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New To Ak's Need Advice on Action Binding
12/21/2010 6:42:42 PM
Hey guys ! I recently bought a WASR 10/63. When you stop laughing, please help.
I have an action that binds. It does have a Tapco FCG. I've read a few posts, and see that it's normal for new AK's that have been converted from full to semi to do that.
The overall response was that it need to break in. There was one guy who suggested to replace the hammer with an imported one.
To do this, do you just drive out the pin, swap hammers, and tap the pin back in? Or is there more to it?
Also, can you recommend a vendor where I can get AK parts? Original as well as aftermarket?
Sorry for all the questions. I'm an AR guy. The only commie rifle is a 1952 Russian SKS.
Thanx !!!!!!!!!!
I have an action that binds. It does have a Tapco FCG. I've read a few posts, and see that it's normal for new AK's that have been converted from full to semi to do that.
The overall response was that it need to break in. There was one guy who suggested to replace the hammer with an imported one.
To do this, do you just drive out the pin, swap hammers, and tap the pin back in? Or is there more to it?
Also, can you recommend a vendor where I can get AK parts? Original as well as aftermarket?
Sorry for all the questions. I'm an AR guy. The only commie rifle is a 1952 Russian SKS.
Thanx !!!!!!!!!!
12/21/2010 7:58:51 PM
First off, here is how you disassemble and reassemble your FCG.
out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJj63WYur8s
in. Do not install your shepherds crook like this guy says. Yours is different anyway. Watch the third video for that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqWGlLNlWo0
shepherds crook re-install (the correct way)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXjebSTAAPM&feature=related
Now that that's out of the way, here is a video on how to fix the hammer. I do it a little different, but this will show you what needs to be done. I take down all three sides until they are smooth and the casting lines are gone. Then I round the two sharper angles. I do this with 400 and 600 grit sandpaper, followed by a quick polishing with my dremel. I also do all the metal to metal contacts on the rest of the FCG.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8CURTA5m0o
This link will show you how to improve the rest of the trigger if you are interested. It also has pictures of what your hammer surfaces should look like.
http://www.ak47.net/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=64&t=132562
I did this WASR today for a friend. His would hang up pretty bad. I took a little more off of the hammer than some others I've done. Now you can't get it to hang up. The trigger feels awesome too. He just left my house after checking it out. He racked the slide for the first time since the polish job and had a huge grin on his face.
This needs to be stickied.
out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJj63WYur8s
in. Do not install your shepherds crook like this guy says. Yours is different anyway. Watch the third video for that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqWGlLNlWo0
shepherds crook re-install (the correct way)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXjebSTAAPM&feature=related
Now that that's out of the way, here is a video on how to fix the hammer. I do it a little different, but this will show you what needs to be done. I take down all three sides until they are smooth and the casting lines are gone. Then I round the two sharper angles. I do this with 400 and 600 grit sandpaper, followed by a quick polishing with my dremel. I also do all the metal to metal contacts on the rest of the FCG.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8CURTA5m0o
This link will show you how to improve the rest of the trigger if you are interested. It also has pictures of what your hammer surfaces should look like.
http://www.ak47.net/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=64&t=132562
I did this WASR today for a friend. His would hang up pretty bad. I took a little more off of the hammer than some others I've done. Now you can't get it to hang up. The trigger feels awesome too. He just left my house after checking it out. He racked the slide for the first time since the polish job and had a huge grin on his face.
This needs to be stickied.
12/21/2010 8:21:53 PM
When you say binds you mean you pull the bolt carrier back and let go and it sticks there? Thats normal sort of. If you pull back fast and hard it should fly back closed, but going slow it may hang up. You can shoot few hundred rounds I hear and it will start to wear in. Or lightly sand or file the hammer. Then polish. Honestly I would just shoot it until it wears in until you are more familiar with how it all operates.
I had one I had to file, polish. Its super smooth now. Another did not touch it at all. My newest one I havent done anything and its fine, just not as smooth. But one day I will polish it all.
There is another bind where it pops out of the receiver rear notches, and can break the metal. Let us know which binding it does, im guessing the first one I described
The tapco FCG is great. Remember if you change out us parts you still need to have the 922 parts. Right now you have exactly all the ones you need.
12/22/2010 8:50:45 AM
Originally Posted By Colddeadhands61:
There was one guy who suggested to replace the hammer with an imported one.
There was one guy who suggested to replace the hammer with an imported one.
Swapping the hammer to a foriegn made one will leave you short one compliance part.
Mixing and matching fire control parts can cause trouble, because the parts aren't necessarily interchangable. It can lead to the hammer following the carrier, usually leaving you with a single shot rifle.
If you insist on following that suggestion, I recommend that after you've insralled the "new" hammer you load and fire one cartridge at a time for at least ten shots. Check to see that the hammer has remained cocked after each shot.
iI you get hammer follow, put the TAPCO hammer back in and don't ride the operating handle forward when you chamber a cartridge.
12/22/2010 8:11:04 PM
Another possibility is that it is a welded gas piston instead of the correct riveted one. The riveted one has a little flop to it. This makes it easy for the bolt carrier to move smoothly as it is not leveraged against the gas tube/block.
Another cause is the caming angles on the bolt head not cut all the way to centerline. I see this alot and suspect its from the teeth on the cutter getting chipped. This manifests only on the initial retraction of the bolt.
If it retracts but then stops about an inch back, it is likely binding on the ejector. THere is a channel on the bolt body to clear the ejector and a ramp on either side. I've seen some romys with the "ramp" incomplete, more of a shelf. This snags on the ejector.
Your description isn't enough to narrow down the problem - would help to know at what point friction is greatest.
Another cause is the caming angles on the bolt head not cut all the way to centerline. I see this alot and suspect its from the teeth on the cutter getting chipped. This manifests only on the initial retraction of the bolt.
If it retracts but then stops about an inch back, it is likely binding on the ejector. THere is a channel on the bolt body to clear the ejector and a ramp on either side. I've seen some romys with the "ramp" incomplete, more of a shelf. This snags on the ejector.
Your description isn't enough to narrow down the problem - would help to know at what point friction is greatest.
12/22/2010 9:37:51 PM
My Draco hangs when I pull the trigger, the bolt sticks and won't go forward...
If I DO NOT hold the trigger back, the bolt closes normally.
I tried to fire the weapon yesterday, it was a single shot.
Should I file the top of the hammer as shown in the videos??
If I DO NOT hold the trigger back, the bolt closes normally.
I tried to fire the weapon yesterday, it was a single shot.
Should I file the top of the hammer as shown in the videos??
12/23/2010 8:56:30 AM
The carrier hanging on the hammer isn't anything unusual.
When you say the pistol was "a single shot" what do you mean?
Did the empty cartridge fail to eject? Did the next cartridge fail to feed?
Was there a complete ejection/feeding cycle, but the rifle failed to fire the next time because the hammer didn't stay cocked?
Your description of the problem lacks enough details to attempt a diagnosis, much less advice on a repair.
When you say the pistol was "a single shot" what do you mean?
Did the empty cartridge fail to eject? Did the next cartridge fail to feed?
Was there a complete ejection/feeding cycle, but the rifle failed to fire the next time because the hammer didn't stay cocked?
Your description of the problem lacks enough details to attempt a diagnosis, much less advice on a repair.
12/23/2010 9:25:44 AM
I'm thinking the "binding" he is describing is the normal tendency of a bolt carrier to be held back by the stiff hammer spring. AK actions aren't exactly smooth as glass. 
12/23/2010 10:04:54 AM
So remove the FCG . If it still binds, its something else.
12/23/2010 11:40:53 AM
Originally Posted By 45FMJoe:
I'm thinking the "binding" he is describing is the normal tendency of a bolt carrier to be held back by the stiff hammer spring. AK actions aren't exactly smooth as glass.
I'm thinking the "binding" he is describing is the normal tendency of a bolt carrier to be held back by the stiff hammer spring. AK actions aren't exactly smooth as glass.
The brief description "it was a single shot" doesn't describe any condition I think of as normal. Almost all new AKs will hang the carrier on the hammer under certain conditions. Most of them operate normally, firing one cartridge, loading another when the carrier returns and the bolt locks and firing that cartridge when the hammer is released.
12/23/2010 11:46:31 AM
Originally Posted By POLYTHENEPAM:
The brief description "it was a single shot" doesn't describe any condition I think of as normal. Almost all new AKs will hang the carrier on the hammer under certain conditions. Most of them operate normally, firing one cartridge, loading another when the carrier returns and the bolt locks and firing that cartridge when the hammer is released.
Originally Posted By 45FMJoe:
I'm thinking the "binding" he is describing is the normal tendency of a bolt carrier to be held back by the stiff hammer spring. AK actions aren't exactly smooth as glass.
I'm thinking the "binding" he is describing is the normal tendency of a bolt carrier to be held back by the stiff hammer spring. AK actions aren't exactly smooth as glass.
The brief description "it was a single shot" doesn't describe any condition I think of as normal. Almost all new AKs will hang the carrier on the hammer under certain conditions. Most of them operate normally, firing one cartridge, loading another when the carrier returns and the bolt locks and firing that cartridge when the hammer is released.
I was talking about the OP, not the other poster's single shot rifle!
12/23/2010 12:16:03 PM
POLYTHENEPAM you seem slightly aggressive with your answers, but let me clarify my problem to the best of my ability.
1. When trigger is pulled on an empty weapon, and the bolt is manually pulled back, and then let go, it will hang in the rearward position and not precede forward until I let go of the trigger.
2. When the trigger is NOT pressed, I can pull the bolt manually and let it go without any binding, it closes properly.
3. When I attempt to fire the weapon, the bolt hangs at the rear and does not cycle the action, my definition of a single shot. I would need to push the bolt forward manually for it to close.
I have tried lubing the rails, the action and have had zero success.
The next step is the remove the fire control group and see if it hangs on the rails alone...
1. When trigger is pulled on an empty weapon, and the bolt is manually pulled back, and then let go, it will hang in the rearward position and not precede forward until I let go of the trigger.
2. When the trigger is NOT pressed, I can pull the bolt manually and let it go without any binding, it closes properly.
3. When I attempt to fire the weapon, the bolt hangs at the rear and does not cycle the action, my definition of a single shot. I would need to push the bolt forward manually for it to close.
I have tried lubing the rails, the action and have had zero success.
The next step is the remove the fire control group and see if it hangs on the rails alone...
12/23/2010 12:34:35 PM
Originally Posted By -JC-:
POLYTHENEPAM you seem slightly aggressive with your answers, but let me clarify my problem to the best of my ability.
Now that you've adequately described the problem, I'm sure someone can help you. I'd do it, but I don't want to intimidate you ...
1. When trigger is pulled on an empty weapon, and the bolt is manually pulled back, and then let go, it will hang in the rearward position and not precede forward until I let go of the trigger.
2. When the trigger is NOT pressed, I can pull the bolt manually and let it go without any binding, it closes properly.
3. When I attempt to fire the weapon, the bolt hangs at the rear and does not cycle the action, my definition of a single shot. I would need to push the bolt forward manually for it to close.
I have tried lubing the rails, the action and have had zero success.
The next step is the remove the fire control group and see if it hangs on the rails alone...
POLYTHENEPAM you seem slightly aggressive with your answers, but let me clarify my problem to the best of my ability.
Now that you've adequately described the problem, I'm sure someone can help you. I'd do it, but I don't want to intimidate you ...
1. When trigger is pulled on an empty weapon, and the bolt is manually pulled back, and then let go, it will hang in the rearward position and not precede forward until I let go of the trigger.
2. When the trigger is NOT pressed, I can pull the bolt manually and let it go without any binding, it closes properly.
3. When I attempt to fire the weapon, the bolt hangs at the rear and does not cycle the action, my definition of a single shot. I would need to push the bolt forward manually for it to close.
I have tried lubing the rails, the action and have had zero success.
The next step is the remove the fire control group and see if it hangs on the rails alone...
12/23/2010 12:53:33 PM
If you can get it to cycle fine without pulling the trigger then it isn't hanging on the rails. I would say the first surface on the hammer that the bottom of the carrier comes in contact with is deformed or not angled correctly (or both surfaces).
12/23/2010 2:16:49 PM
Originally Posted By EB_311:
If you can get it to cycle fine without pulling the trigger then it isn't hanging on the rails. I would say the first surface on the hammer that the bottom of the carrier comes in contact with is deformed or not angled correctly (or both surfaces).
If you can get it to cycle fine without pulling the trigger then it isn't hanging on the rails. I would say the first surface on the hammer that the bottom of the carrier comes in contact with is deformed or not angled correctly (or both surfaces).
Will check and post an update.
Thank you EB_311.
12/23/2010 2:44:49 PM
Here are some pics of the surfaces I'm talking about. If it does it when you have the trigger held down, then it's most likely hanging because the hammer is at a different angle then when your finger is off the trigger (disconnector engaged). Sometimes the G2 has a raised lip on the first surface of the hammer contacted by the carrier. That's confusing so here's the pics.
This hammer has been smoothed out. I simulated the raised metal with a green line
bottom of carrier
This hammer has been smoothed out. I simulated the raised metal with a green line
bottom of carrier
12/23/2010 2:55:59 PM
Thanks for the replies.
Follow up for Gunplumber. I looked at the piston/bolt carrier. It doesn't look to be welded. There is a distinct line where the two parts meet. It is not pinned either. Looking at the assy from the top, with the piston pointing foward, there is a hole on the right side of the carrier. When I look in the hole I see lines that look like threads. Is it possible that the gas piston screws in? Also on the same side by the hole, there is a rub mark where there is no paint left.
Now back to the binding. I did the hammer mod, and now when I pul the bolt back it is smooth. If I hold the bolt, and let it return slowly, it still hangs up after about 2" of travel. Do you think the carrier is rubbing on the side of the front trunion? as it goes in? Would this account for the rub mark on the right side?
I should have said this from the start, the gun has 140 rounds through it. It functioned perfectly. If I rack the bolt and let it slam by itself, it works perfectly.
I just hate the binding action.
Follow up for Gunplumber. I looked at the piston/bolt carrier. It doesn't look to be welded. There is a distinct line where the two parts meet. It is not pinned either. Looking at the assy from the top, with the piston pointing foward, there is a hole on the right side of the carrier. When I look in the hole I see lines that look like threads. Is it possible that the gas piston screws in? Also on the same side by the hole, there is a rub mark where there is no paint left.
Now back to the binding. I did the hammer mod, and now when I pul the bolt back it is smooth. If I hold the bolt, and let it return slowly, it still hangs up after about 2" of travel. Do you think the carrier is rubbing on the side of the front trunion? as it goes in? Would this account for the rub mark on the right side?
I should have said this from the start, the gun has 140 rounds through it. It functioned perfectly. If I rack the bolt and let it slam by itself, it works perfectly.
I just hate the binding action.
12/27/2010 10:44:01 PM
BTW, I didn't post any of this information as a fix for a jamming issue. The information I posted is for people who want to fix the annoying (not problem causing) hanging of the carrier on the hammer. If your rifle is jamming then it's not because of a slight hang on the hammer.
The way I look at it is not all AK variants do this out of the box. Why should mine or the OP's? If it doesn't bother you, don't fix it and hit the back button at the top of your screen.
The way I look at it is not all AK variants do this out of the box. Why should mine or the OP's? If it doesn't bother you, don't fix it and hit the back button at the top of your screen.
1/2/2011 4:12:50 PM
Originally Posted By Colddeadhands61:
I looked at the piston/bolt carrier. It doesn't look to be welded. There is a distinct line where the two parts meet. It is not pinned either. Looking at the assy from the top, with the piston pointing foward, there is a hole on the right side of the carrier. When I look in the hole I see lines that look like threads. Is it possible that the gas piston screws in? Also on the same side by the hole, there is a rub mark where there is no paint left.
I looked at the piston/bolt carrier. It doesn't look to be welded. There is a distinct line where the two parts meet. It is not pinned either. Looking at the assy from the top, with the piston pointing foward, there is a hole on the right side of the carrier. When I look in the hole I see lines that look like threads. Is it possible that the gas piston screws in? Also on the same side by the hole, there is a rub mark where there is no paint left.
It sounds like your gas piston is welded on the left side hole.
If there is a hole on the right where you can see threads that means there is no rivet or hole drilled for one.
Check to see if there is any wobble in the gas piston to the carrier screw joint, there should be a small amount.
By welding through the left side hole Century speeded up the building process by not having to drill and rivet the proper way.
And now you have a nonfunctioning weapon because they saved about 10 min building your gun.
Your gas piston is most likely binding on the inside of the gas tube, to check remove the gas tube & see if it still stops at the same place.
It won't go all the way to battery because the end of the gas piston is hitting the gas block face.
1/2/2011 6:59:30 PM
That must be the case. I guess they welded it then ground down the weld so it can't be seen. Now this brings up another question. Do I install the piston the proper way? or just leave it be? Will this become an issue in the future?
1/2/2011 10:28:16 PM
Originally Posted By Colddeadhands61:
That must be the case. I guess they welded it then ground down the weld so it can't be seen. Now this brings up another question. Do I install the piston the proper way? or just leave it be? Will this become an issue in the future?
That must be the case. I guess they welded it then ground down the weld so it can't be seen. Now this brings up another question. Do I install the piston the proper way? or just leave it be? Will this become an issue in the future?
Is it a problem now? Do what paintballer said and remove the gas tube. See if you action still binds. If it does, then the fixed piston isn't the problem and it isn't going to become one.
1/3/2011 6:31:48 PM
What's up EB_311,
I have no binding problems since I did the hammer filing and polishing as per your post. The rifle functions perfectly. The only thing I see is a rub mark on the bolt carrier on the right side where the gas tube attatches. I don't see this as being a problem. After reading a few posts about how the carrier/gas tube isn't put together right, I was concerned about future problems.
I have no binding problems since I did the hammer filing and polishing as per your post. The rifle functions perfectly. The only thing I see is a rub mark on the bolt carrier on the right side where the gas tube attatches. I don't see this as being a problem. After reading a few posts about how the carrier/gas tube isn't put together right, I was concerned about future problems.
1/7/2011 1:25:08 AM
To get my New Ak-74 Build I had to really take off alot off the hammer since the pressure from the upward force of the hammer caused me some weird things happening with the bolt and carrier... I looked at my Ak-47 and used that as a reference where and when the bolt comes in contact with the hammer and just copied that on my new Tapco tigger... again I couldnt believe how much I had to grind off the hammer, the back of the hammer should not come up to far from the side rails and I had a full 1/16 above what my AK-47 had and after taking it off and polishing the hammer and also the bottom of the bolt and carrier it runs 100 percent better I had about every 5th round causing the bolt to lock up on the extractor and after doing this I have only had 2 hang ups out of 3 mags I shoot today...I think I have worked out all the bugs and its time to take this thing apart and parkerize everything and reassemble and shoot my heart out......After that Ill put hi Temp gun grease or Oil and see how it does...
