AR15.Com Archives
 Accuracy of the Romanian PSL-54C 7.62x54R Rifle ??
pdm  [Team Member]
11/26/2009 1:30:48 AM EST
Been looking at these for while on the AIM site.....the price is hard to beat and I have a few thousand rounds of ammo that I'm thinking of working on. The mosin is just too much work...

Question: What's the accuracy capability of this rifle? Can I get 1 MOA out of it with the right ammo? I'm not interested in a "shotgun" but if can get close to a minute of angle with it I'll make the leap. Thanks.
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FryGuy  [Member]
11/26/2009 5:45:40 AM EST
It's on the same page

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=79&t=123476
cantgrowup  [Member]
11/26/2009 6:19:21 AM EST
If you're expecting 1 MOA, you might want to pass. A few get MOA with new ammo, some get 1.5, most get 2.5. So far with surplus ammo, mine's much worse. Other's will dispute me and sing its virtues,but in all honesty......it's a crap shoot. Which one will you get when you open the box?

They are fun blasters though.
TinMan2  [Member]
11/26/2009 8:03:22 AM EST


This is an average group I get with my AIM aquired PSL. I shot this with the Privi Partizan FMJBT 150gr ammo, at a true 100m, that AIM sold on their site. First 4 rounds were within 3/4" ctc and the high left 5th round opened it to 1 3/8" ctc. Just resting on a pack and taking my time(no sandbags or bench rest). None of these PSL's, Dragunov's etc. are designed to rapid fire on targets so trigger control and barrel heat play a big roll in accuracy. If your a rapid fire kind of guy I expect your groups to be 3-4" on average. If like me you want to hit what you aim at and take your time you can get MOA. I would suspect if you put my gun in a lead sled and fired 5 rounds it could go under 1/2" easy. Most times it's not the rifle that causes poor accuracy it's shooter/rest/ammo/conditions and quality of trigger. My rifle is "as issued" no mods other than staining of the forend/handguard wood to match the buttstock...........my $.02......Mike P.S. I like this PSL a bunch and wish I'd purchased one 10 years ago!
pdm  [Team Member]
11/26/2009 2:31:49 PM EST
Great input and thank you all for taking the time to comment.

I was interested in the inherent mechanical capabilities of the system vice the wide range of variables that might effect accuracy such as ammo, shooter, rate of fire, etc...

From what I see it seems that that the rifle will do its part as long as I do mine. That's exactly the input I was hoping for. AIM gets a call in the morning.
cantgrowup  [Member]
11/26/2009 6:32:52 PM EST
Originally Posted By pdm:
Great input and thank you all for taking the time to comment.

I was interested in the inherent mechanical capabilities of the system vice the wide range of variables that might effect accuracy such as ammo, shooter, rate of fire, etc...

From what I see it seems that that the rifle will do its part as long as I do mine. That's exactly the input I was hoping for. AIM gets a call in the morning.


Okay... roll the dice. Let's see which one you get..... a diamond or a rock.
guns762  [Team Member]
11/26/2009 7:59:31 PM EST
Before you get something with those kind of expectations, understand that this is not a MOA rifle. I love my PSL. It is by far my favorite rifle to shoot. But, it is not capable of shooting 1MOA.....maybe a fluke group....but not with any kind of consistancy.

And it's not the shooter on my part. I am more than capable of shooting less than 1/2" 5shot groups with my Rem 700 in .22-250 at 100m.

The PSL is a marksman's rifle, that will shoot 1.5-3MOA. Mine capable of shooting head shots at 300m with my hand loads, and a good rest, or prone using the bipod. It is not a 1MOA rifle. I think you should get one, as they are just a great rifle, but understand what you are buying, and you won't be dissapointed.
pdm  [Team Member]
11/27/2009 2:15:46 AM EST
Okay... roll the dice. Let's see which one you get..... a diamond or a rock.
No worries and thanks for being prudent. We all need to watch out for each other and I appreciate your candor.

I think that this rifle will be just fine. If I can get somewhere in the neighborhood of MOA...1-2 with hand loads that will be just fine. Tighter would be better but I'm willing to take the gamble based on price.
Wyldman  [Team Member]
11/27/2009 3:58:53 AM EST
My PSL is not as dead nutz accurate as any of my .308 rifles, but I can easily hit a basketball sized target out to 300M with high consistancy. A kill shot on a deer on almost any occasion, IMO.

If you are looking for ragged one hole groups out of a PSL, it ain't going to do it, even with refined hand loads. With Bulgarian mil-surp ammo, mine is a massively fun and inexpensive rifle to shoot with "minute of man" accuracy. With my hand loads, I'd very confidently take a shot at table meat and be eating that night with no trouble. Knocking down a man-sized target at 500M is completely within the realm of reason for these rifles, as long as you, the shooter, can do your part.

Most of the folks I know or have read about with these rifles seem to have good accuracy and reasonable consistancy with them. Cantgrowup's rifle seems to be an exception to the rule and he can't hit barn sized objects with it, even swinging it like a baseball bat at 4 ft. I wish that we were closer to each other so I could examine his rifle closely and see what it is about it that makes it so problematic, as mine and all the ones around here that I have examined & shot all seem to be about the same, within reasonable tolerances. I have heard about one or two others that have had similar issues, but they seem to be the exception, rather than the rule. Often in these cases, it has been found that the TIP 2 scope or rail mount has had some sort of problem and once replaced, the rifle came around.

Set your expectations accordingly and you will be rewarded with a reasonably priced rifle to have fun with.

Know also that the scope rail on the PSL is NOT the same as an AK type rail and that the scopes are not compatible or interchangeable. The PSL uses what is referred to as the SKS/SVD rail and mount.
cantgrowup  [Member]
11/27/2009 4:50:55 AM EST
Originally Posted By Wyldman:
With Bulgarian mil-surp ammo, mine is a massively fun and inexpensive rifle to shoot with "minute of man" accuracy.

Cantgrowup's rifle seems to be an exception to the rule and he can't hit barn sized objects with it, even swinging it like a baseball bat at 4 ft. I wish that we were closer to each other so I could examine his rifle closely and see what it is about it that makes it so problematic, as mine and all the ones around here that I have examined & shot all seem to be about the same, within reasonable tolerances. I have heard about one or two others that have had similar issues, but they seem to be the exception, rather than the rule. Often in these cases, it has been found that the TIP 2 scope or rail mount has had some sort of problem and once replaced, the rifle came around.


Now THAT'S what I'm talking about. My PSL has only been shot with Bulgarian surplus and it has MOM accuracy like yours does with Bulgarian.

Only two more weeks before I'm home and can go shoot some other ammo out of it. I'm gonna let everyone know whether or not different ammo solves my problem. By the way... I had to return my first PSL because it would not fully go into battery with any ammo (new or surplus, brass or steel). They sent me a completely different rifle. Like I said... it's a crap shoot.
FryGuy  [Member]
11/27/2009 3:54:10 PM EST
A lot of them seem to love Czech ammo. I get some of my better results with it... My best group came from bxn/87 (copper washed case, light ball). Silver tip is also good stuff.

Each of these rifles is finicky with ammo. They all like something different.
Asmodeus  [Member]
11/27/2009 6:30:42 PM EST
Originally Posted By cantgrowup:
By the way... I had to return my first PSL because it would not fully go into battery with any ammo (new or surplus, brass or steel). They sent me a completely different rifle. Like I said... it's a crap shoot.


Mine did that too. Wouldn't go into battery with a round in it. So I pulled the round, checked for obstructions, swabbed the chamber looking for garbage. Gave it a little lube. And then tried again. It was still sticky and would not go into battery. So... I gave the charging handle a generous whack forward with the rifle pointed in a safe direction. It went into battery. THEN... it wouldn't open. Took both hands yanking on the charging handle to get it to release and when it did - it ejected the round like a rocket. It almost took an act of god to get it open.

From that point forward it took some working with subsequent rounds and manually racking it, and it was still sticky as hell. First time out I gave it a slight forward assist with the palm of my hand to be sure it was in battery and pulled the trigger. No problems.



I bet you sent back a perfectly good rifle.

cantgrowup  [Member]
11/27/2009 9:02:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By Asmodeus:
Originally Posted By cantgrowup:
By the way... I had to return my first PSL because it would not fully go into battery with any ammo (new or surplus, brass or steel). They sent me a completely different rifle. Like I said... it's a crap shoot.


Mine did that too. Wouldn't go into battery with a round in it. So I pulled the round, checked for obstructions, swabbed the chamber looking for garbage. Gave it a little lube. And then tried again. It was still sticky and would not go into battery. So... I gave the charging handle a generous whack forward with the rifle pointed in a safe direction. It went into battery. THEN... it wouldn't open. Took both hands yanking on the charging handle to get it to release and when it did - it ejected the round like a rocket. It almost took an act of god to get it open.

From that point forward it took some working with subsequent rounds and manually racking it, and it was still sticky as hell. First time out I gave it a slight forward assist with the palm of my hand to be sure it was in battery and pulled the trigger. No problems.



I bet you sent back a perfectly good rifle.



For some silly reason, I figured that a sold-as-new $700 semi-auto rifle should go into full battery each and every time without me having to visually check to see if it did, or bang on it with a hammer. Call me particular, I guess. I thought I sent back a non-functioning piece of junk that should have been test fired before sending out to a schmuck customer. The replacement rifle (different serial number) functions flawlessly. Right now, all I know is that it doesn't seem to shoot well with Bulgarian ammo.
WildGoose  [Member]
11/28/2009 5:08:55 AM EST
Originally Posted By cantgrowup:
Originally Posted By Asmodeus:
Originally Posted By cantgrowup:
By the way... I had to return my first PSL because it would not fully go into battery with any ammo (new or surplus, brass or steel). They sent me a completely different rifle. Like I said... it's a crap shoot.


From that point forward it took some working with subsequent rounds and manually racking it, and it was still sticky as hell. First time out I gave it a slight forward assist with the palm of my hand to be sure it was in battery and pulled the trigger. No problems.



I bet you sent back a perfectly good rifle.



For some silly reason, I figured that a sold-as-new $700 semi-auto rifle should go into full battery each and every time without me having to visually check to see if it did, or bang on it with a hammer. Call me particular, I guess. I thought I sent back a non-functioning piece of junk that should have been test fired before sending out to a schmuck customer. The replacement rifle (different serial number) functions flawlessly. Right now, all I know is that it doesn't seem to shoot well with Bulgarian ammo.

Just a couple of comments here. I feel that if your not satisfied send em back. There has not been any issues with getting a replacement and it often cures the porblem. My rifle shoots just so-so with most milsurp and not so well with bulgy. It takes hand loads to get under 3 MOA. Its also good to see that prospective buyers can come here to good solid information based on owners experience without the strange rants I have seen crop up on some of the other lists dealing with this subject.
Asmodeus  [Member]
11/28/2009 6:07:00 PM EST
Originally Posted By cantgrowup:
Originally Posted By Asmodeus:
Originally Posted By cantgrowup:
By the way... I had to return my first PSL because it would not fully go into battery with any ammo (new or surplus, brass or steel). They sent me a completely different rifle. Like I said... it's a crap shoot.


Mine did that too. Wouldn't go into battery with a round in it. So I pulled the round, checked for obstructions, swabbed the chamber looking for garbage. Gave it a little lube. And then tried again. It was still sticky and would not go into battery. So... I gave the charging handle a generous whack forward with the rifle pointed in a safe direction. It went into battery. THEN... it wouldn't open. Took both hands yanking on the charging handle to get it to release and when it did - it ejected the round like a rocket. It almost took an act of god to get it open.

From that point forward it took some working with subsequent rounds and manually racking it, and it was still sticky as hell. First time out I gave it a slight forward assist with the palm of my hand to be sure it was in battery and pulled the trigger. No problems.



I bet you sent back a perfectly good rifle.



For some silly reason, I figured that a sold-as-new $700 semi-auto rifle should go into full battery each and every time without me having to visually check to see if it did, or bang on it with a hammer. Call me particular, I guess. I thought I sent back a non-functioning piece of junk that should have been test fired before sending out to a schmuck customer. The replacement rifle (different serial number) functions flawlessly. Right now, all I know is that it doesn't seem to shoot well with Bulgarian ammo.


Its not "sold as new". It's a 30 year old military surplus rifle. Re-built in Romania from hacked up military rifles to meet US importation regulations.
Built to standards that are not the same as commercially sold guns of US manufacture. The bolt may have been sticky on the first round because the chamber is tight as it is new, and / or probably full of cosmoline, maybe a slight burr, or a small bit of grit. All of which disappears after the first time a case is fired and extracted under it's own power.

My concern would have been sending back a rifle over something silly, that could have potentially been a better shooter. You got a rifle with a tight chamber, so did I. You sent yours back, I didn't. Mine shoots well, and the replacement they sent you does not. My thoughts are you complained about a new rifle that was too tight - so they sent you a sloppy one.

And now you have a $700 rifle that's less accurate than a sling shot... was slapping a charging handle forward once really that bad?

You are indeed entitled to do whatever you feel is necessary to ensure your satisfaction with the merchandise you purchase. I just thought I would also point it out for the other people who may get them and they are a little sticky and tight from the beginning, that after the first time you either properly clean it - or fire a single round. That all goes away. What you did / do with yours is not my concern, but for the other people getting them that may encounter the same situation. I figured it would be beneficial to hear what happens when you don't send them back, and just go clean then shoot them.

That's all.
597newbie  [Member]
11/29/2009 10:16:08 AM EST

If you are thinking of a Romanian PSL... take a look at these youtube videos below. I bought mine because of these.

Value vs Dollar spent they are accurate. Price Rifle + .20 cent ammo which is accurate (stock up) make it a value leader!

Not a sniper weapon but a designated marksman weapon (which is very near and all you need).

===========================================================

sgtking11b is the PSL guru on youtube! Uses cheap bulgarian surplus! The only way to shoot.

http://www.youtube.com/user/sgtking11b

Romak-3 Grouping at 600 Meters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktaH0kdKV80

Romak-3 Grouping at 113 yards
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qluUkOXwzfI


funny! Romanian PSL first time test fire (go to end of video. my girlfriend says this will be me in 5 years. I take that as a compliment).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_atWNZ3Mc40

===============================================================

some of my 300 yard no scope shooting. http://www.youtube.com/user/300YardNoScope


cantgrowup  [Member]
12/8/2009 2:11:30 AM EST
Originally Posted By Asmodeus:
Originally Posted By cantgrowup:
Originally Posted By Asmodeus:
Originally Posted By cantgrowup:
By the way... I had to return my first PSL because it would not fully go into battery with any ammo (new or surplus, brass or steel). They sent me a completely different rifle. Like I said... it's a crap shoot.


Mine did that too. Wouldn't go into battery with a round in it. So I pulled the round, checked for obstructions, swabbed the chamber looking for garbage. Gave it a little lube. And then tried again. It was still sticky and would not go into battery. So... I gave the charging handle a generous whack forward with the rifle pointed in a safe direction. It went into battery. THEN... it wouldn't open. Took both hands yanking on the charging handle to get it to release and when it did - it ejected the round like a rocket. It almost took an act of god to get it open.

From that point forward it took some working with subsequent rounds and manually racking it, and it was still sticky as hell. First time out I gave it a slight forward assist with the palm of my hand to be sure it was in battery and pulled the trigger. No problems.



I bet you sent back a perfectly good rifle.



For some silly reason, I figured that a sold-as-new $700 semi-auto rifle should go into full battery each and every time without me having to visually check to see if it did, or bang on it with a hammer. Call me particular, I guess. I thought I sent back a non-functioning piece of junk that should have been test fired before sending out to a schmuck customer. The replacement rifle (different serial number) functions flawlessly. Right now, all I know is that it doesn't seem to shoot well with Bulgarian ammo.


Its not "sold as new". It's a 30 year old military surplus rifle. Re-built in Romania from hacked up military rifles to meet US importation regulations.
Built to standards that are not the same as commercially sold guns of US manufacture. The bolt may have been sticky on the first round because the chamber is tight as it is new, and / or probably full of cosmoline, maybe a slight burr, or a small bit of grit. All of which disappears after the first time a case is fired and extracted under it's own power.

My concern would have been sending back a rifle over something silly, that could have potentially been a better shooter. You got a rifle with a tight chamber, so did I. You sent yours back, I didn't. Mine shoots well, and the replacement they sent you does not. My thoughts are you complained about a new rifle that was too tight - so they sent you a sloppy one.

And now you have a $700 rifle that's less accurate than a sling shot... was slapping a charging handle forward once really that bad?

You are indeed entitled to do whatever you feel is necessary to ensure your satisfaction with the merchandise you purchase. I just thought I would also point it out for the other people who may get them and they are a little sticky and tight from the beginning, that after the first time you either properly clean it - or fire a single round. That all goes away. What you did / do with yours is not my concern, but for the other people getting them that may encounter the same situation. I figured it would be beneficial to hear what happens when you don't send them back, and just go clean then shoot them.

That's all.


Wow! Why didn't I think of that. You mean I should have cleaned my rifle before shooting it? That's it! You discovered why it wouldn't go into battery. Boy do I feel foolish now. I'll bet my chamber was just chocked full of cosmoline and millscale and crap. Maybe there was already a broken off cartridge stuck up in there... or a twig. Man.... I should have cleaned it.

What kind of idiot do you take me for? You don't think I tried everything before sending it back? Different brands of ammo..... cleaning.... even put a chamber brush on a drill motor. It did fire a round every now and then, and the next wouldn't go fully into battery. Then I'd have to hammer the bolt back to eject the unfired round. I wonder why the gunsmith at my range couldn't get it to function either. Just because I wasn't willing to hammer the bolt forward and risk an OOBD like you. By the way... it is a new receiver built by Cigur (Does not have the military logo on it) Probably a new barrel also. Ever think that the chamber was undersized? ..... or maybe the headspace was way off? I wonder why Century didn't just clean out the barrel and send the same gun back to me? I didn't specifically ask for a different gun. Must've been something they didn't like either. Sheeez! Shoud have cleaned it before sending [a perfectly good rifle] back".......Gimme some credit, dude.
Asmodeus  [Member]
12/8/2009 9:29:53 PM EST
You gave no indication of any of that in any of your previous posts. I didn't call you an idiot. More like less than casually suggested you might have made a hasty decision and paid for it.

Have you still not tried any different ammo in the new one?
You said you tried all kinds of different ammo trying to get the first one to chamber properly, but you have still not shot anything but Hungarian surplus in the new one with the posted awful results?



I wouldn't fire a rifle that wouldn't fully chamber a round. I'm not suggesting that, and that was not the case with mine. It just took an abnormal amount of effort to do so the first time until it was fired. Which is far different than what you explained in your last post.

If your sensing aggravation it is because you still have not shot the new rifle with anything but Hungarian surplus, yet you are quick to denounce the rifle as a turd. However given your more detailed explanation in your last post. I can more clearly understand why. Out of 2 rifles, you are still batting zero. I truly hope the results change for you when you try different ammo.

You said you have other ammo so you probably aren't interested in a trade I was going to propose earlier. However if you would really like to put the ammo to the test, I will happily trade you a packet of Russian silver tip for a packet of your Hungarian. That way you had something else to try. And it could be determined whether it's just that ammo and your PSL, that ammo and any PSL, just bad ammo, and if your rifle shoots better on different food.

Although you are probably thinking some pretty mean thoughts in my general direction at this point so I can understand why you wouldn't be interested.
Either way it's up to you. PM if interested.
cantgrowup  [Member]
12/8/2009 9:47:34 PM EST
Originally Posted By Asmodeus:
You gave no indication of any of that in any of your previous posts. I didn't call you an idiot. More like less than casually suggested you might have made a hasty decision and paid for it.

Have you still not tried any different ammo in the new one?
You said you tried all kinds of different ammo trying to get the first one to chamber properly, but you have still not shot anything but Hungarian surplus in the new one with the posted awful results?



I wouldn't fire a rifle that wouldn't fully chamber a round. I'm not suggesting that, and that was not the case with mine. It just took an abnormal amount of effort to do so the first time until it was fired. Which is far different than what you explained in your last post.

If your sensing aggravation it is because you still have not shot the new rifle with anything but Hungarian surplus, yet you are quick to denounce the rifle as a turd. However given your more detailed explanation in your last post. I can more clearly understand why. Out of 2 rifles, you are still batting zero. I truly hope the results change for you when you try different ammo.

You said you have other ammo so you probably aren't interested in a trade I was going to propose earlier. However if you would really like to put the ammo to the test, I will happily trade you a packet of Russian silver tip for a packet of your Hungarian. That way you had something else to try. And it could be determined whether it's just that ammo and your PSL, that ammo and any PSL, just bad ammo, and if your rifle shoots better on different food.

Although you are probably thinking some pretty mean thoughts in my general direction at this point so I can understand why you wouldn't be interested.
Either way it's up to you. PM if interested.


I apologize for my mean-spirited reply. After getting my replacement rifle, I've only tried Bulgarian ammo with two different scopes, with little success. I have cases of Czech and Russian light ball and will try that this coming month (I was reluctant to open the spam cans on those until I shot up the Bulgarian, but since that's not shooting very well, I guess I'll have to try my other ammo). I work overseas a month at a time and haven't been able to shoot the rifle over the past month. So, I've been posting notes on my rifle's inaccuracy troubles but haven't yet been able to try the various suggestions I've recieved. I've promised in my "My PSL has M.O.B. accuracy" thread that I will update everyone on my results this coming month.

I had to laugh at the photo in the "PSL accuracy thread" showing the guy kneeling with rifle and a "shot gun spread" 25 ft. target. I feel his pain, although mine's not that bad. I have been trashing my PSL but it's kind of a love-hate relationship. It's a cool rifle, ammo is cheap, but it and I are currently on the outs. Right now, it's a turd. I'll keep working with it though.... I know it'll never be a 1 MOA rifle... I'm still trying for a 3 MOA Thanks for bearing with me. But I guarantee you... I can take my iron sight Yugo M70B1 and outshoot this scoped "marksman" rifle at 100 and 200 yds.
Asmodeus  [Member]
12/9/2009 7:21:40 PM EST
My crates of Russian light ball showed up today. So I'm swimming in it. After the third trip out and really solid results with it I ordered a ton of it. After seeing what you went through with the Bulgarian (not Hungarian as I mistakenly typed in my previous post) stuff. I didn't want to take chances on buying a tin of fairly useless ammo. Since I do not own any other rifles that shoot 54R. This stuff is cheap comparitively speaking, but only cheap packed in bulk, and then being so hit and miss... if you eat a tin or two of ammo that just won't shoot... it gets awfully expensive quickly. I figured buying what I knew worked / same stamping / same year etc was the best way to shield myself from encountering what you did.

Aside from the previous suggestions of removing the scope (and shooting with irons) I would pop that tin of Russian stuff in first order and go shooting.
It also makes sense now that you might not want to open multiple sealed tins. I wouldn't. (And thus did not shoot anything else)

I genuinely hope your results with it are like mine. Which have been fucking outstanding.
This should remove all of your buyers remorse on about the second magazine if I had to guess.


Or it really is a turd. Which would be unfortunate.
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