Archived Posts » 59,609,787
PF9 vs P11
8/9/2010 3:09:21 PM
I am looking to buy a kel tec 9mm for a backup/ CW. I have never handled either model and none of the stores around me have any in stock. I see that Buds has both listed in stock. I don't know which to get. What are the differences other than width of grip for double vs single stack mag? Are the triggers the same? Do you think I could pocket a P11? One reason I am thinking of the P11 is because I want a sub 2000 one day and I can get it with a P11 grip however I want something I can carry everywhere easily.
8/9/2010 4:55:11 PM
OK, these are my thoughts & opinions, take them as you will.
1st, the PF-9 has a better trigger, but is only 7 rds. With a little work and training, the P11 trigger gets much better, and it can pack 12 rds (made by Mec-Gar, sold by Kel-Tec) in a standard length (same as the 10rd that comes with it) magazine.
2nd The P11 is, as you said, is thicker and a hair longer as well. For me the P11 is much more comfortable in my hand and I can hit with it better than the PF-9. The recoil is a little harsh on both, they are after all, both built small & light weight. I'm a big guy (6'4", 320) and my P11 disappears on my person or in a pocket quite easily, if you are of an average stature, you still shouldn't have much trouble with the P11. If you are very small framed, the PF-9 would be distinctly easier to carry concealed.
I'm not aware of a Sub2k that uses a P11 grip/mag combo unless you are talking about what is commonly referred to as the S&W grip on the Sub2k. If that's the case you will find that Mec-Gar mags made for some models of the S&W semi-autos (up to 17 rds) will fit and function in the P11 or the Sub2K, easily. My Sub2K .40 uses Glock mags & I really like the 31rd mags I have for it. It chews through them like a hungry dawg on a hot day.
For me, & my purposes, the P11 is the choice.
The PF-9 is not at all bad, but lacks capacity, even though it is smaller & easier to conceal, and has a better trigger out of the box, it also has no other compatibilities with other arms for multiple uses.
1st, the PF-9 has a better trigger, but is only 7 rds. With a little work and training, the P11 trigger gets much better, and it can pack 12 rds (made by Mec-Gar, sold by Kel-Tec) in a standard length (same as the 10rd that comes with it) magazine.
2nd The P11 is, as you said, is thicker and a hair longer as well. For me the P11 is much more comfortable in my hand and I can hit with it better than the PF-9. The recoil is a little harsh on both, they are after all, both built small & light weight. I'm a big guy (6'4", 320) and my P11 disappears on my person or in a pocket quite easily, if you are of an average stature, you still shouldn't have much trouble with the P11. If you are very small framed, the PF-9 would be distinctly easier to carry concealed.
I'm not aware of a Sub2k that uses a P11 grip/mag combo unless you are talking about what is commonly referred to as the S&W grip on the Sub2k. If that's the case you will find that Mec-Gar mags made for some models of the S&W semi-autos (up to 17 rds) will fit and function in the P11 or the Sub2K, easily. My Sub2K .40 uses Glock mags & I really like the 31rd mags I have for it. It chews through them like a hungry dawg on a hot day.
For me, & my purposes, the P11 is the choice.
The PF-9 is not at all bad, but lacks capacity, even though it is smaller & easier to conceal, and has a better trigger out of the box, it also has no other compatibilities with other arms for multiple uses.
8/10/2010 4:48:29 AM
I agree with the post above, although I chose the PF-9 because I wanted a better concealment, than more rounds. As a back-up meaning not your primary I would pick the PF-9. I also have a P3AT, that is even smaller than a PF-9. Summer time around here when it is 90+ with 90% humidity it is hard to conceal a anything large.
8/10/2010 1:33:36 PM
Originally Posted By RogueSpear2023:
I agree with the post above, although I chose the PF-9 because I wanted a better concealment, than more rounds. As a back-up meaning not your primary I would pick the PF-9. I also have a P3AT, that is even smaller than a PF-9. Summer time around here when it is 90+ with 90% humidity it is hard to conceal a anything large.
I agree with the post above, although I chose the PF-9 because I wanted a better concealment, than more rounds. As a back-up meaning not your primary I would pick the PF-9. I also have a P3AT, that is even smaller than a PF-9. Summer time around here when it is 90+ with 90% humidity it is hard to conceal a anything large.
I know what you mean. Try summer in Louisiana, or fall & spring for that matter. LOL
8/11/2010 12:38:13 AM
I'm not a big dude and was used to my 1911's 7 round mag so I chose the PF9. I liked the trigger much better and then there was the "Bottom line would you on a p11" thread where a bunch of people were saying how the regret getting one..
8/11/2010 11:37:34 AM
Originally Posted By D_CRISIS:
I'm not a big dude and was used to my 1911's 7 round mag so I chose the PF9. I liked the trigger much better and then there was the "Bottom line would you on a p11" thread where a bunch of people were saying how the regret getting one..
I'm not a big dude and was used to my 1911's 7 round mag so I chose the PF9. I liked the trigger much better and then there was the "Bottom line would you on a p11" thread where a bunch of people were saying how the regret getting one..
And some people would bitch about a free meal when they were starving to death. It's the internet, most of those people have probably never even seen or touched a P11 in real life, they only regurgitate what they've read from other "keyboard commandos". I offer real world, every day carry advice, and I'm telling you, if you get a P11, clean it up and get it running right, and PRACTICE with it, you would never regret it.
If you think buying a pistol and sticking in your pocket means you're armed then you have another think coming. I am NOT directing this against you, personally, but against the prevailing attitude shown by the afore mentioned "keyboard commandos". Please don't take my comments personnaly.
8/11/2010 7:11:06 PM
I got the PF-9 because, as a back up gun, I did not feel I needed max capacity... 8 rounds is ok with me. HOWEVER, after the VERY FIRST range trip, I had to send mine back. Out of about 35 rounds, using Winchester and Federal 115gr FMJ, I had THREE case ruptures. In fact, of the three times it happened, the extractor blew out as well. I posted on here last week about it with pics.
Talked to Kel-Tec today, they just got my pistol this past Friday, and was told 4 to 6 weeks. Well, I was less than pleased and talked with "Flo" and she said as soon as a parkerized slide comes in (should be any day now), they are sending me a new slide and barrel. No official word as to why the cases ruptured.
I'm just not too sure I made the right purchasing decision... I really liked the PF-9, and I'm still trying to like it. BUT... if I have ANY more isues such as FTF, FTE, or light primer strikes, I'll NEVER have enough confidence to carry it on duty.
Two things about Kel-Tec causes me to be concerned... 1) apparently they have such a back-log of repairs, it takes 6 to 8 weeks for them to get a work order completed and 2) they are very nice about returns. Not sure that makes for a good combination. I would rather have shitty CS and hardly ever need it than deal with NICE people often
Talked to Kel-Tec today, they just got my pistol this past Friday, and was told 4 to 6 weeks. Well, I was less than pleased and talked with "Flo" and she said as soon as a parkerized slide comes in (should be any day now), they are sending me a new slide and barrel. No official word as to why the cases ruptured.
I'm just not too sure I made the right purchasing decision... I really liked the PF-9, and I'm still trying to like it. BUT... if I have ANY more isues such as FTF, FTE, or light primer strikes, I'll NEVER have enough confidence to carry it on duty.
Two things about Kel-Tec causes me to be concerned... 1) apparently they have such a back-log of repairs, it takes 6 to 8 weeks for them to get a work order completed and 2) they are very nice about returns. Not sure that makes for a good combination. I would rather have shitty CS and hardly ever need it than deal with NICE people often
8/12/2010 3:00:34 PM
I love my PF9 I have over 2000 rds with no issue I shoot 115 grain PMC. Trigger takes time so practice, Also the round count is not a big thing to me as well. Try both if you can. Good Luck and be safe
8/12/2010 5:05:10 PM
Originally Posted By Wyldman:
And some people would bitch about a free meal when they were starving to death. It's the internet, most of those people have probably never even seen or touched a P11 in real life, they only regurgitate what they've read from other "keyboard commandos". I offer real world, every day carry advice, and I'm telling you, if you get a P11, clean it up and get it running right, and PRACTICE with it, you would never regret it.
If you think buying a pistol and sticking in your pocket means you're armed then you have another think coming. I am NOT directing this against you, personally, but against the prevailing attitude shown by the afore mentioned "keyboard commandos". Please don't take my comments personnaly.
Originally Posted By D_CRISIS:
I'm not a big dude and was used to my 1911's 7 round mag so I chose the PF9. I liked the trigger much better and then there was the "Bottom line would you on a p11" thread where a bunch of people were saying how the regret getting one..
I'm not a big dude and was used to my 1911's 7 round mag so I chose the PF9. I liked the trigger much better and then there was the "Bottom line would you on a p11" thread where a bunch of people were saying how the regret getting one..
And some people would bitch about a free meal when they were starving to death. It's the internet, most of those people have probably never even seen or touched a P11 in real life, they only regurgitate what they've read from other "keyboard commandos". I offer real world, every day carry advice, and I'm telling you, if you get a P11, clean it up and get it running right, and PRACTICE with it, you would never regret it.
If you think buying a pistol and sticking in your pocket means you're armed then you have another think coming. I am NOT directing this against you, personally, but against the prevailing attitude shown by the afore mentioned "keyboard commandos". Please don't take my comments personnaly.
When I handled the both of them is when I choose the PF-9. If i liked the p11 I would have gotten it despite the threads and whatever. no offense taken dude. it has been flawless and I don't regret my choice.
8/14/2010 10:17:19 AM
I did get a chance to at least hold both in my hand now. I liked the feel of the p11 better, The backstrap portion of the pf9 grip seemed so sharply rounded and slim that I thought it would really not be pleasant to shoot enough to be comfortable with, the p11 felt fine. I didn't get a chance to try the triggers But I have seen alot online about how to make the p11s better. I also still like the idea of larger mags with grip extensions. Right now this purchase is going to be my only personally owned handgun and may have to serve as more than just a CC or backup. Right now I am looking for a p11 in OD to purchase.
8/14/2010 9:48:41 PM
I hated my P-11 for a long time, it was bad out of the box and I just threw it in the back of the closet. A few years later, I contacted Kel-Tec and sent it to them. They repaired it and it has been running great since. The more I shoot it, the more I like it. I use it as my truck gun or in my back pocket.
Reading these PF9 threads have now got me looking to pick one up one day....they sound interesting and I may like the smaller size.
Reading these PF9 threads have now got me looking to pick one up one day....they sound interesting and I may like the smaller size.
8/15/2010 11:14:16 AM
Originally Posted By D_CRISIS:
When I handled the both of them is when I choose the PF-9. If i liked the p11 I would have gotten it despite the threads and whatever. no offense taken dude. it has been flawless and I don't regret my choice.
Originally Posted By Wyldman:
And some people would bitch about a free meal when they were starving to death. It's the internet, most of those people have probably never even seen or touched a P11 in real life, they only regurgitate what they've read from other "keyboard commandos". I offer real world, every day carry advice, and I'm telling you, if you get a P11, clean it up and get it running right, and PRACTICE with it, you would never regret it.
If you think buying a pistol and sticking in your pocket means you're armed then you have another think coming. I am NOT directing this against you, personally, but against the prevailing attitude shown by the afore mentioned "keyboard commandos". Please don't take my comments personnaly.
Originally Posted By D_CRISIS:
I'm not a big dude and was used to my 1911's 7 round mag so I chose the PF9. I liked the trigger much better and then there was the "Bottom line would you on a p11" thread where a bunch of people were saying how the regret getting one..
I'm not a big dude and was used to my 1911's 7 round mag so I chose the PF9. I liked the trigger much better and then there was the "Bottom line would you on a p11" thread where a bunch of people were saying how the regret getting one..
And some people would bitch about a free meal when they were starving to death. It's the internet, most of those people have probably never even seen or touched a P11 in real life, they only regurgitate what they've read from other "keyboard commandos". I offer real world, every day carry advice, and I'm telling you, if you get a P11, clean it up and get it running right, and PRACTICE with it, you would never regret it.
If you think buying a pistol and sticking in your pocket means you're armed then you have another think coming. I am NOT directing this against you, personally, but against the prevailing attitude shown by the afore mentioned "keyboard commandos". Please don't take my comments personnaly.
When I handled the both of them is when I choose the PF-9. If i liked the p11 I would have gotten it despite the threads and whatever. no offense taken dude. it has been flawless and I don't regret my choice.
Yeah I was in the shop with him...
And if he had tried to buy it without trying the P11 first, as long as a myriad of other pistols he had been trying and retrying and that I had been researching for months.....I would have stopped him.
Unless it's issued or borrowed people gotta find what fits him. And I agree the P11, as well as TONS of other pistols, could be made to put in work. I knew enough to make it put in work...but first...came the fit.
9/14/2010 7:36:34 PM
I have over 2,000 rounds through my p11. Out of the box, not that enjoyable. After a good fluff and buff of all the parts, file down the front sight, and trigger mods I am very happy with the weapon for what it is. It is a EDC. It can be bought cheap and to make it a well performing gun you will want to do some work to it. NutnFancy has a good analysis of the p11 on YouTube.
9/20/2010 6:03:03 PM
you can also get 30 round s&w mags for the P11... 
9/20/2010 7:44:15 PM
I looked at the P11 before buying my PF-9. I just liked the PF-9 better.
The thing is that I had a ton of problems with it, I was having a FTE every other shot, the screw that hold the extractor and spring in worked it way out and the at one point worked its way out so far that the firing pin and spring flew out. But this thing was so easy to conceal so light and was so surprisingly accurate that I new I wanted it for my summer EDC bug, "out to the super-mart" gun. So I did what was necessary, I mirror polished every operating surface, Lock-tit the extractor/ spring screw, Polished out the chamber, and worked up a reload (yea I know its a bad idea) that runs 98% in the gun.
Before any one brings it up I am well aware that Kel-Tec has wonderful customer service and they would have bent over backwards to fix the damn thing but I most likely would have had to send it back 5-6 time to get it the way it should be. I'm not willing to wait 4-5 weeks a return trip just to get it back and find out that something else was wrong, I'll just fix it myself. It was fun, It works now, If you get one try and keep in mind that your most likely going to have to invest in time, or if your a DIYer like me your going to put in some work.
But then again I've heard a lot of people say that theirs worked 100% right out of the box. Its just that I've never met one of these people, or seen it done. As always YMMV.
Johnny
The thing is that I had a ton of problems with it, I was having a FTE every other shot, the screw that hold the extractor and spring in worked it way out and the at one point worked its way out so far that the firing pin and spring flew out. But this thing was so easy to conceal so light and was so surprisingly accurate that I new I wanted it for my summer EDC bug, "out to the super-mart" gun. So I did what was necessary, I mirror polished every operating surface, Lock-tit the extractor/ spring screw, Polished out the chamber, and worked up a reload (yea I know its a bad idea) that runs 98% in the gun.
Before any one brings it up I am well aware that Kel-Tec has wonderful customer service and they would have bent over backwards to fix the damn thing but I most likely would have had to send it back 5-6 time to get it the way it should be. I'm not willing to wait 4-5 weeks a return trip just to get it back and find out that something else was wrong, I'll just fix it myself. It was fun, It works now, If you get one try and keep in mind that your most likely going to have to invest in time, or if your a DIYer like me your going to put in some work.
But then again I've heard a lot of people say that theirs worked 100% right out of the box. Its just that I've never met one of these people, or seen it done. As always YMMV.
Johnny
9/22/2010 12:01:54 PM
I had the P11 for a short time, I bought it used for $200...
Mine had a tight chamber and sometimes the brass would get stuck in there.
I used it as a truck gun until it got stolen...
When I replaced it I went for the PF9, it's a much better carry gun IMO.
I was a better shot with the P11, but I think the PF9 is a better carry gun due to weight and thickness.
Mine had a tight chamber and sometimes the brass would get stuck in there.
I used it as a truck gun until it got stolen...
When I replaced it I went for the PF9, it's a much better carry gun IMO.
I was a better shot with the P11, but I think the PF9 is a better carry gun due to weight and thickness.
9/22/2010 12:27:16 PM
Originally Posted By billy8221969:
I know what you mean. Try summer in Louisiana, or fall & spring for that matter. LOL
Originally Posted By RogueSpear2023:
I agree with the post above, although I chose the PF-9 because I wanted a better concealment, than more rounds. As a back-up meaning not your primary I would pick the PF-9. I also have a P3AT, that is even smaller than a PF-9. Summer time around here when it is 90+ with 90% humidity it is hard to conceal a anything large.
I agree with the post above, although I chose the PF-9 because I wanted a better concealment, than more rounds. As a back-up meaning not your primary I would pick the PF-9. I also have a P3AT, that is even smaller than a PF-9. Summer time around here when it is 90+ with 90% humidity it is hard to conceal a anything large.
I know what you mean. Try summer in Louisiana, or fall & spring for that matter. LOL
From a concealability standpoint, there is no difference between the P11 and the PF-9. Whenever people compare the two, they almost always focus on the size difference, but the 1/8" difference in width translates to zip, zilch, nada difference when it comes to hiding the gun. The real difference between the two is the trigger and capacity. I've had both, and ended up selling the PF-9 because the added capacity of the P11 outweigh the better trigger of the PF-9. Admittedly, the P11 trigger is horrible, but it can be made... well, not better, but less horrible
, and the extra width translates to a much more comfortable grip that goes a long way to spreading the recoil over a larger area of your hand, making the P11 the easier gun to shoot.
As far as carrying in Louisiana heat, I carry a Para P12 with no problems, and on the rare occasions that I need to downsize, I switch to the P11 or P3AT. I know a lot of people like the PF-9, but I honestly can't think of a single situation where it has any real advantages to the P11.
ETA: BTW, the PF-9 is actually slightly longer than the P11.
