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Looks like we won't be getting any parts kits or ammo from Ukraine!
4/25/2012 11:33:47 AM
Ukraine, NATO to continue scrapping ammo under Partnership for Peace program
Apr 18 at 18:33 | Interfax-Ukraine Ukraine and NATO will continue cooperation in scrapping ammunition under the NATO Partnership for Peace Trust Fund project.
A relevant framework agreement was signed between the Ukrainian Defense Ministry and the NATO Maintenance and Supply Agency (NAMSA) in Kyiv on Tuesday, Interfax-Ukraine learned at the Defense Ministry's press service.
According to the agreement, 76,000 tons of ammunition, 366,000 units of light weapons and small arms and three million antipersonnel mines are to be destroyed during the second stage of the implementation of the Partnership for Peace program. The project's estimated cost is EUR 25 million. Its implementation will take some three to four years.
Under the NATO Partnership for Peace Trust Fund project to destroy surplus weapons and ammunition in Ukraine, 133,000 tonnes of ammunition and 1.5 million units of light weapons and small arms are to be scrapped in Ukraine, in four stages within twelve years.
In 2006-2011, some 400,000 units of small arms and 15,000 tonnes of ammunition were destroyed during the first stage of the project's implementation.
Read more: http://www.kyivpost.com/news/nation/detail/126211/#ixzz1t4CYFFD1
4/25/2012 11:49:06 AM
well that just sucks.
however it said it was scrapping ammo and weapons from 2006 - 2011, yet surplus 5,45x39 is still here.
however it said it was scrapping ammo and weapons from 2006 - 2011, yet surplus 5,45x39 is still here.
4/25/2012 12:39:48 PM
4/25/2012 12:51:01 PM
Can we outbid NATO?
4/25/2012 2:06:30 PM
Originally Posted By Finslayer83:
well that just sucks.
however it said it was scrapping ammo and weapons from 2006 - 2011, yet surplus 5,45x39 is still here.
well that just sucks.
however it said it was scrapping ammo and weapons from 2006 - 2011, yet surplus 5,45x39 is still here.
The sentence reads:
"In 2006-2011, some 400,000 units of small arms and 15,000 tonnes of ammunition were destroyed during the first stage of the project's implementation."
2006-2011 was just the first of four stages in the program. Yes, we are getting some ammo, but, 76,000 tons of ammunition, 366,000 units of light weapons and small arms are to be destroyed. There was also an agreement with a US based company to go in and dismantle the ammo into its component parts for resale, but this has fallen through. The UN is trying to get all ammo and arms out of the reach of common people, and restrict it completely to military and security forces world wide. Can you say Police State. And if you don't think it is trying to weasel its way into the US, just look at ITAR.
4/25/2012 2:35:44 PM
Does this include the new wolf ammo?
4/25/2012 2:41:18 PM
Ex Com Bloc arms & ammo makers are in fits of joy right now. These will all be replaced soon enough.
edit to add: how much of this BS program are we paying for? Stupid "feel good" crap.
edit to add: how much of this BS program are we paying for? Stupid "feel good" crap.
4/25/2012 3:56:11 PM
They have been doing this since 2006, and all this time the surplus ammo and parts have been available. The USSR had an unbelievable stockpile of arms, probably a LOT more that they intend to destroy, and they will be doing this over a 12 year span.
So it sucks, but I don't think it means the end of surplus ammo and parts from the Ukraine, and I'm sure it comes in from other former Soviet republics also.
I too also wonder how much of our tax dollars will go into funding this wonderful Venture.
So it sucks, but I don't think it means the end of surplus ammo and parts from the Ukraine, and I'm sure it comes in from other former Soviet republics also.
I too also wonder how much of our tax dollars will go into funding this wonderful Venture.
4/25/2012 4:26:16 PM
Hillarys small arms treaty bullshit at work
4/25/2012 4:31:25 PM
I don't know. It matters how much oversight there is. After all, if something is slated for destruction, it won't be noticed if it goes missing...
It also matters what "destruction" is. Is the receiver cutting that has been going on for the last few years considered destruction? If so, we might see an influx of parts kits.
It also matters what "destruction" is. Is the receiver cutting that has been going on for the last few years considered destruction? If so, we might see an influx of parts kits.
4/25/2012 7:43:01 PM
Originally Posted By jollyroger1969:
I don't know. It matters how much oversight there is. After all, if something is slated for destruction, it won't be noticed if it goes missing...
It also matters what "destruction" is. Is the receiver cutting that has been going on for the last few years considered destruction? If so, we might see an influx of parts kits.
I don't know. It matters how much oversight there is. After all, if something is slated for destruction, it won't be noticed if it goes missing...
It also matters what "destruction" is. Is the receiver cutting that has been going on for the last few years considered destruction? If so, we might see an influx of parts kits.
I like the way you think
4/25/2012 7:48:44 PM
Originally Posted By jollyroger1969:
I don't know. It matters how much oversight there is. After all, if something is slated for destruction, it won't be noticed if it goes missing...
It also matters what "destruction" is. Is the receiver cutting that has been going on for the last few years considered destruction? If so, we might see an influx of parts kits.
I don't know. It matters how much oversight there is. After all, if something is slated for destruction, it won't be noticed if it goes missing...
It also matters what "destruction" is. Is the receiver cutting that has been going on for the last few years considered destruction? If so, we might see an influx of parts kits.
I agree. I would imagine that torch cutting the receiver and cutting off the barrel would qualify as destroying a firearm. Who's to say that the parts can't be sold after it has been destroyed.
4/25/2012 7:55:35 PM
Destruction = Ukraine sending 76,000 tons of ammo to my doorstep for disposal.
4/25/2012 8:00:44 PM
Damn shame,what a waste of a perfectly good supply of goods.
oh wait, we should all feel better now that the NWO is making us safer.
oh wait, we should all feel better now that the NWO is making us safer.
4/26/2012 3:11:03 AM
Originally Posted By FlyLeaf:
Damn shame,what a waste of a perfectly good supply of goods.
oh wait, we should all feel better now that the NWO is making us safer.
Damn shame,what a waste of a perfectly good supply of goods.
oh wait, we should all feel better now that the NWO is making us safer.
dont you know? dismantled ak parts are full-auto even without the receiver. hence why "machine gun barrels" are no longer importable. also military ammo is way more super mega destructive than commercial ammo. thats why its being destroyed. its for the children.....o and on a side note the united states typically pays for 60-80% of NATO projects. so the commie....o sorry socialist euro zone countries are using our money to give everyone that warm fuzzy feeling of keeping everyone safe against their will.
4/26/2012 9:07:52 AM
Originally Posted By BigAKFan:
Does this include the new wolf ammo?
Does this include the new wolf ammo?
No. Just the military surplus stuff.
4/26/2012 1:03:12 PM
sad so sad that these idiots are destroyin such a good income opportunity. Yea and this country will need money from us to feed themselves soon I'm sure so we will pay to destroy these weapons and ammo and anything else these idiots need. Thanks to stupid hillary type people in this country.
4/26/2012 4:24:24 PM
Makes me sad to think of all that ammo being destroyed...... What a shame! 
4/26/2012 6:52:57 PM
Originally Posted By akuser-47:
sad so sad that these idiots are destroyin such a good income opportunity. Yea and this country will need money from us to feed themselves soon I'm sure so we will pay to destroy these weapons and ammo and anything else these idiots need. Thanks to stupid hillary type people in this country.
sad so sad that these idiots are destroyin such a good income opportunity. Yea and this country will need money from us to feed themselves soon I'm sure so we will pay to destroy these weapons and ammo and anything else these idiots need. Thanks to stupid hillary type people in this country.
Don't worry too much about them, I am sure we are paying them huge amounts of compensation in order for them to let us make the world a safer place
4/26/2012 7:34:54 PM
Well I would guess a lot of the 7.62 being destroyed isn't importable anyway, and if their ammunition is stored the way the Russians stored it, the ammunition could well be plain dangerous where it sits for the Ukrainians. The ammunition isn't really a huge shame to lose on those two issues.
4/26/2012 7:38:26 PM
Originally Posted By Blofeld:
Well I would guess a lot of the 7.62 being destroyed isn't importable anyway, and if their ammunition is stored the way the Russians stored it, the ammunition could well be plain dangerous where it sits for the Ukrainians. The ammunition isn't really a huge shame to lose on those two issues.
Well I would guess a lot of the 7.62 being destroyed isn't importable anyway, and if their ammunition is stored the way the Russians stored it, the ammunition could well be plain dangerous where it sits for the Ukrainians. The ammunition isn't really a huge shame to lose on those two issues.
This comment is ridiculous. What do you mean by "the way the Russians stored it"
You mean the tens of thousands of rounds of surplus 5.45x39 and 7.62x54R I've fired were plain dangerous? The Russians aren't idiots.
4/26/2012 7:50:04 PM
Originally Posted By TheGrandIllusion:
This comment is ridiculous. What do you mean by "the way the Russians stored it"
You mean the tens of thousands of rounds of surplus 5.45x39 and 7.62x54R I've fired were plain dangerous? The Russians aren't idiots.
Originally Posted By Blofeld:
Well I would guess a lot of the 7.62 being destroyed isn't importable anyway, and if their ammunition is stored the way the Russians stored it, the ammunition could well be plain dangerous where it sits for the Ukrainians. The ammunition isn't really a huge shame to lose on those two issues.
Well I would guess a lot of the 7.62 being destroyed isn't importable anyway, and if their ammunition is stored the way the Russians stored it, the ammunition could well be plain dangerous where it sits for the Ukrainians. The ammunition isn't really a huge shame to lose on those two issues.
This comment is ridiculous. What do you mean by "the way the Russians stored it"
You mean the tens of thousands of rounds of surplus 5.45x39 and 7.62x54R I've fired were plain dangerous? The Russians aren't idiots.
NO what is ridiculous is not knowing WTF YOU are commenting on.
http://www.state.gov/t/pm/rls/fs/182344.htm
The Russians may not be idiots, but they aren't exactly known for giving two fucks about safety.
4/26/2012 8:13:10 PM
Originally Posted By Blofeld:
NO what is ridiculous is not knowing WTF YOU are commenting on.
http://www.state.gov/t/pm/rls/fs/182344.htm
The Russians may not be idiots, but they aren't exactly known for giving two fucks about safety.
Originally Posted By TheGrandIllusion:
This comment is ridiculous. What do you mean by "the way the Russians stored it"
You mean the tens of thousands of rounds of surplus 5.45x39 and 7.62x54R I've fired were plain dangerous? The Russians aren't idiots.
Originally Posted By Blofeld:
Well I would guess a lot of the 7.62 being destroyed isn't importable anyway, and if their ammunition is stored the way the Russians stored it, the ammunition could well be plain dangerous where it sits for the Ukrainians. The ammunition isn't really a huge shame to lose on those two issues.
Well I would guess a lot of the 7.62 being destroyed isn't importable anyway, and if their ammunition is stored the way the Russians stored it, the ammunition could well be plain dangerous where it sits for the Ukrainians. The ammunition isn't really a huge shame to lose on those two issues.
This comment is ridiculous. What do you mean by "the way the Russians stored it"
You mean the tens of thousands of rounds of surplus 5.45x39 and 7.62x54R I've fired were plain dangerous? The Russians aren't idiots.
NO what is ridiculous is not knowing WTF YOU are commenting on.
http://www.state.gov/t/pm/rls/fs/182344.htm
The Russians may not be idiots, but they aren't exactly known for giving two fucks about safety.
From the link you quoted....
On July 11, 2011, 98 shipping containers holding gunpowder at the Evangelos Florakis naval base on Cyprus exploded.
looking at the list of "accidents" shows artillery shells, grenades, explosive devices, rockets, bulk gunpowder storage and mines. Nothing in there about small arms ammo like 7.62 and 5.45....which by the way is packed in sealed airtight tins from the factory.
4/26/2012 8:22:23 PM
Originally Posted By -Apocalypto-:
From the link you quoted....
looking at the list of "accidents" shows artillery shells, grenades, explosive devices, rockets, bulk gunpowder storage and mines. Nothing in there about small arms ammo like 7.62 and 5.45....which by the way is packed in sealed airtight tins from the factory.
Originally Posted By Blofeld:
NO what is ridiculous is not knowing WTF YOU are commenting on.
http://www.state.gov/t/pm/rls/fs/182344.htm
The Russians may not be idiots, but they aren't exactly known for giving two fucks about safety.
Originally Posted By TheGrandIllusion:
This comment is ridiculous. What do you mean by "the way the Russians stored it"
You mean the tens of thousands of rounds of surplus 5.45x39 and 7.62x54R I've fired were plain dangerous? The Russians aren't idiots.
Originally Posted By Blofeld:
Well I would guess a lot of the 7.62 being destroyed isn't importable anyway, and if their ammunition is stored the way the Russians stored it, the ammunition could well be plain dangerous where it sits for the Ukrainians. The ammunition isn't really a huge shame to lose on those two issues.
Well I would guess a lot of the 7.62 being destroyed isn't importable anyway, and if their ammunition is stored the way the Russians stored it, the ammunition could well be plain dangerous where it sits for the Ukrainians. The ammunition isn't really a huge shame to lose on those two issues.
This comment is ridiculous. What do you mean by "the way the Russians stored it"
You mean the tens of thousands of rounds of surplus 5.45x39 and 7.62x54R I've fired were plain dangerous? The Russians aren't idiots.
NO what is ridiculous is not knowing WTF YOU are commenting on.
http://www.state.gov/t/pm/rls/fs/182344.htm
The Russians may not be idiots, but they aren't exactly known for giving two fucks about safety.
From the link you quoted....
On July 11, 2011, 98 shipping containers holding gunpowder at the Evangelos Florakis naval base on Cyprus exploded.
looking at the list of "accidents" shows artillery shells, grenades, explosive devices, rockets, bulk gunpowder storage and mines. Nothing in there about small arms ammo like 7.62 and 5.45....which by the way is packed in sealed airtight tins from the factory.
I am sure it did not escape your "eagle eyes" that that was a summary of a few of the ~300 incidents in the last ~15 years and that the cause in that summary of select cases does not list causes for all of them or that it does not list a complete invoice of all munition types stored in the locations that were unsafe. And I am shocked to hear that some Soviet ammunition is sealed in tins. Shocked I tell you.
4/26/2012 8:22:35 PM
Instead of spending 25 million euros to destroy it, how about selling it. And making a profit? Duh.
4/26/2012 8:58:29 PM
Originally Posted By Blofeld:
I am sure it did not escape your "eagle eyes" that that was a summary of a few of the ~300 incidents in the last ~15 years and that the cause in that summary of select cases does not list causes for all of them or that it does not list a complete invoice of all munition types stored in the locations that were unsafe. And I am shocked to hear that some Soviet ammunition is sealed in tins. Shocked I tell you.
Originally Posted By -Apocalypto-:
From the link you quoted....
looking at the list of "accidents" shows artillery shells, grenades, explosive devices, rockets, bulk gunpowder storage and mines. Nothing in there about small arms ammo like 7.62 and 5.45....which by the way is packed in sealed airtight tins from the factory.
Originally Posted By Blofeld:
NO what is ridiculous is not knowing WTF YOU are commenting on.
http://www.state.gov/t/pm/rls/fs/182344.htm
The Russians may not be idiots, but they aren't exactly known for giving two fucks about safety.
Originally Posted By TheGrandIllusion:
This comment is ridiculous. What do you mean by "the way the Russians stored it"
You mean the tens of thousands of rounds of surplus 5.45x39 and 7.62x54R I've fired were plain dangerous? The Russians aren't idiots.
Originally Posted By Blofeld:
Well I would guess a lot of the 7.62 being destroyed isn't importable anyway, and if their ammunition is stored the way the Russians stored it, the ammunition could well be plain dangerous where it sits for the Ukrainians. The ammunition isn't really a huge shame to lose on those two issues.
Well I would guess a lot of the 7.62 being destroyed isn't importable anyway, and if their ammunition is stored the way the Russians stored it, the ammunition could well be plain dangerous where it sits for the Ukrainians. The ammunition isn't really a huge shame to lose on those two issues.
This comment is ridiculous. What do you mean by "the way the Russians stored it"
You mean the tens of thousands of rounds of surplus 5.45x39 and 7.62x54R I've fired were plain dangerous? The Russians aren't idiots.
NO what is ridiculous is not knowing WTF YOU are commenting on.
http://www.state.gov/t/pm/rls/fs/182344.htm
The Russians may not be idiots, but they aren't exactly known for giving two fucks about safety.
From the link you quoted....
On July 11, 2011, 98 shipping containers holding gunpowder at the Evangelos Florakis naval base on Cyprus exploded.
looking at the list of "accidents" shows artillery shells, grenades, explosive devices, rockets, bulk gunpowder storage and mines. Nothing in there about small arms ammo like 7.62 and 5.45....which by the way is packed in sealed airtight tins from the factory.
I am sure it did not escape your "eagle eyes" that that was a summary of a few of the ~300 incidents in the last ~15 years and that the cause in that summary of select cases does not list causes for all of them or that it does not list a complete invoice of all munition types stored in the locations that were unsafe. And I am shocked to hear that some Soviet ammunition is sealed in tins. Shocked I tell you.
The link you provided shows examples of all kinds of munitions having "accidents".
Russian ammo is sealed in tins.
short of leaving the cans in a field for 10 years and having rust actually eat through the cans....it's really, really hard to damage the ammo.
So how is this ammo "dangerous?"
4/26/2012 9:13:28 PM
Originally Posted By -Apocalypto-:
In your first post you stated that if their ammunition was stored the way the Russians stored it...it could be just plain dangerous.
Originally Posted By Blofeld:
I am sure it did not escape your "eagle eyes" that that was a summary of a few of the ~300 incidents in the last ~15 years and that the cause in that summary of select cases does not list causes for all of them or that it does not list a complete invoice of all munition types stored in the locations that were unsafe. And I am shocked to hear that some Soviet ammunition is sealed in tins. Shocked I tell you.
Originally Posted By -Apocalypto-:
From the link you quoted....
looking at the list of "accidents" shows artillery shells, grenades, explosive devices, rockets, bulk gunpowder storage and mines. Nothing in there about small arms ammo like 7.62 and 5.45....which by the way is packed in sealed airtight tins from the factory.
Originally Posted By Blofeld:
NO what is ridiculous is not knowing WTF YOU are commenting on.
http://www.state.gov/t/pm/rls/fs/182344.htm
The Russians may not be idiots, but they aren't exactly known for giving two fucks about safety.
Originally Posted By TheGrandIllusion:
This comment is ridiculous. What do you mean by "the way the Russians stored it"
You mean the tens of thousands of rounds of surplus 5.45x39 and 7.62x54R I've fired were plain dangerous? The Russians aren't idiots.
Originally Posted By Blofeld:
Well I would guess a lot of the 7.62 being destroyed isn't importable anyway, and if their ammunition is stored the way the Russians stored it, the ammunition could well be plain dangerous where it sits for the Ukrainians. The ammunition isn't really a huge shame to lose on those two issues.
Well I would guess a lot of the 7.62 being destroyed isn't importable anyway, and if their ammunition is stored the way the Russians stored it, the ammunition could well be plain dangerous where it sits for the Ukrainians. The ammunition isn't really a huge shame to lose on those two issues.
This comment is ridiculous. What do you mean by "the way the Russians stored it"
You mean the tens of thousands of rounds of surplus 5.45x39 and 7.62x54R I've fired were plain dangerous? The Russians aren't idiots.
NO what is ridiculous is not knowing WTF YOU are commenting on.
http://www.state.gov/t/pm/rls/fs/182344.htm
The Russians may not be idiots, but they aren't exactly known for giving two fucks about safety.
From the link you quoted....
On July 11, 2011, 98 shipping containers holding gunpowder at the Evangelos Florakis naval base on Cyprus exploded.
looking at the list of "accidents" shows artillery shells, grenades, explosive devices, rockets, bulk gunpowder storage and mines. Nothing in there about small arms ammo like 7.62 and 5.45....which by the way is packed in sealed airtight tins from the factory.
I am sure it did not escape your "eagle eyes" that that was a summary of a few of the ~300 incidents in the last ~15 years and that the cause in that summary of select cases does not list causes for all of them or that it does not list a complete invoice of all munition types stored in the locations that were unsafe. And I am shocked to hear that some Soviet ammunition is sealed in tins. Shocked I tell you.
The link you provided shows examples of all kinds of munitions having "accidents".
Russian ammo is sealed in tins.
short of leaving the cans in a field for 10 years and having rust actually eat through the cans....it's really, really hard to damage the ammo.
So how is this ammo "dangerous?"
this one time i read an article on the internet that said russian surplus ammo is dangerous......so now its the devil...
really?4/26/2012 11:54:46 PM
Originally Posted By -Apocalypto-:
In your first post you stated that if their ammunition was stored the way the Russians stored it...it could be just plain dangerous.
Originally Posted By Blofeld:
I am sure it did not escape your "eagle eyes" that that was a summary of a few of the ~300 incidents in the last ~15 years and that the cause in that summary of select cases does not list causes for all of them or that it does not list a complete invoice of all munition types stored in the locations that were unsafe. And I am shocked to hear that some Soviet ammunition is sealed in tins. Shocked I tell you.
Originally Posted By -Apocalypto-:
From the link you quoted....
looking at the list of "accidents" shows artillery shells, grenades, explosive devices, rockets, bulk gunpowder storage and mines. Nothing in there about small arms ammo like 7.62 and 5.45....which by the way is packed in sealed airtight tins from the factory.
Originally Posted By Blofeld:
NO what is ridiculous is not knowing WTF YOU are commenting on.
http://www.state.gov/t/pm/rls/fs/182344.htm
The Russians may not be idiots, but they aren't exactly known for giving two fucks about safety.
Originally Posted By TheGrandIllusion:
This comment is ridiculous. What do you mean by "the way the Russians stored it"
You mean the tens of thousands of rounds of surplus 5.45x39 and 7.62x54R I've fired were plain dangerous? The Russians aren't idiots.
Originally Posted By Blofeld:
Well I would guess a lot of the 7.62 being destroyed isn't importable anyway, and if their ammunition is stored the way the Russians stored it, the ammunition could well be plain dangerous where it sits for the Ukrainians. The ammunition isn't really a huge shame to lose on those two issues.
Well I would guess a lot of the 7.62 being destroyed isn't importable anyway, and if their ammunition is stored the way the Russians stored it, the ammunition could well be plain dangerous where it sits for the Ukrainians. The ammunition isn't really a huge shame to lose on those two issues.
This comment is ridiculous. What do you mean by "the way the Russians stored it"
You mean the tens of thousands of rounds of surplus 5.45x39 and 7.62x54R I've fired were plain dangerous? The Russians aren't idiots.
NO what is ridiculous is not knowing WTF YOU are commenting on.
http://www.state.gov/t/pm/rls/fs/182344.htm
The Russians may not be idiots, but they aren't exactly known for giving two fucks about safety.
From the link you quoted....
On July 11, 2011, 98 shipping containers holding gunpowder at the Evangelos Florakis naval base on Cyprus exploded.
looking at the list of "accidents" shows artillery shells, grenades, explosive devices, rockets, bulk gunpowder storage and mines. Nothing in there about small arms ammo like 7.62 and 5.45....which by the way is packed in sealed airtight tins from the factory.
I am sure it did not escape your "eagle eyes" that that was a summary of a few of the ~300 incidents in the last ~15 years and that the cause in that summary of select cases does not list causes for all of them or that it does not list a complete invoice of all munition types stored in the locations that were unsafe. And I am shocked to hear that some Soviet ammunition is sealed in tins. Shocked I tell you.
The link you provided shows examples of all kinds of munitions having "accidents".
Russian ammo is sealed in tins.
short of leaving the cans in a field for 10 years and having rust actually eat through the cans....it's really, really hard to damage the ammo.
So how is this ammo "dangerous?"
That don't call this place Barfcom for nothing!
Originally Posted By Blofeld:
Well I would guess a lot of the 7.62 being destroyed isn't importable anyway, and if their ammunition is stored the way the Russians stored it, the ammunition could well be plain dangerous where it sits for the Ukrainians. The ammunition isn't really a huge shame to lose on those two issues.
Well I would guess a lot of the 7.62 being destroyed isn't importable anyway, and if their ammunition is stored the way the Russians stored it, the ammunition could well be plain dangerous where it sits for the Ukrainians. The ammunition isn't really a huge shame to lose on those two issues.
I have bolded the pertinent parts for you. How could it be dangerous where it sits? It could be, and there likely are places where, the depot itself makes it impractical to remove safely but you are, of course, absolutely correct the wooden crate with a metal tin is completely sound storage in a depot and nothing can happen to it!
Unless of course something happens to them in the depot.......
You know, its not like that has happened to munitions that were in long term storage.........
Oh...............right....
Don't fool yourself (well, actually do...that is the arfcom way) it isn't just the Yugo crates that can become damaged in depot, the spam cans can also be mishandled or miss-stored in depot and become compromised though handling, and environmental conditions in a depot that has been neglected for as long as the ones in Eastern Europe have. If the Ukrainians are trashing the ammunition and not selling it on the market there could be reasons.
Never forget, we get the good surplus, all of the surplus ammunition in the Eastern Block or Asia DOES NOT look as pretty as what we get (remember the 50 year old Chinese ammunition that went to Afghanistan?). So what is the point. The point is, those depots are being demolished and the ammunition destroyed because the Ukrainians can't get a better deal to rid themselves of shit tons of stuff they can't use. Either because of the contents or because of the infrastructure or both. Any of the three "COULD" make it unsafe where it sits for the Ukrainians. And I would rather not have a bunch of dead Ukrainians and a little smaller supply of surplus ammo.
4/27/2012 1:23:26 AM
That is not true, nato has punked the world into joining them and useing only there calibers of ammo so they can have complete control of who has it and where it goes. They know all this surplus shit is the decider of future wars. The u.s. Consumer market is tiny and most of that would go to the next person of power and wealth needing to fund an army. Believe it or not we are still playing the game of axis and allies in the world and just because eastern countries join nato does not mean they are loyal to nato. I think it's sad they have got as far as they have with this new world order and I hate what there doing but I also know there enemies are my enemies, imho:)
4/27/2012 8:49:03 AM
Originally Posted By Blofeld:
That don't call this place Barfcom for nothing!
I have bolded the pertinent parts for you. How could it be dangerous where it sits? It could be, and there likely are places where, the depot itself makes it impractical to remove safely but you are, of course, absolutely correct the wooden crate with a metal tin is completely sound storage in a depot and nothing can happen to it!
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w76/sghedrick26/IMG_4771.jpg
Unless of course something happens to them in the depot.......
You know, its not like that has happened to munitions that were in long term storage.........
Oh...............right....
Don't fool yourself (well, actually do...that is the arfcom way) it isn't just the Yugo crates that can become damaged in depot, the spam cans can also be mishandled or miss-stored in depot and become compromised though handling, and environmental conditions in a depot that has been neglected for as long as the ones in Eastern Europe have. If the Ukrainians are trashing the ammunition and not selling it on the market there could be reasons.
Never forget, we get the good surplus, all of the surplus ammunition in the Eastern Block or Asia DOES NOT look as pretty as what we get (remember the 50 year old Chinese ammunition that went to Afghanistan?). So what is the point. The point is, those depots are being demolished and the ammunition destroyed because the Ukrainians can't get a better deal to rid themselves of shit tons of stuff they can't use. Either because of the contents or because of the infrastructure or both. Any of the three "COULD" make it unsafe where it sits for the Ukrainians. And I would rather not have a bunch of dead Ukrainians and a little smaller supply of surplus ammo.
Originally Posted By -Apocalypto-:
In your first post you stated that if their ammunition was stored the way the Russians stored it...it could be just plain dangerous.
Originally Posted By Blofeld:
I am sure it did not escape your "eagle eyes" that that was a summary of a few of the ~300 incidents in the last ~15 years and that the cause in that summary of select cases does not list causes for all of them or that it does not list a complete invoice of all munition types stored in the locations that were unsafe. And I am shocked to hear that some Soviet ammunition is sealed in tins. Shocked I tell you.
Originally Posted By -Apocalypto-:
From the link you quoted....
looking at the list of "accidents" shows artillery shells, grenades, explosive devices, rockets, bulk gunpowder storage and mines. Nothing in there about small arms ammo like 7.62 and 5.45....which by the way is packed in sealed airtight tins from the factory.
Originally Posted By Blofeld:
NO what is ridiculous is not knowing WTF YOU are commenting on.
http://www.state.gov/t/pm/rls/fs/182344.htm
The Russians may not be idiots, but they aren't exactly known for giving two fucks about safety.
Originally Posted By TheGrandIllusion:
This comment is ridiculous. What do you mean by "the way the Russians stored it"
You mean the tens of thousands of rounds of surplus 5.45x39 and 7.62x54R I've fired were plain dangerous? The Russians aren't idiots.
Originally Posted By Blofeld:
Well I would guess a lot of the 7.62 being destroyed isn't importable anyway, and if their ammunition is stored the way the Russians stored it, the ammunition could well be plain dangerous where it sits for the Ukrainians. The ammunition isn't really a huge shame to lose on those two issues.
Well I would guess a lot of the 7.62 being destroyed isn't importable anyway, and if their ammunition is stored the way the Russians stored it, the ammunition could well be plain dangerous where it sits for the Ukrainians. The ammunition isn't really a huge shame to lose on those two issues.
This comment is ridiculous. What do you mean by "the way the Russians stored it"
You mean the tens of thousands of rounds of surplus 5.45x39 and 7.62x54R I've fired were plain dangerous? The Russians aren't idiots.
NO what is ridiculous is not knowing WTF YOU are commenting on.
http://www.state.gov/t/pm/rls/fs/182344.htm
The Russians may not be idiots, but they aren't exactly known for giving two fucks about safety.
From the link you quoted....
On July 11, 2011, 98 shipping containers holding gunpowder at the Evangelos Florakis naval base on Cyprus exploded.
looking at the list of "accidents" shows artillery shells, grenades, explosive devices, rockets, bulk gunpowder storage and mines. Nothing in there about small arms ammo like 7.62 and 5.45....which by the way is packed in sealed airtight tins from the factory.
I am sure it did not escape your "eagle eyes" that that was a summary of a few of the ~300 incidents in the last ~15 years and that the cause in that summary of select cases does not list causes for all of them or that it does not list a complete invoice of all munition types stored in the locations that were unsafe. And I am shocked to hear that some Soviet ammunition is sealed in tins. Shocked I tell you.
The link you provided shows examples of all kinds of munitions having "accidents".
Russian ammo is sealed in tins.
short of leaving the cans in a field for 10 years and having rust actually eat through the cans....it's really, really hard to damage the ammo.
So how is this ammo "dangerous?"
That don't call this place Barfcom for nothing!
Originally Posted By Blofeld:
Well I would guess a lot of the 7.62 being destroyed isn't importable anyway, and if their ammunition is stored the way the Russians stored it, the ammunition could well be plain dangerous where it sits for the Ukrainians. The ammunition isn't really a huge shame to lose on those two issues.
Well I would guess a lot of the 7.62 being destroyed isn't importable anyway, and if their ammunition is stored the way the Russians stored it, the ammunition could well be plain dangerous where it sits for the Ukrainians. The ammunition isn't really a huge shame to lose on those two issues.
I have bolded the pertinent parts for you. How could it be dangerous where it sits? It could be, and there likely are places where, the depot itself makes it impractical to remove safely but you are, of course, absolutely correct the wooden crate with a metal tin is completely sound storage in a depot and nothing can happen to it!
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w76/sghedrick26/IMG_4771.jpg
Unless of course something happens to them in the depot.......
You know, its not like that has happened to munitions that were in long term storage.........
Oh...............right....
Don't fool yourself (well, actually do...that is the arfcom way) it isn't just the Yugo crates that can become damaged in depot, the spam cans can also be mishandled or miss-stored in depot and become compromised though handling, and environmental conditions in a depot that has been neglected for as long as the ones in Eastern Europe have. If the Ukrainians are trashing the ammunition and not selling it on the market there could be reasons.
Never forget, we get the good surplus, all of the surplus ammunition in the Eastern Block or Asia DOES NOT look as pretty as what we get (remember the 50 year old Chinese ammunition that went to Afghanistan?). So what is the point. The point is, those depots are being demolished and the ammunition destroyed because the Ukrainians can't get a better deal to rid themselves of shit tons of stuff they can't use. Either because of the contents or because of the infrastructure or both. Any of the three "COULD" make it unsafe where it sits for the Ukrainians. And I would rather not have a bunch of dead Ukrainians and a little smaller supply of surplus ammo.
I bet you could still fire half that crate
