering if selecting one of the other models (RCO M4/A4/M150?) might not offer a bit of versatility. I don't mind spending a few extra bucks if it gets me something useful, though I'm not someone who needs to have what's standard issue just because it's 'tacti-cool'. The horizontal stadia are useless to me, but I'm open to suggestion. My hope here is that because I can only afford one optic, that I have some flexibility to swap it between my present M4 barrel and a 16" or 20" barrel should I purchase a different upper at some point in the future, and with a few azimuth adjustments, have a "multi-rifle" optic. There's also the consideration of which rounds are used - since this is a defensive rifle, I'm likely to use heavier rounds, rather than the weight that the RCO model is designed for.
All in all, I'm completely open to suggestion. Hope some of you guys can chime in here and steer me in the right direction.
4/28/2012 3:48:35 PM
I have the TA11f-g (3.5x green chevron and .223 flat-top BDC). I chose it over the other two you mentioned for a few reasons, BAC (both eye open shooting ability which apparently not as applicable with the TA33), greater magnification than TA33 but not so much it was difficult to use BAC as it was with 4x (that is a personal preference), greatest eye-relief over both of them (2.39") which has come in handy shooting 3gun competitions, and a wider field of view than TA33.
As for choice of reticle I also chose the chevron, .223 flat-top BDC, and green reticle. I felt it was more precise than the others (debatable) and take down silhouettes fairly quickly to 330yds without misses if I do my part. The BDC is close enough to 350yds (haven't tried further) with .223 55gr or m193 ammo from an 18" barrel.
Reticle green color was chosen over red because of reports and actually seeing the reticle flare under direct overhead sunlight unless tape covered the fiber optic. I did not and have not had this issue with my scope. I also feared losing it in fall color leaves (being from MN originally), which brings me to amber. I have seen one picture on here with amber against fall color somebody took and it appeared to be quite difficult seeing. I also feared green being lost in foliage during the spring-summer months but somebody again had a picture against the greenest color leaves they could find and the reticle still stood out quite well. I personally have not been able to find a green that it washes out on either. I have no idea how green works with night vision. I suspect a bright chevron to be seen but may wash out over a lighter color target???
ETA - I would say your choice is more over the TA11 and the TA31RCO-M4CP and forget the TA33.
As for choice of reticle I also chose the chevron, .223 flat-top BDC, and green reticle. I felt it was more precise than the others (debatable) and take down silhouettes fairly quickly to 330yds without misses if I do my part. The BDC is close enough to 350yds (haven't tried further) with .223 55gr or m193 ammo from an 18" barrel.
Reticle green color was chosen over red because of reports and actually seeing the reticle flare under direct overhead sunlight unless tape covered the fiber optic. I did not and have not had this issue with my scope. I also feared losing it in fall color leaves (being from MN originally), which brings me to amber. I have seen one picture on here with amber against fall color somebody took and it appeared to be quite difficult seeing. I also feared green being lost in foliage during the spring-summer months but somebody again had a picture against the greenest color leaves they could find and the reticle still stood out quite well. I personally have not been able to find a green that it washes out on either. I have no idea how green works with night vision. I suspect a bright chevron to be seen but may wash out over a lighter color target???
ETA - I would say your choice is more over the TA11 and the TA31RCO-M4CP and forget the TA33.
4/28/2012 6:22:55 PM
I have a question regarding the TA31rco m4cp. First what does the cp stand for and also will it work on an 16 inch barrel. Is it the only chevron sight with the horizontal target reference lines? I'm new to ar 15s and appreciate ant help as well.
4/28/2012 7:46:27 PM
I had the version previous to this http://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product3.php?pid=TA01NSN-RMR - it was with the Doktor optic on top. Concept wise I thought it was the tits. I didn't keep it long. My right was lasik for distance, my left for reading. I could not focus the reticle, was way too blurry for the job I needed it to do. I use a http://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product3.php?pid=TR24 1x4 on my Beowulf, and the 3x9 red on one of my ARs. I never revisited the ACOG. I use mostly Aimpoints and for real precision work a 6.5x20 Leopold fine cross-hair dot.
4/28/2012 9:38:27 PM
Originally Posted By fasteeler11:
I have a question regarding the TA31rco m4cp. First what does the cp stand for and also will it work on an 16 inch barrel. Is it the only chevron sight with the horizontal target reference lines? I'm new to ar 15s and appreciate ant help as well.
I have a question regarding the TA31rco m4cp. First what does the cp stand for and also will it work on an 16 inch barrel. Is it the only chevron sight with the horizontal target reference lines? I'm new to ar 15s and appreciate ant help as well.
I am not sure what the CP stands for. I would venture to guess the BDC would be close enough for your purposes. BDCs are never 100% unless you have very good QC over your bullet production in which case you can match your loads to the BDC.
Trijicon Looks to be other reticles choices for m4 length barrels.
4/28/2012 10:00:22 PM
I would personally recommend the TA33 and TA11 most highly. They have enough magnification to use at longer distance, but not too much to limit close range work. The ta33 has little field of view, but it makes up for that with very large periferal vision. The ta11 is just the opposite. Right now my long range rifle has a ta31, and my short to mid range has a ta33. My next will have a ta11 for sure.
I prefer the red chevron because i am used to it and know it very well, but for newer users the green horseshoe might be a better choice because the green really stands out, and the horseshoe is lightning fast at close range. My friend got a ta11 with the green horseshoe for just this reason and it is definitely a winner.
I prefer the red chevron because i am used to it and know it very well, but for newer users the green horseshoe might be a better choice because the green really stands out, and the horseshoe is lightning fast at close range. My friend got a ta11 with the green horseshoe for just this reason and it is definitely a winner.
