Archived Posts » 59,789,155
Kahr trigger mods.... anyone do anything to change your trigger
3/9/2011 7:32:34 PM
I used to have a Kahr a couple years ago and really liked it.... accept for the double action trigger. I think double action triggers need to be completely done away with and never be heard from again.... but that is just my opinion. Is there anyway to change the double action trigger to a "strikerfire" trigger or even smooth out the stock trigger and shorten the reset?
3/9/2011 8:17:23 PM
The Trigger is ...........THE ONLY SAFETY
I haven't messed with mine
I haven't messed with mine
3/9/2011 9:01:07 PM
Check out this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCzn3uYwuPc, skip to 8:50 if you don't want to watch the whole thing. Basically he tells why the trigger pull and reset are so long, and based on the gun there is no real way to shorten it.
3/9/2011 10:12:34 PM
Thanks guys.... pretty much made up my mind after watching that video that I won't be purchasing another Kahr. Oh well. Again, thanks for the information.
3/10/2011 7:14:00 PM
that trigger does suck, IMO. Way too long. Most say the trigger is great, not for me
3/13/2011 12:45:48 PM
the pull itself is ok for me. I just despise the reset. almost all the way back out.
3/13/2011 1:06:43 PM
Originally Posted By nelybarg:
the pull itself is ok for me. I just despise the reset. almost all the way back out.
the pull itself is ok for me. I just despise the reset. almost all the way back out.
Same here.
3/13/2011 8:39:59 PM
The original concept of the Kahr was to be a micro-size full power 9mm pistol that would be 100% safe to carry, like a revolver.
The trigger was designed to feel like a tuned S&W revolver trigger. Since most police at the time were still armed with the "K" or "L" frame S&W revolver, this was felt to be more familiar to them.
For those reasons, the Kahr trigger has a long pull and a long reset....just like a DA revolver trigger.
If you're used to short action automatics like the 1911 or Glock type trigger and haven't spent much time with a DA revolver, the Kahr is going to feel weird until you get used to it.
Some people complain that they can't pick up a Kahr right out of the box and shoot as tight of groups as they can with a 1911 or Glock type gun.
With the Kahr you have to "learn" the trigger, and you have to accept that the Kahr is a pure "people shooter", not a target gun or a range toy.
As such the Kahr was specifically designed to be self defense gun to be used to shoot someone out of your face, not be a service pistol.
Since the early days, Kahr has upgraded the trigger in most models to the "Elite" trigger which has a shorter pull.
However, the design was intended to be what it is. No alterations are possible.
The trigger was designed to feel like a tuned S&W revolver trigger. Since most police at the time were still armed with the "K" or "L" frame S&W revolver, this was felt to be more familiar to them.
For those reasons, the Kahr trigger has a long pull and a long reset....just like a DA revolver trigger.
If you're used to short action automatics like the 1911 or Glock type trigger and haven't spent much time with a DA revolver, the Kahr is going to feel weird until you get used to it.
Some people complain that they can't pick up a Kahr right out of the box and shoot as tight of groups as they can with a 1911 or Glock type gun.
With the Kahr you have to "learn" the trigger, and you have to accept that the Kahr is a pure "people shooter", not a target gun or a range toy.
As such the Kahr was specifically designed to be self defense gun to be used to shoot someone out of your face, not be a service pistol.
Since the early days, Kahr has upgraded the trigger in most models to the "Elite" trigger which has a shorter pull.
However, the design was intended to be what it is. No alterations are possible.
3/14/2011 2:28:48 AM
Originally Posted By dfariswheel:
The original concept of the Kahr was to be a micro-size full power 9mm pistol that would be 100% safe to carry, like a revolver.
The trigger was designed to feel like a tuned S&W revolver trigger. Since most police at the time were still armed with the "K" or "L" frame S&W revolver, this was felt to be more familiar to them.
For those reasons, the Kahr trigger has a long pull and a long reset....just like a DA revolver trigger.
If you're used to short action automatics like the 1911 or Glock type trigger and haven't spent much time with a DA revolver, the Kahr is going to feel weird until you get used to it.
Some people complain that they can't pick up a Kahr right out of the box and shoot as tight of groups as they can with a 1911 or Glock type gun.
With the Kahr you have to "learn" the trigger, and you have to accept that the Kahr is a pure "people shooter", not a target gun or a range toy.
As such the Kahr was specifically designed to be self defense gun to be used to shoot someone out of your face, not be a service pistol.
Since the early days, Kahr has upgraded the trigger in most models to the "Elite" trigger which has a shorter pull.
However, the design was intended to be what it is. No alterations are possible.
The original concept of the Kahr was to be a micro-size full power 9mm pistol that would be 100% safe to carry, like a revolver.
The trigger was designed to feel like a tuned S&W revolver trigger. Since most police at the time were still armed with the "K" or "L" frame S&W revolver, this was felt to be more familiar to them.
For those reasons, the Kahr trigger has a long pull and a long reset....just like a DA revolver trigger.
If you're used to short action automatics like the 1911 or Glock type trigger and haven't spent much time with a DA revolver, the Kahr is going to feel weird until you get used to it.
Some people complain that they can't pick up a Kahr right out of the box and shoot as tight of groups as they can with a 1911 or Glock type gun.
With the Kahr you have to "learn" the trigger, and you have to accept that the Kahr is a pure "people shooter", not a target gun or a range toy.
As such the Kahr was specifically designed to be self defense gun to be used to shoot someone out of your face, not be a service pistol.
Since the early days, Kahr has upgraded the trigger in most models to the "Elite" trigger which has a shorter pull.
However, the design was intended to be what it is. No alterations are possible.
Sums it up nicely.
3/15/2011 4:32:11 PM
Originally Posted By Bklyn_Irish:
Sums it up nicely.
Originally Posted By dfariswheel:
The original concept of the Kahr was to be a micro-size full power 9mm pistol that would be 100% safe to carry, like a revolver.
The trigger was designed to feel like a tuned S&W revolver trigger. Since most police at the time were still armed with the "K" or "L" frame S&W revolver, this was felt to be more familiar to them.
For those reasons, the Kahr trigger has a long pull and a long reset....just like a DA revolver trigger.
If you're used to short action automatics like the 1911 or Glock type trigger and haven't spent much time with a DA revolver, the Kahr is going to feel weird until you get used to it.
Some people complain that they can't pick up a Kahr right out of the box and shoot as tight of groups as they can with a 1911 or Glock type gun.
With the Kahr you have to "learn" the trigger, and you have to accept that the Kahr is a pure "people shooter", not a target gun or a range toy.
As such the Kahr was specifically designed to be self defense gun to be used to shoot someone out of your face, not be a service pistol.
Since the early days, Kahr has upgraded the trigger in most models to the "Elite" trigger which has a shorter pull.
However, the design was intended to be what it is. No alterations are possible.
The original concept of the Kahr was to be a micro-size full power 9mm pistol that would be 100% safe to carry, like a revolver.
The trigger was designed to feel like a tuned S&W revolver trigger. Since most police at the time were still armed with the "K" or "L" frame S&W revolver, this was felt to be more familiar to them.
For those reasons, the Kahr trigger has a long pull and a long reset....just like a DA revolver trigger.
If you're used to short action automatics like the 1911 or Glock type trigger and haven't spent much time with a DA revolver, the Kahr is going to feel weird until you get used to it.
Some people complain that they can't pick up a Kahr right out of the box and shoot as tight of groups as they can with a 1911 or Glock type gun.
With the Kahr you have to "learn" the trigger, and you have to accept that the Kahr is a pure "people shooter", not a target gun or a range toy.
As such the Kahr was specifically designed to be self defense gun to be used to shoot someone out of your face, not be a service pistol.
Since the early days, Kahr has upgraded the trigger in most models to the "Elite" trigger which has a shorter pull.
However, the design was intended to be what it is. No alterations are possible.
Sums it up nicely.
The bold print... I don't think I have ever said this before on a forum. That being said and I don't mean to offend you, so accept my apology before hand. That's about the most bullsh$t statement I have ever seen posted before. I have never in my life seen a statement of a pure people shooter weapon ever posted before. If you are a trained shooter and can't pick up a weapon and shoot and hit a target then something is wrong with the weapon. I have nothing against Kahrs, but to insinuate that 1911s , Glocks or any other handgun for that matter is inferior to Kahrs because they are considered a range toy or just a target gun and are designed as service pistols (that's a good one too)is out there. Kahr makes a good defensive weapon. But the one complaint that I have seen over and over through the years is the trigger pull sucks and how can it be made better. If you like the weapon then learn to deal with it. But your statement has just topped all I have ever heard from someone defending a good weapon with a trigger pull that some people wish were better and they could change. I have owned 3 Kahrs and I still have a CW9, 1911 and Glocks in my arsenal and to me the trigger pull does need improvement and I wish I could change it some, doesn't mean it's still not a good weapon though. LOL Kahr is a pure "people shooter/ used to shoot someone out of your face
3/15/2011 7:59:10 PM
You read a lot into that, too bad you misunderstood most of it.
I never said the Kahr is superior to the 1911 or Glock, quite the contrary. The 1911, Glock, and other service size guns are actually easier to use than the tiny Kahr.
The Kahr was designed to be a personal defense gun, full powered, but in as small a package as possible.
Of course it's not going to be as easy to hit a smaller target as with a larger gun with a shorter trigger.
That's what I meant about the Kahr being a people shooter. If you want to have a service type defense pistol, or a target gun, or a range toy, you'd pick a larger, easier to use gun with a trigger that allows a higher degree of accuracy.
The Kahr is a more purpose-built gun: "People shooter" simply means the Kahr was intended for self-defense at very close range and not much else. If you want to plink with it, you can, but that's not the designed intent of the Kahr design.
If you're at risk of having to engage an attacker at longer ranges, a smart person carries a larger gun that's easier to shoot at longer ranges.
If you''re most likely to to be in a situation where someone is at "in your face" range, that's exactly what he Kahr was designed for.
As for wanting a different trigger, that's like buying a S&W "L" frame revolver and wanting a 1911 type trigger in it. That might be nice, but that's not how the "L" frame was designed and it can't be changed. If you want a 1911 or Glock type trigger, you don't buy an "L" frame and complain that you'd like to change it.
The Kahr trigger is what it is. You have the customer options of living with it or just not buying it.
I never said the Kahr is superior to the 1911 or Glock, quite the contrary. The 1911, Glock, and other service size guns are actually easier to use than the tiny Kahr.
The Kahr was designed to be a personal defense gun, full powered, but in as small a package as possible.
Of course it's not going to be as easy to hit a smaller target as with a larger gun with a shorter trigger.
That's what I meant about the Kahr being a people shooter. If you want to have a service type defense pistol, or a target gun, or a range toy, you'd pick a larger, easier to use gun with a trigger that allows a higher degree of accuracy.
The Kahr is a more purpose-built gun: "People shooter" simply means the Kahr was intended for self-defense at very close range and not much else. If you want to plink with it, you can, but that's not the designed intent of the Kahr design.
If you're at risk of having to engage an attacker at longer ranges, a smart person carries a larger gun that's easier to shoot at longer ranges.
If you''re most likely to to be in a situation where someone is at "in your face" range, that's exactly what he Kahr was designed for.
As for wanting a different trigger, that's like buying a S&W "L" frame revolver and wanting a 1911 type trigger in it. That might be nice, but that's not how the "L" frame was designed and it can't be changed. If you want a 1911 or Glock type trigger, you don't buy an "L" frame and complain that you'd like to change it.
The Kahr trigger is what it is. You have the customer options of living with it or just not buying it.
3/15/2011 9:07:14 PM
Well I did apologize up front 
3/16/2011 3:44:12 PM
"Take that" smack, slap.
3/18/2011 10:39:35 AM
you got me 
that was good and my first laugh for today. thank you 
that was good and my first laugh for today. thank you 3/30/2011 2:29:14 PM
I had thought the elite trigger group was able to be separately bought and dropped in to a CW, not true?
-Sefus
-Sefus
3/30/2011 4:02:02 PM
As far as I know, the Elite trigger can be installed in any Kahr pistol.
You'd need to contact Kahr to find out for sure, and I'd strongly recommend having them install it.
You'd need to contact Kahr to find out for sure, and I'd strongly recommend having them install it.
4/20/2011 1:55:08 AM
I was able to get a slightly shorter reset out of my CW9 but wasnt much ,maybe a 1/8" I used a thin plastic shim glued to the underside of the striker cam on the frame.But it created some slop on intial pull.....My complaint is the striker hits are sometimes light, and with S&B i get quite a few misfires. Im gettin ready to send mine in as it has issues with severe offset primer strikes
GMan
GMan
6/5/2011 7:42:39 PM
Originally Posted By Bklyn_Irish:
Same here.
Originally Posted By nelybarg:
the pull itself is ok for me. I just despise the reset. almost all the way back out.
the pull itself is ok for me. I just despise the reset. almost all the way back out.
Same here.
I have considered selling my PM9 several times just because of trigger reset. There has got to be a way to shorten the reset.
6/7/2011 4:01:27 PM
Originally Posted By dfariswheel:
As far as I know, the Elite trigger can be installed in any Kahr pistol.
You'd need to contact Kahr to find out for sure, and I'd strongly recommend having them install it.
As far as I know, the Elite trigger can be installed in any Kahr pistol.
You'd need to contact Kahr to find out for sure, and I'd strongly recommend having them install it.
Do all of the Kahr's have the Elite trigger now or is it an upgrade the factory has to do after you purchase the pistol? If it is a factory upgrade do you think it's worth it and how do I go about getting one?
I really need to find a way to help this trigger pull. I have had the pistol for 2 years now and I love the way it feels and carries but I still cannot get use to the trigger. I do practice with it and I still have trouble shooting it accurately, I'm so bad with it that I am starting to not feel comfortable packing it. I leave the range frustrated each time I take it. I even tried to get some revolver experts at the range to help me out and I still lack the skills to shoot it properly, they seem to like the Kahr trigger, saying how smooth it is.
6/7/2011 7:32:38 PM
As far as I know, Kahr now uses the Elite trigger in everything except the "budget" models.
Note that the Elite trigger is just a little shorter than the old type trigger, which they still offer on the K9 NYPD model.
Since the trigger isn't all that different, you may be disappointed in it too.
To find out if your gun already has an Elite trigger, contact Kahr. They'll need the serial number.
Also talk to them about installing an Elite trigger in your gun if it doesn't have one.
Check their web site for details.
Note that the Elite trigger is just a little shorter than the old type trigger, which they still offer on the K9 NYPD model.
Since the trigger isn't all that different, you may be disappointed in it too.
To find out if your gun already has an Elite trigger, contact Kahr. They'll need the serial number.
Also talk to them about installing an Elite trigger in your gun if it doesn't have one.
Check their web site for details.
6/27/2011 4:33:19 PM
Originally Posted By DeathMetal:
Do all of the Kahr's have the Elite trigger now or is it an upgrade the factory has to do after you purchase the pistol? If it is a factory upgrade do you think it's worth it and how do I go about getting one?
I really need to find a way to help this trigger pull. I have had the pistol for 2 years now and I love the way it feels and carries but I still cannot get use to the trigger. I do practice with it and I still have trouble shooting it accurately, I'm so bad with it that I am starting to not feel comfortable packing it. I leave the range frustrated each time I take it. I even tried to get some revolver experts at the range to help me out and I still lack the skills to shoot it properly, they seem to like the Kahr trigger, saying how smooth it is.
Originally Posted By dfariswheel:
As far as I know, the Elite trigger can be installed in any Kahr pistol.
You'd need to contact Kahr to find out for sure, and I'd strongly recommend having them install it.
As far as I know, the Elite trigger can be installed in any Kahr pistol.
You'd need to contact Kahr to find out for sure, and I'd strongly recommend having them install it.
Do all of the Kahr's have the Elite trigger now or is it an upgrade the factory has to do after you purchase the pistol? If it is a factory upgrade do you think it's worth it and how do I go about getting one?
I really need to find a way to help this trigger pull. I have had the pistol for 2 years now and I love the way it feels and carries but I still cannot get use to the trigger. I do practice with it and I still have trouble shooting it accurately, I'm so bad with it that I am starting to not feel comfortable packing it. I leave the range frustrated each time I take it. I even tried to get some revolver experts at the range to help me out and I still lack the skills to shoot it properly, they seem to like the Kahr trigger, saying how smooth it is.
The reset is the same on both triggers,both triggers break at the same weight,If the Elite trigger offered a shorter reset my K9 would be in the mail right now.Personally I would not pay the money to switch from a NYPD to a Elite due to the fact that it's really not that different.
7/11/2011 4:48:20 PM
I've owned a K9 and CW9, both utterly reliable and eminently packable.
When I realized-and then realized again, with the CW-that I could never make 25 yard headshots with the Kahr quickly, both got traded off.
Not that I anticipate having to make headshots at 25 yards under pressure of time very often, but there are plenty of guns I can do it with-enough that I couldn't justify owning one I couldn't shoot to that level.
The trigger is a fantastic DA trigger; to a SA finger, it's a whole new world, and not a good one.
Larry
When I realized-and then realized again, with the CW-that I could never make 25 yard headshots with the Kahr quickly, both got traded off.
Not that I anticipate having to make headshots at 25 yards under pressure of time very often, but there are plenty of guns I can do it with-enough that I couldn't justify owning one I couldn't shoot to that level.
The trigger is a fantastic DA trigger; to a SA finger, it's a whole new world, and not a good one.
Larry
7/13/2011 11:32:05 AM
They feel like a lightened, and tuned S&W Double Action revolver trigger.
That is a good and a bad thing.
The reality is that I, and probably a lot of others, want a single-stack Glock 19. The Kahrs are 80% of the way there, but not where it counts.
That is a good and a bad thing.
The reality is that I, and probably a lot of others, want a single-stack Glock 19. The Kahrs are 80% of the way there, but not where it counts.
7/14/2011 12:44:00 AM
Originally Posted By DanTSX:
They feel like a lightened, and tuned S&W Double Action revolver trigger.
That is a good and a bad thing.
The reality is that I, and probably a lot of others, want a single-stack Glock 19. The Kahrs are 80% of the way there, but not where it counts.
They feel like a lightened, and tuned S&W Double Action revolver trigger.
That is a good and a bad thing.
The reality is that I, and probably a lot of others, want a single-stack Glock 19. The Kahrs are 80% of the way there, but not where it counts.
My pal Dan is correct here. Everything about the Kahr is great except for the trigger. For those transitioning from a S&W revolver, I'm sure it's an easy transition and a familiar feeling trigger, but for those who shoot Glocks... in your hand it feels like the long-sought-after single stack G26 (that doesn't exist) until you pull the trigger and try to reset it for the next shot. I bought a PM9 a few months ago and have been playing around with it to see if I can make it work.
7/14/2011 12:51:39 PM
I swapped out the NY trigger for the Elite in my K9 for about 40 bucks in parts just to see if it makes that much of a difference guess I have to eat my words,It's much better.I know 99% of the new Kahrs come with the Elite trigger anyway but at least on the trigger pull its noticeably different,the reset could still be a lot shorter IMO.Oh well,now I know.
If you do decide to swap a older NY trigger to the Elite I have a few tips that might make it a bit easier.First,you need a press (arbor,hydraulic,ect)and a section of 2X4 to get the trigger pin out,a hammer and punch won't work.I also found that tool steel pins from the hardware store (3/32'')work way better than pin punches because you can get various lengths and they're hell for stout.I had a hell of a time trying to keep the trigger spacer,spring and trigger bar positioned correctly when assembling the new trigger components so I held everything in place with modeling clay.I packed the spring and the spacer the same way you would a timken bearing.
Once I had everything in place,I worked a 3/32'' cheater pin through the pivot hole (it will be loose but close enough for a cheater pin)and held that in place with more clay.I was then able to press the pin back in on the press.
Cleaning the clay out of everything is a bit time consuming,but it does keep things in place.It's certainly a bit more involved than working on a glock,but if you have the tools and patience it's doable.I looked all over the net for info on doing this and didn't find much outside of people saying "don't do it yourself",so I thought I'd share my findings.
If you do decide to swap a older NY trigger to the Elite I have a few tips that might make it a bit easier.First,you need a press (arbor,hydraulic,ect)and a section of 2X4 to get the trigger pin out,a hammer and punch won't work.I also found that tool steel pins from the hardware store (3/32'')work way better than pin punches because you can get various lengths and they're hell for stout.I had a hell of a time trying to keep the trigger spacer,spring and trigger bar positioned correctly when assembling the new trigger components so I held everything in place with modeling clay.I packed the spring and the spacer the same way you would a timken bearing.
Once I had everything in place,I worked a 3/32'' cheater pin through the pivot hole (it will be loose but close enough for a cheater pin)and held that in place with more clay.I was then able to press the pin back in on the press.
Cleaning the clay out of everything is a bit time consuming,but it does keep things in place.It's certainly a bit more involved than working on a glock,but if you have the tools and patience it's doable.I looked all over the net for info on doing this and didn't find much outside of people saying "don't do it yourself",so I thought I'd share my findings.
7/14/2011 4:56:25 PM
My early stainless steel K9 did not have a trigger pin nearly that tight.
It came out easily with a punch and light hammer.
Different guns are ....... different.
It came out easily with a punch and light hammer.
Different guns are ....... different.
7/14/2011 6:17:14 PM
Originally Posted By dfariswheel:
My early stainless steel K9 did not have a trigger pin nearly that tight.
It came out easily with a punch and light hammer.
Different guns are ....... different.
My early stainless steel K9 did not have a trigger pin nearly that tight.
It came out easily with a punch and light hammer.
Different guns are ....... different.
I'm not a pro by any stretch,but that sucker was tight.I tried the punch and hammer method for a few minutes before I was running to the press.I've only done 1,so I'm sure that you're right,pretty much my luck I guess.
7/14/2011 7:46:28 PM
For it's intended purpose, the kahr is a fine tool. I own two, a CW9 and an Elite. the elite is the GF range toy because it is heavier and the weight takes some of the 9mm snap out of shooting it [hey, she's a small woman] the CW9 is the one that has only had the 250 round breakin and now stays loaded... The triggers are different, but my theory on the CW9's trigger is that if I am pointing it and noticing the trigger my mind isn't on task and I need to stop...
8/13/2011 1:38:03 PM
The best thing about Kahrs is their quality and concealability (the micro guns are a good 1" shorter in length and width than anything else in 9 mm or larger –– about the size of a Colt Mustang but in a more effective calibre).
The trigger takes some getting used to, and it's actually striker fired rather than true DAO (which would be better because you could strike the primer of a dud cartridge multiple times to get it to fire).
Ideally (for me anyway), Kahrs should make a version in a true DA/SA configuration –– safety and speed with the initial DA pull and speed and accuracy with follow up SA pulls.
You look at other quality DA/SA subcompacts out there (CZ, Sig, Beretta, old S&Ws, etc.) and they are all significantly larger than a Kahr.
Is there some technical obstacle to making a DA/SA pistol as small as a Kahr micro?
Even if a DA/SA Kahr was a little longer and/wider than the striker fired guns, I would buy one. Personally, the PM/MK series could stand a little more tang anyway IMO.
The trigger takes some getting used to, and it's actually striker fired rather than true DAO (which would be better because you could strike the primer of a dud cartridge multiple times to get it to fire).
Ideally (for me anyway), Kahrs should make a version in a true DA/SA configuration –– safety and speed with the initial DA pull and speed and accuracy with follow up SA pulls.
You look at other quality DA/SA subcompacts out there (CZ, Sig, Beretta, old S&Ws, etc.) and they are all significantly larger than a Kahr.
Is there some technical obstacle to making a DA/SA pistol as small as a Kahr micro?
Even if a DA/SA Kahr was a little longer and/wider than the striker fired guns, I would buy one. Personally, the PM/MK series could stand a little more tang anyway IMO.
8/13/2011 3:48:49 PM
DA/SA just isn't Kahr's "thing".
There are plenty of those designs around and Kahr would be just another gun in that class.
Kahr was one of, if not the first of, the DA-only Micro guns and it's at the top of the class.
One problem with getting a DA/SA trigger in that small a gun is leverage. People complain bitterly about the heavy DA trigger in the Walther PP series. The reason is that in order to get the trigger in that small a package, the leverage available to operate the hammer in DA is limited, and thus, a heavy DA trigger pull.
Another problem is that with a DA/SA trigger, you need a manual safety, which begins to limit how small the gun can be.
A final problem is design complication. When you add a DA/SA trigger unit and a manual safety things get complicated and reliability tends to drop.
In short, the Kahr is what it is. It's at the top of that class of these guns and was the pioneer in DA-only micro autos in 9mm and .40 caliber.
The Kahr was intended to be a full caliber auto, as small as possible, as safe to carry as a DA revolver, and offering the simplest possible operation with no complications.
It was intended to be a true "pull-point-shoot" gun for close range defense. Trying to change that would diminish the design and likely wouldn't sell to the intended audience.
There are plenty of those designs around and Kahr would be just another gun in that class.
Kahr was one of, if not the first of, the DA-only Micro guns and it's at the top of the class.
One problem with getting a DA/SA trigger in that small a gun is leverage. People complain bitterly about the heavy DA trigger in the Walther PP series. The reason is that in order to get the trigger in that small a package, the leverage available to operate the hammer in DA is limited, and thus, a heavy DA trigger pull.
Another problem is that with a DA/SA trigger, you need a manual safety, which begins to limit how small the gun can be.
A final problem is design complication. When you add a DA/SA trigger unit and a manual safety things get complicated and reliability tends to drop.
In short, the Kahr is what it is. It's at the top of that class of these guns and was the pioneer in DA-only micro autos in 9mm and .40 caliber.
The Kahr was intended to be a full caliber auto, as small as possible, as safe to carry as a DA revolver, and offering the simplest possible operation with no complications.
It was intended to be a true "pull-point-shoot" gun for close range defense. Trying to change that would diminish the design and likely wouldn't sell to the intended audience.
8/15/2011 1:57:14 PM
Originally Posted By dfariswheel:
DA/SA just isn't Kahr's "thing".
There are plenty of those designs around and Kahr would be just another gun in that class.
Kahr was one of, if not the first of, the DA-only Micro guns and it's at the top of the class.
One problem with getting a DA/SA trigger in that small a gun is leverage. People complain bitterly about the heavy DA trigger in the Walther PP series. The reason is that in order to get the trigger in that small a package, the leverage available to operate the hammer in DA is limited, and thus, a heavy DA trigger pull.
Another problem is that with a DA/SA trigger, you need a manual safety, which begins to limit how small the gun can be.
A final problem is design complication. When you add a DA/SA trigger unit and a manual safety things get complicated and reliability tends to drop.
In short, the Kahr is what it is. It's at the top of that class of these guns and was the pioneer in DA-only micro autos in 9mm and .40 caliber.
The Kahr was intended to be a full caliber auto, as small as possible, as safe to carry as a DA revolver, and offering the simplest possible operation with no complications.
It was intended to be a true "pull-point-shoot" gun for close range defense. Trying to change that would diminish the design and likely wouldn't sell to the intended audience.
DA/SA just isn't Kahr's "thing".
There are plenty of those designs around and Kahr would be just another gun in that class.
Kahr was one of, if not the first of, the DA-only Micro guns and it's at the top of the class.
One problem with getting a DA/SA trigger in that small a gun is leverage. People complain bitterly about the heavy DA trigger in the Walther PP series. The reason is that in order to get the trigger in that small a package, the leverage available to operate the hammer in DA is limited, and thus, a heavy DA trigger pull.
Another problem is that with a DA/SA trigger, you need a manual safety, which begins to limit how small the gun can be.
A final problem is design complication. When you add a DA/SA trigger unit and a manual safety things get complicated and reliability tends to drop.
In short, the Kahr is what it is. It's at the top of that class of these guns and was the pioneer in DA-only micro autos in 9mm and .40 caliber.
The Kahr was intended to be a full caliber auto, as small as possible, as safe to carry as a DA revolver, and offering the simplest possible operation with no complications.
It was intended to be a true "pull-point-shoot" gun for close range defense. Trying to change that would diminish the design and likely wouldn't sell to the intended audience.
Thanks for the info! I guess that pretty much explains it. Wondering how badly ballistic performance would suffer if any of the existing @ 3" bbl. DA/SA pistols had their barrels and overall length shortened by half inch to an inch to get it close to the 5.3" length of a Kahr micro.
Personally, I don't mind a heavy DA first pull as a safety precaution (with a decocker), rather than have to manipulate a safety in a stress situation. K.I.S.S.: pull the trigger, gun goes bang.
So we'll see if I can get used to the Kahr for concealed carry –– I like the size, but so far not so crazy about the trigger.
8/15/2011 5:15:38 PM
Shoot the Kahr like it's a double action revolver.
You have to learn how to shoot a DA revolver. Once learned you can do some excellently accurate shooting.
You have to learn how to shoot a DA revolver. Once learned you can do some excellently accurate shooting.
8/27/2011 12:37:37 AM
Originally Posted By dfariswheel:
DA/SA just isn't Kahr's "thing".
There are plenty of those designs around and Kahr would be just another gun in that class.
Kahr was one of, if not the first of, the DA-only Micro guns and it's at the top of the class.
One problem with getting a DA/SA trigger in that small a gun is leverage. People complain bitterly about the heavy DA trigger in the Walther PP series. The reason is that in order to get the trigger in that small a package, the leverage available to operate the hammer in DA is limited, and thus, a heavy DA trigger pull.
Another problem is that with a DA/SA trigger, you need a manual safety, which begins to limit how small the gun can be.
A final problem is design complication. When you add a DA/SA trigger unit and a manual safety things get complicated and reliability tends to drop.
In short, the Kahr is what it is. It's at the top of that class of these guns and was the pioneer in DA-only micro autos in 9mm and .40 caliber.
The Kahr was intended to be a full caliber auto, as small as possible, as safe to carry as a DA revolver, and offering the simplest possible operation with no complications.
It was intended to be a true "pull-point-shoot" gun for close range defense. Trying to change that would diminish the design and likely wouldn't sell to the intended audience.
DA/SA just isn't Kahr's "thing".
There are plenty of those designs around and Kahr would be just another gun in that class.
Kahr was one of, if not the first of, the DA-only Micro guns and it's at the top of the class.
One problem with getting a DA/SA trigger in that small a gun is leverage. People complain bitterly about the heavy DA trigger in the Walther PP series. The reason is that in order to get the trigger in that small a package, the leverage available to operate the hammer in DA is limited, and thus, a heavy DA trigger pull.
Another problem is that with a DA/SA trigger, you need a manual safety, which begins to limit how small the gun can be.
A final problem is design complication. When you add a DA/SA trigger unit and a manual safety things get complicated and reliability tends to drop.
In short, the Kahr is what it is. It's at the top of that class of these guns and was the pioneer in DA-only micro autos in 9mm and .40 caliber.
The Kahr was intended to be a full caliber auto, as small as possible, as safe to carry as a DA revolver, and offering the simplest possible operation with no complications.
It was intended to be a true "pull-point-shoot" gun for close range defense. Trying to change that would diminish the design and likely wouldn't sell to the intended audience.
I know you're a wheel gunner at heart. I've been the student of your post on other boards. I to love the Kahr and have two now. I have a PM9 and a P380. I carry the PM9 95% of the time. I can shoot it just as well as my DA Colts. I agree with your mind set. If I was to go to war in the morning. My main service gun would be a XDm. I'd carry the PM9 as a back up. They have different purposes. You don't grab a sledge hammer to hammer in a finishing nail.
