Lazy's PT1911 Log

There's a lot of bias around these 1911's, some pro; some con. I got one last Fall, and the purpose of this is to be a log on the actual experience with this pistol over the life of it. Rather than paper records, I figure I'll just update this as I go. I'm going to try to be impartial. In any event, bear in mind this is one (1) datapoint. Based on the what people say, I'm guessing that Taurus QC is spotty at times. Like any manufacturer, one good or bad experience may not be indicative of what your gun will be like.

Gun: Taurus PT1911 SS. Purchased Fall 2008 in Central WI. Gun came from a distributor to the dealer after the purchase was made, so assumed to be a relatively recent model. Purchase price was $615 (after taxes) - $75 rebate = $540. Taurus file photo attached for reference.


Came in a lockable foam lined hard plastic carry case. Foam is a bit flimsy, so uncertain how good a long term case this will be. So far no issues other than that the foam fell out, so used Elmers glue to hold the foam of the case in place. Came with two 8 rnd blued magazines, two keys to lock the hammer, a takedown tool, a cleaning brush, an allen wrench, and various manuals/papers.

Purchased as a general use 1911. Stainless steel selected for the higher corrosion resistance and general "cleaner" appearance where scratches won't show so bad as the gun ages. Not intended as a carry/competition/ or serious home defense gun, but desirable to be usable in the function if called upon. Intend to shoot a couple IDPA matches with it.

Initial trigger pull (as measured with a digital fish scale and a coathanger) = 6# 7oz. Some scatter to the results, however this could be due to the fish-scale, which does not record the break-weight.

Nov '08: Fired 100 rounds (Blazer). No Jams. Recoil is more severe than 9mm life, suspect there is trigger slap because finger hurts. Investigation while dry firing / dry slide racking shows no trigger slap, apparently this is just life transitioning from 9mm to .45. Observed that empty casings have a dent on the rim now, which could make reloading them tricky as might bind up in dies. Read on AR15.com that this is unusual and that this might be odd. Later observed that friends Kimber .45 does the same to his brass. Later observed an STI .45 does the same. Have not observed a 1911 not do this. Conclude that the PT1911 doing this to the brass must not be so odd after all.

Nov '08: "stacked" the hammer by applying upward pressure while pulling the trigger a few times. (supposed to smooth it out).

Nov '08: Fired another 100 rounds (Blazer). No Jams. Friend appeared to have a hard time with the grip safety. Appears to be a user issue. Loosened rear sight and drift adjusted it (was shooting a few inches to the left). Total round count:200

Jan '09: Friend sent an arched mainspring housing, for the more traditional contour. Replaced Factory housing with this. Also replaced the leaf spring with a new Wolff spring in order to lighten the high spring tension on the grip safety. Also replaced the mainspring with a lighter Wolff to lighten trigger pull even more. Got some snap caps. Many dry fires now. Brother also sent me two 8rnd SS Chip McCormick mags (Thanks!)

Winter '09: Fired 200 rounds (mixed blazer and 1970's GI ball - 230 gr). Thought I observed a hammer follow when friend was firing it. Total round count = 400.

Winter '09: While dry firing at home, observed that the hammer-follow when dropping the slide on a magazine with snap caps. Concerned.

Winter '09: Posted on AR15.com, was advised to replace all parts with factory originals. Did so, but kept the lighter mainspring. Hammer follow on snap caps did not go away.

Winter '09: Replaced the MS with the factory mainspring. Hammer follows have now stopped.

Mar '09: Fired 150 rounds (WW Whitebox). No jams, no hammer follows. Getting more used to shooting a .45 - trigger finger no longer feeling any problems. Total round count = 550.

April '09: Fired 75 rounds (Blazer). No jams or issues. Accuracy good. Grip panel came lose (it had been removed before during some of my prior maintenance and apparently wasn't tightened enough). No detriment to reliability noted. Retightened. Total round count =625

May '09: Fired 50 rounds (Blazer). No jams or issues. Total round count = 675.

May '09: Remeasured trigger pull, it is now 4# 12 oz. Unsure why it has dropped from the original 6# 7oz. Will continue to monitor.

June 27, 2009: Fired 63 rnds at an IDPA match. + 27rnds after for 100 rounds total. No jams. Fired Blaser .45 in Taurus and McCormmic 8rnd mags. Did discover that dropping a round in the pipe and dropping the slide doesn't always work: once the slide didn't close on that. Other 1911 shooters mentioned that one should never do this - hard on the extractor. Stopped doing that. Functioned well during the rapid fire and stressed firing stages. Safety lever worked well, though I wonder if it's too light for safe field carry. Found that .45 recoil wasn't really an issue, but only having 8 rnds per mag is a huge disadvantage. During the range session, had two ejected casing hit me in the head. Not sure why - good reminder to continue to wear eye protection. Out of the 5 1911's there today, observed an STI 1911 jam (slide drop on fresh mag issue) and a Colt 1911 jam (unsure what the issue was). Observed one Glock 9mm jam (slide didn't fully close).
During range session, noted sights may need to be adjusted - hitting 1-2 inches to the left at 25 yards. Impressed that my groupings were tight enough that I could notice something that fine. Total round count =775.

June, 2009: Both grip panels loose again. Retightened.

July, 2009: First gun failure. Fired 60 rounds of Blazer .45 shells.
At shot 45 of the string, the full length guide rod went flying out the end of the gun. Disassembled and discovered the threaded end of the rod had come unscrewed from the flat end that holds it in place. Screwed the two pieces back together, and within 7 rounds it came flying out again. Stopped shooting for the day. Closer inspection showed the staking of the guide rod, to prevent unscrewing, was insufficient and now completely compromised. Attempted to make a fresh staking, and ended up stripping out the threads from the hammer blow. Threads are now compromised. Left it with a friend who will weld the two pieces together. No reason for this to be screwed together in the first place. Expect to be back in operating by this time next week. May just purchase a replacement guide rod.

In addition, the grip screws came lose again. This time hit the gun with degreaser and applied lock-tight to the screws. Hopefully this will be the last of that recurring annoyance. Do all 1911's walk things that are threaded so quickly? I guess technically not a jam, since the gun continued to function without the guide rod. Not really kosher either. Total round count = 835

July 10, 2009: Guide rod repaired by a friend with a spot welder. Installed Fired 3 magazines of +P police ammunition. Experienced jams. Rounds appeared to be hung up on or by the extractor, so the slide was not fully closing. The police ammo was smoking hot, so slide velocity was very high - perhaps this was a factor. The full length guide rod broke at the weld after about 14 rounds. Damn, Ok going to just toss the crappy Taurus rod and buy a replacement rod. They're cheap. Not overly troubled by the jams, but am curious if installing shock-buff's will temper the high slide velocity with +P ammo and stop the jams. Might try that next time. Total round count = 850

July 15, 2009: Brownells order came in. New full length guide rod (EGW SS; $25). Looks decent enough, doesn't appear to be threaded, which is a plus. Retained the old Taurus endcap (i.e. the thing on the end of the slide, that the guide rod slides through). I like the original better because it has a little hook in it that the spring can hook into. Also upgrade the spring to a 18.5 lb Wolff spring ($8), to try and solve the jamming issue with the +P ammo. Curious what effect that will have - and if it does work, what effect that will have on the standard ball ammo. Didn't upgrade the fireing pin spring though, may do that latter. (is this really that important?) Will try to test this weekend. Total Round Count = 850

July 23, 2009: Fired 1 box of blazer .45 and a box of Federal Police +P Tactical. No jams with the Blazer, so this standard load had enough power to cycle the heavier 18.5 lb spring. The +P ammo was noticeably hotter. Concerned about long-term shooting +P ammo; maybe I should install a shock-buff. Experienced 2 jams with the +P, both were failure to completely close into battery. Both jams occurred with the second to last round with the Taurus magazines. No jams with the McCormick Magazines, but not enough data yet to conclude anything on that. Conclude that ball performance was very good (for the one box tested), but that more tests with the McCormick magazines and the +P ammo is needed before willing to rely on that combination. Total Round Count = 950

Sept 13, 2009: Fired 1 box of blazer .45. Accurate and flawless operation. Fired one magazine of Police +P .45 ammo. One failure to feed, wouldn't close into battery (looks like an extractor hangup?). This was with the McCormick magazine and the heavier recoil spring. Looks like neither of those is sufficient to make this ammo reliable in this 1911. Fired 1 box of .45 reloads from a friend. Lead semi-wad cutters. Numerous failures to close into battery with these rounds. Primers were completely flattened too, though recoil wasn't all that noteworthy. Conclusion: gun continues to be reliable and accurate with 230 gr ball, but when diverging from that reliability seems to suffer. Total Round Count = 1057.

Sept 16, 2009. Fired 70 rounds of blazer .45. No jams. Accuracy continues to impress. Reliably hitting 6"- 8" reactive steel disks at 50' off-hand, of the 6 disks on the stand, would finish clearing it with rounds still left in the 8 round magazine. Total round count = 1127.

Nov 1, 2009. Fired 50 rounds of blazer .45, 11 rounds of police +P, and 2 rounds of random ammo. The gun still occasionally jams up on the +P. As before, the jam is a FTF on the next round. As before, I'm not too worked up about it, I don't think this gun was designed for that kind of hot ammo. Experience first 230 gr ball jam with Blazer in a while though - a premature slide lock. Cause, unknown: everything looked fine and the magazine and next round, as viewed through the ejection port, looked properly positioned and normal. Gun functioned fine for the rest of the box. Total round count = 1190

Experienced one ejected casing whack me in the forehead, and another hit me in the eye!! Bounced right off my cornea - good Lord, the one time I wasn't wearing eye protection this happens. Fortunately, the contact lens prevented the eye from getting scratched up.

Nov 11, 2009. Fired 100 rounds of Blazer .45. No failures of any kind. Total round count = 1290.

Feb 13, 2010. Fired 150 rounds of Blazer .45. 75 rounds in an IDPA match, and 75 rounds after, for practice. 1 operator induced failure. On a reload, was advised that some professionals rack the slide manually, rather than using the slide release. So I tried that during an IDPA stage. Didn't work - due to operator error. And caused a brief stoppage, because the slide hung up on the new round - and had to be pushed closed manually. What happened was I rode the slide forward a little bit too, which robbed its spring energy and made it close too slowly. Not really a gun failure. IDPA match included rapid fires, reloads, and dropping mags into the snow. Observed that in cold weather the heat waves off of a hot chamber can be seen while sighting. No equipment failures. Total round count = 1440

March 14, 2010. Fired 9 magazines (72 rounds) of Blazer .45. No failures of any kind. Sights are still on target. Total round count = 1512

(Continuation of above post, new entry)
May 9, 2010. Fired 100 ro
unds of Blazer .45. No failures of any kind. Fired from 15 and 25 yards. Accuracy testing disappointed today. Possible shooter fatigue limitation (I stayed up too late last night, and had already fired rifles for an hour prior to pulling out the .45). One trend that was odd - the first round of every magazine was hitting high today.

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
May 15, 2010. Fired 16 rounds (.45 was an afterthought to todays session). No failures of any kind. Accuracy performance was more satisfying. Average distance to center was 7.3 MOA. Shooting about 1" high at 15 yards. Total round count = 1628
http://i42.tinypic.com/4j4879.jpg

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––-
August 21, 2010. Fired 60 rounds at an IDPA match. No failures of any kind. Total round count = 1688
PT1911 IDPA

October 22, 2010. Fired 93 rounds. One premature slide lock, possible due to holding strange while fireing from a bench position. Total round count = 1781.

This space reserved for future updates.

Very cool! I'll subscribe to this one for updates!

I picked up mine back in February. Total round count is now just under 800. I have found that mine will not load HP bullets with the mag inserted and slide forward, loading from an open slide causes no problems. I had 2 rounds (230gr ball) nose-dive at around 100-200 rounds, could have been caused by the above issue but I wasn't paying too much attention as it happened while my father was shooting. I noticed that one of the magazines I bought from ammoman will not lock the slide back on empty so that one has been marked for reference. Other than that the only other non-magazine issue I had was twice last weekend the action cycled and the hammer was back but it would not release the hammer until I racked the slide. I haven't been back out to check it out again, but suspect it didn't fully go into battery.

I got mine to see how I like the 1911 platform and have been happy with my purchase so far. After shooting a couple 1911's I still haven't gotten used to the slim grip profile. I might look into some slightly thicker panels, but for now I'm still adjusting to the pistol. If I do everything right I can get under 2" groups but the majority of my groups are holding around 3-4" at 15 yards. Again, I don't think this is a problem with the pistol, I just don't get as much range time as I would like, nor as often as I would like. I haven't measured the pull on the trigger yet, it feels slightly heavier than I would like but is very crisp with no over travel and only a tiny bit of creep in the take up before releasing. Would I recommend this pistol to someone? Sure. Would I buy another? Well, first I've got my eye on an STI Trojan or Spartan, a SAA, a S&W model 327, and the list goes on.

keep the rounds going downrange, I'm looking forward to seeing how yours holds up.

Great log! I purchased mine 4 months ago now, and have just put my 450th round through it (damn ammo shortages! I can find 9mm all day long but not 45s). The ONLY issue Ive had to this point is that the magazine will not feed 8 HP's. I load the mag full and try to rack a round it gets held up. However, If i load the mag with only 7 rounds it feeds flawlessly. I am wondering if maybe I need to buy some quality magazines. Other than that, I love this gun. It shoots straighter out of the box than my M&P9. As far as customer service goes, well I havent had an issue with this gun, but my revolver that needed work was returned to me free of charge in 2 months.

If I had a log it would be this:

Purchased PT1911
Shot 50 rounds through it, found stock mags to be shit.
Ordered new Wilson Combat ETMs.
Shot about 600-700 more rounds, 0 feeding issues with new mags.
Replaced all trigger internals with Wilson Combat parts.
Shot about 200 rounds, still no problems.

I love this gun!

Had one since they first came out. Several hundred rounds thru it. Hardball, reloads, lead SWC, all without a hitch. Replaced the grips with some wood ones, a cosmetic thing. Happy with mine.

...

First failure! Technically gun didn't jam, but not cool either. See update in OP. Basically, the full-length guide rod is screwed into a flat piece and staked into place so it doesn't unscrew upon firing. The staking did not hold up, and it unscrewed while firing. Causing the rod to fall out of the end of the gun. Gun still functioned, but was without a guide rod anymore. Going to repair by welding the pieces together permanently.


Ironically, friends Kimber also was not servicable by the end of the day. His slide-stop engagement point is too long and the raising rounds were causing it to activate mid-string. When replaced with the slide-stop from the PT1911 (which was already out of commision by this time), the Kimber became 100%. Friend will file a little off the end of his slide-stop using the PT1911's as a template.

Good read. My first 1911 was a blued PT1911. I sold it and bought a Colt Series 70. Since then I've picked up a Para Ordnance and my father gave me a complete slide assembly with working parts for a old Colt Combat Commander. I bought a frame and the frame parts, and it's currently being fitted and put together by a gunsmith for me. Before I dropped off the combat commander I was regretting selling my PT1911 about a year ago, but I found a nice duo tone model at my local dealer and picked it up. I'm very happy with it and won't be selling this one.

I put another hundred rounds through my PT1911 this weekend. I'm at about 900 rounds and found that the previously mentioned issue I had was that the round under the one being chambered would move forward slightly in the magazine and was keeping the slide from going fully into battery or something like that. Anyway, 900 rounds and nothing has broken or fallen off. Just some magazine issues. The frame is still tight and shoots great. I'll tear it down completely for a full cleaning after the next range session and give it a detailed looking over. I put some new wood grips panels on that feel better in my hands. They aren't thicker in the middle, but at the edges. Still has the same slim overall profile, but fills the hand better instead of having a "gap" between the front strap radius and the grips.

Good pistol, I'm enjoying it.

Updated OP. Repaired guide rod didn't work - it snapped into two again, so just going to throw that away and buy an aftermarket rod. Also experienced 3 jams today with +P police hollow point ammo. Not sure how much I blame the gun for those jams - it wasn't designed for +P ammo. The crappy guide rod is disappointing.

Nice read.

Note: NEVER EVER drop a round in the chamber and drop the slide. VERY bad for the gun and could accidently fire if the round is not in correctly all the way. You WILL destroy the extractor tension doing this. [why it's bad for the gun]

Did you keep the FLGR or go with the normal USGI length one?

.

.

update to OP: reads as follows:

July 23, 2009: Fired 1 box of blazer .45 and a box of Federal Police +P Tactical. No jams with the Blazer, so this standard load had enough power to cycle the heavier 18.5 lb spring. The +P ammo was noticeably hotter. Concerned about long-term shooting +P ammo; maybe I should install a shock-buff. Experienced 2 jams with the +P, both were failure to completely close into battery. Both jams occurred with the second to last round with the Taurus magazines. No jams with the McCormick Magazines, but not enough data yet to conclude anything on that. Conclude that ball performance was very good (for the one box tested), but that more tests with the McCormick magazines and the +P ammo is needed before willing to rely on that combination. Total Round Count = 950

I put one in my pt1911 (wilson Combat brand i believe) but it would prevent the slide from locking open on empty. i couldn't even get it to lock back when cycling by hand. the buffer wouldn't allow the slide back far enough to engage the stop. It really threw me for a loop too. The first thing i did when i got home from the gunshop with my pt1911 was break in down, clean it, and put in a shock buff. fucking around with it after that i noted the slide wouldn't lock back. i was convinced that's just the way the gun was (stupid fucking taurus, why would you put a slide release on a gun that didn't lock open!!!!). over a couple months i put a couple hundred rounds through it like that. I even called taurus (and didn't tell them about the shock buffer) and they told me to send it in. so i broke it down to clean it, didn't put the shock buff back in, and low, magically the slide would lock back. i felt pretty fucking stupid.

Great postings I love this forum.

Updated OP. Broke the 1000 rnd mark today. Gun continues to shoot 230 gr ball ammo reliably and accurately, however reliability suffers with hot +P loads and with some reloads.

...

I am following this thread very closely. I am not only enjoying the detailed product review you are doing (and you are doing a very good job btw) but I am also using it as a basis to make my decision as to whether or not I will purchase a PT1911. Please keep up the good work and keep those range updates coming.

same here. After hearing good and a lot of bad from guys in the 1911 forum on the Taurus 1911, i was weary of buying one. This thread has shown me that i should get one.

Update to OP. 50 more rounds of Blazer. One premature slide lock - cause unknown. Also, be sure to always wear your eye protection.

can you expand on the hammer follow with a snap cap? How did you test to see if that would happen?

Another poster is having problems with his Taurus having hammer follow, so this is written for him, and should answer your question as well.

New entry update to OP.

Replaced the safety with a WC single extended and slide lock with a WC slim-extended. I use Chip McCormick SS mags (8round-blue) and have been satisfied with results. Three of the four Taurus mags were ok, the 4th needs to be rebuilt (bad spring). I replaced stock grip with something a bit more form fitting (I have large hands). I also had to file down parts of the slide, frame (near extractor including part of the extractor) and the mag well. Other than not staying locked open on one mag (when empty), it shoots like a champ now.

I finally got my PT1911 up over 1000 rds. Shot 150 through it last weekend without a hitch. The only worry I have is that I noticed some wear between the bushing and the barrel now. Kind of like galling. I must have gotten some dirt , soot or somehting in there and it started wearing. I'm still liking my purchase.

Much of the bashing is from those that, 1) have not tried the pistol, 2) are "if it's not a Colt it's junk crowd, or 3) just bash it because it's a Taurus. I bought two blued model's when they first came out, ( I already owned and still own Kimber and Springfield Armory 1911's) to compare them with. I fired one and kept the other NIB, that I later traded for a stainless model PT1911. Both have shot just fine with any ammo and have had zero part failures of any kind. Keep in mind that 1911's were designed for 230 grain ball ammo, but after a break-in period with ball they should function with HP ammo. I have not had a problem using WWB JHP 230 grain ammo in any of my 1911's. For those hesitant about the Taurus 1911, keep in mind that for the same money you only get a base, GI model from other makers. OK, it's not a Springfield, Colt, Kimber, etc but it is a good option in a 1911 for much less cash than what the others cost. The only reason I don't carry mine daily is because I like the size and weight of my Kimber Tactical Ultra, 3" barrel and 25 oz vs about 35 oz and 2" more to hide in a FS 1911.

Thank you. This one thread and its problems with a Taurus 1911 convinced me I need NOT buy one. Probably not any 1911 in fairness to Taurus.

Why in Goodness Me would I want to buy a 1911 that in a thousand round sample has the following defects:
*Failures to fire-reason unknown
*Guide rod unscrewing, breaking
*Grip screws repeatedly coming out
*Failures to eject-cannot use +P .45acp (which leads to screwing with springs which leads to other problems.)
*Slide locking open befoe mag is empty (unless of course it is your thumb pushing it up.
*An aside: I have "held" several in stores that had such a weak thumb safety spring holding the manual safety in position that simply gripping the gun pushed the safety up. Perhaps the slide lock is equally weak springed and applies itself. Perhaps these weak springs are why 1911 shooters usually put their thumb on top of the manual safety so it does not engage itself.
*Some consensus that the Taurus mags are of low quality causing 8+1 failures to cycle the top round when the one in the chamber fires, refusing to feed hollow points, and some late in the stack (last or next to last rounds) failing to feed.
*Taurus mags allowing nosedives jambing things up.

No matter the 1911, McCormick magazines seem of good quality.

With my recent terrible experience with a KelTec PF-9 pocket rocket 9mm, I surely don't need another out of the box problem child. All I want is a machine that runs when fed good ammo and kept clean and lubed. I don't want a plaything to fix, parts swap to make run, or breakage to modify/fix.

I would state without hesitatiion that the Shooters here accept problems that should never exist. For a full size combat pistol to exhibit in various combinations all of these problems is rediculas (sic). I was careful to filter out the "Lazy" created problems from the ones inherent in the stock pistol. I did not list the ones he created parts swapping for fun or necessity. Old Polish Proverb: The acceptance of less than excellence is an invitation to defeat. Or was that John Hoover?

The problems in this one thread exceed everything that has ever gone wrong with 7 Glocks and 40,000 rounds of centerfire ammo through them.

That was specifically when a early single pin M17 with 10,000 9mm and that many more Advantage Arms .22LR in a converter started to not eject handloads and needed the small slide parts replaced and a new operating spring. Even then it worked perfectly with factory ammo, but reloads from range pickup chewed up rim brass needed new parts. The M17 has run an additional 1000 9mm NATO loads flawlessly. The other six have been flawless since taken out of the box in 9mm, .40. and .45acp.

Thank you again for saving me from another headache. The guys who say things like "working through reliability issues but I'd carry it" tell me nothing useful. An honest listing of defects is refreshing. Thanks Engineer.

So you are gonna write of all 1911a1 pistols off of one thread about one 1911a1 pistol.

OK, I will do the same thing, I would never ever think about buying a Glock, because one time I saw one new Glock 26 have a catastrophic failure the first time it ever hit the range. After thousands and thousands of rounds down range from my 5 differant 1911a1 pistols (including a Taurus) I have never had any problems, let alone damage to the gun so bad it could not shoot anymore.

I dont really believe this, Glock makes a fine pistol, but shit happens. No one and no machine is exempt. Condemning a whole platform off of one post is just as ridiculous as condemning one brand of firearm from one first hand account.

It's interesting how some view the information in the thread and conclude that the Taurus is a great buy, and others view the same information and conclude that it's not acceptable.

One thing I've noticed - people say everything is just fine all the time. But when you look at the detailed logs, there is always some minor issue, some breakage, or sometimes even something major wrong. I've grown to learn that "I've shot thousands of rounds and never had a problem" is rarely true. Minor hickups tend to be forgotten. Which is why I started this log.

In my opinion, my sample 1911 has performed quite well - with the exception that the guide rode broke. I'm OK with that. maybe you won't be.

I fully understand not all Taurus 1911s and not all 1911s would exhibit such a range of things needing a remedy. It was interesting to see so many different issues noted in one thread. It highlights the sorts of things that might occur one by one with other samples of the same pistols.

I was already familiar with the Taurus magazine non dependability issues. Likewise, I have been incredulous over the ability of the safety system to move itself upward into safe simply by taking a firm grip with a low right thumb over top of my index finger such as is used on a DA revolver or to lock in a Glock grip. The web of my hand has pushed the safety up into safe on every one I have picked up to look at.

My point would be that the price point of the Taurus 1911s is very attractive, but the thread does nothing to convince me to spend even that small sum of money on a "flyer" just to see how it works. It actualy does the opposite. It tells me there are too many potential problems to expect a trouble free sample. At a minimum it will cost me new mags.

I have neither dislike nor like for the Colt type 1911. I do think that there are way better firearms upon which to bet my life.

I spent two years carrying a Series 70 Gold Cup in the mid 1970s, oddly for today, loaded with 45acp ball ammo because that is all we had to run the Thompsons with. I was very sure it was more effective than the 158LHP .38 Special that the agency proscribed for M10-M19 Smiths. But that Gold Cup did absolutely load, fire, eject, and reload every single time through about 4000 rounds over those two years. It was easier to shoot accurately on combat courses at 8 times per year qualifications than any revolver ever made. But that was the 1970's when Colt was still Colt and it was with FMJ ball. I don't recall there being any hollow point stuff at the time besides Super Vel. At the time a large agency would issue revolvers, but those with demonstrated competence could carry a Super 38 or .45acp at the discretion of the office head. That stopped the day one of the guys ND'd a round in the office in his desk while overly excited by a visiting secretary. The next day all the auto packers reloaded revolvers and that was that. The Gold Cup became two M66s.

As to 1911s in general, I would like to have one just to be cool and relive the old days. My Glock M21 just isn't the same as a 1911. But it would have to be dependable. Probably more something on the order of a Rock River than anything else I know about.

I hear ya but would like to say- I had a Glock 21 that had over 20,000 rounds ( thanks to metro Dade swat) through it without a single issue with function of pistol- it was a Great shooter. Then again I've seen one fail during a IDPA comp. They guy couldn't finish his stage. The same with 1911's of various makes and models. Then I had a cheap Llama pistol that ran like a champ and only cost 300 bucks. Go figure. I always seem to get a great product when I buy something- no matter what it is- call it blessed I guess. Some people are just the opposite- What ever they buy seems to go to crap. I guess it sucks to be them...

My Glock 21 has never ever not once done any thing besides work. I love it because it works. But it is no fun. There is nothing to do besides aim and pull the trigger.

I keep thinking a 1911 with safetys and doo dads might be more fun. A barbeque gun. There is something to do when you shoot it. On the other hand, it would have to work 100%. There is no substitute for working.

I believe it is true more then you'd think. Especially with all the things us 1911 owners do to try and mess up our guns. Not to mention the manufactuers ongoing quest to make them tighter and prettier. 1911s are pretty much the hotrods of the gun world, owned by enthusiasts who want more horse power and bling, the manufactuers recognize this also.

Of course I have had 1911s that had a FTF or FTE at one time or another. Sometimes it was the guns fault, but most of the time it was my fault. Case in point my Kimber Tactical custom 2 was supplied with one Kimber 7 round mag. Shot just fine with that 7 rd mag no hick ups from day one. But I wanted 8 rd mags so I bought Wilson 8 rd mags and would have a FTE every third mag or so. Is this the guns fault or mine for going with an aftermarket mag. By the way went with another aftermarket 8 rd mag (tripp) and all is well no problems since.

Another case in point Colt 1991a1 compact have owned this gun for 15 years, the only problems I can ever rememmber is the slide not locking back on the last round when I failed to replace the mag springs in a timely manner. Again can you blame the gun for my lack of maintenance.

This one was the gun, a Parra Warthog, no matter what I tryed I could not get that gun to be reliable enough for carry. It had a failure to feed problem. I sold it.

In the last three years I started keeping track of all my range outings with notes and round count. In that time I have bought two 1911 pistols that have never malfunctioned or had a broken part from day one a Kimber Ultra CDP and a Taurus PT1911SSAR. I have shot my reloads FMJ, LRN and factory HP. My stock Taurus mags have both worked great as well as the Chip Mc. mags I bought for it. The Kimber has only used the stock mag and Tripps.

The one 1911 I own that amazes me the most is a Kimber Pro-CDP bought new in 2001, gods honest truth I can never remmember having a failure with it. I know for a fact that since I started my log there has not been one and it likes wilson mags just fine and any other mag I put in it.

I am sure some time down the road all of my guns will have a failure of some sort. They are machines and all machines fail with enough use or lack of.
But I honestly believe that the 1911 gets a bad internet rap when it comes to reliabilty. The Glock was designed and built to be simple and reliable and it is just that.

But I perfer hotrods to Hondas, may need a little more maintenace. But darn they are alot more fun.

Considering the vigor with which folks here speak well of Taurus PT1911s, I thought on it some. I decided I really don't know what to think anymore on this topic. I don't think a 1911 style .45acp is worth the $1500-3000 a name one is going to cost, not even a Rock River. The Taurus PT1911 seems a choice without going too far outside the cookie jar. I don't really need one between revolvers and Glocks, but I keep wanting one.

This morning I dialed up the 305 area code number for Taurus customer service and spoke to a very nice fellow. They apparently do not get too many people calling asking questions before they buy a Taurus firearm. He very nicely answered every question I could think up about the well madeness and dependability of the PT1911s. A few relevant points would be:

*As to being trouble free out of the box, he said they get back less than 1% of their US shipped PT1911s for warranty service.
*The sights are now Novak * * * three dot which I think is a good change from the stacked 8 kind.
*Out of the box a new owner should fire 200-300 hardball rounds as a breakin of the machine.
*After the 200-300 rounds have been fired, hollowpoints should be tried/used at the owners choice.
*After the 200-300 round breakin, Federal HydraShock or Speer Gold Dots should be expected to function through the factory supplied magazines reliably. He knew of no issues with the factory supplied magazines.
*He explained the factory waranty service in some detail.
*A PT1911B is the basic blue steel gun.

So I am thinking of buying one just to promote the economy, have some fun, and see if it actually works.

As a complete aside, I also asked about the PT132, a 10+1 .32acp. The fellow knew they were first made in 2002, but he had not had a customer service call about them in 6 or 7 months. He didn't know what to say about them since he only deals with problems.

I notice a total lack of response to my question in a different thread here about the PT132. It is an item of interest only because of having 1000 rounds of .32acp ball and hollowpoints stashed somewhere.

Lampshade, cant help you on the pt132. Never seen one let alone shot one. But as far as Taurus goes, I have had good luck with them and good customer service. Something that they seem to get slammed on more then thier QC.

I own three Taurus handguns, a small portion of my handgun collection. My first one was a m85 titainium ultralite 2" snub .38. Right off the batt, I had a problem with the sear hammer engagment. Called thier custmer service line (maybe talked to the same guy, very friendly and helpfull) To make a long story short in 9 days I had my .38 back fully functional and still is, all shipping paid by Taurus. I dont know but thats pretty good CS to me, much differant then everything I've read.

My other two Taurus guns are my PT1911SSAR, no failures or problems so far. and a little PT22 wanted a little 22 plinker but did not want to spend too much. Had a couple FTE with the first two mags, but after that only a couple of ammo related failures.

Taurus is not the best gun maker, but they are far from the worst. They have a large selection and are reasonble priced, like I said I have had good luck with them and would not hesitate to buy another if they had a gun that meet a need or a wont.

Hopeless.

Went to Buckeye Outdoors on I-70 in Ohio today $ in hand. As part of Vance's in Columbus, they are the largest stores in Ohio by far.

The had every model of Taurus revolver and all the plastic bottom metal topped .380-9mm-40-45 varieties imaginable, ad nauseum.

Silly me, I asked where are the PT1911s? Guy says down in the 1911 section. Went there. Where are the PT1911s? Guy says we only have one as he pointed to a older SS model with stacked 8 sights,, but you don't want to buy that. Guy says there are lots of better guns for about the same amount of money that will hold their value better.

But I don't want some other kind. Guy says well look at this STI Spartan, Phillipines frame and slide with genuine STI hammer and trigger. Guy says look at this Kimber entry level gun. They both looked pretty much stripped to me. No metal checkering, nothing nice looking. The STI had such a bad looking frame, I had to ask if it was metal or plastic. Guy says both are not much more than the Taurus. I said actually with a price in the middle $700s, the Taurus has gone way up. Guy says, yeah, well, we charge list for them.

Guy says besides if you target shoot, you don't want any of these. They had more expensive models of Kimbers and Springfields and Colts there. I think I can smell a mutt selling what they got. Guy kept asking what I wanted it for. To shoot I says. Guy half indignant over whether for targets or this or that. I finally told him I wanted to buy a Taurus just to shoot and F around with and that I shoot a Glock for serious things. More dumb responses over why all the others are better guns, stripped or not.

I asked him about PT132's. He said they had not sold one in his memory. No one wants a .32acp. Told him, I might. They didn't have one. He told me everyone wants a Slim. He showed me a 9mm-40S&W Slim. Slim it wasn't. It sure is no pocket gun I said. Guy asked what I would know about pocket guns. Pointed to my right front pants pocket and said a pocket gun fits into my pocket like this M&P340. Guy said he had not noticed. I pointed out that was the whole idea of a pocket gun.

Went home. Wife took all the cookie jar money back. Now up the creek.

I ordered mine from Buds awhile back price was around 630.00. No tax or shipping charges just had to pay a FFL to do the paper work. Not saying it was the best deal but thought it was fair.
Pt1911SSAR, stock Taurus mag (black) Chip Mc. 8 and two 10 round mags.



With SIG light/laser. Home defense setup.

(Update to OP).

Amazing post. I love the unbiased scientific approach of just explaining what happened without trying to sway one way or the other.

I'm going to shoot a Taurus 1911 at a rental range this weekend. It's on a short list of guns I'm considering purchasing. I'm willing to trade off round count for a reduced grip profile because of my smaller than average hands.

I put another 120 rounds of FMJ and Hornady TAP through my 1911 last week. I think that makes it almost 1200 rounds now, but a few more than 1100 for sure. No more issues to note, it functioned without a hitch again.

lazy, I finally got mine well over the 500 round mark, I havent made it out to the range much cause of weather and all. but here's a lil good news...
first I switched over some of the internals with some springfield parts I got on the EE.
the reason for the switch was not due to parts failures problems etc... but I wanted to change up the color of mine.
I did have one issue with the grip interfering with the(springfield) thumb safety but a little dremmel work and problem solved.
so as of 500+ on my stainless pt1911 no problems or issues

accuracy so far is holding up VERY WELL too.. decent grouping (no bench rest here) and it WILL hit a 8"x11" paper target at 100 yards!!!! as a matter of fact last weekend I shot a 5 out of 8 on paper and this weekend 3 out of 5, not too bad for open sights....next time I will get pics(ranage was busy this weekend)! I do have one arfcom witness...so if proof is needed I'll see if I can dig him up.

Actually that's not true there little fellow.. When ever you have a weapon that will and is being used for self defense and or daily carry- you tend to remember when and if you have had a malfunction with it- simply because it tends to put doubt into your mind about the reliability of the very weapon your shooting with. With that being said you will try and find the root cause of why it has malfunctioned. Was it the gun or the shooter ? After shooting a few IDPA matches my G19 had only had 1 malfuntion after 1000's of rounds and I can still remember it today- light primer strike. But not the guns fault- just cheap ammo with hard primers. And how do I remeber ? because at the time it was one of my primary carry weapons. Sorry but I have a great attention to detail when ever talking about function of my weapons. I'm over 1,000 right now on my pt1911 and haven't had 1 failure while shooting. I did however have an issue with my CM power mags when I first got them. 8 rounds were a bit tight when loaded into the pistol and sometimes pistol wouldn't load the first round when they were new. All is good now and cycles just fine.

I would recommend you buy one, then you will know why 1911 shooters always bag on Glock triggers.

Update to OP. 72 rounds fired today with no failures of any kind. Round count has now broken 1500 rounds.

Below not added to OP, since not part of the Taurus. But an interesting range log item: Friend showed up with a "used" Springfield National Match 1911 in Stainless Steel. This gun was new, I suspect the prior owner never fired it, or if he did, less than one box total. It didn't even appear like it had been handled. To avoid annoyance at the low price he got it for, I'm not even going to report it. Being the good friend I am, I helped break it in today, and fired over 200 rounds through it - upon request baby! With friend providing the ammo (woot!). The Springfield was insanely tight, and accurate. Quality exceeded the Taurus. It did however jam quite a bit, with at least a dozen failure to fully close into battery. Easily fixed by just pushing the slide closed with the thumb. In comparison, the Taurus has loosened up a good bit with the increasing round count, but continues to shoot freakishly accurate. The looseness IMHO is likely improving reliability. Here's what the two guns look like side-by-side.

No real conclusions from this, other than a broken in Taurus is more reliable than an essentially new Springfield National Match gun. Which isn't much of a conclusion. Not realistic to judge the Springfield until it hits closer to 500 rounds IMHO.

New entry - update to OP - May 9,2010

Update to OP.

Lazy,

Thanks for your posts. This has been informative.

I may pick one up if the price is right.

Max

Thanks for the appreciation. I have not had chance to shoot it in the last few months - work travel and when I do have time, I've been gearing up for rifles at Camp Perry.

Copyright © 1996 - 2013 :: AR15.Com LLC :: All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.