S&W 340 PD - Once and for all, what to feed it?

I really like my super lightweight 340 PD and have tricked it out with an APEX spring kit, put a plug where the lock used to be, and put Crimson Trace grips on it, too. Like every owner of this pistol I imagine, I tried a few rounds of .357 in it just to see what it would be like. I tried to describe it as being like driving around taking mailboxes off posts, but using your palm instead of a baseball bat.

I have read multiple answers to this question and would like to know once and for all: in an extremely lightweight and short-barreled revolver like this, is it worth it to use .357 or is any advantage lost in the blast and recoil and shortness of the barrel? I currently use +P ammunition but would step it up (reluctantly) if there was any real benefit.

(photo from before removal of lock and addition of CT grips)

Corbon 110 gr. DPX .38 Special

Nice pieces

I have a 340PD and like it a lot (I also have the CT grips).

If I had the $$ I would go with the Corbon round that the poster above me suggested.

But I already boought 1000 rds. of .38 special +P gold dots, and I am happy enough with them.

I like to practice with the rounds that I carry, and the gold dots were inexpensive enough to do that, and supposedly their performance in the short barrel is sufficient to get the job done.

stick with Gold Dot 135 +P, corbon 110 +P, Win ranger bonded 130 +P

lesss recoil faster on target


to much muzzle blast using full power 357 loads in a snub.

There is a definite ballistic advantage to going to .357, even with the short barrel. IIRC, according to the info at the Ballistics by the Inch website, .38+P out of a snubbie will be going about 850 FPS, while .357 will be going about 1100 FPS, maybe a little more, maybe a little less, but close. The problem comes with actually being able to SHOOT the gun with .357.

While I don't have and have never shot any of the lightweight .357 snubbies, I do have an early .357 S&W M649 Bodyguard. Recoil with .357 out of this steel framed snubbie is bad enough that I have to regrip the gun after every shot, due to it twisting and torquing in my hand. Recoil is heavy, but not too bad. Having shot that, I can only imagine what the recoil out of one of the Scandium framed snubbies is like. I've heard it described as smacking your hand with a baseball bat, repeatedly.

Only you can decide if .357 is worth it for you. Myself, while I have snubbies chambered for .357 (the mentioned M649 and an SP101), follow up shot times and recoil management mean that I only carried .38+P in them. They aren't bad with .357, especially the SP101, but they are MUCH easier and quicker to shoot with .38+P. It all comes down to, do you think that the additional velocity, muzzle blast, muzzle flash and recoil are necessary for your needs?

Bub75

There is a benefit, but it's largely canceled out by muzzle blast, extreme recoil, etc. The 340PD with full-house 357 loads is one of the nastiest handguns I've ever shot.

I keep my snubby loaded with three rounds of 38+P and two rounds of 357 gold dots. I figure if I really need those last two shots, I'm in deep doo-doo.

I've read of some iffy variations in velocity of the 110gr corbon load in some pistols - it was theorized that perhaps the cylinder gap distance makes a big difference with this round because the bullet is shorter and 'bridges the gap' so to speak for a shorter period of time. I've seen multiple reports of sub standard velocity from these rounds; i used to carry them but no longer do (i don't have a chronograph to double check that i am getting advertised speeds). I really like the doubletap +P 125gr gold dot loading. It's controllable but a noticeable step up in power from the 135gr gold dot load from speer.

Shorter bullet? If anything the 110 grain DPX loaded by Corbon would be LONG for a 110 grain bullet. You see, there is no lead in the all copper bullet. Copper is lighter than lead, so the bullet must be longer to make the 110 grain weight.

Seeing as how Speer specifically designed and developed the 135 grain bullet for snubnosed revolvers, I would go with that over anything made by doubletap. Step up in power or not, the 135 grain bullet has proven to expand AND penetrate to the required depths. Can you say the same about your load by doubletap?

Federal NyClad are what I carry in my chief. I think they've started making these again, not sure.

Speer did develop the 135gr round for snubbies - as a low recoil round that still performs reasonably. I'm not so recoil sensitive that i can't handle a 125gr @ >1050fps, so i prefer to rely on that. If you like the reduced recoil round, go for it. Speer makes gold dots that do fine @ >1000fps too.

I have a 340PD and have fired .357's otu of it without making my hand bleed. It's not all that severe, but I also changed the grip and have rubber covering the backstrap. I don't think .357 really offers any practical advantage in a barrel this short. I'd go with Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel 135gr +P.

Like I said, i've just read of the reports from people with chronographs - i've seen 3 separate reports of people saying they have a particular revolver that shoots the 110gr dpx rounds much slower than some of their other guns. One fellow even contacted S&W after measuring his cylinder gap and finding it to be larger than the guns that shot the DPX rounds at advertised speeds - but was told that the cylinder gap, while much larger, was still within spec. I'm not saying that what is theorized to be the reason for the inconsistency is definetely the cylinder gap, but when multiple people chrono rounds and find that some guns shoot that load slower than others, i don't ignore it. Since i don't own a chronograph nor the tools to check the cylinder gap, I opted out of the 110gr corbon route.

Just so you know, the doubletap load that I referred to is loaded using a Speer gold dot bullet that has a long documented history of performing at the velocity that doubletap drives it at. It's important to realise that speer makes bullets that do their job from all the way down @ 850fps (135gr load...low power, low recoil), all the way up to 1400fps - the bullet they load for their 357 magnum defensive round.

Saying that the 135gr load is better than these bullets because it's "made just for snub nose pistols" is ignorant at best.Speer developed the 135gr bullet for snub nosed pistols as a low recoil alternative to their already tried and proven bullet designs that do just fine at over 1000fps. The 135gr bullet does perform adequately, but their 125gr @ 1100fps performs as well, or better in some cases. If you can't handle the added energy from a double tap (or buffalo bore, etc.) , loading, then by all means, continue to carry the low recoil 135gr load; just don't claim that it's somehow superior to a load with documented and widely known performance just because it's 'made for snub nose pistols'. I CAN say that the doubletap load I carry will perform as expected - just like I could say that if they loaded a cartridge with the 135gr bullet @ 850-900fps. I'd just rather have the extra penetration and expansion, since the recoil for the doubletap 38+P is quite easy to manage. We are after all talking about a gun that is chambered in .357 magnum. It is not unreasonable to fire a hot 38+P from it regularly, and they are easy to control.

Here's the thread where a fellow chronoed the 110's - only ~920fps from his 442 S&W.

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-300103.html

Headless 1916,

Honestly, I could give a rats backside what a chronograph says. If the bullet performs the way it should, both in penetration and expansion, then who cares what the numbers are? I also doubt that the 135 grain load was supposedly "reduced recoil" as the gun still hammers my hand pretty hard (but not enough to make it bleed). (If it is reduced recoil, why is it loaded to +P?) It is more of a stinging sensation than real pain. Sort of like shooting my 386 with 125 jhp 357s. Of course this could be the fault of the stroke I had. Now the 357s ARE a reduced load. The 135 grain bullet comes out about 1000 fps of the 2" barrel in a .357 loading. but I fear that particular bullet may be overdriven at that velocity.

I usually test in water (5 gallon bladders- 12"x12"x12") and if a bullet makes it to the second bladder and expands through four layers of denim, then it's usually good enough for me. I've never tested the .38 DPX round, but I have tested it in other calibers, like 9mm and .40 S&W. Even out of my Kahr CW9 (3.5" barrel) it gives impressive expansion and penetration to the second jug. Now this is FAR from being scientific, but it is nice to know what the bullet will do. More so than numbers from a chronograph and muzzle energy figures. Don't get me wrong, the chronograph does have it's place in ballistics, but comparing the velocities of various pistol calibers is a lot like comparing the senority of second lieutenants.

Speer specifically designed their short barrel bullets to perform a the velocities encountered when using pistols like the S&W 340. I e-mailed them a few years ago and that was their answer. No difference in powder or load, just a different engineering solution for the bullet due to the lack of velocity caused by short barrels. I don't know what you base your claims around, but unless you're set up to do some pretty deep ballistic research I'm going to put my trust in a major ammunition manufacturer and not the wild ass claims of someone on the internet.

Honestly dude, your claims of someone 'needing' a low recoil load because they can't deal with the manly man load you've decided will get the job done smacks error net hype.

Oh yea, I almost forgot, the Speer Short Barrel 135gr round is a .357 Magnum load, so WTF are you ranting at?

I don't think you are understanding the situation - if you want to shoot a 135gr @ 860fps, that's fine, but speer also developed their 124gr gold dot that performs excellently @ 1100fps. If you want to claim that for some fucked up reason a speer gold dot 124gr @ 1100fps is fine out of a 9mm semiauto but somehow inferior if the same bullet is fired at the same speed from a snub nosed revolver, then you are obviously delusional and i can't discuss this with you. The reality is, the 135gr gold dot does exactly what it's designed to do @ 860fps - and the 124gr gold dot does as it's designed to do at 1100fps. Carry whichever makes you feel better. I like the added energy and better terminal ballistics of the 124gr @ 1100+fps. If you like the reduced recoil and lower velocity of the 135gr, have fun with that. Just don't claim that the 124gr loading is somehow not working because it's coming from a snub nosed revolver; you sound like an idiot.

Also, the 135gr is sold in a 38+P loading; if you bothered to spend half a second googling you'd have seen that, but it's obvious you just want to ramble on about what someone told you in an e-mail years ago without even understanding the topic at hand rather than actually learn something.

I've seen many regulated tests with actual ballistic gelatin for both the 135gr gold dot from a 38+P loading and the 124 gold dot @ 1100+ FPS. The gold dot 124gr @ 1100fps penetrates farther. This isn't about shooting at water jugs, it's about looking at the actual penetration of the bullet and gauging which one performs better. I'm not volunteering to get shot by either one, but claiming that the 135gr is somehow superior just because it's being fired from a snub, even though it's been documented as performing worse than the 124gr @ 1100+fps is just ridiculous. I'm not saying the 135gr loading is a 'bad load', it's just important that people understand that it's not some kind of magical bullet; it's a 135gr @ 860fps that penetrates adequately and expands consistently at that speed. The 124gr @ 1100+fps is a 124gr bullet that penetrates farther than the 135gr does @ 860fps, and still expands consistently at THAT speed. Carry whatever you're comfortable with. Don't start saying the 135gr is the 'only load to carry' for a snub just because it was designed specifically for them. It's like arguing that if you could fire a 125grgold dot @ 1425fps (357 magnum hot loaded) instead of your 124gr +P in your 9mm, you should still carry the 124gr just because it was designed for your 9mm!! Ridiculous. If the other load performs better and you are not bothered by the recoil, carry the load that performs better. Or, you could just parrot things about 'designed for snub nose pistols' about and don't bother to actually look at the performance of the rounds involved in the comparison. About on par for GD. Shouldn't be the case here.

I think you're the one who missed the point here. The OP asked "S&W 340 PD - Once and for all, what to feed it?" The fact that someone cross loads 9mm bullets for .38\.357 revolvers misses the point.. Anyway, Speer makes both .357 Magnum and 38+P SD loads. I'll cut to the important info:

Part #23917 SB 135gr 357 990 FPS
Part #23921 SP 135gr 38+p 860 FPS

If you're a fanboi of the Buffalo Bore or Double Tap school of SD rounds, have at it. The only thing that really makes a difference in handgun rounds is shot placement. I can tell you that I'm 100% positive that my 340 loaded with 148gr wadcutters is going to prove more effective with proper shot placement that ANY high powered short barrel double buffalo +P magnum round that misses the mark. Bottom line is all handgun rounds suck ass water when it comes to terminal ballistics, so load what you can shoot effectively, not what looks good on paper.

Shot placement is in fact the most important thing when it comes to defensive shooting, and obvious a hit in the right place is better than a miss; what you're saying has no bearing on the discussion. I can put 125gr@1100 FPS 38+P's into a nice tight group with fast follow-up shots. If you can do that with 135gr@860fps, but not with the better pentrating 125gr @ 1100fps, then i totally agree that you should just carry the 135gr loading. However, if you want to just ignore the fact that one load penetrates significantly farther than the other and chalk it up to 'all hangun rounds are lacking' (which is true), you are just giving yourself a handicap for no reason at all. Sure, all handgun rounds suck, but it's not hard to see that one round penetrates farther than the other, and there is very real value in that extra penetration; if you don't believe me, there's a guy named Jerry Dove who would like a word with you. I agree that you should never carry a more powerful round that you can't shoot over a less powerful one that you can. However, the OP has a .357 magnum, so it's reasonable to assume that a mid-range recoiling load is a good choice for them. If you want to shoot low power 38's, you don't need a .357. I didn't even suggest a full house .357 load because i don't believe they are controllable from the 340pd; after all, you can get the same 125gr round @ 1400+fps from that 340PD, but if you can't aim it and follow-up shots are incredibly slow it doesn't actually address the need. You're acting like what i'm suggesting is a barn burning uncontrollable beast, but in reality it's not hard to handle and it simply performs better than the 135gr @ 860fps. But whatever, don't get distracted by 'what looks good on paper' - i mean, who wants to actually research and understand how their bullets will perform? Lets just load 148gr wadcutters @ 500fps and call it a day, because hell, i can shoot those incredibly accurately and the recoil is nonexistant. Yeah, whatever pal. Call me a fanboi of whatever, but what i AM a fan of is a round that performs consistently and has enough energy to penetrate sufficiently in less than ideal circumstances. For me, follow up shots for the load i use are not any slower than with the 135gr load; i've tried both. If you are recoil sensitive you might not have the same results; being clear, if you can't shoot this load quickly and accurately I don't recommend it. However, if a 125gr round @ 1100fps is too hot for you, a 340PD was a massive waste of money; there are cheaper guns that'll fire 38 all day long and you don't even want a full 38+P apparently.

Paragraphs are your friend, learn to use them.

I have no issues with full power .357 out of my 340 PD. I simply don't think that there is much performance to gain out of a sub 2" barrel. If you have some documented evidence of the success or failure of the Speer, Buffalo Bore, or Double Tap loads now would be a good time to post it instead of just continuing to insist that you load is better.

Here's some good video on the Speer GD SB load in ballistic gel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k890Rio2oBY


Here's the test data from Speer.

http://www.speer-ammo.com/products/short_brl.aspx

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