Archived Posts » 60,546,157
transition to hk mag release Q
1/12/2012 9:31:12 PM
How much practice did it take you all to get the HK mag release to be second nature? I'm contemplating picking up a p30 but this is really my only concern...well that and the price of mags 
1/12/2012 9:35:05 PM
Zero problems, picked it up immediately.
Just take your trigger finger and slide it downward and tap the magazine release which engages in a downward motion toward the ground which will release the magazine.
Very easy, fast, causes zero shift in gun position dropping a magazine, ambi, and more importantly if you carry alot and ever had your gun while in the holster be pressed up or bumped into like knocking into a counter or the tightness from your seat belt press into the holster and engage the magazine release, it is impossible to do so with the HK paddle style magazine release.
Just take your trigger finger and slide it downward and tap the magazine release which engages in a downward motion toward the ground which will release the magazine.
Very easy, fast, causes zero shift in gun position dropping a magazine, ambi, and more importantly if you carry alot and ever had your gun while in the holster be pressed up or bumped into like knocking into a counter or the tightness from your seat belt press into the holster and engage the magazine release, it is impossible to do so with the HK paddle style magazine release.
1/12/2012 10:08:50 PM
Within 30 seconds.
But of course it was my first handgun.
But of course it was my first handgun.
1/12/2012 10:12:38 PM
I carry an HK duty gun but use Glocks exclusively off duty. I haven't found it to be a problem. I've worked enough with each to the point I've got both in grained.
1/12/2012 11:14:54 PM
I took me 25-50 mag changes before I got 100% comfortable with using my trigger finger to drop the mags. Now is is second nature and I wonder why anyone would put the mag release under the thumb, and now that seems clumsy.
1/12/2012 11:21:25 PM
it's down instead of in... it's really not much of a difference nor is either difficult/thought provoking
my p2000 has the ambi mag release so i usually use the shooting finger but sometimes i use the thumb or both to push it down
my p2000 has the ambi mag release so i usually use the shooting finger but sometimes i use the thumb or both to push it down
1/12/2012 11:23:23 PM
So do most use the trigger finger to release the mag? Or thumb?
1/12/2012 11:40:11 PM
If you have large hands then thumb actuation is a piece of cake and you don't have to adjust your grip and point the weapon all over the place. Otherwise you can use you index or middle finger with ease.
Honestly, the mag release on HK's is a huge selling point for me now.
Honestly, the mag release on HK's is a huge selling point for me now.
1/13/2012 1:33:49 AM
Originally Posted By GrizzlyAdams:
So do most use the trigger finger to release the mag? Or thumb?
So do most use the trigger finger to release the mag? Or thumb?
I use my middle finger. I find it a lot easier than the traditional push button release.
1/13/2012 8:30:31 AM
I use my trigger finger. I have a lot of different guns and the two best mag releases IMO are the HK and the AR. In both cases, the finger comes off the trigger and goes to the mag release button; makes perfect sense.
1/13/2012 12:26:47 PM
Originally Posted By D-RAS03:
I use my middle finger. I find it a lot easier than the traditional push button release.
Originally Posted By GrizzlyAdams:
So do most use the trigger finger to release the mag? Or thumb?
So do most use the trigger finger to release the mag? Or thumb?
I use my middle finger. I find it a lot easier than the traditional push button release.
This. I feel there is a greater potential for an ND/AD with the trigger finger.
1/13/2012 12:33:40 PM
Originally Posted By Lowlands:
This. I feel there is a greater potential for an ND/AD with the trigger finger.
Originally Posted By D-RAS03:
I use my middle finger. I find it a lot easier than the traditional push button release.
Originally Posted By GrizzlyAdams:
So do most use the trigger finger to release the mag? Or thumb?
So do most use the trigger finger to release the mag? Or thumb?
I use my middle finger. I find it a lot easier than the traditional push button release.
This. I feel there is a greater potential for an ND/AD with the trigger finger.
+1. Middle finger, and it's so much easier than a thumb release.
1/13/2012 1:36:03 PM
It took no time at all to get it. Now I find myself using my trigger finger on the ambi mag release on my XD as well. The HK system really is the best. And I can still run my Glock, CZ75, and others without a bobble.
1/26/2012 5:30:40 PM
Originally Posted By D-RAS03:
I use my middle finger. I find it a lot easier than the traditional push button release.
Originally Posted By GrizzlyAdams:
So do most use the trigger finger to release the mag? Or thumb?
So do most use the trigger finger to release the mag? Or thumb?
I use my middle finger. I find it a lot easier than the traditional push button release.
This!
I find it very fast and I dont have to shift the weapon in my hand to reach the magazine release with my thumb like I have to do with my Glocks, Sigs, or 1911's.
1/27/2012 11:30:53 AM
Originally Posted By Lowlands:
This. I feel there is a greater potential for an ND/AD with the trigger finger.
Originally Posted By D-RAS03:
I use my middle finger. I find it a lot easier than the traditional push button release.
Originally Posted By GrizzlyAdams:
So do most use the trigger finger to release the mag? Or thumb?
So do most use the trigger finger to release the mag? Or thumb?
I use my middle finger. I find it a lot easier than the traditional push button release.
This. I feel there is a greater potential for an ND/AD with the trigger finger.
1/27/2012 11:46:27 AM
I transitioned quickly. The first time I took my P2000 out I never loaded more than 5 rounds into the 5 magazines I have for it.
First day I fired about 250 rounds. Thats roughly 50 magazine changes. I got used to it real quick.
First day I fired about 250 rounds. Thats roughly 50 magazine changes. I got used to it real quick.
1/28/2012 9:53:28 PM
Originally Posted By D-RAS03:
I use my middle finger. I find it a lot easier than the traditional push button release.
Originally Posted By GrizzlyAdams:
So do most use the trigger finger to release the mag? Or thumb?
So do most use the trigger finger to release the mag? Or thumb?
I use my middle finger. I find it a lot easier than the traditional push button release.
Same here.
1/29/2012 11:50:14 AM
I still use my thumb, mainly because I carried a Sig-Sauer as a duty pistol for 15 years. I still occasionally carry a Glock and don't want to confuse myself even further. I love my P30 and wish I could use it for work, but department policy does not allow HK (bonehead management).
Honestly, I think people focus a little to much on the mag release and quick changes. Although it is a good survival skill to have, in my 20+ years of law enforcement, I have never met anyone involved in a force encounter (shooting) that had to reload in a combat situation. Im sure it has happened, but that is very rare.
99% of folks that carry a pistol (including cops) DO NOT carry extra magazines in an off duty situation. Something to think about...
Honestly, I think people focus a little to much on the mag release and quick changes. Although it is a good survival skill to have, in my 20+ years of law enforcement, I have never met anyone involved in a force encounter (shooting) that had to reload in a combat situation. Im sure it has happened, but that is very rare.
99% of folks that carry a pistol (including cops) DO NOT carry extra magazines in an off duty situation. Something to think about...
1/29/2012 12:07:21 PM
Originally Posted By Gibsonguy30:
I still use my thumb, mainly because I carried a Sig-Sauer as a duty pistol for 15 years. I still occasionally carry a Glock and don't want to confuse myself even further. I love my P30 and wish I could use it for work, but department policy does not allow HK (bonehead management).
Honestly, I think people focus a little to much on the mag release and quick changes. Although it is a good survival skill to have, in my 20+ years of law enforcement, I have never met anyone involved in a force encounter (shooting) that had to reload in a combat situation. Im sure it has happened, but that is very rare.
99% of folks that carry a pistol (including cops) DO NOT carry extra magazines in an off duty situation. Something to think about...
I still use my thumb, mainly because I carried a Sig-Sauer as a duty pistol for 15 years. I still occasionally carry a Glock and don't want to confuse myself even further. I love my P30 and wish I could use it for work, but department policy does not allow HK (bonehead management).
Honestly, I think people focus a little to much on the mag release and quick changes. Although it is a good survival skill to have, in my 20+ years of law enforcement, I have never met anyone involved in a force encounter (shooting) that had to reload in a combat situation. Im sure it has happened, but that is very rare.
99% of folks that carry a pistol (including cops) DO NOT carry extra magazines in an off duty situation. Something to think about...
Well what about your gun jams? Mag fails?
1/29/2012 4:31:23 PM
If the gun jams in the middle of a shooting the only thing you will have time to do is a 'Tap-Rack-fire' (Tap the mag to make sure its seated, rack the slide and fire another round). You will not have time to try another magazine.
Fast magazine changes are important to know for IDPA, but not in the real world. Trust me on this, I've been a cop for a long time and 99% of the cops I know DO NOT carry extra mags when off duty. 99% of civilians who do concealed carry DO NOT carry extra mags on their person. I also stand by the statement that I've never heard of a shooting where anyone had to reload or do a magazine exchange.
So once again, its a useful thing to know...and should always be part of your firearms training. However your muscle memory will take over if you do it a lot.
The best training you can do is to wear your regular street clothes (not 511 Tactical garb you might wear on the range), stand in front of a full length mirror and practice drawing from your everyday carry rig (after you insure the gun is unloaded of course...I use snap-caps)
You will learn more about your gear doing this than 10 times at the range. I consider myself a gear whore in the first degree....but it amazes me that most guys do not practice using their everyday carry stuff, they have a different setup on range day than what they carry.
Cops are the worst offenders of this. We will qualify with our tactical gear, and never practice using our everyday off-duty holsters.
Again, just my 2 cents.
Fast magazine changes are important to know for IDPA, but not in the real world. Trust me on this, I've been a cop for a long time and 99% of the cops I know DO NOT carry extra mags when off duty. 99% of civilians who do concealed carry DO NOT carry extra mags on their person. I also stand by the statement that I've never heard of a shooting where anyone had to reload or do a magazine exchange.
So once again, its a useful thing to know...and should always be part of your firearms training. However your muscle memory will take over if you do it a lot.
The best training you can do is to wear your regular street clothes (not 511 Tactical garb you might wear on the range), stand in front of a full length mirror and practice drawing from your everyday carry rig (after you insure the gun is unloaded of course...I use snap-caps)
You will learn more about your gear doing this than 10 times at the range. I consider myself a gear whore in the first degree....but it amazes me that most guys do not practice using their everyday carry stuff, they have a different setup on range day than what they carry.
Cops are the worst offenders of this. We will qualify with our tactical gear, and never practice using our everyday off-duty holsters.
Again, just my 2 cents.
1/29/2012 4:42:31 PM
Originally Posted By Gibsonguy30:
If the gun jams in the middle of a shooting the only thing you will have time to do is a 'Tap-Rack-fire' (Tap the mag to make sure its seated, rack the slide and fire another round). You will not have time to try another magazine.
Fast magazine changes are important to know for IDPA, but not in the real world. Trust me on this, I've been a cop for a long time and 99% of the cops I know DO NOT carry extra mags when off duty. 99% of civilians who do concealed carry DO NOT carry extra mags on their person. I also stand by the statement that I've never heard of a shooting where anyone had to reload or do a magazine exchange.
So once again, its a useful thing to know...and should always be part of your firearms training. However your muscle memory will take over if you do it a lot.
The best training you can do is to wear your regular street clothes (not 511 Tactical garb you might wear on the range), stand in front of a full length mirror and practice drawing from your everyday carry rig (after you insure the gun is unloaded of course...I use snap-caps)
You will learn more about your gear doing this than 10 times at the range. I consider myself a gear whore in the first degree....but it amazes me that most guys do not practice using their everyday carry stuff, they have a different setup on range day than what they carry.
Cops are the worst offenders of this. We will qualify with our tactical gear, and never practice using our everyday off-duty holsters.
Again, just my 2 cents.
If the gun jams in the middle of a shooting the only thing you will have time to do is a 'Tap-Rack-fire' (Tap the mag to make sure its seated, rack the slide and fire another round). You will not have time to try another magazine.
Fast magazine changes are important to know for IDPA, but not in the real world. Trust me on this, I've been a cop for a long time and 99% of the cops I know DO NOT carry extra mags when off duty. 99% of civilians who do concealed carry DO NOT carry extra mags on their person. I also stand by the statement that I've never heard of a shooting where anyone had to reload or do a magazine exchange.
So once again, its a useful thing to know...and should always be part of your firearms training. However your muscle memory will take over if you do it a lot.
The best training you can do is to wear your regular street clothes (not 511 Tactical garb you might wear on the range), stand in front of a full length mirror and practice drawing from your everyday carry rig (after you insure the gun is unloaded of course...I use snap-caps)
You will learn more about your gear doing this than 10 times at the range. I consider myself a gear whore in the first degree....but it amazes me that most guys do not practice using their everyday carry stuff, they have a different setup on range day than what they carry.
Cops are the worst offenders of this. We will qualify with our tactical gear, and never practice using our everyday off-duty holsters.
Again, just my 2 cents.
I wasn't disagreeing with you. Just a question. Iv had a base plate fall off a mag once. One time is 10 years.
1/29/2012 8:30:10 PM
Funny you should mention that...I was eating lunch one day at a BBQ joint in Georgia. The floor plate of my Sig P226 mag came off some how and launched 15 rounds of 9mm Federal Hydro-shok all over the floor. Thats what you call an awkward moment!
1/29/2012 8:57:02 PM
Originally Posted By D-RAS03:
I use my middle finger. I find it a lot easier than the traditional push button release.
Originally Posted By GrizzlyAdams:
So do most use the trigger finger to release the mag? Or thumb?
So do most use the trigger finger to release the mag? Or thumb?
I use my middle finger. I find it a lot easier than the traditional push button release.
This. I index my trigger finger at the same time. It's a lot easier than it sounds.
1/29/2012 8:59:53 PM
Originally Posted By Gibsonguy30:
Funny you should mention that...I was eating lunch one day at a BBQ joint in Georgia. The floor plate of my Sig P226 mag came off some how and launched 15 rounds of 9mm Federal Hydro-shok all over the floor. Thats what you call an awkward moment!
Funny you should mention that...I was eating lunch one day at a BBQ joint in Georgia. The floor plate of my Sig P226 mag came off some how and launched 15 rounds of 9mm Federal Hydro-shok all over the floor. Thats what you call an awkward moment!
If that happened to me in public I have no idea what I would do.
1/29/2012 9:03:42 PM
Originally Posted By Gibsonguy30:
If the gun jams in the middle of a shooting the only thing you will have time to do is a 'Tap-Rack-fire' (Tap the mag to make sure its seated, rack the slide and fire another round). You will not have time to try another magazine.
Fast magazine changes are important to know for IDPA, but not in the real world. Trust me on this, I've been a cop for a long time and 99% of the cops I know DO NOT carry extra mags when off duty. 99% of civilians who do concealed carry DO NOT carry extra mags on their person. I also stand by the statement that I've never heard of a shooting where anyone had to reload or do a magazine exchange.
So once again, its a useful thing to know...and should always be part of your firearms training. However your muscle memory will take over if you do it a lot.
The best training you can do is to wear your regular street clothes (not 511 Tactical garb you might wear on the range), stand in front of a full length mirror and practice drawing from your everyday carry rig (after you insure the gun is unloaded of course...I use snap-caps)
You will learn more about your gear doing this than 10 times at the range. I consider myself a gear whore in the first degree....but it amazes me that most guys do not practice using their everyday carry stuff, they have a different setup on range day than what they carry.
Cops are the worst offenders of this. We will qualify with our tactical gear, and never practice using our everyday off-duty holsters.
Again, just my 2 cents.
If the gun jams in the middle of a shooting the only thing you will have time to do is a 'Tap-Rack-fire' (Tap the mag to make sure its seated, rack the slide and fire another round). You will not have time to try another magazine.
Fast magazine changes are important to know for IDPA, but not in the real world. Trust me on this, I've been a cop for a long time and 99% of the cops I know DO NOT carry extra mags when off duty. 99% of civilians who do concealed carry DO NOT carry extra mags on their person. I also stand by the statement that I've never heard of a shooting where anyone had to reload or do a magazine exchange.
So once again, its a useful thing to know...and should always be part of your firearms training. However your muscle memory will take over if you do it a lot.
The best training you can do is to wear your regular street clothes (not 511 Tactical garb you might wear on the range), stand in front of a full length mirror and practice drawing from your everyday carry rig (after you insure the gun is unloaded of course...I use snap-caps)
You will learn more about your gear doing this than 10 times at the range. I consider myself a gear whore in the first degree....but it amazes me that most guys do not practice using their everyday carry stuff, they have a different setup on range day than what they carry.
Cops are the worst offenders of this. We will qualify with our tactical gear, and never practice using our everyday off-duty holsters.
Again, just my 2 cents.
I can't even begin to talk about what horrible advice you are giving here.
1. Carry a spare mag. You may need it if the one in your gun takes a shit. You may need it if you engage a bad guy and he has friends. It is good tactical practice to tac reload after your threat is down so that your main source is gassed up again. Pat Rodgers told me a story about two coppers who engaged bad guys coming out of a shop and killed them. They were sent to the hospital to be evaluated (and to get away from the brass) and drove up upon another robbery in progress. Got out - click click click - guns were empty. Oops. Luckily, said skells ran off and didn't engage.
2. Just because "cops don't do it" does not, in any way, make things right. 99% of cops don't practice AT ALL aside from what their agency makes them do. They may carry a gun because their jobs require them to, but they are not gunfighters. Hell, most cops don't carry hand cuffs off duty, and that is THE most basic LE tool we possess.
3. I think the cops at the Bank of America shooting, the off duty guy at the Mall of the Americas Shooting, the cops who engaged the two "sovereign citizen" murderers at the walmart and several prolonged fire fights would disagree about your assessment of 'not needing to know how to reload'. Seriously? That is a basic function of running a gun, and you don't think it's important? I have, in multiple force on force training sessions, won an engagement because I reloaded before the "bad guy" could. Seriously?????
Doc
1/29/2012 9:10:59 PM
Originally Posted By D-RAS03:
If that happened to me in public I have no idea what I would do.
Originally Posted By Gibsonguy30:
Funny you should mention that...I was eating lunch one day at a BBQ joint in Georgia. The floor plate of my Sig P226 mag came off some how and launched 15 rounds of 9mm Federal Hydro-shok all over the floor. Thats what you call an awkward moment!
Funny you should mention that...I was eating lunch one day at a BBQ joint in Georgia. The floor plate of my Sig P226 mag came off some how and launched 15 rounds of 9mm Federal Hydro-shok all over the floor. Thats what you call an awkward moment!
If that happened to me in public I have no idea what I would do.
I would be embarrased as hell and pick them up......................................ammo is expensive!!!!!
1/29/2012 9:25:34 PM
Originally Posted By Furyataurus:
I would be embarrased as hell and pick them up......................................ammo is expensive!!!!!
Originally Posted By D-RAS03:
If that happened to me in public I have no idea what I would do.
Originally Posted By Gibsonguy30:
Funny you should mention that...I was eating lunch one day at a BBQ joint in Georgia. The floor plate of my Sig P226 mag came off some how and launched 15 rounds of 9mm Federal Hydro-shok all over the floor. Thats what you call an awkward moment!
Funny you should mention that...I was eating lunch one day at a BBQ joint in Georgia. The floor plate of my Sig P226 mag came off some how and launched 15 rounds of 9mm Federal Hydro-shok all over the floor. Thats what you call an awkward moment!
If that happened to me in public I have no idea what I would do.
I would be embarrased as hell and pick them up......................................ammo is expensive!!!!!
True. Gold dots are not cheap. But the looks you would get would be priceless.
1/29/2012 10:45:35 PM
Originally Posted By DoctorNo:
I can't even begin to talk about what horrible advice you are giving here.
1. Carry a spare mag. You may need it if the one in your gun takes a shit. You may need it if you engage a bad guy and he has friends. It is good tactical practice to tac reload after your threat is down so that your main source is gassed up again. Pat Rodgers told me a story about two coppers who engaged bad guys coming out of a shop and killed them. They were sent to the hospital to be evaluated (and to get away from the brass) and drove up upon another robbery in progress. Got out - click click click - guns were empty. Oops. Luckily, said skells ran off and didn't engage.
2. Just because "cops don't do it" does not, in any way, make things right. 99% of cops don't practice AT ALL aside from what their agency makes them do. They may carry a gun because their jobs require them to, but they are not gunfighters. Hell, most cops don't carry hand cuffs off duty, and that is THE most basic LE tool we possess.
3. I think the cops at the Bank of America shooting, the off duty guy at the Mall of the Americas Shooting, the cops who engaged the two "sovereign citizen" murderers at the walmart and several prolonged fire fights would disagree about your assessment of 'not needing to know how to reload'. Seriously? That is a basic function of running a gun, and you don't think it's important? I have, in multiple force on force training sessions, won an engagement because I reloaded before the "bad guy" could. Seriously?????
Doc
Originally Posted By Gibsonguy30:
If the gun jams in the middle of a shooting the only thing you will have time to do is a 'Tap-Rack-fire' (Tap the mag to make sure its seated, rack the slide and fire another round). You will not have time to try another magazine.
Fast magazine changes are important to know for IDPA, but not in the real world. Trust me on this, I've been a cop for a long time and 99% of the cops I know DO NOT carry extra mags when off duty. 99% of civilians who do concealed carry DO NOT carry extra mags on their person. I also stand by the statement that I've never heard of a shooting where anyone had to reload or do a magazine exchange.
So once again, its a useful thing to know...and should always be part of your firearms training. However your muscle memory will take over if you do it a lot.
The best training you can do is to wear your regular street clothes (not 511 Tactical garb you might wear on the range), stand in front of a full length mirror and practice drawing from your everyday carry rig (after you insure the gun is unloaded of course...I use snap-caps)
You will learn more about your gear doing this than 10 times at the range. I consider myself a gear whore in the first degree....but it amazes me that most guys do not practice using their everyday carry stuff, they have a different setup on range day than what they carry.
Cops are the worst offenders of this. We will qualify with our tactical gear, and never practice using our everyday off-duty holsters.
Again, just my 2 cents.
If the gun jams in the middle of a shooting the only thing you will have time to do is a 'Tap-Rack-fire' (Tap the mag to make sure its seated, rack the slide and fire another round). You will not have time to try another magazine.
Fast magazine changes are important to know for IDPA, but not in the real world. Trust me on this, I've been a cop for a long time and 99% of the cops I know DO NOT carry extra mags when off duty. 99% of civilians who do concealed carry DO NOT carry extra mags on their person. I also stand by the statement that I've never heard of a shooting where anyone had to reload or do a magazine exchange.
So once again, its a useful thing to know...and should always be part of your firearms training. However your muscle memory will take over if you do it a lot.
The best training you can do is to wear your regular street clothes (not 511 Tactical garb you might wear on the range), stand in front of a full length mirror and practice drawing from your everyday carry rig (after you insure the gun is unloaded of course...I use snap-caps)
You will learn more about your gear doing this than 10 times at the range. I consider myself a gear whore in the first degree....but it amazes me that most guys do not practice using their everyday carry stuff, they have a different setup on range day than what they carry.
Cops are the worst offenders of this. We will qualify with our tactical gear, and never practice using our everyday off-duty holsters.
Again, just my 2 cents.
I can't even begin to talk about what horrible advice you are giving here.
1. Carry a spare mag. You may need it if the one in your gun takes a shit. You may need it if you engage a bad guy and he has friends. It is good tactical practice to tac reload after your threat is down so that your main source is gassed up again. Pat Rodgers told me a story about two coppers who engaged bad guys coming out of a shop and killed them. They were sent to the hospital to be evaluated (and to get away from the brass) and drove up upon another robbery in progress. Got out - click click click - guns were empty. Oops. Luckily, said skells ran off and didn't engage.
2. Just because "cops don't do it" does not, in any way, make things right. 99% of cops don't practice AT ALL aside from what their agency makes them do. They may carry a gun because their jobs require them to, but they are not gunfighters. Hell, most cops don't carry hand cuffs off duty, and that is THE most basic LE tool we possess.
3. I think the cops at the Bank of America shooting, the off duty guy at the Mall of the Americas Shooting, the cops who engaged the two "sovereign citizen" murderers at the walmart and several prolonged fire fights would disagree about your assessment of 'not needing to know how to reload'. Seriously? That is a basic function of running a gun, and you don't think it's important? I have, in multiple force on force training sessions, won an engagement because I reloaded before the "bad guy" could. Seriously?????
Doc
We are in total agreement - I'm just stating that its pointless to train for speed re-loads if you don't bother carrying an extra mag (or two). I am only giving advice to the majority of folks that do concealed carry and don't carry them. My advice to them would be train to come out of the holster faster, and to be more accurate. You are correct, Cops usually are not the best example for off-duty carry.
Or, you could just do as I do and carry a backup/hideout gun
1/29/2012 11:30:38 PM
Originally Posted By Gibsonguy30:
We are in total agreement - I'm just stating that its pointless to train for speed re-loads if you don't bother carrying an extra mag (or two). I am only giving advice to the majority of folks that do concealed carry and don't carry them. My advice to them would be train to come out of the holster faster, and to be more accurate. You are correct, Cops usually are not the best example for off-duty carry.
Or, you could just do as I do and carry a backup/hideout gun
We are in total agreement - I'm just stating that its pointless to train for speed re-loads if you don't bother carrying an extra mag (or two). I am only giving advice to the majority of folks that do concealed carry and don't carry them. My advice to them would be train to come out of the holster faster, and to be more accurate. You are correct, Cops usually are not the best example for off-duty carry.
Or, you could just do as I do and carry a backup/hideout gun
Ahh, okay.... I would rather advise someone to practice them and build confidence with the technique. Then if they realize they are proficient at it and enjoy that ... they will have practiced/trained enough to realize that carrying a spare is a must.
1/30/2012 12:02:22 AM
Originally Posted By Gibsonguy30:
We are in total agreement - I'm just stating that its pointless to train for speed re-loads if you don't bother carrying an extra mag (or two). I am only giving advice to the majority of folks that do concealed carry and don't carry them. My advice to them would be train to come out of the holster faster, and to be more accurate. You are correct, Cops usually are not the best example for off-duty carry.
Or, you could just do as I do and carry a backup/hideout gun
Originally Posted By DoctorNo:
I can't even begin to talk about what horrible advice you are giving here.
1. Carry a spare mag. You may need it if the one in your gun takes a shit. You may need it if you engage a bad guy and he has friends. It is good tactical practice to tac reload after your threat is down so that your main source is gassed up again. Pat Rodgers told me a story about two coppers who engaged bad guys coming out of a shop and killed them. They were sent to the hospital to be evaluated (and to get away from the brass) and drove up upon another robbery in progress. Got out - click click click - guns were empty. Oops. Luckily, said skells ran off and didn't engage.
2. Just because "cops don't do it" does not, in any way, make things right. 99% of cops don't practice AT ALL aside from what their agency makes them do. They may carry a gun because their jobs require them to, but they are not gunfighters. Hell, most cops don't carry hand cuffs off duty, and that is THE most basic LE tool we possess.
3. I think the cops at the Bank of America shooting, the off duty guy at the Mall of the Americas Shooting, the cops who engaged the two "sovereign citizen" murderers at the walmart and several prolonged fire fights would disagree about your assessment of 'not needing to know how to reload'. Seriously? That is a basic function of running a gun, and you don't think it's important? I have, in multiple force on force training sessions, won an engagement because I reloaded before the "bad guy" could. Seriously?????
Doc
Originally Posted By Gibsonguy30:
If the gun jams in the middle of a shooting the only thing you will have time to do is a 'Tap-Rack-fire' (Tap the mag to make sure its seated, rack the slide and fire another round). You will not have time to try another magazine.
Fast magazine changes are important to know for IDPA, but not in the real world. Trust me on this, I've been a cop for a long time and 99% of the cops I know DO NOT carry extra mags when off duty. 99% of civilians who do concealed carry DO NOT carry extra mags on their person. I also stand by the statement that I've never heard of a shooting where anyone had to reload or do a magazine exchange.
So once again, its a useful thing to know...and should always be part of your firearms training. However your muscle memory will take over if you do it a lot.
The best training you can do is to wear your regular street clothes (not 511 Tactical garb you might wear on the range), stand in front of a full length mirror and practice drawing from your everyday carry rig (after you insure the gun is unloaded of course...I use snap-caps)
You will learn more about your gear doing this than 10 times at the range. I consider myself a gear whore in the first degree....but it amazes me that most guys do not practice using their everyday carry stuff, they have a different setup on range day than what they carry.
Cops are the worst offenders of this. We will qualify with our tactical gear, and never practice using our everyday off-duty holsters.
Again, just my 2 cents.
If the gun jams in the middle of a shooting the only thing you will have time to do is a 'Tap-Rack-fire' (Tap the mag to make sure its seated, rack the slide and fire another round). You will not have time to try another magazine.
Fast magazine changes are important to know for IDPA, but not in the real world. Trust me on this, I've been a cop for a long time and 99% of the cops I know DO NOT carry extra mags when off duty. 99% of civilians who do concealed carry DO NOT carry extra mags on their person. I also stand by the statement that I've never heard of a shooting where anyone had to reload or do a magazine exchange.
So once again, its a useful thing to know...and should always be part of your firearms training. However your muscle memory will take over if you do it a lot.
The best training you can do is to wear your regular street clothes (not 511 Tactical garb you might wear on the range), stand in front of a full length mirror and practice drawing from your everyday carry rig (after you insure the gun is unloaded of course...I use snap-caps)
You will learn more about your gear doing this than 10 times at the range. I consider myself a gear whore in the first degree....but it amazes me that most guys do not practice using their everyday carry stuff, they have a different setup on range day than what they carry.
Cops are the worst offenders of this. We will qualify with our tactical gear, and never practice using our everyday off-duty holsters.
Again, just my 2 cents.
I can't even begin to talk about what horrible advice you are giving here.
1. Carry a spare mag. You may need it if the one in your gun takes a shit. You may need it if you engage a bad guy and he has friends. It is good tactical practice to tac reload after your threat is down so that your main source is gassed up again. Pat Rodgers told me a story about two coppers who engaged bad guys coming out of a shop and killed them. They were sent to the hospital to be evaluated (and to get away from the brass) and drove up upon another robbery in progress. Got out - click click click - guns were empty. Oops. Luckily, said skells ran off and didn't engage.
2. Just because "cops don't do it" does not, in any way, make things right. 99% of cops don't practice AT ALL aside from what their agency makes them do. They may carry a gun because their jobs require them to, but they are not gunfighters. Hell, most cops don't carry hand cuffs off duty, and that is THE most basic LE tool we possess.
3. I think the cops at the Bank of America shooting, the off duty guy at the Mall of the Americas Shooting, the cops who engaged the two "sovereign citizen" murderers at the walmart and several prolonged fire fights would disagree about your assessment of 'not needing to know how to reload'. Seriously? That is a basic function of running a gun, and you don't think it's important? I have, in multiple force on force training sessions, won an engagement because I reloaded before the "bad guy" could. Seriously?????
Doc
We are in total agreement - I'm just stating that its pointless to train for speed re-loads if you don't bother carrying an extra mag (or two). I am only giving advice to the majority of folks that do concealed carry and don't carry them. My advice to them would be train to come out of the holster faster, and to be more accurate. You are correct, Cops usually are not the best example for off-duty carry.
Or, you could just do as I do and carry a backup/hideout gun
I carry one may in the gun and two on my weak side. I would rather be prepared.
2/5/2012 6:46:09 PM
3-5k rounds should be about right. Its not bad at all once you start running the gun on a regular basis. Once you learn it I found its like riding a bike. Even if you step away from it, and then come back, it comes back very quickly once you have mastered it. I can run between Glock's and Hk's and never miss a beat going between the two. Put the reps in and it will pay off in the long run.
2/6/2012 3:21:03 PM
Originally Posted By D-RAS03:
I use my middle finger. I find it a lot easier than the traditional push button release.
Originally Posted By GrizzlyAdams:
So do most use the trigger finger to release the mag? Or thumb?
So do most use the trigger finger to release the mag? Or thumb?
I use my middle finger. I find it a lot easier than the traditional push button release.
This, it is so fast. I love it. It did take me about a day of messing with it non stop, but I got it.....and like it better. It is kinda like driving stick, once you master it, you like it better than auto.
