After corrosive ammo - My best was not enough...

Well I thought I did my best yet it wasn't enough... I guess.

2 weeks ago I went through a can of 5.45 Russian.
Then I cleaned my 74 rifle immediately. It was the 1st time for me to clean a semi-auto rifle after shooting corrosive ammo.

Per my research on internet, I cleaned (using windex) barrel, chamber, gas block internal, piston/bolt carrier, & bolt. I wipe the rifle cleam w/ windex soaked rags.
I rubbed & clean & left parts w/o any gun oils and left the rifle unassembled.
I was nervous about rusting & wanted to see what happens.

I checked the parts every other day & yesterday I found very minor surface rusting forming on several spots. They were not big deal & cleaned up easily. However I was surprised that parts did rust.

I took all parts & entire rifle to bath tub and give them hot water bath w/ brush scrubbing.
Once they are dried up due to hot water's own heat and I oversparyed WD-40 until I reassemble.

Is there another relatively easier way to clean after shooing 5.45 corrosive ammo?
I knew this before getting into 5.45 but it seems to be much work.
Well, I guess the cheap price of 5.45 offsets though.

Years ago when most of the 7.62 X 39 was Chinese corrosive ammo, someone I knew would go to the car wash after every shooting session. He flush it with soap and rinse with hot water. He never had any rusting problems with this method. I used to scrub mine with hot water and dish soap and then rinse with hot water. I'd then use my air compressor to blow it out, just in case.

Wolf can be bought almost as cheap, and non-corrosive, if you want to try that.

Its more then likely the lack of oil on things that caused some rusting after being exposed to the water in the windex.

I use Ballistol to clean up. It's a CLP type product developed by Germany in WWI. It emulsifies with water. You can dilute it anywhere 1:10 and up. I use it about 1:4 (one part Ballistol to four parts water).

It dilutes the salts and washes them away. Haven't had a problem yet, and no extra steps at all.

Originally Posted By brdvictim: Its more then likely the lack of oil on things that caused some rusting after being exposed to the water in the windex.

+1



hell I took one of my 74's after shooting half a tin through it at the range, simple dunked the thing in my pool, and cleaned it normally. ZERO issues, ZERO rust.

Water neutralizes the salts, then clean as usual. The summer dunk. Russian style

Also, some of the guys that shoot at the range I do who have MG-42s and PKMs and shoot tons of corrosive through them just hose 'em down with WD-40 and clean them later.

Works great, becase it displaces water and keeps the gun from rusting.

Originally Posted By Bakelite47: Wolf can be bought almost as cheap, and non-corrosive, if you want to try that.

Where is Wolf available for near $0.12 a round delivered? Cheapest I have seen it is closer to $200.00 per thousand delivered which comes to what? $0.20 a round or 80% more?

I don't see where the OP mentions doing anything other than spraying down his rifle with windex and wiping it with windex wetted rags. The windex is just a temporary washing out of excess salts. Did you then clean the rifle properly with any bore solvent, CLP or any other cleaner and then oil the bare metal? Windex contains water and surfacants which will remove oil from the metal. No oil plus water on metal equals what? Rust.

Originally Posted By Chris_1522: I use Ballistol to clean up. It's a CLP type product developed by Germany in WWI. It emulsifies with water. You can dilute it anywhere 1:10 and up. I use it about 1:4 (one part Ballistol to four parts water). It dilutes the salts and washes them away. Haven't had a problem yet, and no extra steps at all.

+1

BSW

I never use water or windex after shooting corrosive ammo. It doesn't make sense to me to add moisture to corrosive salts. I also dont see why people use windex, being it contains ammonia which attack the chrome linning of your bore. I use Balistol or a variety of oil based solvents. I also like a Barricade which comes in a spray can so I can get into tight spots, like the firing pin channel. Never had a spot of rust cleaning like this.

I just take everything apart and flush it in the Parts washer and the re-assemble and oil


Works great

I bought a shitload of that stuff and had a barrel made up at the TC Encore custom shop to fire it out of and shoot it and cleans real easy,very accurate also

I shoot corrosive all of the time without problems! To clean I spray the heck out of everything with carb cleaner, run a 5-8 patches through drenched with carb cleaner, then I begin cleaning with BrakeFree. Whatever the carb cleaner doesnt get out the BrakeFree does. + the BrakeFree lubricates/oils as well so that the next time you take your fire arm out everything has a nice coat of lube/oil on it to begin with. You never want to leave anything that is metal dry when shooting, corrosive or non-corrosive.

Like I say, this method works for me and I mainly use my Yugo's when shooting corrosive, and they dont have chromed lined barrels.

Originally Posted By Wolfman223: I bought a shitload of that stuff and had a barrel made up at the TC Encore custom shop to fire it out of and shoot it and cleans real easy,very accurate also

How about a thread on that one? Pictures, price of custom barrel, twist rate etc... That is something I would be interested in. A single shot 5,45x39 TC encore.

Use Windex to only initially flush the corrosive crap out after shooting. Follow with Hop. #9 and CLP. Follow next day with CLP only. If you not intend to use gun for a long time, follow with CLP after 1 week. That should take care of it.

Originally Posted By KK66: Use Windex to only initially flush the corrosive crap out after shooting. Follow with Hop. #9 and CLP. Follow next day with CLP only. If you not intend to use gun for a long time, follow with CLP after 1 week. That should take care of it.

dedication 101

Originally Posted By brdvictim: Its more then likely the lack of oil on things that caused some rusting after being exposed to the water in the windex.

YEP. Who told you to not oil the bare metal surfaces after cleaning them with Windex and water??? If you think about that for a second it makes no sense.

Originally Posted By Chris_1522: Also, some of the guys that shoot at the range I do who have MG-42s and PKMs and shoot tons of corrosive through them just hose 'em down with WD-40 and clean them later. Works great, becase it displaces water and keeps the gun from rusting.

WD-40 doesnt do a good job of preventing rust, this has been covered on Box of Truth I believe.

Also it does shit to prevent the corrosive salts from hurting your metal parts.

Def not the proper, or a proper way.

Originally Posted By SecretKeeper: Well I thought I did my best yet it wasn't enough... I guess. 2 weeks ago I went through a can of 5.45 Russian. Then I cleaned my 74 rifle immediately. It was the 1st time for me to clean a semi-auto rifle after shooting corrosive ammo. Per my research on internet, I cleaned (using windex) barrel, chamber, gas block internal, piston/bolt carrier, & bolt. I wipe the rifle cleam w/ windex soaked rags. I rubbed & clean & left parts w/o any gun oils and left the rifle unassembled. I was nervous about rusting & wanted to see what happens. I checked the parts every other day & yesterday I found very minor surface rusting forming on several spots. They were not big deal & cleaned up easily. However I was surprised that parts did rust. I took all parts & entire rifle to bath tub and give them hot water bath w/ brush scrubbing. Once they are dried up due to hot water's own heat and I oversparyed WD-40 until I reassemble. Is there another relatively easier way to clean after shooing 5.45 corrosive ammo? I knew this before getting into 5.45 but it seems to be much work. Well, I guess the cheap price of 5.45 offsets though.

Your only real mistake was not recoating the parts with a good protective coat of oil. Any good oil will do. WD-40 is not a good protective type coating. If you had done that I think you would have had no problem.

Ballistol is great...that's all i use now with good results.

Originally Posted By WildGoose: Originally Posted By SecretKeeper: Well I thought I did my best yet it wasn't enough... I guess. 2 weeks ago I went through a can of 5.45 Russian. Then I cleaned my 74 rifle immediately. It was the 1st time for me to clean a semi-auto rifle after shooting corrosive ammo. Per my research on internet, I cleaned (using windex) barrel, chamber, gas block internal, piston/bolt carrier, & bolt. I wipe the rifle cleam w/ windex soaked rags. I rubbed & clean & left parts w/o any gun oils and left the rifle unassembled. I was nervous about rusting & wanted to see what happens. I checked the parts every other day & yesterday I found very minor surface rusting forming on several spots. They were not big deal & cleaned up easily. However I was surprised that parts did rust. I took all parts & entire rifle to bath tub and give them hot water bath w/ brush scrubbing. Once they are dried up due to hot water's own heat and I oversparyed WD-40 until I reassemble. Is there another relatively easier way to clean after shooing 5.45 corrosive ammo? I knew this before getting into 5.45 but it seems to be much work. Well, I guess the cheap price of 5.45 offsets though. Your only real mistake was not recoating the parts with a good protective coat of oil. Any good oil will do. WD-40 is not a good protective type coating. If you had done that I think you would have had no problem.

I believe that was why some parts rusted, I agree.
I intentionally didn't oil to see how they do.
Still true reason for rust is that I ended up missing several tight spots that I couldn't get w/ regular rag & brush cleaning.

In the same work room, I have many unfinished metal objects & gun parts basically stiripped of oil protection. They were sitting there over 2 years w/o any rusting.

WD-40 is a temp measure until I get to the final & complete cleaning & prep for storage.
OK, now I need to clean & lube my 74 rifle.

HOT SOAPY WATER. NO CHEMICALS NEEDED. You're wasting Windex.

After everything has been dried, wipe it down WELL with CLP (or other like oil) and check the every other day or so for a week or two.

I agree with Chris, Ballistol is excellent stuff. My other distraction outside of AKs is the N-SSA, we fire lots and lots of rounds out of civil war era guns, many originals, and we only use real black powder. Everyone I know uses Ballistol mixed with water for their initial clean up and the straight Ballistol for as a metal protector. With 4 seasons in with these guys I have yet to find a bit of rust on a single one of my muskets or carbines, and very little is more corrosive then true black powder.

Originally Posted By Dieter122: Originally Posted By Chris_1522: Also, some of the guys that shoot at the range I do who have MG-42s and PKMs and shoot tons of corrosive through them just hose 'em down with WD-40 and clean them later. Works great, becase it displaces water and keeps the gun from rusting. WD-40 doesnt do a good job of preventing rust, this has been covered on Box of Truth I believe.

Apparently it works for them. It's a temporary measure, as noted, anyway. Just passing on the info.

Also it does shit to prevent the corrosive salts from hurting your metal parts.

The salts are harmless. It's the moisture they attract and causes the rust. WD-40, or any oil, keeps water from the metal.

I know some guys that shoot antique black powder rifles. They start with boiling water (to disolve the salts) followed by cleaning as usual.

Originally Posted By 8M3: I never use water or windex after shooting corrosive ammo. It doesn't make sense to me to add moisture to corrosive salts. I also dont see why people use windex, being it contains ammonia which attack the chrome linning of your bore. I use Balistol or a variety of oil based solvents. I also like a Barricade which comes in a spray can so I can get into tight spots, like the firing pin channel. Never had a spot of rust cleaning like this.

Ammonia D is alcohol.

Water.

Why is this so hard to understand?

You shoot corrosive ammo? You clean it with hot (as in boiling) water.

You wipe down with a towel afterwards, and hit it with a hair dryer or some brake cleaner to dry out the rifle.

You wipe down the parts with a decent rust inhibitor (CLP works fine) and you put it away.

This is not rocket science. You don't need to spend money on all kinds of fancy crap. A $1 turkey baster works great for getting water down the bore and in the gas tube.

Originally Posted By dk8019: I agree with Chris, Ballistol is excellent stuff. My other distraction outside of AKs is the N-SSA, we fire lots and lots of rounds out of civil war era guns, many originals, and we only use real black powder. Everyone I know uses Ballistol mixed with water for their initial clean up and the straight Ballistol for as a metal protector. With 4 seasons in with these guys I have yet to find a bit of rust on a single one of my muskets or carbines, and very little is more corrosive then true black powder.

I agree that ballistol is great for this type of cleaning. I also do A LOT of black powder shooting as a Civil War cavalry reenactor and cowboy action shooter. I do disagree however that Black Powder is more corrosive then corrosive priming. I personally feel that corrosive primers and percussion caps gave real BP a much worse rap then it deserves. After events, I often have had up to six weapons to clean. Sometime I have had leave weapons go for several days with before cleaning, with no ill effects. I once tested a Cabelas hawken barrel I was getting rid of leaving it BP residue in it till it rusted. It took a month. I'm not suggesting not cleaning BP weapons in a timely matter. I am suggesting corrosive priming is far more corrosive then real black powder. I also agree that ballistol is an excellent cleaner for black powder and corrosive priming.

i stole a plastic mixing bowl with a pour lip from the kitchen. i fill with piping hot water. pour this down the bore, gas block, and gas tube. immediately blow off with air compressor. the water neutralizes the corrosive salts. it's a fact. nothing else matters but the water. i wipe the the piston down with a damp rag. i then clean the gun as normal. the places you have to worry about is the bore and where the gases end up.

honestly though, these chrome lined ak's are so tough they can rust a little, be cleaned and you'd never notice. thats what the chromed bore and piston is for. there is so much play in the gas system a little corrosion or rust in the gas block and gas tube won't affect function.

i'm not saying don't clean it, i'm just saying they are tough. look at the afghans, all they would do is run a motor oil soaked shoe lace through the bore and that was good enough.

Originally Posted By badka2ma: i stole a plastic mixing bowl with a pour lip from the kitchen. i fill with piping hot water. pour this down the bore, gas block, and gas tube. immediately blow off with air compressor. the water neutralizes the corrosive salts. it's a fact. nothing else matters but the water. i wipe the the piston down with a damp rag. i then clean the gun as normal. the places you have to worry about is the bore and where the gases end up. honestly though, these chrome lined ak's are so tough they can rust a little, be cleaned and you'd never notice. thats what the chromed bore and piston is for. there is so much play in the gas system a little corrosion or rust in the gas block and gas tube won't affect function. i'm not saying don't clean it, i'm just saying they are tough. look at the afghans, all they would do is run a motor oil soaked shoe lace through the bore and that was good enough.

Great, want to bring your kitchen and air compressor next time I go shooting the AK?

The Ballistol/water mix works even if you don't have access to hot water. I'm not British, so I don't normally travel with tea making equipment.

BSW

I shot just under a thousand rounds of corrosive 7.62X51 through my M1A in Feb. 2007 (RBC in Ramseur, NC). I cleaned it every evening with some black powder solvent called Black Off that I bought at Walmart. I scrubbed (toothbrush) what I could reach and the barrel with a rod and bore brush and patches. I then sprayed everything off with carb. cleaner and when it dried I wet the (very dry) metal with a spray of rem-oil and then wiped off the excess with a rag before putting it in the case for the night.

No issues all week and no rusting issues when I got home. I checked it several times.

Black powder is corrosive so I figured if it worked for black powder it should work for corrosive ammo as well.

Originally Posted By M1A4ME: I shot just under a thousand rounds of corrosive 7.62X51 .

What kind I never saw corrosive 7.62x51?

briansmithtwins,

you don't have to clean the gun immediately after shooting. you do have time to get home. if the corrosive salts started negative effects that fast we would not have any surplus guns left. what do you think soldiers in the field did? cleaned their guns immediately? you have time. i just shot 200 rounds of 1959 chinese 7.62x39 out of my norinco sks. i didn't clean it for a week. no problems.

you don't need any other cleaners to negate the corrosive effects of the older primer salts. windex works because it is primarily water. if you put 10% water in balistol knock yourself out. i doubt if it works as good as plain hot water and it's more expensive. then what do you do after you clean it with that do you have mixture of balistol with no water? the last thing you want to do is leave a mixture of cleaner/lube mixed with 10% water on the gun!

I doubt if it works as good as plain hot water and it's more expensive. then what do you do after you clean it with that do you have mixture of balistol with no water? the last thing you want to do is leave a mixture of cleaner/lube mixed with 10% water on the gun!

Actually, it is 90% water to 10% ballistol and it will not hurt if you inadvertantly do leave a bit. The water evaporates and the ballistol remains in a protective film.

That is why Ballistol is better than hot water, that and the formula will bind up unflushed salts, water cannot do that. You are speaking about a product you obviously have zero knowledge of and giving flawed advice.

Where do you find this Ballistol local hardware store, cabelas?

Midway carries it.

Originally Posted By badka2ma: briansmithtwins, you don't have to clean the gun immediately after shooting. you do have time to get home. if the corrosive salts started negative effects that fast we would not have any surplus guns left. what do you think soldiers in the field did? cleaned their guns immediately? you have time. i just shot 200 rounds of 1959 chinese 7.62x39 out of my norinco sks. i didn't clean it for a week. no problems. you don't need any other cleaners to negate the corrosive effects of the older primer salts. windex works because it is primarily water. if you put 10% water in balistol knock yourself out. i doubt if it works as good as plain hot water and it's more expensive. then what do you do after you clean it with that do you have mixture of balistol with no water? the last thing you want to do is leave a mixture of cleaner/lube mixed with 10% water on the gun!

I live on Oregon, sometimes the humidity gets to be a little on the high side. Unless I was hallucinating about the rust spots before I got around to cleaning the 1st AK I was shooting at the range. These weren't that bad, not pitting, just bright orange surface rust.

I haven't had any problems with rusting since using Ballistol/water mix. The emulsion water mixed with Ballistol form cleans and protects steel. The straight Ballistol works better as a protectant and lubricant.

I got my Ballistol from Midway when I ordered some other items. It's available form quite a few sources. Just google 'ballistol'

BSW

How about just soley using gun scrubber? I use windex and then follow with bore scrubber and I haven't had a problem, but how about just using gunscrubber?

I also found it best to scrub parts with windex or use windex on a bore brush and then wipe out with patch. Just spraying tends to leave some very light survace rust as opposed to scrubbing.

My method:

Fire
Spray windex (has a drying agent thats better than water)
use windex like a solvent on brushes and patches
follow up later with bore scrubber and CLP.

Originally Posted By Gargoyle: How about just soley using gun scrubber? I use windex and then follow with bore scrubber and I haven't had a problem, but how about just using gunscrubber? I also found it best to scrub parts with windex or use windex on a bore brush and then wipe out with patch. Just spraying tends to leave some very light survace rust as opposed to scrubbing. My method: Fire Spray windex (has a drying agent thats better than water) use windex like a solvent on brushes and patches follow up later with bore scrubber and CLP.

I was also going for simple: I only have to buy Ballistol. You're buying Windex, Bore scrubber ,and CLP. As long as I have Ballistol I can make more corrosive ammo solvent. I also don't like most aerosol cleaning products. I do use Break-Free foaming bore cleaner every few months to get rid of copper fouling.

BSW

Originally Posted By Chris_1522: I use Ballistol to clean up. It's a CLP type product developed by Germany in WWI. It emulsifies with water. You can dilute it anywhere 1:10 and up. I use it about 1:4 (one part Ballistol to four parts water). It dilutes the salts and washes them away. Haven't had a problem yet, and no extra steps at all.

Originally Posted By scottm545: Ballistol is great...that's all i use now with good results.

Originally Posted By dk8019: I agree with Chris, Ballistol is excellent stuff. My other distraction outside of AKs is the N-SSA, we fire lots and lots of rounds out of civil war era guns, many originals, and we only use real black powder. Everyone I know uses Ballistol mixed with water for their initial clean up and the straight Ballistol for as a metal protector. With 4 seasons in with these guys I have yet to find a bit of rust on a single one of my muskets or carbines, and very little is more corrosive then true black powder.

Originally Posted By SeppP: I agree that ballistol is great for this type of cleaning. ... I also agree that ballistol is an excellent cleaner for black powder and corrosive priming.

Originally Posted By briansmithwins: The Ballistol/water mix works even if you don't have access to hot water. I'm not British, so I don't normally travel with tea making equipment. BSW

Originally Posted By HeavyMetal: Actually, it is 90% water to 10% ballistol and it will not hurt if you inadvertantly do leave a bit. The water evaporates and the ballistol remains in a protective film. That is why Ballistol is better than hot water, that and the formula will bind up unflushed salts, water cannot do that. You are speaking about a product you obviously have zero knowledge of and giving flawed advice.

Originally Posted By briansmithwins: I haven't had any problems with rusting since using Ballistol/water mix. The emulsion water mixed with Ballistol form cleans and protects steel. The straight Ballistol works better as a protectant and lubricant. I got my Ballistol from Midway when I ordered some other items. It's available form quite a few sources. Just google 'ballistol' BSW

Originally Posted By briansmithwins: As long as I have Ballistol I can make more corrosive ammo solvent. I also don't like most aerosol cleaning products. I do use Break-Free foaming bore cleaner every few months to get rid of copper fouling. BSW

I can personally attest to most all of the statements that have been quoted. I rarely use "bore solvent" anymore. Ballistol takes care of my guns. Everything from my 1922 Mosin Nagant M91/30, to my AR-15 with 24" Stainless Steel Varmint barrel and Leupold Scope.



Oh and sorry HeavyMetal I accidently pressed "Report" while trying to quote your message.

Ballistol is ALL I use to clean and lube my firearms, whether it be my AK's, G43's or my Kimbers. I dilute it 50/50 with distiled water for cleaning up after corrosive ammo and "straight up" for all other cleaning. No need to to take 12 steps to clean your firearms. And there's nothing in it that's bad for you. I buy it by the gallon can from Washington Trading Company, Inc.

Oh and sorry HeavyMetal I accidently pressed "Report" while trying to quote your message.

I am sure the PTB will figure it out

You guys sure go to a lot of trouble for no reason. First, as was mentioned, its the corrosive salts that attract moisture that cause the problem. Those salts are not any different than any other fouling in the way they are deposited on the metal of your rifle. They aren't going to remain after a cleaning with Hoppe's or any other bore cleaning solvent. All this water/windex etc. is just the result of what was used in the distant past to clean black powder rifles. Boiling/hot water was used because it would clean out the fouling and then evaporate rapidly (because it made the metal hot) drying the bore to keep rusting to a minumn. You didn't want to oil the bore of a black powder rifle and risk causing problems with contamnation of your powder. Clean your rifle after shooting corrosive just as you would after shooting any other ammo and you will have no problems. Don't believe me? Try it....you'll see. Also, WD40 is an EXCELLENT rust preventative. If you can't clean your rifle after your range session just spray the bore and gas tube with WD40 and clean it when you can. I've left mine(including a Yugo underfolder without a chrome lined barrel) as much as a month with NO trace of rust of any kind.This is the space age guys...put your hose away and join the modern world.

"Nuke it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure!"

I clean mine with Simple Green and apply generous amounts of lube to the gun after. CLP works well.

Originally Posted By demusn1979: Originally Posted By M1A4ME: I shot just under a thousand rounds of corrosive 7.62X51 . What kind I never saw corrosive 7.62x51?

Early 70's Indian, some of the Sellier & Bellot and, all French made 7.62x51 are corrosive.

Originally Posted By slimslade: Ballistol is ALL I use to clean and lube my firearms, whether it be my AK's, G43's or my Kimbers. I dilute it 50/50 with distiled water for cleaning up after corrosive ammo and "straight up" for all other cleaning. No need to to take 12 steps to clean your firearms. And there's nothing in it that's bad for you. I buy it by the gallon can from Washington Trading Company, Inc.

This is one of the main reasons I decided to try it, because to me it makes a lot more sense to use a chemical that isn't dangerous to your health. The primary chemical used to make ballistol is a medicinal grade topical ointment (in fact I have actually applied Ballistol to shallow scrapes and noticed they healed quicker than untreated). There arn't any dangerous fumes. And it doesn't have any chemicals that harm the environment.

Breakfree after a cleaning and you will be happy.

Originally Posted By SpittingBull: Breakfree after a cleaning and you will be happy.

Eh, no. Unless you live in a desert.

Break-Free CLP doesn't dissolve the salts that cause corrosion from corrosive primer residue. You may get some mechanical cleaning action from using CLP and a brush after shooting corrosive ammo but you won't be sure of dealing with the salts.

Water then CLP, sure.
Windex then CLP, fine.
Ballistol/water then CLP, perfect.

BSW

+1 on Ballistol.

When done shooting while the action is warm/hot I squirt down all the parts with a Water/Ballistol/Windex mix. Let all that stuff drain out the bore and run a snake through.

Then when I get home it is a normal cleaning with Ballistol as the last oil on everything.

Never seen any rust yet and down here we are shooting in 100% humidity.

-Cabby

Originally Posted By JRBL1A1: HOT SOAPY WATER. NO CHEMICALS NEEDED. You're wasting Windex. After everything has been dried, wipe it down WELL with CLP (or other like oil) and check the every other day or so for a week or two.

This is what I do no problems, HOT water works best it evaporates fastest. Then CLP/gun, oil

I got tired of cleaning my 74 clones . So I removed all the wood and used
a steam cleaner followed by a cook in a 350° oven . After that I soaked
it in EEZOX for a few days then back in the oven for an hour .

Since then I haven't done any more then dragging a boresnake through it and
blow out the internals with compressed air . No signs of rust after 18 months and
at least a dozen range sessions . The salts can't do any harm if they can't get to
the steel

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