Archived Posts » 59,726,163
Millenium Pro Accidental/negligent discharge?
4/22/2010 11:54:30 PM
Please don't flame me for this. I'm just the messenger.
My buddy just called a few minutes ago and told me about this. He has a 9mm Millenium Pro PT111 that he picked up about a week ago. He hasn't put any rounds through it yet. He had ordered a Bianchi holster for it which ended up not fitting. Might have ordered for the wrong model. So he went to the store today and bought a Don Hume.
So he has this gun in it's new holster, safety on and one in the chamber. He claims that he was in his living room and attempted to pull the gun from the holster, when it fired. He claims that his finger was off the trigger, and the safety was on. Went into the wall and didn't exit the house. No one was hurt. (Good thing it wasn't a .45). Also, he said the round did not eject. I'm not sure if this is because it was still in the holster. Although I'm pretty sure he said the gun had cleared the holster when it went off.
For what it's worth, this kid is a pretty honest guy. I think he would have either not told me at all, or would have told me the truth if he believed that he had touched the trigger.
So what says the hive? Is there any chance that his story is true? I know there is no such thing as a true AD and guns don't just go off and all that. I just don't know much about the mechanics of this model.
Tomorrow we are going to take the gun to the range and see if we can get it to do the same thing.
Like I said, I wasn't there and am not saying that this guy did not screw up. Just wondering if there could be anything to this story. Thanks.
My buddy just called a few minutes ago and told me about this. He has a 9mm Millenium Pro PT111 that he picked up about a week ago. He hasn't put any rounds through it yet. He had ordered a Bianchi holster for it which ended up not fitting. Might have ordered for the wrong model. So he went to the store today and bought a Don Hume.
So he has this gun in it's new holster, safety on and one in the chamber. He claims that he was in his living room and attempted to pull the gun from the holster, when it fired. He claims that his finger was off the trigger, and the safety was on. Went into the wall and didn't exit the house. No one was hurt. (Good thing it wasn't a .45). Also, he said the round did not eject. I'm not sure if this is because it was still in the holster. Although I'm pretty sure he said the gun had cleared the holster when it went off.
For what it's worth, this kid is a pretty honest guy. I think he would have either not told me at all, or would have told me the truth if he believed that he had touched the trigger.
So what says the hive? Is there any chance that his story is true? I know there is no such thing as a true AD and guns don't just go off and all that. I just don't know much about the mechanics of this model.
Tomorrow we are going to take the gun to the range and see if we can get it to do the same thing.
Like I said, I wasn't there and am not saying that this guy did not screw up. Just wondering if there could be anything to this story. Thanks.
4/23/2010 12:43:33 AM
Originally Posted By JA_Magnum:
Please don't flame me for this. I'm just the messenger.
My buddy just called a few minutes ago and told me about this. He has a 9mm Millenium Pro PT111 that he picked up about a week ago. He hasn't put any rounds through it yet. He had ordered a Bianchi holster for it which ended up not fitting. Might have ordered for the wrong model. So he went to the store today and bought a Don Hume.
So he has this gun in it's new holster, safety on and one in the chamber. He claims that he was in his living room and attempted to pull the gun from the holster, when it fired. He claims that his finger was off the trigger, and the safety was on. Went into the wall and didn't exit the house. No one was hurt. (Good thing it wasn't a .45). Also, he said the round did not eject. I'm not sure if this is because it was still in the holster. Although I'm pretty sure he said the gun had cleared the holster when it went off.
For what it's worth, this kid is a pretty honest guy. I think he would have either not told me at all, or would have told me the truth if he believed that he had touched the trigger.
So what says the hive? Is there any chance that his story is true? I know there is no such thing as a true AD and guns don't just go off and all that. I just don't know much about the mechanics of this model.
Tomorrow we are going to take the gun to the range and see if we can get it to do the same thing.
Like I said, I wasn't there and am not saying that this guy did not screw up. Just wondering if there could be anything to this story. Thanks.
Please don't flame me for this. I'm just the messenger.
My buddy just called a few minutes ago and told me about this. He has a 9mm Millenium Pro PT111 that he picked up about a week ago. He hasn't put any rounds through it yet. He had ordered a Bianchi holster for it which ended up not fitting. Might have ordered for the wrong model. So he went to the store today and bought a Don Hume.
So he has this gun in it's new holster, safety on and one in the chamber. He claims that he was in his living room and attempted to pull the gun from the holster, when it fired. He claims that his finger was off the trigger, and the safety was on. Went into the wall and didn't exit the house. No one was hurt. (Good thing it wasn't a .45). Also, he said the round did not eject. I'm not sure if this is because it was still in the holster. Although I'm pretty sure he said the gun had cleared the holster when it went off.
For what it's worth, this kid is a pretty honest guy. I think he would have either not told me at all, or would have told me the truth if he believed that he had touched the trigger.
So what says the hive? Is there any chance that his story is true? I know there is no such thing as a true AD and guns don't just go off and all that. I just don't know much about the mechanics of this model.
Tomorrow we are going to take the gun to the range and see if we can get it to do the same thing.
Like I said, I wasn't there and am not saying that this guy did not screw up. Just wondering if there could be anything to this story. Thanks.
I own the same gun, it's highly unlikely. If the safety was engaged, it prevents the slide from moving and the trigger from firing. I have 2 guesses to what may have happened, 1 when he drew the gun from the holster, he mistakenly pushed the safety off with his thumb, it works similar to a 1911. 2, after breaking down my gun real quick to look, when the safety is engaged a small metal tab moves up to block the rear movement of the trigger. If this is a used or abused gun, it may have been broken. This would explain how the round didn't eject if the slide stop part still worked as advertised. Either way his finger or something entered the trigger guard in the sequence of events somewhere.
Here's a quick pic of the safety, you can see when engaged this little tab comes up (red circle in both pics) and blocks the trigger movement (yellow square in both pics)
If you don't see the tab, I would say there's the issue and send the gun back to Taurus to repair immediately.
Disassembly and reassembly can be just a little tricky with this gun so have patience, the barrel moves around and sometimes jacks up the reassembly. If your gun looks like this when reassembling
Carefully manipulate the slide while holding the gun inverted to allow the barrel to drop back down then try again.
Remember practicing with a new holster should be done with a CLEAR and SAFE weapon. Glad no one got hurt, and I hope this helps.
Tim
4/23/2010 12:51:43 AM
Originally Posted By SharpCharge:
I own the same gun, it's highly unlikely. If the safety was engaged, it prevents the slide from moving and the trigger from firing. I have 2 guesses to what may have happened, 1 when he drew the gun from the holster, he mistakenly pushed the safety off with his thumb, it works similar to a 1911. 2, after breaking down my gun real quick to look, when the safety is engaged a small metal tab moves up to block the rear movement of the trigger. If this is a used or abused gun, it may have been broken. This would explain how the round didn't eject if the slide stop part still worked as advertised. Either way his finger or something entered the trigger guard in the sequence of events somewhere.
Here's a quick pic of the safety, you can see when engaged this little tab comes up (red circle in both pics) and blocks the trigger movement (yellow square in both pics)
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n171/koolf4/gun%20stuff/pt-111-2.jpg
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n171/koolf4/gun%20stuff/pt-111.jpg
If you don't see the tab, I would say there's the issue and send the gun back to Taurus to repair immediately.
Disassembly and reassembly can be just a little tricky with this gun so have patience, the barrel moves around and sometimes jacks up the reassembly. If your gun looks like this when reassembling http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n171/koolf4/gun%20stuff/pt-111-3.jpg Carefully manipulate the slide while holding the gun inverted to allow the barrel to drop back down then try again.
Remember practicing with a new holster should be done with a CLEAR and SAFE weapon. Glad no one got hurt, and I hope this helps.
Tim
Originally Posted By JA_Magnum:
Please don't flame me for this. I'm just the messenger.
My buddy just called a few minutes ago and told me about this. He has a 9mm Millenium Pro PT111 that he picked up about a week ago. He hasn't put any rounds through it yet. He had ordered a Bianchi holster for it which ended up not fitting. Might have ordered for the wrong model. So he went to the store today and bought a Don Hume.
So he has this gun in it's new holster, safety on and one in the chamber. He claims that he was in his living room and attempted to pull the gun from the holster, when it fired. He claims that his finger was off the trigger, and the safety was on. Went into the wall and didn't exit the house. No one was hurt. (Good thing it wasn't a .45). Also, he said the round did not eject. I'm not sure if this is because it was still in the holster. Although I'm pretty sure he said the gun had cleared the holster when it went off.
For what it's worth, this kid is a pretty honest guy. I think he would have either not told me at all, or would have told me the truth if he believed that he had touched the trigger.
So what says the hive? Is there any chance that his story is true? I know there is no such thing as a true AD and guns don't just go off and all that. I just don't know much about the mechanics of this model.
Tomorrow we are going to take the gun to the range and see if we can get it to do the same thing.
Like I said, I wasn't there and am not saying that this guy did not screw up. Just wondering if there could be anything to this story. Thanks.
Please don't flame me for this. I'm just the messenger.
My buddy just called a few minutes ago and told me about this. He has a 9mm Millenium Pro PT111 that he picked up about a week ago. He hasn't put any rounds through it yet. He had ordered a Bianchi holster for it which ended up not fitting. Might have ordered for the wrong model. So he went to the store today and bought a Don Hume.
So he has this gun in it's new holster, safety on and one in the chamber. He claims that he was in his living room and attempted to pull the gun from the holster, when it fired. He claims that his finger was off the trigger, and the safety was on. Went into the wall and didn't exit the house. No one was hurt. (Good thing it wasn't a .45). Also, he said the round did not eject. I'm not sure if this is because it was still in the holster. Although I'm pretty sure he said the gun had cleared the holster when it went off.
For what it's worth, this kid is a pretty honest guy. I think he would have either not told me at all, or would have told me the truth if he believed that he had touched the trigger.
So what says the hive? Is there any chance that his story is true? I know there is no such thing as a true AD and guns don't just go off and all that. I just don't know much about the mechanics of this model.
Tomorrow we are going to take the gun to the range and see if we can get it to do the same thing.
Like I said, I wasn't there and am not saying that this guy did not screw up. Just wondering if there could be anything to this story. Thanks.
I own the same gun, it's highly unlikely. If the safety was engaged, it prevents the slide from moving and the trigger from firing. I have 2 guesses to what may have happened, 1 when he drew the gun from the holster, he mistakenly pushed the safety off with his thumb, it works similar to a 1911. 2, after breaking down my gun real quick to look, when the safety is engaged a small metal tab moves up to block the rear movement of the trigger. If this is a used or abused gun, it may have been broken. This would explain how the round didn't eject if the slide stop part still worked as advertised. Either way his finger or something entered the trigger guard in the sequence of events somewhere.
Here's a quick pic of the safety, you can see when engaged this little tab comes up (red circle in both pics) and blocks the trigger movement (yellow square in both pics)
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n171/koolf4/gun%20stuff/pt-111-2.jpg
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n171/koolf4/gun%20stuff/pt-111.jpg
If you don't see the tab, I would say there's the issue and send the gun back to Taurus to repair immediately.
Disassembly and reassembly can be just a little tricky with this gun so have patience, the barrel moves around and sometimes jacks up the reassembly. If your gun looks like this when reassembling http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n171/koolf4/gun%20stuff/pt-111-3.jpg Carefully manipulate the slide while holding the gun inverted to allow the barrel to drop back down then try again.
Remember practicing with a new holster should be done with a CLEAR and SAFE weapon. Glad no one got hurt, and I hope this helps.
Tim
Thanks for the reply. I will go to the range tomorrow with him and inspect the gun in a safe place. I think it's a brand new gun. I told him that he shouldn't have been messing around with a chambered gun which he hasn't ever fired.
4/23/2010 12:52:47 AM
I know the sear isn't the best built on those guns, but the firing pin block should have stopped it if it let go without the trigger being depressed.
Was the gun new or used? ETA if it was used, some one may have not installed the block, or installed it incorrectly so it doesn't work.
Was the gun new or used? ETA if it was used, some one may have not installed the block, or installed it incorrectly so it doesn't work.
4/23/2010 12:55:49 AM
Originally Posted By Madcap72:
I know the sear isn't the best built on those guns, but the firing pin block should have stopped it if it let go without the trigger being depressed.
Was the gun new or used? ETA if it was used, some one may have not installed the block, or installed it incorrectly so it doesn't work.
I know the sear isn't the best built on those guns, but the firing pin block should have stopped it if it let go without the trigger being depressed.
Was the gun new or used? ETA if it was used, some one may have not installed the block, or installed it incorrectly so it doesn't work.
Apparently brand new.
4/23/2010 12:58:06 AM
1 last note, when removing the slide from this gun, once you pull the disassembly pin and release the slide, you need to pull the trigger to remove the slide from the frame. Let me know the outcome.
4/23/2010 11:19:34 AM
i own the same gun and it is known to fire with the safty on witch would not let the round eject. its caused by leaving pressure on the trigger when you put it on safety not everyone does it. have him check his gun to see if he has a bad safety if so he needs to return it for a fix. Now for it going off with out the bogger hook on it or snagging it in the holster is not likely.
4/23/2010 1:18:07 PM
Originally Posted By countryboyny:
i own the same gun and it is known to fire with the safty on witch would not let the round eject. its caused by leaving pressure on the trigger when you put it on safety not everyone does it. have him check his gun to see if he has a bad safety if so he needs to return it for a fix. Now for it going off with out the bogger hook on it or snagging it in the holster is not likely.
i own the same gun and it is known to fire with the safty on witch would not let the round eject. its caused by leaving pressure on the trigger when you put it on safety not everyone does it. have him check his gun to see if he has a bad safety if so he needs to return it for a fix. Now for it going off with out the bogger hook on it or snagging it in the holster is not likely.
So, are you saying that every one of these guns has the potential to do this if the trigger has pressure when putting the safety on? Or is this a fixable problem?
I still haven't had a chance to look at the gun, but he's bringing it by in a while. I did get a bit more clarification on the issue. He says he had completely cleared the gun from the holster. It was pointed downward at the wall, with his finger off the trigger and it fired. About one or two seconds after it had cleared the holster. He dropped the mag and went to clear the chamber and couldn't pull back the slide because the safety was still engaged. When he did clear the slide, he realized the spent round hadn't ejected.
ETA: Ding ding ding, we have a winner. I went and checked out the gun for myself. The trigger has about a half inch or so of play in it. Whe you set the safety normally, it locks the trigger firmly in place. but if you pull the trigger a little bit and take up that slack while you set the safety, the trigger mechanism is locked in a way which still allows the gun to fire. And the round would probably not be able to eject because the slide is locked in place.
So, he still thinks he did not touch the trigger, but has come to accept that something must have caught on it without his knowledge.
As I said before, is this normal for this gun or does he need to have it fixed? It doesn't seem right, but I guess if that's just how it's designed, he has to be extra careful when engaging the safety.
4/23/2010 4:32:30 PM
no not everyone you need to check if you do have the problem. simply hold the trigger in with out firing it and put it on safety now pull the trigger it should not fire if it does you have a bad safety. youtube has a few vids on it i suggest you do a search on there. and taurus will fix it just wait the 8 or more weeks or months what ever it is taurus does.
4/23/2010 4:39:45 PM
sorry to hear about the nd and that the gun was a fail. Now call the rude lady at taurus and get a shipping label.
4/23/2010 4:59:04 PM
Thanks for the info. I'm just glad that no one got hurt. I'll tell him to get it sent back.
4/23/2010 10:03:28 PM
i thought they fixed this issue in the newer generation pistols ?
4/23/2010 10:28:47 PM
Originally Posted By dan1802:
i thought they fixed this issue in the newer generation pistols ?
i thought they fixed this issue in the newer generation pistols ?
Apparently not. It was brand new. I watched the youtube videos and it's the exact same issue. It's pretty messed up if you ask me. I told my buddy that he had to have snagged the trigger on something. But it's still a pretty big flaw in thhe design of that gun.
4/23/2010 11:10:50 PM
Hmmm...... I've never had an issue, and I've had this gun for a while, 8 years I think. I'll try and duplicate it next time I'm at the range since I carry this gun frequently.
4/24/2010 9:52:40 AM
Originally Posted By JA_Magnum:
Apparently not. It was brand new. I watched the youtube videos and it's the exact same issue. It's pretty messed up if you ask me. I told my buddy that he had to have snagged the trigger on something. But it's still a pretty big flaw in thhe design of that gun.
Originally Posted By dan1802:
i thought they fixed this issue in the newer generation pistols ?
i thought they fixed this issue in the newer generation pistols ?
Apparently not. It was brand new. I watched the youtube videos and it's the exact same issue. It's pretty messed up if you ask me. I told my buddy that he had to have snagged the trigger on something. But it's still a pretty big flaw in thhe design of that gun.
hmm thats disappointing, i have had a pt145 and heard of the issue while i had the pistol but never could get that model to do it.
I also heard theyu started fixing them with their newer models but i guess not.
I like taurus in general but im always alittle off on there newer pistols. i do like there 92 line and revolvers though
4/24/2010 4:11:05 PM
I've seen this demonstrated before, in fact, I can duplicate it with my PT145. My question is, why the hell would you engage the safety with your finger on the trigger? It takes way more than just "slight" pressure on the trigger in order to achieve this also. If you put the safety on, take your finger off of the trigger first. Not only seems simple, but smart regardless of the firearm.
Admittedly, it does NOT explain the AD/ND as previously described. I've seen new shooters do some pretty dumb things and my bet is that this would be one of those times. Check the gun to be sure it wasn't mechanical in nature and LEARN from the mistake.
Admittedly, it does NOT explain the AD/ND as previously described. I've seen new shooters do some pretty dumb things and my bet is that this would be one of those times. Check the gun to be sure it wasn't mechanical in nature and LEARN from the mistake.
4/28/2010 3:31:44 AM
It was "in the holster", but then it "hit the wall"?
Sorry OP, sounds like your buddy's full of crap.
Sorry OP, sounds like your buddy's full of crap.
4/29/2010 3:37:53 PM
I know taurus isnt the greatest firearm manufaturer, they may break when you fire them they may not fire when you try to fire them but they have like 3 safetys on the thing besides using the firearm in the manner they are speaking of there really is no way to fire this pistol unless the safety is off and you pull the trigger.
7/11/2010 11:06:39 PM
I have a PT145 millennium, have had it for over 5 years, and it's never given me a problem. It's my primary carry weapon. Shot it at the range today without a hitch.
I just wanna say that these are fine carry weapons, and overly safe, so, I would think that something is wrong with that particular firearm. These guns have a tremendously long trigger pull and a very obvious safety, as well as a chamber indicator. Of all the guns and safety mechanisms I considered before buying a concealed carry weapon, this one seemed to have all the safest/best features rolled into one gun... (I do not buy the grip/trigger safety, nor a hair trigger for a carry weapon).
I would guess that the issue described here was either user error or a malfunctioning individual weapon, as, having carried and used this thing for 5+ years and never having any sort of problem (I've even dropped it, twice, with a round in the chamber).
The only issue is that if you don't keep the feed ramp oiled and clean you can get jams in the .45 model.
I just wanna say that these are fine carry weapons, and overly safe, so, I would think that something is wrong with that particular firearm. These guns have a tremendously long trigger pull and a very obvious safety, as well as a chamber indicator. Of all the guns and safety mechanisms I considered before buying a concealed carry weapon, this one seemed to have all the safest/best features rolled into one gun... (I do not buy the grip/trigger safety, nor a hair trigger for a carry weapon).
I would guess that the issue described here was either user error or a malfunctioning individual weapon, as, having carried and used this thing for 5+ years and never having any sort of problem (I've even dropped it, twice, with a round in the chamber).
The only issue is that if you don't keep the feed ramp oiled and clean you can get jams in the .45 model.
7/21/2010 2:38:58 PM
I've got an older 111, will be going to the range ASAP. Sounds like you have to go out of your way to set up this for failure, but shooting one of my kids would end me. I hate that this is a case, as I love this pistol
I just hope my nerves and consience don't get the best of me now (watch the WA EE if I do).
I just hope my nerves and consience don't get the best of me now (watch the WA EE if I do).8/8/2010 9:24:56 PM
He lied.
I saw the pictures above, and they were of the Millennium not the PRO model.
First off, there is a firing pin block that keeps the firing pin from ever going forward even if the striker/firing pin came off the sear. Only when you pull the trigger back far enough does a little tab push the firining pin block up and out of the way, and ONLY then will the firing pin have enough clearance to hit the primer.
In the following picture I have the slide off and my right thumb is pushing the firing pin forward as my left thumb pushes the firing pin block up out of the way so that the firing pin can actually go past this little block. Even if the safe is off, that trigger needs to be pulled back far enough that it pushes that block up out of the way, or the firing pin (striker) simply can not go forward and strike the primer. It is an ingenious way to preven the firearm from firing if accidently dropped.
So, no, the pistol won't fire just from pulling it from the holster. The trigger had to have been pulled back as the weapon drawn or else the pistol would not fire. I'm 57, been shooting since 9, a Deputy for a number of years and I've seen such accidental discharges, and no one should be practicing quick draw in a house with live ammo.
I saw the pictures above, and they were of the Millennium not the PRO model.
First off, there is a firing pin block that keeps the firing pin from ever going forward even if the striker/firing pin came off the sear. Only when you pull the trigger back far enough does a little tab push the firining pin block up and out of the way, and ONLY then will the firing pin have enough clearance to hit the primer.
In the following picture I have the slide off and my right thumb is pushing the firing pin forward as my left thumb pushes the firing pin block up out of the way so that the firing pin can actually go past this little block. Even if the safe is off, that trigger needs to be pulled back far enough that it pushes that block up out of the way, or the firing pin (striker) simply can not go forward and strike the primer. It is an ingenious way to preven the firearm from firing if accidently dropped.
So, no, the pistol won't fire just from pulling it from the holster. The trigger had to have been pulled back as the weapon drawn or else the pistol would not fire. I'm 57, been shooting since 9, a Deputy for a number of years and I've seen such accidental discharges, and no one should be practicing quick draw in a house with live ammo.
8/8/2010 9:45:19 PM
dumb friend plus shitty gun equals hole in the wall. Maybe he should go get some professional instruction on the rules of gun handling while Taurus fixes the gun.
8/9/2010 4:57:54 PM
I don't think the pistol need fixed by Taurus. He (friend) needs to keep his finger out of the trigger guard. Only way to fire it, is to pull the trigger rearward. Block will keep the striker (firing pin) from going forward otherwise.
8/9/2010 5:28:52 PM
Having worked at a range and watched plenty of Tauruses go TU, I can *almost* believe it but not quite. Hell we had a new pt145 rental gun that went full auto after 100 rounds due to poor sear engagement. Still, more than likely and ND.
BTW Taurus 1911's are surprisingly good guns compared to how crappy the rest of them are.
BTW Taurus 1911's are surprisingly good guns compared to how crappy the rest of them are.
